Newbie 1517: Crossroads Mafia (Game Over)

[Malakittens]

It depends. Sometimes she tunnels others she doesn't. She has experience with both TSO and I. I expected her to flesh out her reads more. She seems like she's more in a scum-tunnel mindset than a town because town-Rach at least listens to people.

Also scum hammer survivalist is a thing, so is a town-hammer survivalist. In a way it''s null, but I don't like people clearing her for this.

Ugh N_M ._.

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you find that alignment indicative and not just a symptom of inactivity/her IRL issues?

...Because it was the same with the last game I played with her. If someone has the same plays from one game to another it is at least slightly indicative that they are the same alignment.

I understand that, but it seems to me she did that this game because she couldn't be active, not as a town trait of hers. Your read seems disproportionately strong for something based on a single meta point that isn't even necessarily related to her alignment

Ugh N_M ._.

Hello to you too

[Glass]

Also scum hammer survivalist is a thing, so is a town-hammer survivalist. In a way it''s null, but I don't like people clearing her for this.

Who is clearing N_M/Rach for hammering?

[acryon]

Why is half the playerlist not voting?

I'm still between voting you and Clusk. I want to hear some more from Clusk before I make a decision.

If you find my slot scummy you should be voting me, if Clusk comes in and you find him scummier you can always just move your vote. If you're town you should always try to be using your vote.

Personally, I think if I put my vote out on you, it would take pressure off of Clusk, which I'm not interested in doing. By abstaining, I can keep some pressure on both.

[Billi bilaði]

...
180: He's bad for pressuring active players? What?
...

I have answered this before. He's bad for ONLY pressuring active players, with ALL the posts he's putting in. See more details in earlier answers.

...
189: You think he was distancing from Victor? Explain this please
...

Victor isn't the only possible mafia although my vote might be on him at the time. As you say in your next quote here below, I pretty much see a mafioso in every corner.
But, then again, I think you are misunderstanding my post. I said he was: "distancing himself from a mafia-

role

". Not from a "... mafia-

partner

".

...
191: Well congratulations, you managed to call pretty much everyone scum in the space of half a page
...

I'm good that way.

...
227: Why not just put her on L-1 and announce it normally?
...

Because there were a number of people posting at this particular time, so I wanted to make sure two people weren't voting at the same time, and take the possibility of defense away from Rach.

...
234: Don't like this vote, Doogal clearly states a progression in his read since his pressure vote
...

Progression in his read? I don't understand.
He stated that he wouldn't take any more part in the game for the remainder of the day, and we were in the final hours. I found that unacceptable.

[Billi bilaði]

...Billi has a lot of weird posts but I'm not sure if it's an ESL issue and it's clouding my read a bit...

What does ESL mean?

[Billi bilaði]

...

Glass gets an inherited mafia-vibe because Lucy replacing out after 1 post smells bad to me. I know people argue against that kind of suspicions (but it was true in my last game), and so I'm trying to keep that notion on the down and low.

Ya, good job with keeping that on the down and low. To be honest, I am not sure why this needs to be kept on the down and low, you are allowed to talk about incorrect tells if you want...

I'm keeping this on the down and low within my suspicion list. I.e. I'm trying to not let it affect my reads too much. But it's always in the back of my head.

[Billi bilaði]

Also scum hammer survivalist is a thing, so is a town-hammer survivalist. In a way it''s null, but I don't like people clearing her for this.

Who is clearing N_M/Rach for hammering?

I guess that means me.
You asking this question puts you lower on my list.

[Not_Mafia]

...
[/line]189: You think he was distancing from Victor? Explain this please
...

Victor isn't the only possible mafia although my vote might be on him at the time. As you say in your next quote here below, I pretty much see a mafioso in every corner.
But, then again, I think you are misunderstanding my post. I said he was: "distancing himself from a mafia-

role

". Not from a "... mafia-

partner

".

I don't understand what you mean by distancing from a mafia role, can you elaborate please?

...
234: Don't like this vote, Doogal clearly states a progression in his read since his pressure vote
...

Progression in his read? I don't understand.
He stated that he wouldn't take any more part in the game for the remainder of the day, and we were in the final hours. I found that unacceptable.

He had Rach listed as a null read, but in his end of day post he says this...

I'm ok with Rach being lynched as she is probably the only person contributing less then I am at this point, so I will leave my vote where it is.

Implying some progression in his read

...Billi has a lot of weird posts but I'm not sure if it's an ESL issue and it's clouding my read a bit...

What does ESL mean?

English Second Language

[Clusk92]

I am getting bad vibes from Clusk, half of his ISO is him trying to spread doubt "this could all be a scum bluff" or "be careful guys, somebody might hammer. Not that I am going to unvote or anything"

These are the same thoughts I had on him in my initial reads.

Clusk - Possibly Scum
The primary scummy things I have seen from Clusk are that on two different occasions, making a comment about "mafia wouldn't be stupid enough to...". Usually when someone is trying to paint a picture of what mafia do or don't do, they are trying to give the town a mafia description that will eventually clear themselves due to mismatch.

Just quoting so it can be added to the current discussion.

Also to that point:

No-ones stupid enough you're right, still possible for an accidental hammer though.

The Doogal lynch happened really fast, and Rach's wagon disappeared very quickly after being put to L-1. This indicates to me a scum counter-wagon.

Rach has a townread on Doogal in #232 and just SIX posts later hammers him. That change of mind wasn't natural in that short space of time.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

You said no one is stupid enough to put in the final vote as mafia, yet you are voting for Rach for doing exactly that.

Take this with a grain of salt, as there is some imagination here, but a possible scenario to think about:

Clusk lays out in two different early posts that scum most likely wouldn't give the final vote. This paves the way for Rach to hammer Doogal without suspicion despite how quick it was. Unfortunately, the other circumstances surrounding that wagon and Rach's posts themselves continued to make her seem very guilty(at least to me and a couple others). As she was unable to post very much, this took off some heat on her which, unfortunately for Clusk, turned to him. Seeing himself in the heat, he finds the perfect way to get out: lead a lynch on his mafia counterpart. Not only can he take the current heat off of himself by trying to put town onto something he knows we can probably get behind, but he clears himself in the future as the person who lead town to kill scum.

I said scum wouldn't be stupid enough to hammer early on. Rach's hammer wasn't an early hammer.

There wasn't any heat on me when I voted for N_M, so that (imaginative, I'll give you that) theory falls a bit flat

Feel a bit better about N_M now after his posts, and I agree on second thoughts that the hammer could have come from either town or scum in that position - and with not much time remaining

UNVOTE:

Glass and Mala seem town to me, suspicious of Shaddow and Billi, the latter in particular for being annoyed at votes on Doogal even though he was on the same wagon and saying there was plenty of time when there wasn't. Still got a solid scumread on Victor based on his posts throughout the game solidified by his rolefishing at the start of the day.

VOTE: Victor

[penguin_alien]

Replacing VictorDeAngelo. Vote count incoming...

[penguin_alien]

Bins replaces VictorDeAngelo

[penguin_alien]

Vote Count 2.03:

With eight alive, it takes five to lynch!

Clusk92 (L-4): Glass
Billi bilaoi (L-4): shaddowez
Glass (L-5):
shaddowez (L-4): Billi bilaoi
acryon (L-5):
Bins (L-3): Not_Mafia, Clusk92
Not_Mafia (L-5):
Malakittens (L-5):

Not voting: acryon, Bins, Malakittens

V/LA:

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-08-09 20:56:55)

[Bins]

HELLO, LOVELIES.


I've read through but reads and stuff will have to come in the morning 'cause zzzz.

[Malakittens]

BINS

HIHIHI

I LOVE YOU

[Not_Mafia]

Ugh N_M ._.

BINS

HIHIHI

I LOVE YOU

Well I never

[Not_Mafia]

Hi Bins are you roleblocker or goon?

[Billi bilaði]

...
[/line]189: You think he was distancing from Victor? Explain this please
...

Victor isn't the only possible mafia although my vote might be on him at the time. As you say in your next quote here below, I pretty much see a mafioso in every corner.
But, then again, I think you are misunderstanding my post. I said he was: "distancing himself from a mafia-

role

". Not from a "... mafia-

partner

".

I don't understand what you mean by distancing from a mafia role, can you elaborate please?
...

When I ISO'd acryon I got the overall feeling that he was more focus on giving the message that he was not in the mafia, than finding out who was. (And now, when I ISO him again, he is pretty focused on Victor - so, yes, he might be distancing himself from Victor.)

[Glass]

Man, the playerlist just keeps getting better.

[acryon]

...
[/line]189: You think he was distancing from Victor? Explain this please
...

Victor isn't the only possible mafia although my vote might be on him at the time. As you say in your next quote here below, I pretty much see a mafioso in every corner.
But, then again, I think you are misunderstanding my post. I said he was: "distancing himself from a mafia-

role

". Not from a "... mafia-

partner

".

I don't understand what you mean by distancing from a mafia role, can you elaborate please?
...

When I ISO'd acryon I got the overall feeling that he was more focus on giving the message that he was not in the mafia, than finding out who was. (And now, when I ISO him again, he is pretty focused on Victor - so, yes, he might be distancing himself from Victor.)

When reading through this thread for the very first time, I was getting the impression that Victor was scum, but after a couple more of his posts, I realized that I think it was just his play-style that was rubbing me the wrong way. When I took that out of the equation, coupled with some very-town posts from him, my scum-read disappeared.

Feel a bit better about N_M now after his posts, and I agree on second thoughts that the hammer could have come from either town or scum in that position - and with not much time remaining

UNVOTE:

Wait, what? So you think that a town that has a

town-read

on someone would rather hammer them than hammer no one?

For the record, I do still think N_M is scum as well, but this one seems easier to get us to agree on at the moment.
VOTE: Clusk

[Not_Mafia]

I do not like my company on this wagon, but that 'slayer's gambit' and the mass claim suggestion were so out there

[Billi bilaði]

A new read table with a bit extra info. I hope I've got the reads correct:

The (Totals) column indicates how suspicious the Player is of his fellows.
The (Totals) line indicates how the Suspect is rated by his fellows.

Players\Suspects	Clusk92	Billi	Glass	shaddowez	acryon	Bins	Not_Mafia	Malakittens	(Totals)
Clusk92	XXXXX	medium scum	medium town	weak scum	null read	strong scum	weak scum	medium town	-3
Billi	weak scum	XXXXX	null read	medium scum	null read	null read	weak town	medium scum	-4
Glass	medium scum	weak town?	XXXXX	null read	null read	weak town	medium town	null read	+2
shaddowez	weak town	strong scum	strong town	XXXXX	strong town	weak town	null read	null read	+5
acryon	medium scum	null read	null read	weak scum	XXXXX	medium town	strong scum	medium town	-2
Bins	weak town	weak scum	null read	weak town	weak town	XXXXX	null read	weak scum	+1
Not_Mafia	weak scum	weak scum	medium town	weak scum	null read	medium scum	XXXXX	medium town	-1
Malakittens	strong town	strong scum	null read	weak scum	medium town	weak scum	strong scum	XXXXX	-3
(Totals)	-1	-9	+7	-5	+6	-2	-4	+3

This doesn't put me in a too good light.

[Bins]

I just woke up but I just love you all so much that I had to say good morning first thing.

BINS

HIHIHI

I LOVE YOU

<3

Hi Bins are you roleblocker or goon?

Cop.



@Billi - I like your reads chart a lot, I think it's really helpful. But those are Victor's reads, not mine, so they're probably going to change (hint hint).

[Clusk92]

...
[/line]189: You think he was distancing from Victor? Explain this please
...

Victor isn't the only possible mafia although my vote might be on him at the time. As you say in your next quote here below, I pretty much see a mafioso in every corner.
But, then again, I think you are misunderstanding my post. I said he was: "distancing himself from a mafia-

role

". Not from a "... mafia-

partner

".

I don't understand what you mean by distancing from a mafia role, can you elaborate please?
...

When I ISO'd acryon I got the overall feeling that he was more focus on giving the message that he was not in the mafia, than finding out who was. (And now, when I ISO him again, he is pretty focused on Victor - so, yes, he might be distancing himself from Victor.)

When reading through this thread for the very first time, I was getting the impression that Victor was scum, but after a couple more of his posts, I realized that I think it was just his play-style that was rubbing me the wrong way. When I took that out of the equation, coupled with some very-town posts from him, my scum-read disappeared.

Feel a bit better about N_M now after his posts, and I agree on second thoughts that the hammer could have come from either town or scum in that position - and with not much time remaining

UNVOTE:

Wait, what? So you think that a town that has a

town-read

on someone would rather hammer them than hammer no one?

For the record, I do still think N_M is scum as well, but this one seems easier to get us to agree on at the moment.
VOTE: Clusk

Yes. From a town perspective, they know they're 100% town. The town-read they're hammering is not 100% town. Therefore, in the circumstances (little time left and no other alternative lynching options apart from themselves) it's the optimal play.

@Bins, is that cop claim a joke or a serious one?

[acryon]

Yes. From a town perspective, they know they're 100% town. The town-read they're hammering is not 100% town. Therefore, in the circumstances (little time left and no other alternative lynching options apart from themselves) it's the optimal play.

Except that she was only at L-2 at that point, and with a train rolling on Doogal, there was no danger of her getting lynched. So the choice was much more-so between lynching someone you have a town-read on and sleeping. I hate just sleeping as much as the next guy, but I think the lynch play there was very far from optimal.