Mini Theme 1588 - FTL: Faster Than Light - Game Over!

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/confirmed

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Mutiny against the captain!

VOTE: Albert

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*raises hand*

VOTE: Anatole

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I think the joking around over the theme is over, Albert.

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1. I have no idea how to read Venrob. He replaced out of almost every game we've had together in the first day so I just really don't know anything about his play except that it's constantly erratic and often useless. I hope to see play here that defies this tradition. I'm not on board with Hito's reasons in 71, either. But maybe it's just because I have a Venrob shaped black hole in my brain.

2. Albert still just talking theme stuff wories me a bit. Who gives a shit about the captain's log or our supposed duties on the ship? Also this meta argument about Star Wars mafia is horribly stupid. So what if Aronis played terribly in a past game? What does that have to do with his alignment here?

3. Anatole's OMGUS against myself and Espresso (unaccompanied by votes) is pathetic.

4. I'd like an actual complete sentence from Havingfitz.

5. I bite my thumb at Belisarius.

6. I don't see the thing on Jargonaut. Someone will have to explain this one to me.

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Pas, are you perhaps accusing me of seeing espresso vote for me, then going back in time to cast the world's first pre-cog OMGUS vote?

or are you just bullshitting your way through the game because you are scum

No, I'm saying that your vote was complete bullshit and you didn't even look like you thought Espresso was really scum at the time. But then you call the two people who suspect you scum and get all smug about it. It's especially nonsense since you actually sound convinced that I'm scum, but aren't voting for me, while the only actual thing that seems to be motivating you to do anything other than pick on a newbie with Espresso is his suspicion of you. The bullshit vote and the suspicions are not related. Maybe you should relate them, but that would be just another lie from you.

4. I'd like an actual complete sentence from Havingfitz.

Well...I've made a ~serious vote on Espressojet with reason and I've indicated I didn't get any of the 'hands up" business. Not dissimilar to the content provided by you prior to this post.

Otherwise it's still early days and I don't have much to say pending a re-read and more content in general from others.

Congratulations. I read your posts before typing that. Stringing links in a sentence where you pretend to be saying more than you actually are doesn't count. Try again.

Because I think you're falling into a trap here where you're assuming that scummy-players-as-town are less likely to receive scum role PM's. It's kinda what people do with newbies in non-Newbie games.

As one of those players who is considered "scummy-as-town", let me tell you that a lot more people (including you when we play together) fall into the trap of lynching based on playstyle than make the mistake you're talking about.

Yes. We can't win by petulance lynches. I`my gonna lynch scum instead.

So who do you have in mind?

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@TSO: I think I've been scum a total of 7 games on this site. You were definitely not there for 5 of them. Meanwhile, I've seen a lot of people attack each other over playstyle, including myself, in a lot of games. But I see it levied against me almost every single game. I get attacked over almost the exact same things, get a wagon built on me almost the exact same way, almost every game. It happens regardless of my alignment. I also see people let newbies off the hook. I don't like that.

@Havingfitz: Fine, whatever. Bitch and moan less. Contribute more.

Anatole seems to be trying to retroactively justify his vote with subsequent occurrences. Even if that vote could be better supported now, it doesn't have any effect on the suspicious reasons for it at the time.

@Belisarius: Preach!

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Aronis' flustered response over Albert seems genuine. I'm not inclined to join that wagon at all. TSO's point about Albert's tunneling is definitely worth keeping in mind. Hito is towning it up. And I want some of whatever Belisarius is on.

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I really can't see much from Albert that is useful. His policy lynch call is pointless, and his only other scumread being "I suppose could be scum due to the content of his posts" is incredibly weak.

And Reck is right, his treatment of Aronis and Venrob is rather inconsistent.

UNVOTE: Anatole
VOTE: Albert

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You'll probably end up there first.

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Or we could not play this silly game (as opposed to the regular game we are playing, which is srs bsns) and not lynch either of them.

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Would someone like to elaborate on Jargo? I'm not seeing it.

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Would someone like to elaborate on Jargo? I'm not seeing it.

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I think the Jargo case is actually pretty good. Especially the opportunistic scumreads. Scum like to make moves that are safe.

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I think the Jargo case is actually pretty good. Especially the opportunistic scumreads. Scum like to make moves that are safe.

Which of my scum reads do you think are opportunistic?

I'm curious why you aren't asking Anatole or TSO, since I was agreeing with them.

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Wow. I never saw that coming...

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@Juls: Go with that meta search you wanted to do. You'll find that I am often gut read as scum. Those gut reads are often wrong. Make of that what you will.

@Belis: I am really curious as to what you know about this third party. Please spill some beans.

On Albert: I definitely still see him as scum. It is an Important and Popular Fact that scum do sometimes bus. Bussing a slot as maligned and potentially useless as Venrob's is not much of a stretch.

I also definitely see the reasons to suspect Venmar. Jargo is also a possibility. Gonna reread day 1 tomorrow before voting.

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"Hey Belis share everything you know about the 3rd party so I know what you know, also my suspects are literally everyone that has been voted for today but I don't want to vote until I see where the winds are blowing, thank you all and god bless". Pasch is so SK it hurts. We should go for scum today, though.

Except that I'm not third party and am beginning to suspect that Belis is, and was already questioning him about this knowledge he has, was voting for Albert a lot yesterday, and was discussing Jargo and was contemplating voting for him yesterday as well. So, aside from the Venmar bit, all of this is stuff I had discussed already.

Now I'm gonna get back to that reread.

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Upon further consideration, I'm not really liking Jargo for scum. There are reasons to suspect her, but they are not very powerful. She's making just enough mistakes to raise some eyebrows, but not enough to really be pursuing an anti-town agenda. She should be low on anyone's scumlist.

Albert is still a strong scumread for me. The policy crap on Aronis wasted everyone's time and was essentially posting without real content. Venrob said he trusted in his captain and Albert townread Venrob. His policy attack on Aronis became a scumread between his 9th and 10th posts, apparently just by virtue of Aronis voting for him. His only other scumread was Jargo, and the Jargo case is weak. He asked Venrob to replace out, which makes sense for a scumbuddy who wants a stronger partner. His hammer of Venrob could easily be seen as a bus on a useless partner and an attempt to get some towncred. His explanation is pretty weak. Saving himself could have called for voting Venrob, but he was only at L-3. Unless the Venrob wagon completely disintegrated, he wasn't going to get lynched. Why the hell does replacement from a player who is notorious for replacing out make you scumread him? And in the same post Albert claims his read on Venrob was town and null. Plus the new Jargo vote. Bleh.

The only real argument for Venmar is his lack of participation so far. It's not a bad argument, but it's weak compared to a real case.

During my reread, I'm feeling a comfy townread on the Aronis/Juls slot. Minus points for Hearthstone, though. >_< Belis is likely town or possibly the third party that he's talking about. Bringing it up as if he's looking for a suspect could be a cover for his own actions.

@Venmar: Why exactly Espresso? Please elaborate.

Reck, TSO, and Hito all look town, but they all also know how to look town even when they aren't. Worth keeping an eye on, because they're hard to suss out as scum, but they don't seem scum. I'm just always paranoid about those sort of players. Their survival and the actual choices for night kills are perplexing.

Albert is definitely my top choice, followed by Belis for third party, and then Venmar and Jargo, but I'd vote for those two very reluctantly.

VOTE: Albert

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Won't ABR just govern himself if we try to lynch him?

He nominated Hito before the flip. Doesn't that make Hito captain now?

Also, does Jim Carrey mean you agree with me or what? It's super creepy.

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Also, does Jim Carrey mean you agree with me or what? It's super creepy.

It's weird that you think Venrob openly sheeping ABR because "He's the captain!" would be something scumbuddies would do because both myself & hito (and I think others too) all saw that as a point in the town column for ABR.

It wouldn't have stood out to me except for the reciprocation.

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Belisarius goes first, I guess.

VOTE: Belisarius

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Belisarius goes first, I guess.

VOTE: Belisarius

Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.

You have a problem with me voting my second highest suspect? Especially since I was one of the first to articulate suspicions of him in the first place?

Belisarius, I'm town. It's not too late to convince me that you're town too, and step one is to stop your tunnel vision on me.

This, Juls, is yuck yuck yuck. More defense, still nothing productive. I'd much rather lynch Albert today, but I'm willing to compromise to my second highest read. And no, it doesn't bother me that Albert is voting for him as well, since I suspect Albert as scum and Belis as third party.

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Belisarius is another shot in the dark for me, same as with Venrob. I thought Jarg was scum, maybe I'm wrong. I trust Reck.

See? More distancing from his vote? He doesn't want to be hit with the responsibility for a mislynch. His partner was lynched day 1, so he's nervous.

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Once before in a theme game about two years ago. I died night 1 (via my lover being night killed) so I didn't pay attention to it and barely remember anything about it. Albert was an arsonist, but I remember nothing about his play. I have essentially no meta information on him at all.

PEdit: I can, Espresso.

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Because I also see Belis as non-town. And there's momentum there and it would be foolish to squander that. I want them both dead. I don't care what the order is. Actually, upon second thought, Belis is not only anti-town, but is likely third party. That means eliminating him will likely remove a night kill. Unless Albert is the only scum left (iffy), his faction will remain, and we'll face 2 night kills from non-town sources even if we lynch Albert.

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Because I also see Belis as non-town. And there's momentum there and it would be foolish to squander that. I want them both dead. I don't care what the order is. Actually, upon second thought, Belis is not only anti-town, but is likely third party. That means eliminating him will likely remove a night kill. Unless Albert is the only scum left (iffy), his faction will remain, and we'll face 2 night kills from non-town sources even if we lynch Albert.

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Can somebody give me the case on Belli cause I'm just not seeing it.

I suspect Belis because he is the only one suggesting a third party killer and claims to know that there cannot be a vig. I find his certainty worrying and suspect that he is trying to protect himself as the third party killer.

Literally the only thing that would confirm the existence of an arsonist is a firefighter, so who cares?

*literally the only thing you can think of. That is not the same as the only thing that could possibly exist.

So please enlighten us.

So let's assume that's what he is claiming. Why are we lynching him again?

Because I have a very hard time believing there's an arsonist in a 13 player setup given when I already know about the setup.

What DO you know about the setup?

I did forget that Belli had the ugly post re: Venrob but overall I think Bellis reaction has been decent and anyway Esspreso's ISO 47 is giving me awful vibes; when faced w ... 6]post 518, Juls"]

So let's pretend there is a vig who would know this. Why not let a vig shoot him in the face?

You got a point there Juls. I appreciate your contribution to this game. I know you don't hear that a lot but I really think you are swell.

What if there's no vig?

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@Pasch if there is no vig...then there may be a arsonist/SK which means Belli is telling the truth. This literally works itself out. Why waste a lynch on Belli today?

Because I think Belis IS the arsonist/SK.

for(int i=0; i < UINT_MAX; ++i)
{
slap("Belisarius");
}

Show respect to Mega Man.

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Likewise

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VOTE: Albert

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I'm fairly certain that he claimed to be a VT named Jack.

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A claim that does not compel me to change my vote.

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Anyone else suspicious about Belis not having a link to the game thread in his PM? That suggests to me that it is heavily modified, perhaps even unique. One more thing that makes him look like third party.

I don't see why scum can't have a sample role PM. I don't see why the claim makes any difference, really. If Albert looks like scum, we should lynch him.

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VOTE: Perfect Chaos

I don't like basically every word you've posted since arriving here.

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Yeah but TSO towned it up too much to vote him.

TSO has fooled me in the past. I'm reluctant to ever give him a firm townread, and I didn't have one on him this time. The accusation from PC is pretty funny, though.

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Pasch I only played with you in shadows and lights and I was pretty much a non presence there but your vote on me is bullshit and you know it

Assuming this is Fish talking, I have no meta stance on you. Why do you think my vote is based on meta? I don't like the fake swagger and the careless attitude. It's not even fun drunk nonsense. It's borderline retarded nonsense. And since I don't think you're borderline retarded, there must be something fishy going on.

...

...

No pun intended

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You know what? No. I won't. Just out of spite. It's up to those who aren't voting to decide my fate at this point. If you all want a mislynch just because I voted myself as a joke, go on ahead.

Don't be spiteful, and don't self-vote. And don't claim it was a joke.

my personal, unofficial goal in this game is to survive to the end. It's been that way since I got my role PM, and I'm not about to give it up.

See, this makes me want to lynch you. Because if you're town, then surviving isn't your goal. Killing scum is. The latter leads to the other, but if you're trying to do the former, you're not trying to win the game for town.

OK, policy lynch me. Great excuse to stop scumhunting and get a town kill. I self vote ALL THE TIME!

besides, IT GOES AGAIN EVERYBODY'S WIN CON

Because of that, it'll get you policy lynched or maybe just straight up banned from games a lot.

It seems like Jargonaut was just waiting for a reason to jump on you. If I were you, that's who I'd vote right now.

Pretty sure this is bullshit.

Hold on Jargonaut. Explain to me why I didn't hammer Esspressojet if I'm scum.

Because we've come close to lynching you already and you don't want to look bad when Espresso flips town on your hammer. Duh.

We should have lynched Albert yesterday, and we really should do it today.

VOTE: Albert

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Interesting explanation. I have a follow up question for you Paschendale. Why would I look bad for hammering Esspressojet who has said himself that he is tunnelling on me? Why would I look bad for hammering someone who self-votes, with a majority of the town suspecting him if I include myself?

The truth is that I wouldn't "look bad" from hammering somebody who has not given me a chance in this entire game, who has decided to vote for me no matter what. No sir, the reason that I didn't hammer, is that I think he might be stubborn town. This practically confirms me as town here.

This is more of what makes you not town. Demanding townpoints, trying so hard to prove that you can't be scum. You clearly are thinking very hard about how you're being perceived.

We should have lynched me yesterday, instead of me and Anatole quicklynching Venrob-scum?

So your theory, is that I can hammer scum, and not get any credit for it, but if I hammer town, assuming Espressojet is town, I get all the blame?

Venrob was a lucky guess. And your vote had all the marks of a bus.

really don't see how it would make me seem scummy to hammer Esspressojet

It's not what you do. It's how you do it. Hammering Espresso is not inherently scummy. Trying to do it the way you're doing it, trying to use it to prove how gosh darn towny you are... that's scummy.

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Alright, Fish gets a second chance at a first impression.

@Mod: My vote is currently on Albert from post 831

Fixed, thanks for the correction/

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The mutiny thing was mine!

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@Mod: I will be V/LA tomorrow and Wednesday.

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I note a complete lack of anyone thinking that ABR is actually town.

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I note a complete lack of anyone thinking that ABR is actually town.

Actually, I'm now townreading him as hard as I was scumreading him at the start of the day.

He's being antitown as fuck, but not scum.

Please expound.

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Please expound.

I did. ABR's "fuck off and die" play today is not consistent with the mindset of scum who lost a buddy D2, especially if it's a 2-man scumteam, as may well be the case. Scum who got to L-1 and got off the hook sure as hell wouldn't fuck-you their way to L-1 a second time the same day.

That is a good point. I definitely need to re-evaluate.

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@Belis: If ABR is town, and has had so many votes on him, it's reasonable to think that scum pushed for his lynch. Whose votes for him do you think are scum motivated?

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Same question to anyone who thinks that ABR isn't scum.

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@Belis: If ABR is town, and has had so many votes on him, it's reasonable to think that scum pushed for his lynch. Whose votes for him do you think are scum motivated?

Juls and

maybe

hito. That's not a tough answer to predict.

I'm also open to the possibility (especially if I'm wrong about Juls) that there weren't any scum on the ABR wagon. I've seen plenty of shitwagons that were all town, and ABR's isn't even a shitwagon, given how anti-town his play has been. I'd gladly hammer him as a utility lynch if it becomes clear I won't be getting a scum lynch today. I can actually provide a pile of links to examples of all-town shitwagons, I've made the same argument in a completed game a few months back, all I'd have to do is find the game and copy/paste.

Juls I get. Why Hito?

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Juls I get. Why Hito?

Same reason I discussed with him earlier in this Day phase: His lack of concern over not being NK'd.

That doesn't seem like a very good reason. Night kills aren't some kind of equation where you can objectively measure the towniest person and they'll die. Sometimes they're random. Sometimes they're made in response to possibilities of blocks, docs, or jails. Sometimes they're made to influence town's reactions. Why should Hito have expected to die over everyone else, and why should he be concerned that he didn't?

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If Albert is off the table, and Belis' argument in his favor actually makes some sense... second choice it is.

VOTE: Belisarius

I'm hardly willing to take Fish's assertions on faith. I still think Belis is our third party killer.

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Pasch. Listen man, I like you this game. You are wrong here though. Beli did not kill anyone.

Then who did?

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Gee, maybe we should have just lynched ABR...

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So let's assume that's what he is claiming. Why are we lynching him again?

Because I have a very hard time believing there's an arsonist in a 13 player setup given when I already know about the setup.

Trying to get Bellisaurius lynched after he claims arsonist info. Killing of former fish in the night who pegged you as scum and your play making sense as a SK (excited to play the game day 1 and building town cred then not doing much on day 2 except riding your early town cred). It just fits.

Actually, I was the loudest voice against Belisarius over his claimed knowledge.

Are you suggesting that Reck is mafia or an SK? The argument in favor really ought to be different.

Either way, we should absolutely not quickwagon.

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You know, I think I should just claim now. In a 13 person game, there's probably only one scum left, and I want input from the group before I kill another townie.

I'm a vig. I killed Fitz and Belis. I suspected Fitz to be scum but couldn't really formulate a good argument to sell it, and I thought that Belis might be some kind of third party based on his inside knowledge. I thought that perhaps he declined to kill the first night to protect himself, but I see now that he was simply immune to scum's factional kill. That's really a damn shame, since a mutual claim yesterday would have rendered him confirmed and unkillable. As above, I'd rather use my power like a second lynch rather than act on my own at this point.

You are Roper, Federation Senior Engineering Officer. The Lanius as a species are newly discovered by the rest of the galaxy. Like the rest of your species, you have a mastery of all things technical, a fact that made you ideally suited to engineering. You admire the Federation, though you do not necessarily understand its values. You approach all beings as if they were machines, and if someone threatens the smooth working of the ship, then you have a duty to ensure they are stopped...

Anaerobic Respiration: Lanius physiology is very unusual - they do not require oxygen to breathe and even actively drain oxygen from any enclosed space they are in. As a result, they can be very effective killing machines, whether they mean to or not - and you definitely mean it. You don't even need to be in the same room, as your position of Senior Engineering Officer means you have direct control over the ventilation system and you can link two rooms so that they become in effect one single chamber. Each night, you may choose to target a player to kill.

Kill Method: Suffocation

You win when all Rebel threats to the success of your mission have been eliminated

You can find the game thread here.

Please confirm in thread.

As noted, the fire is the mafia kill, the oxygen deprivation was me. Unless an SK had declined to kill twice, we don't have one in this game.

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Also, did you crumb at all?

No, not really. I get PRs very seldom and don't really know how to do it skillfully. I certainly did argue for lynching both of them, though.

You killed the fireproof? What the fuck? Beli was so obviously town!

I disagree, but my suspicion of him was based on my role, so I didn't expect anyone else to see it exactly as I did. Either way, don't vote someone if you think they're an SK. There is almost assuredly not one. And if you want to do NK analysis, look at the burn kills.

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Why don't you step up your other contributions, then, Albert? Your ability to go along with the group is noted. It's not very useful, but it is noted.

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There's not much to add. His actions on day 2 looked like he was trying to find someone to pin kills on. Choosing not to kill in order to ensure that such a search couldn't be pointed at him seemed reasonable. His claimed knowledge about there being a SK despite the lack of any SK kills made me suspicious.

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But you said that his immunity to the scum's factional kill is what changed your mind. When was that?

I didn't change my mind. His comments made sense once I had the context of how his power worked. I understand why he knew what he knew and why he reached the conclusions he did.

And yes, that is my entire role PM.

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Assuming Espresso flips town and we don't win today, thoughts on vig target?

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The Rockman thing, as far as I could tell, was an explicit reference to a past game that I was not in. I had no idea what the fuck he was talking about with that.

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No shot Pasch?

Well, it's very nice the kills overlapped. I plan on not killing without a consensus from here on, though. Albert was too divisive to let live, though it was apparently unnecessary and it seems like a strange choice for scum to kill him. Otherwise, I have no suspects that I'm willing to kill unilaterally. I'm very relieved that no one else died last night.

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I've already explained everything, Hito. Stow the attitude.

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Hito, can you confirm Reck's story?

Vemar, we don't actually know what "combat-proof" means. I doubt it would be immunity to my vig kills, since I don't engage in combat with anyone. I suck the air out from a completely different room.

I definitely lean towards Juls for scum.

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So, I've been out all afternoon.

Hito definitely stands out as the scummiest right now. Juls has been on my scumdar the whole game, and Venmar has been a bit lurky in spots. Given my not so great track record with my shots, I feel that I am not barking up the right trees today.

However, I have the benefit of knowing that I am a vig and not a SK, so it makes it much easier to suspect Hito and believe everyone else. Reck is pretty much toast. He can't win. His claim makes almost no sense as a scum gambit, though.

If we mislynch tonight, then town will lose if I don't shoot someone? Please correct my math and rules if I'm wrong, but if we lynch, say, Hito, and it's really Venmar who's scum and he kills me or Juls, then the day starts and 1v1v1 and what the fuck happens then? Does scum win automatically? Does Reck get to just decide who wins?

I think Reck's claim is true. Juls is making my head spin. Venmar is more active now than for most of the previous game. Hito apparently thinks that shooting the wrong people makes me a SK and not a vig, but won't explain why. But his argument relies on me being a SK and I know I'm not one.

Oh, also, if we mislynch today, shooting Reck would definitely not be my plan. It would be shooting Venmar or Juls, in the hope of hitting the remaining scum.

Hito is my top choice for scum right now.

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I'll shoot whoever I think is scum.

VOTE: Hito

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I plan on not killing without a consensus from here on, though.

Plans change.

But seriously, while I expect Hito to flip scum, if anyone wants to make a case on Venmar or Juls, now would be the time to do it.

@Mod: What happens if we find ourselves at 1v1v1?

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It doesn't bother me, Juls.

[Paschendale]

I was more so talking about Pasch not killing Beli.

I think the consensus was that any vig should shoot me, Pasch acted correctly. Especially after Espresso's flip, I'd have been a massive liability in LyLo--duplicate roles aren't really a thing in current site meta. If he hadn't shot me, he would have shot someone else and we'd have hit endgame at the same time, but with a survivor list less conducive to a town win. So really, if Pasch had listened to you about

that

, we probably would have lost.

The stuff you knew but didn't know made me really suspicious. It would have been really hard for me not to shoot you. Almost out of just self-defense. And I stand by by the decision to kill Albert. He was so divisive that he'd have been a big liability at the end. Fitz was just me, though. Feel free to disagree over that one.

[Paschendale]

This game was fun!

[Paschendale]

Was the "need to neighborize three people to win" a gambit to gain our trust, Reck? There's nothing like that in your PM. Seems like a weird choice.

Also, the different kill styles for each person is an interesting mechanic. That could have made my claim much more complicated, since it looked like all mafia kills were done with fire.