Open 563 - Jungle Republic (Night 5~)

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Bins

Bins have no place in the jungle as rubbish destroys the environment

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote.

I cant see town you

doing that even as a joke.

Btw. You guys are dumb. Stahp. See you tomorrow night.

Bolded implies you are familiar with him, and so you should know Reinoe does crazy stuff all of the time

[Not_Mafia]

Given how poorly Reinoe handles being wagoned early game (see LoTR) I doubt he'd do this as scum, esp. given the set up

[Not_Mafia]

He's not being wagoned as anything

[Not_Mafia]

One of those was himself and the other was someone who then called your vote on Reinoe bad. And the situations are different, he invited this 'wagon' by self voting, the other one was an unsolicited RVS wagon, which was then jumped on by scum after he claimed.

[Not_Mafia]

He has garnered 2 different wagons with 2 different motivation in 2 different situations therefore he is acting in 2 different ways.

[Not_Mafia]

He has garnered 2

different

wagons with 2 different motivation in 2 different situations therefore he is acting in 2 different ways.

Different as in; this is a wagon in the loosest sense of the word

[Not_Mafia]

That was a wagon* I should say

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: sns

[Not_Mafia]

At first I thought Reinoe was being overzealous in his vote but the more you talk the more I think you were jumping on opportunistically

[Not_Mafia]

More specifically, I could see the vote from town who wasn't as familiar with Reinoe's antics as I am, so I provided those links to see what you know of him and now I feel you're just trying to seem consistent for the sake of it

[Not_Mafia]

You have been dayvigged though

[Not_Mafia]

True but it's still quite disingenuous of you to say "I only get mislynched" when you probably would have been lynched in that game (And I was town and the one leading the wagon) had Maru not dayvigged you

[Not_Mafia]

I'm saying he would not actively

try

to get wagoned as scum, regardless of whether he actually ended up getting wagoned or not

[Not_Mafia]

It was Elmo

July 15 -

Open 563: Jungle Republic

Moderator:

mist7676

Status:

Day 1, 2 pages

Replacing:

Elmo TeH AzN

[Not_Mafia]

You should dayvig him before a replacement gets announced

[Not_Mafia]

True but it's still quite disingenuous of you to say "I only get mislynched" when you probably would have been lynched in that game (And I was town and the one leading the wagon) had Maru not dayvigged you

I didnt say that in the slightest. Thank you for the misrep.
"I always get lynched as town"
I wasnt town in that game and I didnt get lynched. What "could" have happened is irrelevent since there is no way for you to determine how events would have played out.
The statement I really made is actually false since I get NK'd sometimes but rarely. Mostly mislynched.

You got 3 votes and all of a sudden you start talking about how you get lynched as town. It's obvious what you were trying to say

[Not_Mafia]

I typically dont defend myself as town. Its pointless. When I die and flip then you guys will have something better than just "oh, he defended himself and didnt scumhunt".

I always get lynched as town for some reason I cant comprehend.

I never have as scum.

I dont see a difference in my play but apparently something is different. Or Reineo just sucks. Maybe both.

True but it's still quite disingenuous of you to say

"I only get mislynched"

when you probably would have been lynched in that game (And I was town and the one leading the wagon) had Maru not dayvigged you

I didnt say that in the slightest. Thank you for the misrep.
"I always get lynched as town"

I wasnt town in that game and I didnt get lynched. What "could" have happened is irrelevent since there is no way for you to determine how events would have played out.
The statement I really made is actually false since I get NK'd sometimes but rarely. Mostly mislynched.

So what point were you attempting to make by saying "I've never been lynched as scum" or in other words "I only get mislynched" (which coupled with your other meta defence) implying "I don't get caught like this as scum" when you gained 3 votes, when in fact, you have been caught as scum before and the only you reason you were not lynched is because you were dayvigged by someone who I'm 99% certain legitimately thought you were scum.

[Not_Mafia]

You're scum because of an opportunistic jump on Reinoe with no progression in your read, you originally said he would never do something like self voting as town, I showed he has, you then say he wouldn't do it at the start of the game, that is disputed, you then compare two entirely different situations and say he is scum for reacting differently, I point out they're different situations so your point is irrelevant.

The wagon then shifts to you and you say "I always get lynched as town for some reason I cant comprehend. I never have as scum." implying you wouldn't get caught as scum like this, not only is that irrelevant and not a reason for anyone to hop off, I point out it was disingenuous, so you are now misrepresenting the situation in that game. The wagon and dayvig on you were not RVS, we were playing Greater Idea and and you said in your second post that we the discards were meaningless, they were completely serious.

They were pushing for a wagon on me like you were. For an easy mislynch, but they didnt know I was a third party.

I was town in that game so this makes no sense and I'm pretty sure you're just flailing at this point

[Not_Mafia]

Hmmm. That wallpost felt town. Reinoe you are the ultimate wind up merchant.

VOTE: Shadedmelee

Has posted since RVS but not done anything besides a troll vote on bjc

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Paschendale

I don't like #231 either, reads as forced to me, like "oh whoops silly me"

[Not_Mafia]

You added nothing to what BJC said, there's no way you can characterize your post as any better than Shaded's and SNS's

So I'm thinking Pasch and Bulge are on opposite scum teams

[Not_Mafia]

I didn't mention my post as being exactly the same as the others no

I think Fuzzy summed things up quite well

VOTE: The Bulge
I like this more.
>admits to lurking
>says he'll post more
>comes back with an explanatory post followed by a vote on the current wagon

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you keep asking questions that you know the answer to?

[Not_Mafia]

So you're voting me because I said that this post...

VOTE: Paschendale

I don't like #231 either, reads as forced to me, like "oh whoops silly me"

Is not exactly the same as these posts...

Here you can have mine.

UNVOTE
VOTE PASCH

God what a pile of shit. Thanks for the omgus and jeez how can you call me obvious scum and vote a scum lean?

Can we drop the penis measuring and all vote pasch while singing kumbaya?

bjc is damn right about this. Come on people; everyone say: "Baa".

Do i have a double-vote?
VOTE: Paschendale

but ... wha?
VOTE: Paschendale

Nowhere did I call them any better or worse or say if they were alignment indicative, just that they were not exactly the same as mine, and your attempt to put them all in one boat and dismiss the rest of Fuzzy's read on you was bad.

[Not_Mafia]

Why am I the mindless sheep? Look at the three posts below mine.

[Not_Mafia]

Why am I the

mindless sheep

? Look at the three posts below mine.

And weren't you voting because I characterised my vote as different to the others?

Fixed your tags.

[Not_Mafia]

@Mod Could you fix that tag please?

[Not_Mafia]

Neither Fuzzy nor I nor anyone else has said that you were the only one sheeping. And was that we were voting "all you were saying there" or were you calling us all mindless sheep?

[Not_Mafia]

I think Bulge vs SNS is a pretty good example of the difference between scum flail and town flail but I don't wany the Pasch wagon to dismantle just yet

[Not_Mafia]

By which I mean. Pasch is someone who we need the pressure of a larger wagon on to get results. Bulge is not.

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you keep mentioning that?

[Not_Mafia]

@Fuzzy, when you say scum, do you mean mafia specifically or both factions generically?

[Not_Mafia]

What information is gained from my town-flip?

I hate stuff like this, but I find it comes from town the vast majority of the time. i'll probably take a look at Bulge's other games when I'm feeling less lazy.

[Not_Mafia]

I very much do not have any explaining to do. I gave honest reads. If pointing out the scummiest players makes you want to lynch me, then you're probably not trying to help town win. There is absolutely no way to rack up four votes that fast from the simple act of giving a read list and not have there be scum on it. Especially not when there's no actual analysis or reason given for those votes. BJC is definitely scum at this point, trying so damn hard to push a mislynch for no reason. I can definitely see Bulge as scum too for his current flailing. His "reason is my post". No explanation of what he objects to in it, just citing an apparently controvercial topic and picking a side to help contribute to a mislynch without being in a position to take any blame when I flip town. Bins vote is opportunistic as well.

But there is nothing you can pressure out of me, N_M. I haven't lied or been inconsistent (except perhaps that I didn't voice my suspicious of BJC enough from the beginning, despite reading him as scummy since the beginning), nor am I hiding anything. There's nothing to extract from me by voting for me.

Pasch vote was mainly for pressure and he, ironically, is town for this for reasons I can't go in to.

If Bulge does flip scum he's likely being bussed hardcore, that grew way too quickly, I just recently completed a JR game where I was mafia and me and my other partner hard bussed our partner d1 and it reminds me of that, if he does flip scum his partner(s) is/are probably on the wagon. His "Don't lynch me because I'm town"-esque stuff is silly, but I find it tends to come from town. I was going to meta-trawl him to see if he's prone to this kind of thing, but apparently he's embarrassed about his main or something and I've no real interest in breaching that

Back to here

VOTE: ShadedMellee

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you just believe people who say their not scum, the bulge one I understand, but why did you believe Bulge?

[Not_Mafia]

lol

Why do you just believe people who say they're not scum? The Bulge one I understand, but why did you believe bjc?*

[Not_Mafia]

@mod Laptop charger exploded, Limited Access for a few days

[Not_Mafia]

Shaded, the point was that you voted bjc without giving a reason too. So if voting without immediately giving reasons is a scum tell, wouldn't that mean you and bjc are both scum?

I did not tell it is a scum-tell. It is just not pro-town. Bad play.
I wanted bjc to explain his votes, and i meant to be allegorical there by mimicking him. Vote was just to draw attention of him, not because he was scummy.

So why not ask him to explain his votes?

[Not_Mafia]

Back on my laptop now. Still prefer Shaded lynch, Maru case is meh, he was definitely under-contributing but I'd rather see what the replacement has to say.

[Not_Mafia]

Literally half the playerlist is due prods. This is a sign we should be lynching someone.

[Not_Mafia]

So one day to go . Who are we actually lynching here?
My first preference is Titus. Then of the remaining wagons I guess Bulge

[Not_Mafia]

That looks like a very generic NK to me, d1 mafia lynch means wolves get a night or two where they don't need to try and hit mafia. We should be wolf hunting today but we should also be looking at how those how those wagons developed and try and identify mafia, as if we hit town today it mutually beneficial for us and the wolves to hit mafia and it allows us to direct their NK.

[Not_Mafia]

Stellar contribution

[Not_Mafia]

My naked vote contains more content than 521.

Did you, like, do any of that overnight or what? Who is scum?

Care to explain said vote?

And no I didn't, but I will be over the next couple of days

Despite them being by my scumreads, those last votes on Titus by Bulge and Bins didn't look very bussy. It's possible that the whole wagon was town.

@Mist: Can we get a final vote count for day 1?

Why did your mind jump to a whole town wagon instead of thinking they're wolves? And do you honestly think a whole town wagon d1 is realistic in a 7-3-2? That would literally mean scum is everyone off the wagon.

[Not_Mafia]

Scum certainly could. But I don't imagine that they would be more likely than town to do so. I think of more interest is that there was only one kill. Whoever stopped the other one, props!

You don't know the set up of an Open game you're in?

then, in no way, shape, or form, is analyzing a NK something scum does in thread. What would be the point of that? Voting me for that just shows that you're looking for a lynch without foundation. Find a good reason to vote me and then I'll acknowledge it a little more.

Have you really never seen scum NK commentary or are you feigning ignorance?

And why did you vote Splash over Titus/Shaded at the end of the day? Both wagons were on L-3 when you voted and your case on Shaded seemed to be better than your one on the Maru slot.

VOTE: Fuzzy

[Not_Mafia]

I wasn't around during the end of the day? Literally, Titus was lynched while I was asleep. I never got to state my opinion on the matter. Saying I would've voted Titus yesterday means nothing, so this point is null. I left my vote where I thought it should be. That's that.

You had 2 equal wagons you could have joined (Titus and Splashcloud) and I don't see why you joined this read...

Maru isn't just lurking. If he was, he wouldn't be saying anything. Instead, he's posting useless shit and actively hindering town.

over this read...

Secondly, these two posts are what make me think Shaded is scum.

He puts a vote on Pasch. Says he has no scum reads and IN HIS VERY NEXT POST, declares Pasch absolute scum. Now, I'm not saying pasch isn't scum, but you can't just go from >I have no scum reads to >This guy is definitely scum.

He was mindlessly sheeping and trying to get a lynch through while not actively contributing.

Especially as the Titus lynch had more support and was more likely to go through whilst we had such a stagnant town

[Not_Mafia]

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is Post 319. When he was nearing lynch, he said he could

guarantee

he was town. snscompt1 immediately took his vote elsewhere. snscompt1 could have been jumping off his buddy's wagon or he may have read that post the same way I just did--soft Town Seer claim. The problem with this? The Bulge is still alive. Night kill analysis is WIFOM and usually not worth the time it takes to type, but I think the wolves would have to be asleep at the wheel to not take that bait. Unless he's one of them.

Why would you point this out? Regardless of how obvious you found it, do you really think it's so unlikely the wolves didn't catch on to it that was worth potentially outing the seer?

Regardless Bulge needs to claim

[Not_Mafia]

The wolves mafia hunt in this most nights anyway depending on the numbers, that's nothing revolutionary. And leaving mafia in the game for the sake of it leads to murky endgame situations where we have to lynch a particular faction or lose.

Wolf lynch is still optimal today though, and this is our best candidate, would be too much wifom moving forward regardless.

VOTE: The Bulge

L-1

[Not_Mafia]

Would you risk being linked to him by resisting the inevitable lynch if you were his partner? None of the factions have any incentive to resist this lynch

[Not_Mafia]

I'll let Unsight respond but that case isn't as impressive as it seems to look to others and is largely window dressing, and Wicked's personal opinion of the "fake crumb" is largely meaningless when it's obvious a significant enough portion of the town are going to get hung up on it and why more people don't seem to be aware of why us extending out a lynch centered on someone crumbing our only PR is bad is beyond me.

If Bulge flips town it removes any future wifom of that crumb and hopefully redirects wolves kill to Fuzzy, but that possibility is dwindling more and more the longer this goes on and more of us figure out who the seer is. This lynch should have gone through 2-3 pages ago.

[Not_Mafia]

I think Not_Mafia is mafia because he likes to bus as scum and his support of the Shaded lynch looks like another bus.

Why does that look like a bus to you?

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you think Wicked is town if Bulge is town? I think he's scum regardless of the flip, Bulge's town flip just means I won't be sure as to which faction he is

[Not_Mafia]

Why do you think Wicked is town if Bulge is town? I think he's scum regardless of the flip, Bulge's town flip just means I won't be sure as to which faction he is

Since when have you scumread Wicked? Did I miss it? Oops.

Since his anti-town derailing of this lynch and unnecessary extending out of this day with discussion that is helping to make the identity of our only PR more and more obvious. I was hoping I'd wake up and this day would be over. Apparently not.

Because, contrary to what others are saying, I thought it was very well written.

That was a pretty damn strong post imo.

Do you think it's a strong case or is it just that it's "well written", I see nice formatting and buzzwords but look at the actual content, it's pretty much entirely dressing up null tells as scum tells (as Unsight pointed out), taking things out of context or misrepresenting them, or just incorrect in places.

[Not_Mafia]

So vote him. You summed this whole thing up yourself here

everyone keeps assuming he's destined to flip WW

[Not_Mafia]

Why is Desp wolf and not just scum? And you're saying this is a shit lynch because there was no resistance, when I've pointed out why it should have gone through with no resistance and how this says nothing about the wagon itself. Bulge will be lynch fodder and a sticking point for every day he's still here, and we could have assumed a mafia kill like 4 pages ago, instead we're splitting wagons multiple times for no apparent reason.

[Not_Mafia]

I am not getting into an argument about IIoA, even though I don't entirely agree with your comments regarding it. That's a semantics/naming argument, it's completely irrelevant, and I've explained my specific issue. Plus I am mildly insulted: that you would accuse me of using a scum tell I don't understand when I have more experience than you OR you suggest I would deliberately distort a scum tell believing I could get away with it.

Cheap way to dismiss the issue by calling it "semantics"

Wicked's personal opinion of the "fake crumb" is largely meaningless when it's obvious a significant enough portion of the town are going to get hung up on it

That's ridiculous. That is appeal to majority and a terrible thing to resort to. This happens to me all the time- I am town, a bandwagon forms on someone, I townread the guy getting bandwagon'd and try to prevent their lynch, nobody listens to me and I get flak for not having the same invalid perspective, the guy flips town. I have a tendency to read well, once I played in a game where I was opposed to three major bandwagons (they were all town), that was a while ago but in the Shadedscum game I linked to I town read the day 2 lynch and despite countless arguments in his defense nobody freaking listened to me. Don't give me that "oh well everyone else thinks it's a crumb so your opinion doesn't mean anything".

So you've townread major wagons before? So? We all have. Here you've just pretended a case doesn't exist and never bothered to address any of the points against him other then "well I don't think it was a crumb". More of you padding out your posts with complete fluff

and why more people don't seem to be aware of why us extending out a lynch centered on someone crumbing our only PR is bad is beyond me.

If Bulge flips town it removes any future wifom of that crumb and hopefully redirects wolves kill to Fuzzy, but that possibility is dwindling more and more the longer this goes on and more of us figure out who the seer is. This lynch should have gone through 2-3 pages ago.

I DO NOT BELIEVE BULGE CRUMBED. Even if he flips scum I will believe that. That's why I'm trying to prevent the lynch. In general if I see a bandwagon that I don't like I try to prevent it. And I don't care about wifom, I want a scum lynch not a wifom-removal lynch.

Okay? You are not the only person in this game. And you completely sidestepped my point about helping to out the PR.

Why does that look like a bus to you?

-Almost never addressed Shaded despite voting him twice.
-You hardly justified your vote on him despite that being your strongest preference towards the end of the day.
-Very little effort to actually discern his alignment despite voting him twice, as if you already knew.

This point is fair. I had attempts to engage him, not ones he ever really reciprocated, my sitting on the wagon was lazy.

This merits its own post, especially the second paragraph.

Since his anti-town derailing of this lynch and unnecessary extending out of this day with discussion that is helping to make the identity of our only PR more and more obvious.

This is bs, and I am really irritated by your craplogic here. If I'm town (which I am) and I think Bulge is town (which I do), then it is absurd of you to say that my derailing is anti-town - you just can't fathom the concept of someone opposing your precious Bulge bandwagon, any opposition is scum in your eyes. The extending is perfectly necessary if I'm town trying to protect a town read (which I am).

You are completely misrepresenting what I'm saying here, never have I said "lol disagrees scum"

And you cannot be serious about the PR comment. Wasn't Unsight the one that said in the first place, "Bulge might be crumbing seer here" - you are so convinced that my case against him was bad and blame me for discussion that can out the pr yet you follow the bandwagon that is based on Unsight's initial unjustified rolefishing. And last I checked, you were the one that asked Bulge to claim. I personally have no more of an idea who seer is than I did three days ago so your assertion is baseless. Then again, I don't look over the thread for pr crumbs so I honestly don't care about the risk as it is.

Yes I'm serious, I don't believe Unsight was rolefishing and I'm not responding to rest of your post for obvious reasons, you can call me scum for this if you want but we both know what you're doing

I think you are trying to rush a mislynch, appealing to the belief that it'll save the seer when the seer is in no apparent danger AND the lynch is much more valuable.

TL;DR - Not_Mafia gives me flak for trying to extend discussion that could potentially out the seer. But note that Unsight is the one that initially mentioned that Bulge could have crumbed seer and Not_Mafia is the one that asked Bulge to claim - they aren't interested in seer preservation.

There is no risk of outing the seer by my wagon derailing effort.

I figured out who the seer was from your counter wagoning, so yes there is and was a risk

[Not_Mafia]

I just don't like how Wicked keeps saying TheBulge is completely clear

I never said Bulge was completely clear. Please get your facts straight. I am

pretty sure

that he is town, regardless of his alignment I think the single point against him is entirely invalid.

Riddleton you are too easily influenced. You first posted after my Unsight case and said that I'd convinced you. Then Unsight and Not_Mafia comment and suddenly you think only one of my five points is good, it now seems that you've abandoned my case.

Unsight and Not_Mafia cannot be trusted. Consider this order;
-Day 1 and 2 occur with Unsight and Not_Mafia paying little to no attention to me.
-I call Unsight and Not_Mafia scum in my Unsight-case post.
-Unsight and Not_Mafia suddenly suspect me.
I can't see how you'd trust them after all that. Obviously they'll both dislike my post and obviously they'll both have counter arguments because they don't want to be called scum, nobody does.

What was the point of this? Discredit a player and then say "Not_Mafia and Unsight are OMGUSing, it doesn't matter that they have valid points it's OMGUS"

[Not_Mafia]

Now that I'm on my laptop...

I'll start by clarifying something you are all obviously too tunnel-minded to understand:

I never fucking claimed Seer.

The way Wicked explained it is correct. It was a god damn wording issue. If that is the basis of the case against me (hint: it is), then either scum is getting way too stubbornly opportunistic or this town is incompetent. I think the former is more likely.

Continuing to ignore that the case on you goes beyond that, if you're on your laptop you saw Pasch's post

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is Post 319. When he was nearing lynch, he said he could

guarantee

he was town. snscompt1 immediately took his vote elsewhere. snscompt1 could have been jumping off his buddy's wagon or he may have read that post the same way I just did--soft Town Seer claim. The problem with this? The Bulge is still alive. Night kill analysis is WIFOM and usually not worth the time it takes to type, but I think the wolves would have to be asleep at the wheel to not take that bait. Unless he's one of them.

Why would you point this out? Regardless of how obvious you found it, do you really think it's so unlikely the wolves didn't catch on to it that was worth potentially outing the seer?

Regardless Bulge needs to claim

What the fuck is this shit and why did nobody pick up on it? First of all, I don't buy the "I caught the soft-claim but didn't want to point it out to scum" bullshit. Second of all, what you say later completely contradicts yourself.

"How dare you draw attention to our soft-claimed seer! Shame on you! ... By the way, potential seer, you should definitely claim now, yea."

I'll let Unsight respond but that case isn't as impressive as it seems to look to others and is largely window dressing, and Wicked's personal opinion of the "fake crumb" is largely meaningless when

it's obvious a significant enough portion of the town are going to get hung up on it

and why more people don't seem to be aware of why us extending out a lynch centered on someone crumbing our only PR is bad is beyond me.

If Bulge flips town it removes any future wifom of that crumb and hopefully redirects wolves kill to Fuzzy, but that possibility is dwindling more and more the longer this goes on and more of us figure out who the seer is. This lynch should have gone through 2-3 pages ago.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you think my wagon is town-driven, or at its least "a significant portion of the town".

What is the contradiction? The situations are completely different.

So vote him. You summed this whole thing up yourself here

everyone keeps assuming he's destined to flip WW

I addressed this before but I want to stress again how shitty this post is. Not to mention how shitty the wagon is. I will be legitimately surprised if there is any more than one townie on my wagon.

Can we make a Not_Mafia wagon happen? I'd also be down to lynch Unsight or Desp. Maybe Riddleton based on recent bullshit. I'll give him a read next.

PEDIT: Aw no N_M wagon Promise me it will happen tomorrow.

So basically you want to lynch anyone on your wagon. Because it's scum driven because what? You refuse to address the case on you?

[Not_Mafia]

Just read this;

Bulge will be lynch fodder and a sticking point for every day he's still here, and

we could have assumed a

mafia

kill like 4 pages ago

, instead we're splitting wagons multiple times for no apparent reason.

Are you a werewolf? Because I thought we were lynching werewolves today.

Yes kill, not lynch, pushing this as a slip is ridiculous.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm up for lynching Not_Mafia if two other people are (besides you and I), that's the only scenario where it'd be worth it for me to switch.

Not_Mafia wants to lynch you for a crumb that isn't even a crumb because he's afraid that we'll out the seer. Even though Unsight brought up the crumb and Not_Mafia asked you to claim. Meanwhile Not_Mafia

wants to lynch mafia it seems

. And I am getting flak for not following the popular opinion.

Yeah I never said this, I clearly said and kill as in NK and one look at the wagon I'm on would have told you this so I don't believe this was a genuine mistake

[Not_Mafia]

@Wicked: As much as you don't like the votes on Bulge based on the claim accusation, you haven't really ever addressed my case on him. He almost exclusively defends himself, doesn't contribute to finding scum, and his vote on Titus did not look like one where the outcome was unknown. That wasn't a compromise vote. That wasn't a vote he genuinely believed in. That was a vote that was cast against a known enemy.

Are you saying everyone else on the Titus wagon wasn't sure of their vote? Sounds like a pretty awful wagon to me.

You spend all this time screaming about their being no case and then this is your response?

[Not_Mafia]

I'm saying it's a shit lynch because there's no good argument for it that I can see and everyone's still acting like Bulge is conf scum. Lynch Bulge, NM, go ahead, I'm not attempting to defend against the wagon, I just don't want to be a part of it.

And I don't see Desp scum for reasons that he voted Splash vs Shaded. I don't think he'd just not bus his partner in that situation.

His votes were for poor and unfounded reasons. His contributions have not helped find scum at all and his day 1 play, especially his vote, looked like trying to fly under the radar. The last two votes on day 1, that being his and yours, both looked like this. They had all the trappings of votes cast by people who know exactly the outcome that a lynch will have (or at very least, know that it won't be their team). I can see why you're defending Bulge, since everything that implicates him also implicates you, but his general play has been worse, so he's on the block today instead of you.

Are you his teammate or are you just defending yourself by proxy?

@Wicked: As much as you don't like the votes on Bulge based on the claim accusation, you haven't really ever addressed my case on him. He almost exclusively defends himself, doesn't contribute to finding scum, and his vote on Titus did not look like one where the outcome was unknown. That wasn't a compromise vote. That wasn't a vote he genuinely believed in. That was a vote that was cast against a known enemy.

Bulge is responding to these in full, no excuses. Wicked as well if his V/LA permits but I'm not going to push it for obvious reasons.

[Not_Mafia]

Exactly, which is why his 'cases' are hollow and just throwing out misreps and buzzwords and seeing what sticks

Also

@mod Requesting VC

[Not_Mafia]

It makes me sad every time I don't see the words "night 2" in this thread title

@ Wicked This has now boiled down to you not believing me, why is it that you don't believe me? And I was trying to hint for a few pages that I had figured out who the seer yet you seemed oblivious to this, so it came down to me having to explicitly say it.

Bulge has come in attacking Desp for responding to his questions whilst still flat out ignoring Pasch's case on him.

@ Desp are you aware you aren't actually voting Bulge?

@Mod Please prod or replace Splashcloud, they have not posted in nearly 5 days

[Not_Mafia]

Unvote

Do what you need to do but we're lynching Bulge today.

[Not_Mafia]

Finally

[Not_Mafia]

If you think Wicked has any chance of dying you haven't been paying attention.

[Not_Mafia]

and/or are conflating "defended me" with "town", if you can't see why the counterwagons were the scum pushes you're being willfully blind.

PEDIT: Probably. This is more for the benefit of those who might buy in to your OMGUSing if you do end up flipping town

[Not_Mafia]

Bulge was scum, he just happened to receive a town role pm

[Not_Mafia]

lolwut

VOTE: Desperado

I hated Wicked's push yesterday, and those are a pair of really poor investigative choices, bur I don't see why scum would CC that way

[Not_Mafia]

I thought it was Unsight and that Wicked had took the softclaim call out as PR tell and was trying to drive a wagon on him to draw out a full claim

[Not_Mafia]

Fuzzy was obvious mafia after the Shaded flip, the Unsight case was awful and is an example of someone not wanting to let go of their their pet read instead of making a investigative choice that would benefit town as a whole. Splash would at least be a useful not-wolf inno as the slot has been a giant ?, Riddleton was poor too though.

Either way it's the CC that matters more. I don't really want to get in to pointlessly attacking someone's play but yeah I'm frustrated with how our PR has played this.

[Not_Mafia]

Your mum is a dumbtell

[Not_Mafia]

Too late

[Not_Mafia]

I was just being facetious with my Bulge comment, it's nothing to take too seriously. And if you thought Unsight was trying to soft Seer then I understand your investigate on him. I was just frustrated in the moment as we're losing our seer and not really gaining anything from the results.

Firstly, only a werewolf would want to out the Seer. Secondly, Unsight is making too many assumptions here (that Bulge crumbed seer AND that scum would have noticed AND that scum would have nightkilled him if they thought he was seer) - the combination of weak assumptions here doesn't match the confidence that Unsight has in his belief that Bulge is a werewolf. Thirdly, Unsight completely ignores the rest of Bulge's play up until now despite calling him scum. This is the kind of accusation that says "I'm not a werewolf because I'm speculating about their nightkill, also lets all vote the potential seer!" and it's bothersome that he and Desperado are two of the major forces behind it.

This set off alarm bells for me, I found his interaction with the Bulge wagon odd but when you started talking about the assumptions he was making it made me think he was Seer softing and that you had thought this too and wanted to try and run him up and confirm, I still think the case was bad in general but I know now what loked like softing meant two very different things to us

[Not_Mafia]

I'd like to think you think better of my scumplay than to think I would start waving a flag around saying "I made this kill!" as my partner had just been outed

[Not_Mafia]

Lynching Wolf is ideal, lynching Fuzzy (99% mafia) is the safe option, not sure which road I want to go down yet, will have to see how confident I am in narrowing the wolf down

[Not_Mafia]

V/LA for the next few days due to personal reasons. This is LA not V but I can't tell how active I'll be exactly

[Not_Mafia]

I'd rather not WIFOM Desp's fake results like that. And If anything I think Desperado's partner was a likely inspect target as if his partner was doing well he would have had no reason to basically suicide just to out the Seer, he'd have just waited for the guilty on him. Also, I don't think he actually intended to win that 1v1 as if he did he would have faked a guilty on who he thought was the seer as that the only way the CC'er wouldn't automatically be believed over him.

Not_Mafia stated he had figured out who the seer was, and Unsight definitely was a seer kill. For him to come in the next day and say, "Yeah, I thought it was Unsight" is basic addition.

This is just such a simplistic argument. You think I wouldn't at least pull

something

out of my arse as scum? I know the whole "if I were scum" routine is annoying but that's honestly how I read the situation and I think someone else came to that conclusion

[Not_Mafia]

That's why I presented other reasons why Klick and Riddleton aren't WW other than Desp's fakeclaim.

Which were?

I have one town read and then one mafia read in Fuzzy but Riddleton's sudden aggression in pushing it makes me tentative but I still lean to Fuzzy with his interactioin with the Shaded and Maruchan wagons. So I feel like one of Fuzzy and Riddleton are mafia, and if one gets lynched today and flips town

the other should be the NK

if there is one.

VOTE: Fuzzy

[Not_Mafia]

What exactly gives you the credibility to direct NKs?

I don't even know how to respond to this to be honest. What's your problem with me saying my mafia read if you flip town, it's not like the wolf is beholden to what I say, if we mislynch today and then have a town NK, we lose.

Secondly, why would you rather keep a WW alive than have no NKs period?

Where have I said this?

[Not_Mafia]

What exactly gives you the credibility to direct NKs?

I don't even know how to respond to this to be honest. What's your problem with me saying my mafia read if you flip town, it's not like the wolf is beholden to what I say, if we mislynch today and then have a town NK, we lose.

Secondly, why would you rather keep a WW alive than have no NKs period?

Where have I said this?

You're trying to lynch your mafia read instead of hunting for WW's.

If we mislynch today, we lose, yes, but if we lynch WW, there's still a chance that we can win.

I have no problem with you having reads on people given certain circumstances, but I dont like the idea of you trying to direct NKs when we have no idea if you're town or not. If you were conf town, I'd have no qualms about it, but you're not.

I'm not confident in any wolf read to pursue it today, we went over this earlier in the day

[Not_Mafia]

And Pasch, there's also the way he joined the Splashcloud wagon day 1

I wasn't around during the end of the day? Literally, Titus was lynched while I was asleep. I never got to state my opinion on the matter. Saying I would've voted Titus yesterday means nothing, so this point is null. I left my vote where I thought it should be. That's that.

You had 2 equal wagons you could have joined (Titus and Splashcloud) and I don't see why you joined this read...

Maru isn't just lurking. If he was, he wouldn't be saying anything. Instead, he's posting useless shit and actively hindering town.

over this read...

Secondly, these two posts are what make me think Shaded is scum.

He puts a vote on Pasch. Says he has no scum reads and IN HIS VERY NEXT POST, declares Pasch absolute scum. Now, I'm not saying pasch isn't scum, but you can't just go from >I have no scum reads to >This guy is definitely scum.

He was mindlessly sheeping and trying to get a lynch through while not actively contributing.

Especially as the Titus lynch had more support and was more likely to go through whilst we had such a stagnant town

[Not_Mafia]

Personally I'd learn a lot from your flip

[Not_Mafia]

You have a point about the NK actually,

VOTE: Riddleton

At least one Riddleton and Fuzzy are mafia, leaning both with a bus from Riddleton, Pasch is town, Wolf is probably Bins or Splashcloud slot

[Not_Mafia]

Happy birthday though

[Not_Mafia]

Happy scumday. Vote Riddleton and make it a good one

[Not_Mafia]

What was your case on Riddleton again, NM?

You tell me. You're the one he's bussing

[Not_Mafia]

If you vote him I might rethink

[Not_Mafia]

[Not_Mafia]

Flippancy isn't a scumtell for me. I feel like you should know this.

[Not_Mafia]

Wow this game has ground to a halt...

6 people alive...little to no action....


guise pls

There's nothing stopping you guys generating content yourselves

[Not_Mafia]

Not the wolf
Bins don't lynch me
Don't lynch me
No more

[Not_Mafia]

Bins town
Pasch prob town but if scum is wolf
Riddleton scum
Fuzzy Mafia
klick/splashcloud who knows

[Not_Mafia]

The riddler

[Not_Mafia]

@Aegor. He'salive because we've been wolf hunting

[Not_Mafia]

@aegor Fuzzy is alive because wolf hunting

[Not_Mafia]

I will lynch Fuzzy or Riddleton

[Not_Mafia]

Because Fuzzy and Riddleton are safer lynches

[Not_Mafia]

I don't like your random aggression on Fuzzy today and you hopped off that wagon too easily so I think you were bussing + early sns stuff.

[Not_Mafia]

So you are scum?

No, but even if you are scumreading me there are safer lynches for today

[Not_Mafia]

I certainly wouldn't bus someone who is practically confirmed scum. I'm not an idiot (surprisingly)!

Just gonna leave this here

[Not_Mafia]

[Not_Mafia]

Problem: I do not think NM is a wolf as much as I think fuzzy is a maf.

[Not_Mafia]

My username is a lie

[Not_Mafia]

Your sig is creepy, I only just noticed it

[Not_Mafia]

Congrats mafia and thanks to Mist for hosting.

[Not_Mafia]

Being mafia in this set up is a lot of fun. I wasmafia last time I played this and it was probably my favourite game on this site.

[Not_Mafia]

Moral of the story: Kill Bins

[Not_Mafia]

When I play this set up as town I'm just gonna lynch biggest scum reads regardless of their alignment unless it's a potential endgame situation. A Fuzzy lynch probably would have led to town win down the line.

[Not_Mafia]

Wolf QT

We didn't do much.

I never got the dead QT link, assumed there wasn't one

[Not_Mafia]

I just stopped trying that last day, was too demoralised and felt no obligation to my partner, Bins stopping the Bulge lynch just cruising through started our downfall