NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

Also I'm town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Maybe you're not. It's OK if you want to replace out, if not I think you're scum, because why would you first call me a cop and then vote for me at the first opportunity to bandwagon when I haven't said anything against you?

[chamber]

By "last days of health" I mean RELATIVE health because I'll never be as "healthy" as I am now ever again.

I hate to bring this stuff into a GAME but this is not the first time players are puzzled at my change in demeanor.

If it's no longer fun, then it's a waste of my time, I should be doing something that is fun instead. Like the Dead QT.

Before this post I thought the previous one was just a metaphor for this game. I'm sorry to hear you aren't doing so well. I hope it all works out.

[Porochaz]

Can you give me a few examples of where he has contributed?

Just look at his posts. His third post of the game was a contribution. I don't know what you're expecting. If you're really serious about this, maybe you could do a comparison of how much you've contributed to how much he has.

I'm not particularly pro-undo, but I'm definitely anti-this-argument.

I can't say my content has been all that great, I admit that, but I do believe that as soon as I was able I was giving reads and hopefully, now some of you have a pretty decent read on me. I don't think that with undo.

Look, I think we're not going to agree here and as I think the DGB case is a better one to pursue at the moment this is a bit fruitless. It also gives undo more time to either make more posts like his last analysis post that admittedly wasn't that bad or more time to keep playing under the radar. Which I will be happy to bring up again and again... etc.

[DrippingGoofball]

then vote for me at the first opportunity to bandwagon when I haven't said anything against you?

WTF this isn't a personal vendetta

I can't vote for you unless you "said something agaisnt me?"

And if you say "something against me" that my cue to 1-on-1 to death with you?

F that

Lynch me please

[DrippingGoofball]

Gonna take a 48 hour stress break

I'm hope I'm dead by then

I'm still town

Enjoy your mislynch

[Untrod Tripod]

holy shit DGB

uh

look I'm sorry I'm scumreading you, it really wasn't because of your personal life. Please be well

[Albert B. Rampage]

Do it, guys.

If you were town you'd read me as town.

So let me get this straight. If I'm town, I should read you as town. If you're town, you can read me as scum, vote for me without any reason, and declare everyone except one person on your bandwagon is scum.

Sounds like something scum would say, sorry.

[DrippingGoofball]

You never answered my question:

Why aren't you harassing Glork and PJ?

I voted you for the same reason they did.

I will no longer answer any of your questions. I must disengage.

I'd rather be dead than fight with you, ABR. Literally. Be. Dead.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Because Glork and PJ gave reasoning and I understand their viewpoint, while you hopped on very opportunistically. You should know more about how I play than they do as they haven't been in a game with me in 5 years. Also I had completely forgotten that we were ever locking horns before you mentioned it, so it's nothing personal. The only time I recall that we were trying to lynch each other was when we were both scum, anyway, and it now looks like you're going down and trying to drag me with you in a last-ditch distancing gambit.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Your shift between "Albert is a cop with a guilty on mathcam" to "Albert is scum" doesn't seem sincere to me at all.

[DrippingGoofball]

holy shit DGB

uh

look I'm sorry I'm scumreading you, it really wasn't because of your personal life. Please be well

Fine if you wrongly scum read me, I only brought it up because mathcam and Glork are discussing my demeanor. Nothing to do with you in particular. There IS an explanation for that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Your shift between "Albert is a cop with a guilty on mathcam" to "Albert is scum" doesn't seem sincere to me at all.

You made more posts, I agreed with PJ & Glork's reasoning.

I beg you to stop talking to me. Please leave me alone. You're voting me, tell people to vote me, but please leave me alone.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not out to get you or to cause you grief. If you're suffering right now, you need to ask the mod for a replacement or even leave the house and look for help.

The things you're saying in this thread, can and will be interpreted as "gaming", trying to play tricks, and deceiving other people because you have an agenda. You've lied many times in "game threads". We were both in games where people blamed personal problems to get away with things when they drew a role that required them to lie. So if you're sincere, I ask you to leave this game, tend to your pressing concerns, and I wish you the best of luck. If you're playing mafia to relax and you're finding yourself more tense, you're not letting anybody down by taking a real break, not saying that you need a break, asking me not to talk to you, while you're still sitting there while voting for me.

[Green Crayons]

I really don't know how to feel about DGB. I wrote up a post voting her, with a few reasons typed out, and ultimately decided not to follow through.


I'm holding off voting because I feel more comfortable with my Glork vote (it's safe and warm and right), but not I'm opposed to a DGB vote. I just want to see how the day further develops.

[MrBuddyLee]

Is there any particular reason you attributed DGB's defense of LML to my vote and why you asked me about these players? Especially since you included Shanba who is dead? It just makes me feel your being insincere with your questioning.

It appears you found DGB townish until late May. June 4th, she voted UT and now that I'm rereading your post history, it seems that may be when you stopped finding her townish. What I specifically asked you was:

A bunch of other people (Glork, CES, Shanba, chamber, Albert, etc) defended LML somewhat stridently or pushed opposing wagons.. how are you differentiating amongst all of them right now?

I asked that because I'm trying to figure out what decisions scum were making in the last week of Day One. Were they trying to protect a mafia Godfather by busing a mafia goon? Were they pushing the townKitty wagon to protect LML? Were they resigned to the top two wagons being scum and figuring out how to either finagle a nolynch or look as good as possible lynching one of their own?

I asked you specifically, because as someone who found Bookitty scummy and LML less so, you had perspective I didn't. Now that you find Bookitty townish, I would figure you'd see people's actions yesterday in a different light and I was hoping you'd get at that a bit. One way I could have seen you thinking would have been: "hmm, I found DGB scummy end-of-day yesterday because she was avoiding BOTH wagons, but now I think she was right (along with Glork and ABR) to push people off Bookitty, so maybe her vote for UT and/or KK makes more sense. Now I need to ask myself, if Bookitty is town and LML is scum, why would DGB have taken that strong a stand on Bookitty?"

Your reply to my question was:

Most notably was her complete distancing from the two big wagons of the day (LML + Bookitty) and focusing on players that clearly weren't getting lynched that day. It was time wasting really..

It seems like what you're saying is that it would have been preferable for DGB to have been on Bookitty-town than on UT-unknown on June 4th. Or if it was ok a week before deadline, it wasn't anymore on the day before deadline.

I think 13 people found LML townish, or at least less scummy than Bookitty. I'm basically asking you, now that you've been on both sides of the Bookitty fence, which of those people's behaviors have seemed consistent and townish and which have felt manipulative/scum-motivated.

And I included Shabs in the list to drive home the point that a confirmed townie was ambivalent about the Bookitty lynch and against the LML lynch. If your point is that DGB was willing to no-lynch and that makes her scummy, that's one thing, but I don't believe that's your point.

[Glork]

Maybe you're not. It's OK if you want to replace out, if not I think you're scum, because why would you first call me a cop and then vote for me at the first opportunity to bandwagon when I haven't said anything against you?

Are you actually clinging to this cop-then-vote nonsense?

It's pretty obvious what happened.
She THOUGHT you were a cop claiming a guilty result on mathcam. Logically speaking, this means she thought you were town because of that cop read.
Then she found out you weren't a cop claiming a guilty result. That took away her reason for thinking you were town.
Then, shortly after PJ and I explained why we thought you were scum (read: arbitrary/insincere "suspicions") she voted for you. Because she no longer had any role-based reason to believe you were town.



Like, just stop with the whole voting DGB because she voted you thing. The fact that you WEREN'T on her at the time means it's actually the one case of not-OMGUS we have to go on. And YOUR reaction and subsequent vote make it look very much like you were looking for an excuse to jump on an easy wagon, because the DGB vote came out of nowhere.

Even AFTER you jumped DGB you've spent time talking about who/where you think scum are, but this is so far out in left field and you're clinging so hard to the OMGUD aspect of this vote it seems quite apparent to me that your heart really isn't in it. You just want her dead, for reasons I suspect are not protown.

[Glork]

MBL, who do you actually suspect is scum right now? And for what reasons?

[Sotty7]

It appears you found DGB townish until late May. June 4th, she voted UT and now that I'm rereading your post history, it seems that may be when you stopped finding her townish.

Thank you for this post, I understand were you were driving with that point now.

You're correct that I didn't consider DGB scum until her jump onto UT. I found the vote to be pretty poor considering the state of the game at the time she moved there. Plus she didn't seem to be doing her cheerleading to get him lynched, at least not at first. Later she starts to try to get people to move there but it's pretty underwhelming. I haven't given her defense of LML much thought one way or the other at this point, because we basically agreed with each other on the tone of his last post. I found that pretty null as a result.

So at the start of today it was the above reasoning combined with a gut reaction and the fact others seemed willing to lynch her is why my vote moved there. Since then her interactions with ABR in particular have made me want to keep my vote there. Going from cop to scum like she did just feels extremely fake.

In the next few days I hope to have finished looking though day one again so hopefully I will be able to give you more insight than this right now but it's were I'm at.

DGB's most recent postings give me pause and I would agree with ABR in that she should really replace out and focus on herself and her health. I hate to hear she is sick and I wish her all the best but life comes before any of this. <3

[VitaminR]

So sorry to hear about your health problems, DGB. Hope things get better!

[Albert B. Rampage]

#1291 is extremely simplistic and naive, even. Is Glork usually this straightforward in his reasoning?

[mathcam]

Still fine with either DGB or ABR lynch, still leaning ABR. That said, I have to admit a mercy kill for DGB has some merit, and it seems wasteful to have someone replace in, get caught up, only to be on the verge of being lynched with no plausible escape route.

[MrBuddyLee]

@DGB, what's your take on Bookitty at this point? Was yesterday's lynch horserace scum vs town or scum vs scum? Reason I ask is that two of your top suspects took the race from [ Bookitty(8) LML(4) ] to [ Bookitty(8) LML(6) ]. Have you considered all that when looking at KK and Poro?

I had not. Looks good for them both, actually.

Hey DGB, sorry to interrupt your soiree with Albert. Can I assume from your post quoted here that you find Bookitty pretty solid townish at this point?

And if so, which of the non-LML-voters did you find scummiest for their reasons for staying off that wagon?

Here's kind of a summary of how it went down..

Sunday:
LoudmouthLee (3) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2, VitaminR
Bookitty (9) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, Untrod Tripod, Save the Dragons, petroleumjelly, mathcam, undo
petroleumjelly (3) -- LoudmouthLee, Bookitty, Glork

* pj

hops off Bookitty and on LML

--with talk of an SSK pairing.. had blasted LML for various things since LML's VCA
* STD

hops off Bookitty and on LML

--talked about LML's scumminess for weeks.
((Those two votes really swung the tide.. making a LML lynch a viable alternative))

Monday:
LoudmouthLee (5) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2, VitaminR, petroleumjelly, Save the Dragons
Bookitty (7) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, Untrod Tripod, mathcam, undo

* CTD jumps to Bookitty--

claimed no good read on LML

,

found Bookitty calculating, survivalistic and not scumhunting

* VitR

jumps OFF LML and onto PJ

--waffled on LML all day, never really made a case on him
*

Poro and KK jump on LML

--

Poro after 4 days of PBPA which attack LML

,

KK gives no reasons

((The VitR vote defuses the growing LML wagon a bit, the CTD vote bolsters the Bookitty wagon a bit, the Poro and KK votes really keep LML in the running))

Tuesday:
LoudmouthLee (6) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2, petroleumjelly, Save the Dragons, Porochaz, Kublai Khan
Bookitty (8) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, Untrod Tripod, mathcam, undo, CrashTextDummie

* Four straight votes on LML:

VitR makes it 8-7, Glork makes it 8-8

.

VitR's vote still with no comment/case

, Glork right after "bus" slip, "meh" but prefers it to Bookitty
* MBL makes it 9-8,

Bookitty makes it 10-8 LML

. Note, Bookitty buys "bus" slip, more importantly,

cites LML softclaim of role earlier in day

* UT

jumps from Bookitty to LML

, taking it from 10-8 LML to 11-7 LML. Seven hours before deadline, pretty much seals LML's fate.
*

CTD

hammers

, ambivalent.

* DGB was on KK/UT. She thought LML was scum til about May 28th, then thought he sounded townish. Found Seol scummy, Bookitty townish,

defended her stridently from about one week before deadline

.
* inHim was on Poro. Zorblag defended LML and was

ok with votes on Bookitty for her weird focus on PJ

.
* Albert was on CES. Found LML scum until about May 19th--then called him townish for tone in LML's 302 and 305.

Interestingly

, STD, UT and GC hopped to LML on that date to make it 6-6-6 LML-SSK-Seol before

Albert hopped off

.
* Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber stayed on Bookitty from May 16th on. Sotty found LML scummy for a while, but

always found Bookitty worse

and

ultimately wouldn't hammer LML

.

chamber wouldn't hammer LML

. CES found LML scummy, Bookitty scummier, but

wasn't around/willing to hammer LML

.
* mathcam and undo stayed on Bookitty for the last week before deadline.

mathcam waffled on LML towards end of day, was "willing to hammer LML" but wasn't around to hammer

,

undo entirely avoided registering an opinion on LML all Day One and said "my vote stays" at 2AM before deadline. Was not around/willing to hammer LML.

for the tl;dr crowd, the standout items for me are:
* VitR got off LML when it was making a comeback, and never made a case on him. Redeemed by moving vote back in time, but again without a case.
* Albert got off the LML wagon based on two LML posts May 20thish, right when the LML wagon was picking up steam. Was not around for three days before deadline.
* Sotty and CES found LML scummy but were not willing/around to hammer. mathcam was not around but claimed to be willing--he waffled on LML all day.
* undo avoided giving his opinion of LML all day, was not around/willing to hammer.

There are other actions that could be scummy interpreted in certain lights; DGB could have wanted to avoid lynching two scum or avoid lynching scumpartner and avoid being on semi-unpopular townie wagon. CTD's jump to Bookitty could be interpreted as protection of LML if you don't buy his claimed trouble reading LML. etc etc.

But I think the only unambiguous scummy LML-dealio here is undo's total avoidance of the LML situation.

[MrBuddyLee]

Reviewing this, I left out that Albert stridently defended Bookitty for days, which is a blue item until her alignment is revealed. Same with Glork.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: undo

@undo

, I see that you were V/LA for like the five days leading up to deadline, but I still find it surprising that a player as apparently observant as yourself couldn't cobble together an opinion on one of the leading wagons (LML) as it began to rival the Bookitty wagon you supported. You took one weak slap at him June 5th, saying his case on PJ was weak. Can you please explain why you were so hands-off all day regarding LML, particularly considering you found his case on another Bookitty-rivaling wagon weak?