Mini 1601: B_E's Mind Mafia ABANDIFIED

[dybeck]

Odds are, of course, like most Day 1s, we'll find the majority of the scum among the lurkers.

[T S O]

Spoiler: Fat_Tony

Again, not much content, but him calling Csareo's first post bad is a good start. Still though, null.

Spoiler: PMysterious

2 posts, neither of which contain any real information. Dead null.

Spoiler: Kid A

Again, not many posts, but I hate them all. He calls Riddleton scum, then forms a really REALLY tenuous link to Csareo and then suddenly becomes okay with Csareo's lynch. His activity is also shit. Null-scum.

Spoiler: OkaPoka

He replaced ABR, who seemed to think NicCage was scum, and that was all he posted.

I haven't seen enough of him to form a read outside of null, but I don't like him calling Beast scum. Null.

Spoiler: dybeck

The first really alignment-indicative thing I can find him doing #45, where he calls Csareo for scum for "starting an RVS wagon and jumping off when it built momentum and before its target was pressurised." Csareo is scum for many things, but this really isn't one of them. Being the first vote on an RVS wagon isn't suspicious or pressurising to scum-Csareo in the slightest. Worse, he uses this as a justification for voting Csareo and conveniently gets on the wagon with the most momentum. I don't like that at all.

In post #66, he calls Aegor town for admitting a plan he had involving a Day Cop. I don't agree with this, but I don't think it makes him scum either. He supports town speculation in #146, which I'm not mad about either, but it's pretty minimal really. He goes from #146 to #397 without posting any content at all, which is shit, but makes a wall in #397 to catch-up.

Riddleton's gone through the points on Csareo, which are really fence-sitty, and I'm not going to bother repeating his words on that. My main problem, apart from Csareo, is that dybeck appears to be scumreading Elias, BC, Csareo, Aegor and Ythill. That's ridiculous. He also votes Aegor, despite Aegor being his only townread early-game.

There's nothing in dybeck's ISO that particularly makes me townread him, there's no really town aligned motivation either. I'm not going to crucify him about Csareo because I was feeling that "two-minds" about Csareo myself, but it's not a towntell either and coupled with other stuff I dislike, I'm concluding dybeck is scum.

Spoiler: Beastcharizard

Beast's first post is a reaction to Csareo's #14, which he hated. I also hated it, so townpoints both for sharing my opinion and aggressively stating it. He forms decent early reads and puts his vote down early with no wishy-washiness. Again, town.

#210 is accurate in some parts and not in others. His first point is really good. His second point is also quite decent. However, it's like he supplements his observations with other accusations which I don't agree with. Case in point, him accusing Ythill of cross-bussing and then backing out. That's pretty damn rare. I also don't see any real pretext for it happening here. I still like #210 as a post, a lot. I just don't agree with some bits of it.

I actually didn't realise just how strong a townread Beast is of mine until now. He shows paranoia against Elias, but it's not scum paranoia at all. It's real town paranoia. I like other stuff of his, like how he openly states he's town as fuck. There's nothing else in Beast's ISO which makes me think he could be scum, apart from one thing. His urge to end the day early. I don't really know why he was so eager to shut discussion down.

Nonetheless, Beast is definitely one of my strongest townreads. Good reads, combined with town motivation and activity, lead me to conclude Beast is town.

Reads on half the game. Most of them are the inactives, but as the list goes down, the content gets larger.

I might get more done tonight, but it's more likely to be tomorrow.

[Fat_Tony]

I've been really lazy I'm afraid and I haven't caught up yet, really sorry about that. On the plus side it's a 3-day weekend coming up so I will have plenty of time then.

Apologies again.

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: pmmysterious

maybe some pressure will force him to post

[T S O]

I think he's just completely inactive, Oka.

[T S O]

His last post on the site was here, 4 days ago, so you're pretty much wasting your time.

[OkaPoka]

The number of replacements is truly annoying. We should restart.

[Riddleton]

You really missed the main point of the post, though, which was that the actions in response to Csareo's wagon, which has been the main talking point of the day so far, give more away about who's scum than Csareo's actions themselves..

I'm aware. I wasn't addressing your case on Aegor in that post though.

I've never understood how ambivalence strikes so many people as a scumtell.

Town is not going to get anywhere if people are going to be ambivalent and such. You may as well no lynch if you

really

want to be neutral.
A player isn't going to be any use to town if all they do is contemplate everything but yet form no solid opinion.
I think most people should at least have some opinion of Csareo either way at this stage in the game.

Odds are, of course, like most Day 1s, we'll find the majority of the scum among the lurkers.

Yeah, that is true. There's usually at least one lurker scum during D1.

[Riddleton]

Also

TSO

, I'll do some reads now if you want. Who would you like me to comment on first?

[T S O]

Probably Ythill or Elias. I'll be interested to see your take on them.

[Aegor]

Just saw that Aegor answered my question and it confirms my suspicion about him. See posts #253, 258, 277, & 279. Aegor voted Kid and then, after asked why he voted, ISO'd to make sure it was valid. Seems more scum than town. Although I've had Aegor as town so... meh.

What? I ISOd Kid A before I voted.

I don't get the Kid A wagon; I'm scumreading him, but the majority of votes seem to be to get a wagon, not a lynch. If you tell the guy they're just pressure votes, you're defeating the entire point of your vote.

My vote is for a lynch. He is useless and probably scum, and just beetlejuiced.

[Burning_Earth]

Official Vote Count

Kid A

(3): Aegor, Elias_the_thief, Riddleton

Aegor

(2): dybeck, hephaestus

Riddleton

(2): Kid A, Csareo

Csareo

(1): Ythill

dybeck

(1): beastcharizard

PMysterious

(1): OkaPoka

Not Voting

(3): Fat_Tony, T S O, PMysterious

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Also PMysterious is now shinobi

EDIT: And Csareo is now Aneninen

[Aneninen]

Hi everyone, I'm working but catching up soon.

Coo-coo!

[Burning_Earth]

(expired on 2014-08-29 02:38:59) is the deadline btw

[hephaestus]

Anen, you joined after all! Good to have you man

[hephaestus]

Hope this means you're feeling better!

[Shinobi]

Rereading.

[Aneninen]

So, catching up. (And yes, Hephaestus, fortunately I feel better now though still not 100%)

Part 1 (because it would be the Wall of China if I wrote everything in one single post)

Spoiler:

Csareo, 14 – Eeeeeeeeeeewwww! I see I have just chosen a "perfect" slot to replace in. Frankly, I would have voted for this slot too if I had been here. Riddleton, I 100% agree your reactions there. And 35 WTF! I hereby distance myself from my predecessor.

Dybeck, Hephaestus, 48, 51 – I think the RVS phase is totally random. Not only because of the votes (whether there are quick wagons, for example) but also because of the players' reactions. Sometimes there's only fluff, sometimes the first viable (or viable-looking) cases start forming themselves. Sometimes a WTF dominates the whole RVS phase and I think the latest happened here, due to my slot. (By the way, Aegor's 38 seems to be a silly joke for me now. It might change later but I consider it a null.)

Ythill, 58 – a scumread on Riddleton without a case and a votechange? FoS that! T S O noticed the same later, in 106. (Ythill's answer arrived in 114.)

Aegor, 63 – DAFUQ! Were you kidding or WIFOMizing? How exactly was this post pro-town??? FoS that too!

Ythill, 70 – Wait-oh! Your read on Csareo had changed quickly. And you still didn't posted anything about Riddleton. Your other scumread. FoS-squared. Riddleton also FoS-es Ythill in 75.

Ythill, 121, and many other posts from others – If it is not written in the setup, I automatically assume there is NO Daytalk. Unless I skimmed it over, it hasn't been mentioned in this game. So...
By the way, I think Daytalk-speculation may produces WIFOMs but it's also a source of information. Eg. if someone's gameplay changes quickly or if an unexpected wagon emerges very fast, Daytalk may be an explanation for that. However, scums can also use the same speculation for WIFOMizing the game and bad gameplay or misreads can lead to mislynches too... so, it may or may not be useful, just as Nightkill analysis or many other things. I liked eg. 146 from dybeck about this topic.

Hephaestus, 127 – ? I think that wasn't a claim or a fake-claim. See above!

UNVOTE: – I'm not voting until I finished reading. I'm not giving a list about my reads either.

Aaaaaand, hi again, Tony! I hope you're scum again and THIS time I can beat you. Revenge is sweet!!! (Just kidding. You were great in that game. ^_^)

[Aneninen]

Part 2

Spoiler:

S O, 152 – you're right. Sometimes players interpret things in the same way. How exactly would that phenomenon be scummy? ^_^

Aegor, 166 – and I still dislike votes without zero content about cases. FoS again. I don't think ABR's vote for you afterwards was an OMGUS, he might have had the same reason as I've mentioned here for it. Aegor, 176, oh, nonononono, that doesn't make me forget about your former vote! FoS-squared, because you wrote "Not feeling the Csareo wagon." 10 posts before.

190 – Hi, Elias ! ^_^ Your reads, 196, let's see. ...uhhh that didn't contain too much content. Even I have managed to salvage more out of the early posts and I'm not a genius... minor-FoS.

Beast-char-izard, hi there but 205 – is that all? No thoughts, no cases, no nothing, merely going after the easiest lynchable player? That's not scumhunting. FoS! 210 is an answer for Ythill, on the first sight it seems to be viable, on the other hand.

Ythill, 215 – I liked your response to Beast.

Beast, 217 – as if we had sure scumreads on Day1. Oh, come on!

Aegor, 218, 222 – you're the top scumread now. How exactly the former post made sense in this situation? (without any content given and without any case presented). The latter one was a buddy-ing, in my opinion. FoS-nth-powered.

The 237–... part is a minor townread on T S O, Riddleton and Ythill. They wanted to make the game move which I consider townplay.

Ythill, 259 – going after an easy lynch? (On the other hand, I admit, he could have done this 245698 times before. Perhapss a null-tell?)

Elias, 260 – something disturbs me here but I can't get it. A mere intuition.

Riddleton, 269 and other posts – I see your point but, I strongly hope you're going to change your mind about this slot soon. For obvious reasons, you know. ^_^

Beast, 272 and 270 – hmmm... T S O seemed to be genuine for me so far...

280, 281, Elias – I liked this one. Gave me town-vibes. But, 292: do you wish to move on to Day2 or do you wish to gain more information during this Day? It seems to be inconsistent for me!

Kid A, 295 – ??? Lurking all the time and jumping in for announcing an intent? This kind of gameplay is seriously anti-town in my opinion!

307 –

I confirm that claim.

I disagree with his posts nearby (more precisely, I must disagree with almost all of his posts), but since the claim happened, he left me no other choice. To everyone who were, are or had been on that wagon: I understand you, his gameplay was incredibly terrible.

Elias, 310 – I super-agree with you here!

Beast, 313 – yet another FoS. How exactly this "reasoning" helps the town?

T S O 324 – good point, very good point. So far you're the towniest here.

[T S O]

Beast, 272 and 270 – hmmm... T S O seemed to be genuine for me so far...

I've only skimmed the thread today and I'll be actually looking at it tonight, along with finishing my reads, but I just wanted to point out that Beast wasn't talking about me there, he was talking about Elias.

[Shinobi]

I'll continue my reread at a later time. I don't really feel like I'm getting much out of it because I feel particularly disconnected from this game. I'm kind of aware of the wagons but I'm having trouble looking for the motivations of the earlier votes/moves right now. For the moment, I'm going to focus on something else that's been bugging me.

Oka, I want you to answer several questions for me:

1) Why is it that you feel that your vote on someone that isn't around, and then explaining that it's a pressure vote, is a good use of your time?
2) Why is it that, after it was explained to you that PM wasn't even on-site anymore, you kept your vote on this slot? Your entire purpose of voting this slot was to get information out of a player that wasn't posting, but then it was explained that you weren't going to get any. Why keep your vote here? There were two major wagons in Csareo and Kid A, and you've ignored both of them in favor of sitting on your hands and making useless posts like #431 and such.
3) What are your opinions on Kid A and Csareo/Aneninen?

VOTE: OkaPoka

The sooner you answer these questions, the better.

[Shinobi]

Actually, I'm going to move my vote.

UNVOTE: Oka
VOTE: Aegor

Several questions I have for you, sir:

1) Why is beetlejuicing a scumtell? Do you honestly believe that someone being useless makes them 100% scum? Why are you focusing on someone supposedly useless like Kid A, who has claimed an intent to hammer/lynch (I still don't even know if Csareo was at L-1 or not, lol) whereas someone like OkaPoka has quite effectively done nothing?
2) Why don't you like the Csareo wagon? You said you didn't like it multiple times but then voted him anyway, and then backed off again and never explained why at any point.
3) Why is it that Riddleton is an

FoS

for you? You said that Csareo is low-hanging fruit, so I'm assuming that you don't think that he's actually scummy despite saying some scummy things (which is what you said later on in your ISO). You've never explained why any of this is, and then turned around and voted Csareo anyway. So what Riddleton was saying had merit, but then it didn't because...Reasons.

I need to know what those reasons are.

[Aneninen]

Part 3

Spoiler:

Riddleton, 331 – is that all about your reads after 14 pages? That's not much.

Haephaestus, 333 – this gives me town-vibes. He seems to be a player who

wants

to scumhunt and who is a bit annoyed because the game is not moving.

Elias, 335 – if I interpret your post right, you're advocating a policy lynch here. In my opinion, policy lynches don't help the town at all. On the other hand, I like your response in 338. And good vote in 346. He needs to be pressurized for sure after his previous posts (including that intent and the lurking). But 355... what do you want after all? Oh My Gods, Elias, it's so hard to read you!

Beast, 350 – and why exactly do you want to stop that wagon. Is it possible that we have a Kid A / Beast scumteam here? FoS! Also, the vote in 359. Yet another FoS.

372, 374 – hi, Tony and hi, OkaPoka! 376 – yes, Beast is scummy. But I'm town. (Though it's obvious that I'm saying this.) Not a thorough catch-up, on the other hand. (Or he's simply lazy to catchup? I mean 379.)

Ythill, 381 – aaand someone finally cares about Aegor. Good! And Kid A is not a bad wagon, I understand your vote. Oh, no, I don't. 386 – if you don't think he's scum why do you wagon him? You're another hard-readable player.

Dybeck, 397 – goodpost! FINALLY someone discovered the things I've found FoS about Aegor all the time! Aaaand, Beast, you shouldn't have posted that! What if we have an Aegor/Beast/Kid A scumteam?

Hephaestus, 413 – good vote but you should have brought up more things besides that very-very old stuff.

Riddleton, 423 – maybe he's unsure, just like others. Csareo's gameplay was terrible and everyone thought he was scummy... but, with the possibility of a terrible townplay some were hesitant to lynch him. I think that's the crux of the problem.

T S O 426 – a detailed list, even if I don't agree with everything. Your Dybeck/Beast read is the opposite of mine. One of us is misreading and I don't know which one of us.

Aegor, 435 – Have you ISO-ed Kid A? Olololololol! As if he had posted a lot.

After-post, T S O, 444 – you may be right. After all, I've just read 18 PAGES. It's not a surprise if I have misread things or skimmed over posts, sentences... And this goes for everything else too. Not because I don't want to take the responsibility for my text. Because it's very likely that I have made mistakes. I've read everything in 2–3 hours or so and I think it's still better than pick up random things and acting as if I had found the Holy Grail of the game.

And hi there, Shinobi! I like that you're catching up in reasonable-looking posts.

The readlist is coming in my next post.

[OkaPoka]

Im getting lazy in this game. I am waiting on kid a. Im playing in another game. But I will read these walls.

[Aneninen]

See my previous posts for details!

Probably town

T S O
Hephaestus

Lean town

Riddleton
Dybeck
Shinobi – just arrived but his posts give me town vibes

Null/Unsorted

Tony – no useful posts
Oka – not too many posts
Ythill – I can't decide. There are scummy and townish posts as well
Elias – I simply can't sort him. Similar case to Ythill but much harder.

Lean scum

Kid A

Probably scum

Beast
Aegor

According to Beast's certain posts (yet again, see my catching-up), it's possible that we have a Kid A/Beast/Aegor scumteam here. Kid A is a bit less scummy, it's possible that I've misinterpreted his lurking and his intent to hammer. As for Beast, T S O's read on him disturbs me because that means I may be wrong about him. Even if I strongly doubt it. So,

VOTE: Aegor – I strongly believe this is a good wagon.

Sorry for the long walls, here's a pigeon: