Mini 1592: Flying Aces (Game Over)

[Why not]

Also there's really no excuse to have me at null at this point. I've interacted directly with at least 75% of the playerlist in ways that should strongly generate opinions.

not everyone uses interaction tells on d1 ma man

[Majiffy]

Who you should help me lynch one of my scum reads.

[Majiffy]

Also there's really no excuse to have me at null at this point. I've interacted directly with at least 75% of the playerlist in ways that should strongly generate opinions.

not everyone uses interaction tells on d1 ma man

I'm not talking about tells.

If you can't generate a read on me based on the content in this thread by now, I don't see how you can play this game to any level of success.

[Shiryu]

Shiryu stahp

Alright, I suppose I did jump the gun on that one. I was mostly trying to see if a change in the vote count might help generate even more discussion (and I'm actually really liking these last couple of pages for the extra discussion we've had). I'll trust your opinion for now and undo that vote.

Now I was going to change my vote to Baezu to go for a tie, but looks like that won't be possible now (thanks a lot, why not). So I'll just go back to my original choice.

UNVOTE: Marcrell
VOTE: Messiah Complex

And making it clear, unless new discussion/info comes up, I'm limiting my vote to either Messiah, Baezu or Marcrell for day 1.

Messiah- unfortunately for me, only my town games are scummy. I haven't been scum much but I've won most of my scum games and been lynched d1 in most of my town games. In my scum games no one thinks I'm scummy. I don't act scummy, I'm not accused of being scummy and I usually can coast to a win. So if you feel I'm being scummy this game you can be sure it's because I'm town. If I were scum right now, I'd be drawing way less attention to myself and being way more subversive

This post really throws up some red flags. It basically frees you from all scummy behavior. VOTE: Baezu Maybe it's true, but the addition of how he only looks town when he's scum seals it.
Also inclined to say Pants is probably scum, considering I like what Thor has been saying and town read him, but not enough to drop off of this for now.

unvote

is it really that unbelievable that someone thinks they look scummy as town, though?
especially when there are people who sort of agree with them?

this is very poor, but doesn't seem as accidental as drpants's style of poor

I'd agree it's not ubelievable at all. I would say it's not something that should be used to justify/defend yourself, though. Now where you calling Marcrell's response poor? Or was that refering to Baezu herself?

guys, we need to decide on a wagon. Part of the reason this game is stalling is that we have yet to build up a strong wagon. Let's get this shit together before we are too rushed into a lynch by the deadline.

I don't feel like the day is very stalled at all.
Besides, what you're basically saying is that we should rush into a lynch now rather than later.
In both cases, because of an impending deadline. :/

I feel like the game had been stalled at least around yesterday or so. Felt like a lot of the discussions where going around in circles. Seems like we've gotten back on track today, though.

Now, trying to get a better read on Thor, I did look up his wiki, which makes mention of how it's usually now in the town's benefit to wait out the day until the deadline, unless we're actually using that time to get more info or advance the game. Would this be something everyone generally agrees with? Since it does make sense to me. At this point I don't feel like going into a lynch would be rushing things, since we've got plenty of info to work with. But hey, if we can still get even more info, then all the better for us.

[Why not]

im happy with marcrell lynch today

Also there's really no excuse to have me at null at this point. I've interacted directly with at least 75% of the playerlist in ways that should strongly generate opinions.

not everyone uses interaction tells on d1 ma man

I'm not talking about tells.

If you can't generate a read on me based on the content in this thread by now, I don't see how you can play this game to any level of success.

play follow the cop?

[Why not]

baezu seems to have a legitimate claim to the "look-scum-as-town" syndrome and we should probably respect it for the time being
whether it's a good way to defend oneself doesn't really matter if baezu really does think his syndrome is the root of our problem with his play

and
well i could totally be okay with a messiah lynch

majiffy lotsa people can make hundreds of posts and be unreadable
especially big shots like you

[Baezu]

Marcrell- that vote is totally not OMGUS. You have been one of my scumpects since my reads list. It just clinched it for me when you voted me but it's not what made me vote you. I'd be willing to lynch messiah as well.

[Majiffy]

If you're ok with voting Messiah please move, then. That's enough support to take this wagon to 4 now.

majiffy lotsa people can make hundreds of posts and be unreadable
especially big shots like you

I disagree. You may not be able to be

sure

of your read, but to not have a read

at all

? Nah.

[farside22]

Marcell, messiah and jiffy (so far as I recall this won't change and from what I read from others I'm not off my rocker)

You should help me bus my buddy Messiah.

Sure like thor is scum and I'm scum and hey look it's omgus time.

It's times like this I wish I could refer to ongoing games.

I'm not scumreading Thor.

Why are you unwilling to vote your stated scumreads?

I am voting one of my stated scum reads, but please go on lying.
Why is Macrell a shit wagon with shit reasons?

[farside22]

Messiah Complex

: (2)

Majiffy, Shiryu

Majiffy

: (2)

Messiah Complex

,

Thor665

Thor665

: (2)

Dr Pants

,

CooLDoG

Marcrell

: (4)

Anatole Kuragin

,

viking cat

,

farside22

,

Baezu

Baezu

: (3)

Paschendale

,

Why not

,

Marcrell

You can thank me later.

Oh look sudden scum list and 3 out of 4 find jiffy scum.
Coincedence? I think not.

[farside22]

Messiah- unfortunately for me, only my town games are scummy. I haven't been scum much but I've won most of my scum games and been lynched d1 in most of my town games. In my scum games no one thinks I'm scummy. I don't act scummy, I'm not accused of being scummy and I usually can coast to a win. So if you feel I'm being scummy this game you can be sure it's because I'm town. If I were scum right now, I'd be drawing way less attention to myself and being way more subversive

This post really throws up some red flags. It basically frees you from all scummy behavior. VOTE: Baezu Maybe it's true, but the addition of how he only looks town when he's scum seals it.
Also inclined to say Pants is probably scum, considering I like what Thor has been saying and town read him, but not enough to drop off of this for now.

This pretty much clinches it for me

VOTE: marcrell

Ah the magic of OMGUS.

Messiah- unfortunately for me, only my town games are scummy. I haven't been scum much but I've won most of my scum games and been lynched d1 in most of my town games. In my scum games no one thinks I'm scummy. I don't act scummy, I'm not accused of being scummy and I usually can coast to a win. So if you feel I'm being scummy this game you can be sure it's because I'm town. If I were scum right now, I'd be drawing way less attention to myself and being way more subversive

This post really throws up some red flags. It basically frees you from all scummy behavior. VOTE: Baezu Maybe it's true, but the addition of how he only looks town when he's scum seals it.
Also inclined to say Pants is probably scum, considering I like what Thor has been saying and town read him, but not enough to drop off of this for now.

Also if you read the ISO from Marcell would some point to where Marcell agreed with thor or said anything about thor or the case before this?
here it is

So I didn't mention him before. Mentioning him now is scummy? Are players limited to their first couple of reactions in a game, and they have to stand with them forever?

You agree with thor for no noted reason. It reads as buddying, especially this late in the game with a piss poor attempt to look like you scum hunting.

[Majiffy]

I am voting one of my stated scum reads, but please go on lying.
Why is Macrell a shit wagon with shit reasons?

Because Marcrell is town and none of the stated reasons hold any weight.

Oh look sudden scum list and 3 out of 4 find jiffy scum.
Coincedence? I think not.

Yeah it's tough when your whole team has to gang up to get me out of the game early, innit?

[farside22]

I am voting one of my stated scum reads, but please go on lying.
Why is Macrell a shit wagon with shit reasons?

Because Marcrell is town and none of the stated reasons hold any weight.

Oh look sudden scum list and 3 out of 4 find jiffy scum.
Coincedence? I think not.

Yeah it's tough when your whole team has to gang up to get me out of the game early, innit?

Wow.
Way to explain nothing.

[Majiffy]

Tough cookies.

[farside22]

Anatole: looked through your iso, why is messiah a scum read?

[CooLDoG]

I like thor, baezu and marcell as lynchs... All of them could go and I would be happy.

vote: marcell

wagon ho!

@whynot, but if we drive a wagon now we still have time to back off and reconsider. This is a luxury we won't get four days from now.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Starting from the top with post #282.

Messiah comes into the game criticizing my post

en français

. CoolDoG didn't like it either, but something about Messiah's response seemed like he felt nervous/threatened by it. Messiah says he thinks it's "against the rules" (it's not) and not to do it again. He said that I'm using the language my role speaks as a forced town tell. As far as I know there has been no mention of what allegiances most town players would have (it's French mixed with British, based on the historical Bloody April and Beli did say they were Allies but nothing specific.) This is a mostly null point if mafia have a sample/fake role PM, which is possible, but in my mind he sees my comments, looks at his role, sees it's a German, and freaks out and tries to quell any more mention of language or nationality. But he might have a fake claim so I'll get over this. The weird thing though, is I get put almost at the very bottom of his reads just for these posts, then he more or less ignores me the rest of the game except for in regards to the french translation thing, which came across half-joking and half-matter-of-fact. Basically, he put me at the bottom of his reads then didn't pursue me as scum whatsoever.

This will be a running theme.

Something odd Messiah is doing is referencing real life "think of the good times" shit in multiple posts that comes across as trying to appear relaxed and paint himself in a positive light. This could also be null but we're just getting started dudes bear with me. Evidence of this point - mentioning the way him and his brother play, his fiance, his daughter's birthday, etc. He also jokes around about his history with Pasch and how everybody perceives people as scummy sometimes when they're not. Seems like just your average bro trying to break the ice.

Except he also comes across super serious and with a stick up his ass half the time. Weird changes in tone. Could be due to the hydras, but from what I can tell in other games the heads have more nuanced differences in their posting styles than just tone.

Messiah defends/supports/townreads Pants like 3 separate times in post 282 which I found strange since I wasn't scumreading Pants.

Majiffy says he finds some post by Shiryu scummy which prompts this reaction from Messiah:

What does their role PM have to do with anything, are you implying that they rolled scum and that’s why they RVSed the way they did? I’m really not liking how far Jiffy is going with the Shir read

That's weird, since you read me as the second scummiest person in the game for what was basically a joke-around/flavor french post in the RVS.

Thor- I think we’ve played twice so far, from what I remember you are more observant than you seem in response to Jiffy. I hope for our sake that you just missed the boat on that one, and that you aren’t clutching at straws to find something scummy. And I should have known talking shit about you not understanding something would bite me in the ass, just didn’t know it would happen this soon.

aka, i know you're a strong player so i won't directly attack you in fear of being attacked myself but i will pretend like i'm doing further scumhunting

Shiryu- why did you feel the need to preface your play by stating that it could be off because you haven’t played in awhile? Why not play the game and run into any issues when they come up. How do you feel about the chances of death in fighter pilots? A statistic I just made up shows that 95% of all pilots would die before the end of the war, comments?

why do you feel the need to tell us about your past games with Pasch, or how you and your brother play together or any of that other minutia? again, weird hypocritical change in tone that comes across to me as wanting to appear like he's more pro-town than he is

now post #360 - he seems a lot more defensive than before after being (perhaps accurately?) scumread by a few players

In response to CoolDoG disliking my use of French and saying criticizing it is as valid as the pointless meta conversation from before

Could also be seen as coaching, like you are warning him to not make a claim based off the French thing.

yeah if we were scum we would be dumb enough to openly discuss that shit and as bombastically as CoolDog did. this is the brilliant evidence messiah must have for me being SO SCUMMY since it's the last time he referenced me at all, and it's strange that this would be part of his read since CoolDog was in his "null town" read list

@Farside- I’m not used to lazy wagons from Jiffy. I am used to seeing him analyze a player and their posts to make a solid read based off more than what he is doing now. That is why I am scum reading him and voting him. I do not like the push he has made, from the beginning or currently. I think he is wrong. The only thing that would make me question my read on him is the ferocity that he is showing going after this , imo, mislynch. He is a stellar player though and would know that scum would stick out by doing this, which would be his defense of why he isn’t scum.

More non-committal buddying to strong players. He has done this to Majiffy and Thor at least.

post #500

I am not going to quote the whole post, and every time I try to break down a post in the way I want to I fuck it up, but #422 from CD says a lot of the things I have thought about lynching people who seem scummy no matter what. I think that as town you have an obligation to act as town as possible, just like the best way to play scum is to play the way you would as town. If you are town and act scummy as fuck then you are taking focus off of actual scum hunting because now we have to figure out if you are scum-scum or scum-town. It also allows scum to push wagons that appear to be legit because we all see how scummy the scum-townie is looking. I hate playing with people who use the “Well, I’m always scummy, but this time I’m town, scouts honor guys” bullshit.

This sounds like he is co-opting an excuse to lynch players as town that were town but acting "scummy." Basically removing any responsibility from his lynches.

then he talks about his fiance or some shit

This guy has made like 5 posts with actual content and every one has given me the feeling that he is pretending to be town, even moreso than Marcrell. And I don't know if he's just buddying with Pants or if he's dumb enough to defend his scum partner so ardently, but he seriously defends Pants like 7 times in 11 posts.

VOTE: messiah complex

[Anatole Kuragin]

honestly seeing baezu less and less scummy, and she doesn't really make sense as scum if messiah is as well

[Anatole Kuragin]

Yes.

Anatole is thrown into the scumreads because the ISO left me feeling incredibly null and that's problematic 22 pages in with plenty of content to work with.

so I'm scum because I'm null? I thought this was AMERICA what happened to innocent until proven guilty!?

[farside22]

VOTE: Messiah

Best case if the game.

Here jiffy I'm helping you bus your scum buddy because someone made a case that wasn't nothing.

[Baezu]

Good points you brought up Anatole and I was thinking scum before anyway.

VOTE: messiah

[Majiffy]

Case was pretty derp but what do you expect from bussing buddies?

Yes.

Anatole is thrown into the scumreads because the ISO left me feeling incredibly null and that's problematic 22 pages in with plenty of content to work with.

so I'm scum because I'm null? I thought this was AMERICA what happened to innocent until proven guilty!?

It's pretty damning that your ISO leaves me feeling null at 22 pages.

[Belisarius]

A Luftsreitkrafte missive has been delivered to our Aerodrome CO by an anonymous party. Translation follows:

REF-PLT-1187-X
ALERT-7-30-RRF

ATTN: ALL PILOTS

It has been confirmed that there was a security breach. Repeat, a security breach has been confirmed. An unknown agent attempted to gain access to sensitive documents regarding the war effort. It is believed that he or she was unable to achieve their main goals but we cannot confirm what information may or may not have discovered.

Evidence suggests the agent is probably either French or American. It is suggested you consider deployment of anti-spy measures. Further information will be provided as it is discovered.

END MESSAGE

[Anatole Kuragin]

Case was pretty derp but what do you expect from bussing buddies?

Yes.

Anatole is thrown into the scumreads because the ISO left me feeling incredibly null and that's problematic 22 pages in with plenty of content to work with.

so I'm scum because I'm null? I thought this was AMERICA what happened to innocent until proven guilty!?

It's pretty damning that your ISO leaves me feeling null at 22 pages.

If you're serious then you're kinda bad at mafia

[Anatole Kuragin]

If I was partners with Messiah, why would I bus him and vote him now instead of just going with the established Baezu/Marcrell wagons or joining one of the others? That doesn't make any sense dude.