Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Akane Kurashiki]

Yeah, I think Grib made the slot a lot townier just in his first few posts. Still a bit iffy due to the predecessor but I'd call him null-town for now.

I'm gonna have some thoughts from my reread in the next 12 hours or so, just have to deal with work stuff first.

[Grib]

Random read dump because I feel like it.

Spoiler: first read through

[8] - Grib

[9] - Jackel98
[2] - Akane Kurashiki

[3] - Quilford
[6] - Not_Mafia

[5] - Parama
[1] - Bins

[4] - Flames682
[7] - xRECKONERx

I had Jackel as my strongest townread for a reason I'm not sharing, but in hindsight the reason was...flimsy at best. Sadness.

Spoiler: presently

[8] - Grib

[3] - Quilford
[5] - Parama

[7] - xRECKONERx
[4] - yoncé/Flames682

[6] - Not_Mafia
[9] - Jackel98

[2] - Akane Kurashiki
[1] - Bins

I'd like Quil to post more, but I like him for town..

Bins/Akane scumteam?

I'm reasonably confident in my top three townreads, at least. No, I'm not townreading Reckoner because of his roleclaim. I was inclined to still think he was scum, but then I did some rereading.

[Bins]

those reads make me shaky

[Grib]

Cool.

Why? More words, more content, more fun. You are a liability at best and scum at worst. If you're town, stop wasting my time and town it up already.

[Grib]

Like. You see that reads list? That one a few posts up that I just put together? It's probably 100% wrong, and I don't give a fuck. As town, it's our job to take a stand now and reevaluate on the fly. Being wrong, whether it's one read or all of them, is inevitable if you're town. We don't have the luxury of knowing our teammates, but that shouldn't stop us from at least guessing.

I want you to give me a reads list, similar to mine, based on how you feel about the players right now, at this very second. Help us see where your head is at. It's page fifteen and your lack of reads at this point is completely unacceptable.

[Grib]

((Well obviously it can't be 100% wrong because I know I'm town, but you get what I mean.))

[Bins]

I have reads. I've said this about 50 billion times.

I'll make one it and I promise it'll be prettier. And colourcoded!

[Grib]

Yeah, you've said it, but you haven't shown it. You could say you have scales and an extra arm 50 billion times, what do I care?

Yay.

[Akane Kurashiki]

Ok, what

I can understand a few reads changing upon a re-read, but the difference between when you first came in and now is only a few pages and yet you've pretty much rearranged your entire reads list and are being deliberately vague about your reasons why? How is a reads list with no reasoning help town? If you're town it just helps tell scum who to kill without giving town ammo to evaluate your reasons for a read on their own, and if you're scum it lets you pretend to be taking stances and doing things without actually sticking your neck out all that much.

And are you sure you're not just shooting darts at a board and "reading" us based on where they landed? Because that's how it comes across.

I want to know what changed your mind so much on the reread and what your thought process was... a reads lists with vague reasons is almost as useless as no reads at all.

To get you started: What did Parama do that made him rise up from null to second highest town (besides yourself)? If your read on Reckoner changing has nothing to do with the claim, what was it? And maybe most importantly, what exactly did yonce do that made the slot go from 2nd highest scumread to flat null (especially since all he did was come in, misunderstand the rules, have the rules clarified for him, and then leave again)?

[Akane Kurashiki]

EBWOP: I double checked and you joined on page 9. So I slightly rescind the comment about joining recently, since I thought it was more like page 12. (Obviously I haven't gotten to that point in my reread...)

You should still explain yourself and answer the questions, though.

[Grib]

A question for town: is it usually considered towny or scummy to deliberately not ask about the placement (and rearrangement) of your own name on someone else's readslist?

I mean. I had Akane as a very high townread, and now she's practically dead last. And yet in her gimme-gimme string of questions, she fails to ask about herself, when she happens to be the most dramatic change on the list.

@Akane
I'll share more once Bins decides she wants to play. The Day isn't going anywhere for a while.

Something I will mention, because I'm such a pal: the first time I read the game, I was more concerned with skimming/catching up than trying to take e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g in at once. So. Take the first list for what it's worth (which isn't much).

[Not_Mafia]

I think the more pertininent issue is why you decided to post those lists in the first place. "Because I felt like it" is not an answer

[Grib]

For reactions. For questions. For content.

But mostly because I felt like it.

[Parama]

How is a reads list with no reasoning help town? If you're town it just helps tell scum who to kill without giving town ammo to evaluate your reasons for a read on their own, and if you're scum it lets you pretend to be taking stances and doing things without actually sticking your neck out all that much.

Yeah, this is pretty much factual stuff right here.

I like the way you're posting, Grib, but do one thing: Explain your Akane scumread, because I see nothing towards her in your ISO (and there's plenty towards Bins, aside from her problems being blatant for everyone to see)
Though I do find it odd too that Akane didn't ask about herself since her move is the most drastic on the entire list (and unexplained)
No, Grib, you can't dodge questions like that, give a bit of reasoning for some of the shifts; doesn't have to be a lot at this point, but something is better than nothing

[Akane Kurashiki]

I'd rather ask Grib questions that I think will help me figure out his alignment, especially in relation to other people. For me, watching someone interact with and thinking about others tells me more than how someone interacts with me, because when it's about me I tend to get biased and it clouds my reads.

I also want to avoid leading into an argument where all I'm doing is defending myself because then I'm doing that instead of focusing on scumhunting.

Other people can ask for his read on me if they want (like Parama did) and maybe they'll get something out of it, but for me it's just not beneficial.

[Akane Kurashiki]

I mean, if you'll notice, I think I completely ignored Reck's vote on me earlier on in the game and he didn't give a reason either

[Grib]

I’ve been quietly sitting on the idea of scum!Akane only for a little while. Normally I don’t try to bother finding multiple scum at once because I just end up confusing myself with possible wine scenarios, but I was really bored. Really bored. I’m gonna go all out with this post, because I need something to do.

First, my thoughts on Akane via her ISO (featuring special guest, Bins!):

Spoiler: Akane

4: Her first vote is for Bins. Innocent enough. Her advocating on saving the doors is only bad if it’s proven the scums’ kills are restricted to rooms/groups.

12: Switches her RVS for...some reason. 34 questioned her on this as well.

20: Claims she switched her vote because she liked Bins’ reaction to her RVS. Which. I dunno, feels really fake. Akane didn’t ask anything particularly difficult, there isn’t really much to be nervous about in this context.

Of course this could just be waved away with “oh it was just a random vote who cares?” but hhh.

81: This is the first post that tipped me on a reread, after I’d been posting for a couple pages. She criticizes 34 for unvoting someone who was at L-1 (what?). And then she goes on about how he should have voted for someone else, or laid out some reads -- in fact, nearly half of the second paragraph could apply presently to Bins. I’m still waiting for Akane to catch up and explain her gut townread on her.

105: Dismisses 34’s above posts because AtE. I only find it scummy because she dismissed all three posts that way. She could have at least addressed the parts of the posts that weren’t AtE.

108: Says 34 is gunking up the thread with his emotions. Bins has been gunking the thread with pure void, but it’s totes okay when she does it.

142: Not gonna lie, this is my favorite part. Akane asks Bins why she still has her vote parked on NM, and asks for her reads. Bins replies with “no reason” (and doesn’t unvote, even though she just stated her vote is dead and useless) and that she’ll “address her reads tomorrow” (she in fact does the opposite of that, by unvoting AND saying she has nothing right after Quil posted a case against Reckoner).

Akane of course addresses this steaming pile of bullshit in her next pos--oh. Wait. She doesn’t readdress this. Ever. In fact, I think this is actually the last time Akane has ever spoken directly to Bins.

Of course everyone is guilty of letting Bins cruise, except Parama, I guess. It’s just more damning for Akane because she’s the one who asked and didn’t follow up.

204: Asks NM for a read on Bins. Because? Who knows. I'm guessing she's trying to justify her gut townread here, by seeing if anyone else is townreading her.

304: Basically calling Reckoner conf!scum. “1% chance that it’s true”? Please.

((Also, just kidding -- Akane does talk to Bins in 310, but it’s a mechanics question so it doesn’t really count.))

Akane then engages Reckoner in some bullshit meta/identity argument, clogging up the thread and being a distracting mess.

And now we’re mostly back to the present. That was fun.

And then other questions:

Spoiler: Parama

My townread of Parama mostly stems from how I feel about the way he went about putting someone at L-1 so early, and how he responded to Jackel pointing it out. His posts are very pro-town and I like his responses/interactions.

The only thing about him that’s been bothering me is his apparent lack of knowledge of how his ability worked earlier in the thread, but I can’t see how that would be alignment indicative so eh.

Spoiler: Reckoner/Flames

I like town!Reckoner for lack of self-awareness in 18. This post reads genuine as a townie who is sure the game will be over long before the 9 Day limit with so few players. It's safe to assume scum know exactly how their NK will function w/r/t the door mechanic. Admittedly, that's all I have for him, because the quality of his posts just go down from there.

To be honest, for a lot of my reads I assume that if a person is scum, they wouldn't do their partner the disservice of, say, throwing a huge fit and drawing so much attention to yourself. Or hardcore lurking out the game, which is a (or rather, the) reason I'm townreading Flames. Lurking is a little difficult to work with, unless it's a huge scumtell for the person.

Of course these are subject to change, but I'm perfectly okay with them for the moment.

I need a nap.

[Parama]

@Akane: How does his case on you *not* help determine his alignment? If you're town, then you know his case is wrong, regardless of his alignment; shouldn't be too difficult to look into where he's coming from based on what the case itself is like, no?
I'm going to avoid commenting on Grib's Akane case until Akane's given a response.

[Parama]

actually okay, no. A big chunk of your arguments seem to hinge on Bins being scum, yes?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Grib

I like town!Reckoner for lack of self-awareness in 18. This post reads genuine as a townie who is sure the game will be over long before the 9 Day limit with so few players. It's safe to assume scum know exactly how their NK will function w/r/t the door mechanic. Admittedly, that's all I have for him, because the quality of his posts just go down from there.

Why are you retroactively posting a town case on someone who claimed a confirmable role?

To be honest, for a lot of my reads I assume that if a person is scum, they wouldn't do their partner the disservice of, say, throwing a huge fit and drawing so much attention to yourself. Or hardcore lurking out the game, which is a (or rather, the) reason I'm townreading Flames. Lurking is a little difficult to work with, unless it's a huge scumtell for the person.

Scum won't be anti-town? Scum can't flake? I'm honestly not following this argument at all. Seems like you're trying to force a townread on Reck for town points, I don't see what the point of this whole thing is otherwise.

And your Akane case has a couple of good points, but is largely just dragging out everything someone could find slightly objectionable but ultimately non-alignment indicative stuff like her RVS vote switch and her doors thing

[Parama]

VOTE: Grib

I like town!Reckoner for lack of self-awareness in 18. This post reads genuine as a townie who is sure the game will be over long before the 9 Day limit with so few players. It's safe to assume scum know exactly how their NK will function w/r/t the door mechanic. Admittedly, that's all I have for him, because the quality of his posts just go down from there.

Why are you retroactively posting a town case on someone who claimed a confirmable role?

to be fair it's probably best to ignore Reck's claim until it comes to pass that he's actually confirmed by someone

[Bins]

I think that's what he means.

[Bins]

btw reads post coming!

[Not_Mafia]

What I mean is, his readflip comes conveniently follows Reck's claim and not even due to "well he isn't confirmed yet but I don't think scum would claim a confirmable role as if they're lying it will only buy them one more day" or something similar. It's just, oh look I have a towncase on Reck now he's claimed a confirmable role.

PEdit: Indeed

[Parama]

I think that's what he means.

???
the problem is that the claim cannot affect a read at this point in time. and in the scenario where 1. it's fake but we can't prove it is or 2. it's real but the person he confirms to is killed then the claim stops mattering entirely, so it's entirely okay to try to get a read on Reck despite the claim since it could come in handy later to have a solid read on him