Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[ThirtyFour]

I'm not completely sure how we should use the door mechanic yet, but I agree that we should only use them with a good reason.

6-8+2=0, so Flames682 must be Zero!
VOTE: Flames

[ThirtyFour]

You'd need a third player to go through the door anyway, right? So no being locked alone in a room with someone

[ThirtyFour]

@ Akane: Is there a reason you changed your random vote, or was that just, well, random?

--

We'll lose the doors after using them, so wouldn't it be better to use them when we can use them strategically?

[ThirtyFour]

Right, anything longer than day 4 would be rare, I guess (day 5 can only happen if there's a NK and a NL, right?)
Anyway, we can still make the best of the doors and not just use completely random groups. If we want everyone to go through a door tonight, we need to make two groups, since we'll only be eight players at the end of the day and eight players can't make three groups. We'll also need to know who's getting lynched, possibly by changing door votes after someone has giving intent to hammer.
Also, the problem with using doors isn't only that we're losing the doors, it might make some player combinations impossible later.

@ Akane: Alright, that makes sense.

PEdit: Jackel said pretty much what I wanted to say ...

@ Jackel: You have the number 9, that's pretty cool too, since you can be added to any group without changing the digital root. But you're also the ninth man, so ...

[ThirtyFour]

I have a question for everyone: How should we group people into doors? Randomly, or not randomly?

As not randomly as possible, in my opinion.

[ThirtyFour]

VOTE: Unvote

If we're putting people at L-1 already, I guess RVS is over? It was a random vote and I'm not seeing Flames being confusing as scummy right now, he sounds like what I remember from a game with him I've read.

Reckoner's suggestion of random doors looks fine to me, even though I don't agree, I don't think it's scummy to suggest not to waste too much time talking about doors that could be spent scumhunting. Though I'm wondering ...
@ Reckoner: Why do you assume we'll be in 5p LyLo on day 3? Is this the most common way a 9-player-game goes?

I agree with a lot of things Jackel said, but still some of his posts feel awkward. Kind of ambivalent about him. But at this point in the game it's all just a gut feeling.

Not sure what to think about the discussion about Bins's random vote, I read it as voting for Not_Mafia too and Bins' comments fit perfectly with that, so I'm wondering why Parama didn't consider this, but I misunderstand things badly too, so I can't complain about that, I guess? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding Parama? Waiting for an explanation here.

tl;dr: everyone is pretty much null?? Well, it's page 3 ...

[ThirtyFour]

I think the PEdit in post 23 should make it obvious that I didn't just restate what Jackel said, but that he ninja'd me there and I didn't want to just PEdit out everything when it was still my opinion and were still some new things.
I unvoted Flames because it was an RVS hammer. I honestly don't know who else to vote right now, because I'd like to be reasonably confident in a scumread before I vote anyone, and that's not happening after three pages, at least not with me. I gave opinions, I'm just not confident in them yet - I think I implied that Parama and Jackel were mild gut scumreads, if I didn't, I'm saying it now. If that's enough to vote them, I can do that, of course. I'm trying my best to scumhunt here, I read this thread multiple times, but I just don't know what do do right now.

[ThirtyFour]

Well, let's hope I don't die early. I don't even get a cool nickname...
[...]
PEDIT-2: I didn't think of it that way, Reckoner...

At first, I saw you as trying to use up all the doors as soon as possible. I still think that three groups is too many, but after you posted your reasoning, I lost my reason to be voting you. Still in the beginning of the game, but this game is already interesting.

This just sounds awkward to me. It's hard to explain a gut feeling. Especially the "this game is already interesting" part.

@ Jackel: If the game's already finished, can you link me to the example? It might just be a playstyle thing I'm responding to here.

[ThirtyFour]

@ Reckoner: Why was flames being put at L-1 not a real wagon?

[ThirtyFour]

@ Parama: This mostly comes down to personality and being afraid of playing badly.

@ Jackel: The awkwardness isn't about pessimism and sarcasm, it's more about sounding "fake", and I'm not seeing the same in the other game.

I agree that putting Flames at L-1 was silly. I don't like Parama being wanting to leave him there.

@ Parama: Why were you fine with putting Flames at L-1 on the second page over one post?

[ThirtyFour]

@ Reckoner: Why are you townreading Flames? Why are you so sure he "is town"?

[ThirtyFour]

If that's enough to vote them, I can do that, of course.

You should pretty much always be using your vote, this is the kind of thing that usually gets ironed out in the newbie queue.

Alright, thank you, I'm doing that then.
VOTE: Parama

@ Parama: This mostly comes down to personality and being afraid of playing badly.

You're going to play less efectively and get more scumreads the more the more self conscious you play

It's hard to change personality and something learned from lot of off-site experiences (on Epicmafia, if you say/do a single thing people don't like, you get lynched within roughly 10 seconds -.-), but I'm trying.

I agree that putting Flames at L-1 was silly. I don't like Parama being wanting to leave him there.

@ Parama: Why were you fine with putting Flames at L-1 on the second page over one post?

Do you think L-1 is inherently bad?

No. L-1 can be pretty good. But I don't think it is on D2 based on a single post - then I see no reason to do that and it could possibly lead to a derphammer because that early in the game people might not look at the votecount (like Parama did).

@ Reckoner: Why are you townreading Jackel? What do you think about the awkwardness in his posts I'm feeling?

[ThirtyFour]

@ Parama: This mostly comes down to personality and being afraid of playing badly.

Then go play another newbie game if you don't feel confident in your abilities. Really.
Also doesn't really answer my questions. Too vague.

It's personality, it's not changing that easily, and even super experienced players still make mistakes, so having more experience doesn't mean there's no mistakes for me to be afraid of. (And I do have offsite experience.)
I didn't vote because I didn't want to vote without a good reason, and I didn't think having a mild gut scumread was enough of a reason.
I'm hesitant because I'm always like that.
I "asked for permission" because I wanted to know if that was considered a good enough reason here - I just didn't know.
Not_Mafia made that completely clear for me, which is why I voted. You were asking questions, he was answering mine. Also, you were attacking me in a way I didn't like and you are a mild gut scumread.
I didn't feel like a mild gut scumread was enough and wanted to have more of an opinion (which I'm slowly getting now, but still, I work better with more information).

I agree that putting Flames at L-1 was silly. I don't like Parama being wanting to leave him there.

@ Parama: Why were you fine with putting Flames at L-1 on the second page over one post?

Explain the downsides of having someone at L-1.
"He could be quickhammered!"
Sure, and then person who did it would be pretty much dead the next day; scum would never take that risk. Tell me something other than that.

You haven't answered my question. What's good about putting someone at L-1 on the second page over one post?
And I said why I didn't like it in my last post.

--

After him acknowledging the misunderstanding with Bins way too late when it really should have been obvious and putting Flames at L-2 without a good reason (and without explaining his reason when I asked for it), I think Parama is pushing for easy mislynches.

[ThirtyFour]

(Or any easy lynches - it's not like scum can't bus, or Bins and Flames are conftown.)

[ThirtyFour]

I really don't know what to do here. I know I'm playing terribly right now. I don't know if I'll get a chance to improve, but I hope so. I believe this is something that can be overcome. In any case, I'm sorry for not contributing. I'm sorry for distracting from the real scum. I'm sorry if I'm making this game less fun. I know I made a mistake by going into this game. I'm willing to learn from it.

Still, please look into Parama, please. Can't expect my scumreads after 4 pages to be accurate, but I maintain that his actions towards Bins and Flames are suspicious and could be coming from a scum motivation - looking like you're scumhunting while going after easy targets.

[ThirtyFour]

Yeah, I'm getting pretty emotional right now because I'm angry at myself for sucking at mafia. When I say I'm sorry, my intention isn't to get you to trust me - I honestly have no idea how to do that right now - I'm honestly sorry for sucking.

[ThirtyFour]

Akane, what do you think about Parama?

[ThirtyFour]

Can you please not dismiss my genuine apology over a genuine mistake as throwing a pity party when I'm obviously desperate!? That's not making this easier for me.

I said why I think Parama was suspicious already. Because he really should have realized Bins was voting Not_Mafia further and because he put Flames at L-2 on page 2 over a single post and refused to give a reason when I asked him for it. I can't really think about more until I've calmed down.

[ThirtyFour]

Why are you leaning town on him?

[ThirtyFour]

Yeah, I think Parama is fine now. I'm trying to calm down. I'm not sure if I can. You might have to look for a replacement.

[ThirtyFour]

I don't know if I can forgive myself for making every possible mistake in the game. If I don't come back here soon you should probably look for a replacement.

Not in the best state too think much at the moment, but Not_Mafia looks town to me.

[ThirtyFour]

Yeah, I just realized that was stupid. I'll try to do that.

[ThirtyFour]

Will be back tomorrow.

[ThirtyFour]

Sorry, coming back isn't working...

@ Mod: Replace me, please.