Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[Csareo]

What do you want me to defend?
Pro Tip: Unlike you, I don't freak out when someone scum reads me. It isn't my job to defend myself.
As a townie, my only focus is on hunting scum.

[Csareo]

And you still haven't told me what meta you're reffering to.
You keep changing the subject, and repeating yourself "My meta argument contradicts your case so you must be scum lulz"

[Csareo]

If BBT is scum, he really needs to shut the hell up.
If he's town (which isn't likely) , he would probably stand a better chance if he shuts the hell up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, first, let me ask this.
You're voting me because I made, in your eyes, a false statement?

No. I'm voting you because you scum-slipped and you're suffering from a serious case of tunnel-vision right now.

Name one thing you've done to hunt scum this game? Name one thing you've done besides defend yourself, and act like a complete and utter fool?

I've already said I haven't done much scum-hunting. Given I am the leading wagon, I am trying to defend myself in order to stop myself getting lynched.

And you still haven't told me what meta you're reffering to.

Are you serious with this question right here? You can't be. I know you can't be. This can't be a legit question. No, no it isn't. You're trolling me. You must be trolling me. I know I've already answered this question before and you even replied to my answer. I know it. I'm not crazy. I took my pills today. I...took...my...pills

[Csareo]

Are you serious with this question right here? You can't be. I know you can't be. This can't be a legit question. No, no it isn't. You're trolling me. You must be trolling me. I know I've already answered this question before and you even replied to my answer. I know it. I'm not crazy. I took my pills today. I...took...my...pills

Serious question, this is only the

third

time I've asked you.

[Csareo]

Everytime I ask what meta you're referring to, you repeat yourself.
You're hesitant to actually answer the question.
Am I missing something?

[Green Crayons]

Now I'm not your typical lamer replacee who just waltzes into the thread making a big ass post complete with chronological boring commentary of no value on mundane things. *winks at Green Crayons*

*blush* You noticed?

[Green Crayons]

(TBH I thought I was faulted for not including a whole bunch of mundane commentary.)

[Wake1]

The trolling and flaming is nothing but Anti-Town and needs to stop. It does nothing but divides Town further. If a PL were on the table I'd lynch the most disruptive player in the group. What we need is unity, and I sure as hell can't focus when trying to read through pages of belly-aching and trolling. I half-suspect it's intentional.

[Csareo]

Who is trolling and flaming? And please, contribute wake.

[Green Crayons]

Every time someone gets into an argument with Csaero, baby jesus gets smothered with a pillow in an alternate universe.

Blergh.

I take it you've played with him before, or are you just talking about within this game?

[Wake1]

I'm currently V/LA.

BBT, Flubber and TTH, what're your reads on Csareo?

[The Rufflig]

@TTH: It seems that you're not sure that BBT is scum and you don't appear to really find anyone else suspicious. Is that correct?

---

Hmm, looks like BBT isn't going to touch the case on him. I guess it's fair game now.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm currently V/LA.

BBT, Flubber and TTH, what're your reads on Csareo?

Vi. BBT gets extra scum points for continuing to pick fights with him. The only thing that is going to get me to scum read Csaero is either lurking or one hell of a scum slip.

[Flubbernugget]

Every time someone gets into an argument with Csaero, baby jesus gets smothered with a pillow in an alternate universe.

Blergh.

I take it you've played with him before, or are you just talking about within this game?

I think as more people play with him they'll get a sense of how to work with him to get good reads. But right now people are just going "look at this dumbass" and I'm not trying to filter through that to work with him.

[The Rufflig]

He actually voted TTH before this reaction, but it could of been motivated by two things (from a scum mindset)

Hold it! This argument relies on TTH being town. Ok, go on.

Partly why I thought he forged the PT

Stop! This requires TTH to be scum. There is no way a town TTH would let BBT get away with making things up about what is in a QT. You really can't have TTH be both town and scum in the same case against BBT. Not only is it nonsensical, but it also shows that you do not have an actual read on TTH.

Look, TTH posts once after the unvote and we have this

I think she is town

The unvote is post #140. The "I think she is town" is post #224. TTH posts 5 times between the two. That being said, BBT's waffling on TTH did make me uneasy. Waffling isn't strictly a scum trait, though. We have too many wafflers in this game for them all to be scum *sigh*.

BBT's lack of effective scum hunting while under pressure doesn't really bother me. I have seen a town player get so bogged down (day 1) in responses and defending himself that he could not actually scum hunt before.

[Omph]

Doogal, I am an alt with experience mainly on this website.

I've read the game and I have questions I'd like answered first.

1.

Green Crayon, how did you go about commenting on the game and its players? Did you read the entire thread first and then make summaries of your thoughts and feelings? Did you do ISOs of everyone and then wrote about them? Did you write notes while reading through? I want to know your process. Be specific, please.

Do you believe Csareo scum slipped?

2.

BBT, there was a point when you thought Csareo may have been town as indicated here,

508 and 530.

I forgot you scum-slipped. You seem to genuinely believe your case on me though and it makes me want to town-read you. But you scum-slipped.

Hmm.

Can you pinpoint or quote a specific thing he said or something that happened that made you think this?

3.

Csareo, I may have missed it but can you point to specific game(s) you believe BBT is acting differently than he is here and explain the differences? Also, what made you believe this was a 9 player game? Did you always think that?

[Green Crayons]

@Omph:

Do you believe Csareo scum slipped?

No. I think actual slips are pretty rare, and his "when" instead of "of" is not a sufficiently clear indication of a slip, particularly in light of BBT just having said that he wanted to be lynched to show everyone that he was town (or something along those lines).

That said, I think that BBT's insistence on looking for scum slips (with TTH, Csareo) is further proof of:

w/r/t BBT:

Everything about BBT reads to me as over-excited town so I don't plan on voting him unless some new shit comes to light. It's also unlikely if he's town that he has another role to claim besides neighbor so it's probably a dead end road.

Wouldn't over excited town be less defensive and more tunnel-y?

I would think it would depend on the player. He seemed genuinely upset he was outed by his neighbor and I think

he thinks

he keeps seeing all of these scum tells and is going after them.

-----

1.

Green Crayon, how did you go about commenting on the game and its players? Did you read the entire thread first and then make summaries of your thoughts and feelings? Did you do ISOs of everyone and then wrote about them? Did you write notes while reading through? I want to know your process. Be specific, please.

I started on Page 1, and read straight through until Page 24. No ISOing.

When I began, I started making notes as to my reactions to things as they were happening. Hence (this final result was the consequence of modifications, as noted below):

- w/r/t

TTH

versus

BBT

, the annoyed neighbors, I would perfer lynching TTH. But if we're only going off of the fact that they are neighbors, and TTH's third post in the QT, I don't want to lynch either.

- lol @ people getting suspicious of players voting/suspecting lurkers and active lurkers.

-

Anatole

and

Flubber

look and feel town.

Boon

and

Doogal

, too, maybe. I'm going to throw

Rufflig

into the maybe town bag, as well.

- lol @

wake

versus

Anatole

. Wake comes out looking worse by being super active about things ranging from really inane points to bad theories to blatant misunderstanding of what Anatole is saying. Is this wake's "divisive" play style TTH went on about? Ultimately looks like town versus town, but ~*~ who knows ~*~ .

My plan was to simply do a quick list of reactions, but that fell through because I started to have several observations about/questions for wake. So I pulled my wake observations out of the mix of sequential reactions, and made it its own section. Hence:

@Wake:

- Do you normally do these individual-player write ups, and so quickly into D1? Also, why'd you drop the practice so quickly?

- Your theory that both BBT and TTH are scum, and are quoting each other from a scum QT, was something I caught you suggest in a off-hand way at the very beginning of the neighbor business, and then several pages later you went all-in on the theory. Any basis for this suspicion other than pure speculation?

- You said:

I do. I've played enough games over the years to know when something isn't quite adding up. Should TTH flip Scum, I would certainly suspect you of being her Scum partner because of your role in trying to get everyone else to stop digging at the discrepancy.

Why the appeal to (your) authority?

Explain the contradictory actions according to your theory: BBT/TTH first bring suspicion upon one another (so that when one flips scum neighbor, the other will look like the town neighbor), but then attempt to placate that suspicion and

not

get each other lynched.

I then went back to making sequential observations, which I put back in the sequential observation section. (Most of my wake-specific points were from basically the same time period of the game, before the great Anatole/wake fight.)

My next big segment of player-specific observations was Csareo, and so, once again, I segregated that out into its own separate section. Hence:

@Csareo

:

- In Post 294 you say wake "appears to be right," but then you recognize the mod actually undercuts wake's position. You also appear to have missed TTH's Post 283 and wake's Post 288 further undercutting your approval of wake's speculation.

Care to comment?

- Whoa calm down on your buddying with wake, you're making it so darn obvious. (Post 294, Post 296, Post300, Post 304, Post 305, Post 308.)

- lol, whoa you're really going whole hog on this buddying wake business. (Post 350.) Okay, whatevs.

- Appears to set up a one-two back to back lynch of BBT and TTH (Post 400, Post 401, Post 403), and doesn't seem to care if they're town so long as he finally gets to know the mechanics of the neighbor role (Post 403 and Post 407).

I made a few more notes in the sequential observation section, and then was done with the read through. I realized I had a few GreyICE specific observations that could be segregated out, so I made them their own section, then I thought about what I read, and added:

OH MAN, THIS GAME.

Here are my thoughts (subsequent posts will be shorter, because I will not be commenting on 24 pages) (yo I bolded names so at least skim for your name if you want I don't care whatever):

And:

And here is my vote: UNVOTE: wake, VOTE: Csareo.

If Csareo is scum, wake is likely town.

And that's how Post 600 came into existence.

As for the sequential observation section, there are observations within each bullet point that are not necessarily in sequential order to entire section. For example:

-

Anatole and Flubber look and feel town.

Boon and Doogal, too, maybe.

I'm going to throw Rufflig into the maybe town bag, as well.

I made the bolded observation first, before the Anatole/wake fight. I made the underlined observation second, after the Anatole/wake fight. I made the italicized observation third, near the end of my reread. I put all of these differently timed reactions on the same line because they were basically the same type of reaction.

These second two observations, however, came sequentially after:

-

lol @ wake versus Anatole. Wake comes out looking worse by being super active about things ranging from really inane points to bad theories to blatant misunderstanding of what Anatole is saying.

Is this wake's "divisive" play style TTH went on about?

Ultimately looks like town versus town, but ~*~ who knows ~*~ .

But even the three sentences within this bullet point were not made all at the same time. The bolded observation was made during the beginning of the Anatole/wake fight. The underline observation was made near the end of the Anatole/wake fight. And the italicized version came some time after the Anatole/wake fight was over.

[Green Crayons]

@Flubber:

I'm currently V/LA.

BBT, Flubber and TTH, what're your reads on Csareo?

Vi. BBT gets extra scum points for continuing to pick fights with him. The only thing that is going to get me to scum read Csaero is either lurking or one hell of a scum slip.

I think as more people play with him they'll get a sense of how to work with him to get good reads. But right now people are just going "look at this dumbass" and I'm not trying to filter through that to work with him.

So you're reading Csaero unless and until he makes a really stupid scum mistake or simply loses interest in the game? (Asking to make sure I have your position right.)

Have you witnessed Csaero's scum game before and that's why you're banking on that type of scumplay from him?

[Green Crayons]

reading Csaero as town*

[massive]

I would like him to claim now, rather than L-1.

[massive]

Well, THAT's not a whole post. One incoming.

[Anatole Kuragin]

we already know he is either a) mafia or b) neighbor

there is literally nothing else he can claim, this is a normal game and you guys are kinda ridiculous

[massive]

unvote

vote Csareo

There are a bunch of things here.

1.

I would like him to claim now, rather than L-1.

I'm not sure how you could forget that they were neighbors, considering you read and understood they were neighbors (294) and even continued to push the "they're both scum as neighbors" idea (also 294) and outlined a huge plan for why one or both are scum in 350.

2. The flip from TTH to BBT as the likely scum in the neighborhood. The conclusion of 350 is in 351 and has the "most likely" outcome as AK+TTH as scum together. Your next post, 380, has you flipping to BBT saying it's "best for you" and agreeing with Boon (whose case in 353 is bad and dependent on Wake being town), Doogal (whose two-line case in 375 is is based on BBT not looking for "actual scuminess" but doesn't give any examples of any), and Rufflig (who is actually more suspicious of Csareo's case on the neighbors, see 369).

3. The buddying of Wake, but really, the reaction to being called on it. It might have been a completely different story had you said, "yeah, I'm townreading Wake, I agree with this point," but you go straight into yelling at people for "bullshit associative tells" (hint: it's not associative since it doesn't rely on Wake's alignment) and claiming we'll lynch Wake if you flip town (607). Not only are you buddying him, but you're working extra hard to tie your alignment to his.

Oh, and

and I would expect that if you voted based only on HARD FACTS that you would not play much Mafia.

Did you hear what I said about speculation? All lynches are based on it, but there is a degree of supporting evidence that can back a theory.
A theory that has no supporting evidence or "reason" isn't a very wise theory.

Uh, it was YOU who was saying this only made sense if players were PROVEN (your word) one alignment or the other. See 621. I'm not the one whose refuting a scum case on them by using these words.

[Flubbernugget]

@Flubber:

I'm currently V/LA.

BBT, Flubber and TTH, what're your reads on Csareo?

Vi. BBT gets extra scum points for continuing to pick fights with him. The only thing that is going to get me to scum read Csaero is either lurking or one hell of a scum slip.

I think as more people play with him they'll get a sense of how to work with him to get good reads. But right now people are just going "look at this dumbass" and I'm not trying to filter through that to work with him.

So you're reading Csaero unless and until he makes a really stupid scum mistake or simply loses interest in the game? (Asking to make sure I have your position right.)

Have you witnessed Csaero's scum game before and that's why you're banking on that type of scumplay from him?

Whether he makes a really stupid mistake or lurks. I don't think he would lose interest. I haven't seen his scum game, but he's played town like this before. I'm basing the fact that he will lurk as scum under the assumption that he is so invested in the military strategy he uses to scumhunt there's no way he would be able to apply it as scum. Even if he didn't lurk, I think his scum play would be radically different from what we see here.