Open 573: C9++

[wgeurts]

Also voting monkey if my gut is right would make monkey seem alot less scummy in the case of DS' es death.

[Jingle]

I have updated rule #15.

It is now:

15. I may not fix tags or edit posts where you might make a formatting mistake, even if you ask me to. Do not expect me to fix editing mistakes.

It was:

15. I do not fix tags or edit posts where you might make a formatting mistake, even if you ask me to.

I may fix tags or delete double posts should I believe it to be helpful to the readability of the thread. That is all.

[sthar8]

Flavor when I get around to it.

Your metaphors are moving and beautiful.

VOTE: monkey

let's do this for a while.

[Heartless]

every time i look at this thread and don't see a 50 shades post

my heart breaks

twice

100 pieces of antihero heart.... /sigh

[Heartless]

sthar

do you have a pillow

i can cry into...?

[wgeurts]

sthar

do you have a pillow

i can cry into...?

Use my fur.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I did. It may surprise you, but I actually wrote that post as well. None of those words mean that I have no read on nero. I mean, I even tried reading every third word. It's just not there. (

No read on nero? Where is that coming from?

Yes, that is a post I made. No, I never said or implied that I voted Nero for reactions.

You literally said you are wagoning for reactions.

It's called a "conversation." Also a correction that I don't expect you to understand the nuance of: it was "here are some reasons I might not want you to know why I voted you" not "here are some reasons I might have voted you."

How does what you said there mean "i'm wagoning for your reactions, i wanna see who cares about a wagon on you, i'm looking for opportunistic vote-hoppers, i'm waiting to expound until you've dug yourself a sufficient hole, or i think my reasoning should be obvious."

More strawman, and backtracking.

Vocabulary assignment- define and use in a sentence the following words:
Hypothetical
Potential
Strawman
Cause
Ambiguous

No.

You are right about this. I misread your ambiguous post 149

What about that post is ambiguous?

You tell me a real answer to the question and I wont call it ambiguous.

I dont see how I have been demanding?

I don't care if you think I'm town.

But as an intellectual exercise: why would I refuse to explain my reasoning as scum?

I'm not scum explain it to me.

"Hey talk to me now even though i clearly misread your last post!"

Actually, if your post 154 wasn't providing reasons what was the point of it ? I literally cant see anything other than vague reasons for a serious vote.

You say you wont tell scum why you voted.

Are you calling me scum by not giving your "real" reasons?

"sthar's ignoring me so he must be scum. Answer my questions, even though I obviously have no idea what we're talking about!"

Just explain yourself itsn't that hard if you're town.

"IF YOU WERE TOWN you'd drop whatever you're doing to make sure

I

understand what you're talking about!"

Ok I guess it is hard for you.

"the only reason

I

wouldn't be your top priority is if you're scum!"

You had enough time to come back and post how stupid my questioning is but you never answered.

Answered what? Your vast misinterpretation of everything I've said? Damn right! When you start writing me a paycheck that can pay my bills, you can start complaining about how I spend my time. Until then, content yourself with learning to count as well as learning to read. I came back and said "I don't have time to answer your stupid questions right now, I will do so later" and your response was "Why haven't you answered my questions yet, you must be scum."

Kindly fuck off. Also add 'job' to your vocab assignment.

No you fuck off. I could give a fuck about your real life. Paycheck? Get that shit out of here. Your a real Bitch for trying to put my posts in that light.

Back to the game.Why are you pushing that I am rushing you? What if I am? I think you are scum. Big deal. Should I put a please at the end of every post so your feelings dont get hurt, and you start calling names again?

I bet I would be annoying to a scum.

You know, I bet you wouldn't. If I were scum I could take solace in the fact that your poor reading comprehension means I could do all sorts of manipulative shit without you catching on. But I'm town, and this just means that in addition to catching scum I have to listen to you whine about how you might literally die from attention starvation. But then again, if I were scum it would be a priority to crack whatever language it is you're speaking and that seems like it might be frustrating. So you might be right.

Looks like everytime I question you it was "for attention". How convenient.

I'm saying that I had neither the time nor the inclination to deal with your massive misreading problem. And yes, repeated requests to respond to your wild theories based on a functional misunderstanding of the words I use is pretty damn annoying.

Again, how is explaining what you said your self so hard and time consuming? Like I said you had time to lay plenty of strawman.

Please stop using that term if you're not going to do so correctly.

But I am.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Why is sthar trying to frame that I was rushing him so hard? He is taking my 3rd post towards him and calling it a demand. Then says he is too busy to answer. Ok so why just answer when you can instead of constantly saying "I HAVE A LIFE I CANT RESPOND RIGHT NOW".

[GrayFoxxxx]

I realllllly can't see a town acting like this. Then again maybe he is just butthurt by something I said. Going to leave my vote where it is for now. Going to look at a few other players as I have tunneled Sthar enough for now.

[massive]

what the hell are you doing, massive?

Just trying to get the hang of this newfangled Mafia game you kids play. I don't know, am I doing it badly? Not enough swear words? By the way, I would totally sheep you on Aneninen, but that would drive TTH bananas. Like, Gwen Stefani bananas.

Also, do I not remember the definition of straw man argument?

[Heartless]

why do you care about trying to mindread tth?

[50 Shades of Purple]

every time i look at this thread and don't see a 50 shades post

my heart breaks

twice

100 pieces of antihero heart.... /sigh

ffs have patience, I haven't synched with nacho about this game yet

re: the only game I played with anem I mislynched him in lylo. it was his newbie game and I see the same tone he took there as he is doing in this game. he wants to be a teacher.

his pushes were awful, he was all worried about when the gm would flip lynches like I could not stay off of him and thought he was a terribad alt for the longest time. I am not willing to commit the same mistakes twice. but I totally get why you think he is scummy I just think we would actually have to see him as scum.

nacho voted deathy2 and I am waiting to connect with him about a couple of things. gun to head dave looks off. I have you guyz as firm town and if nacho flakes on me (which he better not) you guyz are who I will be centering around.

iln

[MonkeyMan]

I found it interesting that Monkey unvoted under pressure, but apparently not on a change of heart with regard to wgeurts.

My unvote was satarical at the fact that they said wrguets was just new. If you read the post it was pretty obvious. I hate people dismissing scummy things just because someone is new.

[MonkeyMan]

Ok, everyone here is so much better at mafia than on the other forum. Any articles anywhere I can read to improve?

Since I am better that means my reads are better which means my scum read on you is right.

this is a scum claim.

[Rumia x Cirno]

I found it interesting that Monkey unvoted under pressure, but apparently not on a change of heart with regard to wgeurts.

My unvote was satarical at the fact that they said wrguets was just new. If you read the post it was pretty obvious. I hate people dismissing scummy things just because someone is new.

And I didn't see you revoting.

[Death Stare]

I found it interesting that Monkey unvoted under pressure, but apparently not on a change of heart with regard to wgeurts.

My unvote was satarical at the fact that they said wrguets was just new. If you read the post it was pretty obvious. I hate people dismissing scummy things just because someone is new.

And I didn't see you revoting.

ffs out of all the accounts to slip with

[MonkeyMan]

Well I don't want to be lynched so let me conform to what you all expect of me.

I think Wgeurts is new scum. The no lynch vote really bothers me and them going after me and Nero saying we are blood hungry. I had already explained what they deadline everyone was looking at was and that fact that the real deadline was in the first post. Even if the deadline for the day was the 1 day one since there were two different deadlines it would have only been fair for the mod to give us a little more time to do something since we were debating on the deadline itself.

From what I understood Wgeurts took my saying we should lynch someone, which was a joke since deadline was in like 2 weeks, as me actually wanting to flash lynch someone. This was not true but I guess it could be an honest mistake. Wguerts is just making mistakes I think a new scum person would make. They aren't concrete in any way but they are what I got and by golly I am going to pursue them.

Something that really bothers me is people writing off someone who is being scummy as just being new. Yes new people make mistakes but that isn't a reason to not lynch someone. You learn from mistakes. That would be like no lynching Ika for hammering whenever the hell they feel like it. It is always anti-town and a legit reason to lynch someone. People should not get free passes no matter what experience they have or you have with them. Someone who is being scummy/anti-town might just be scum/anti-town.

[MonkeyMan]

I don't need to revote because I know the wagon is going to go nowhere. I am trying to find another person of whom i think is scum.

[Aneninen]

So, I've got home. First of all, as I promised, I would explain why I scumread "early lurkers".

Warning: a long post about my theory.

Spoiler:

This experience is based upon both IRL and online games.

There is a concept called

Vacuum Activity

. You can read about it eg. here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_activity
The short summary of the phenomenon is the following (taken from the page above):

"Vacuum activities (or vacuum behaviours) are innate, fixed action patterns of animal behaviour that are performed in the absence of the external stimuli (releaser) that normally elicit them.[1] This type of abnormal behaviour shows that a key stimulus is not always needed to produce an activity.[2] Vacuum activities can be difficult to identify because it is necessary to determine whether any stimulus triggered the behaviour."

How is that concept related to Mafia?

As the game starts, townies start scumhunting sooner or later. They examine everyone and everything – but, since they know nothing about the others, they can't trust other players and they can find anything suspicious. If this process is going well (or, if they're lucky), they can spot the scums because they're uninterested in scumhunting. However, the less information have the townies the harder is the scumhunt. Without enough information townies can skim over things while they think that insignificant bits are very important; they can misread or misinterpret posts.

Doh, we all know that ^_^

But, what happens if there are no active scums present in the thread? The townies

STILL

do the same because they

KNOW

there

MUST

be scums in the game. Regardless of the fact that there are NO scumposts, they are paranoid and start scumreading

each other

! This leads to town-vs-town fights and eventually, to mislynches.

That is what I call the Vacuum Activity of the town

.
Scums, if lurking, can use this phenomenon to their advantage. If they lurk early-game, by the time they become active, there are vehement town-vs-town fights and they only need to "pick a side" in these fights, join a wagon, whatever. (Sometimes these lurkers get accused or voted by some but, since there are no instant reactions from the scums, these cases rarely turn into temperamental fights.) Even worse: no matter that a town-vs-town leads to a mislynch, those who were counter-wagoned still will be scumread during the forthcoming days too. (Something like "soooo, XXXXX flipped town, see? I knew that it would happen because YYYYY is scum and he/she pushed that wagon/voteflipped all the time/flailed a lot/etc.")

I've seen this Vacuum Activity in online games too but, once I was in a bastard IRL game. The mod launched a setup whithout scums but, noone knew that. During the Nights the mod killed players (and asked everyone who died not to "spoil the fun"). As the game processed sooner or later everyone alive lost their nerves and we ended up in a game which was more vehement and agressive than anything I'd seen in Mafia before!
This story proved that Vacuum Activity exists.

In this particular game, relatively little "real time" has passed since the start but, the players who I mentioned in my read list had provided little or no content

while they were active elsewhere on this site

! Any of them could have done this intentionally because of being scum! (I've already spotted scum by this way.)
The differences between the three players are the following:
Stavrogin posted NOTHING, not even a random vote. (One contentless post has arrived since my readlist.) It's super-scummy.
Massive had very few posts with little content. A bit less scummy but it's still scummy. I saw that he's posted recently, I'm going to read those posts as soon as I can.
50Shades can be just as scummy (more posts but very little real content) but it's much harder for me to decide the cornerstone of the case: being active elsewhere. I have very little experience with hydras. So far I've met two: one of them asked for a replacement on Day1, the other one was my Mason-buddy – why should I have read them? ^_^ And they got killed Night1 By little experience I mean: how is a hydra played? Do they have an agreement who posts at what time, or do they switch their heads by a certain time period or does it depend on the heads' timezones? I bet all hydras play in a different way, aren't they? Also, are they allowed to PM each other or not? Etc, etc... In short: how should check their activity if one head is active elsewhere while the other one isn't?

Also remember,

these scumreads may change later easily

– the catch-up of a previously inactive player is a vital tell. A town-catchup if detailed, contains a lot of reads, even if those reads are wrong. If it's short (eg. due to laziness) townies usually get active later. A detailed scum-catchup

looks like

a real one but it contains no new information; it's usually full of nothing, and/or parroting others' reads. (And they usually jump on an already-existing wagon against one of the easy-looking lynches).

I'm going to read the new posts too; as soon as I can.

[Death Stare]

I don't need to revote because I know the wagon is going to go nowhere. I am trying to find another person of whom i think is scum.

wgeurts wants to no lynch.
wgeurts doesn't like random bandwagons.
wgeurts wants to hold onto his vote.

I don't know that mafia is the game for wgeurts.

This is town too.

I am getting a good town block.

Heartless, Nero Cain, Massive and Me.

I think I just broke the game.

Scum:

wreurts, Death Stare

[MonkeyMan]

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

[Death Stare]

A lot of people already scum read you so I see no point to pursue that either. I also feel like you have more than 2 votes on you but the votecount says otherwise.

....

[massive]

why do you care about trying to mindread tth?

I'm just poking fun. Gotta get it in now before things get super serious.

Massive had very few posts with little content. A bit less scummy but it's still scummy. I saw that he's posted recently, I'm going to read those posts as soon as I can.

SPOILER ALERT: You'll still find it scummy. Especially the part where I say I could vote you.

[MTD]

So, I've got home. First of all, as I promised, I would explain why I scumread "early lurkers".

Warning: a long post about my theory.

Spoiler:

This experience is based upon both IRL and online games.

There is a concept called

Vacuum Activity

. You can read about it eg. here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_activity
The short summary of the phenomenon is the following (taken from the page above):

"Vacuum activities (or vacuum behaviours) are innate, fixed action patterns of animal behaviour that are performed in the absence of the external stimuli (releaser) that normally elicit them.[1] This type of abnormal behaviour shows that a key stimulus is not always needed to produce an activity.[2] Vacuum activities can be difficult to identify because it is necessary to determine whether any stimulus triggered the behaviour."

How is that concept related to Mafia?

As the game starts, townies start scumhunting sooner or later. They examine everyone and everything – but, since they know nothing about the others, they can't trust other players and they can find anything suspicious. If this process is going well (or, if they're lucky), they can spot the scums because they're uninterested in scumhunting. However, the less information have the townies the harder is the scumhunt. Without enough information townies can skim over things while they think that insignificant bits are very important; they can misread or misinterpret posts.

Doh, we all know that ^_^

But, what happens if there are no active scums present in the thread? The townies

STILL

do the same because they

KNOW

there

MUST

be scums in the game. Regardless of the fact that there are NO scumposts, they are paranoid and start scumreading

each other

! This leads to town-vs-town fights and eventually, to mislynches.

That is what I call the Vacuum Activity of the town

.
Scums, if lurking, can use this phenomenon to their advantage. If they lurk early-game, by the time they become active, there are vehement town-vs-town fights and they only need to "pick a side" in these fights, join a wagon, whatever. (Sometimes these lurkers get accused or voted by some but, since there are no instant reactions from the scums, these cases rarely turn into temperamental fights.) Even worse: no matter that a town-vs-town leads to a mislynch, those who were counter-wagoned still will be scumread during the forthcoming days too. (Something like "soooo, XXXXX flipped town, see? I knew that it would happen because YYYYY is scum and he/she pushed that wagon/voteflipped all the time/flailed a lot/etc.")

I've seen this Vacuum Activity in online games too but, once I was in a bastard IRL game. The mod launched a setup whithout scums but, noone knew that. During the Nights the mod killed players (and asked everyone who died not to "spoil the fun"). As the game processed sooner or later everyone alive lost their nerves and we ended up in a game which was more vehement and agressive than anything I'd seen in Mafia before!
This story proved that Vacuum Activity exists.

In this particular game, relatively little "real time" has passed since the start but, the players who I mentioned in my read list had provided little or no content

while they were active elsewhere on this site

! Any of them could have done this intentionally because of being scum! (I've already spotted scum by this way.)
The differences between the three players are the following:
Stavrogin posted NOTHING, not even a random vote. (One contentless post has arrived since my readlist.) It's super-scummy.
Massive had very few posts with little content. A bit less scummy but it's still scummy. I saw that he's posted recently, I'm going to read those posts as soon as I can.
50Shades can be just as scummy (more posts but very little real content) but it's much harder for me to decide the cornerstone of the case: being active elsewhere. I have very little experience with hydras. So far I've met two: one of them asked for a replacement on Day1, the other one was my Mason-buddy – why should I have read them? ^_^ And they got killed Night1 By little experience I mean: how is a hydra played? Do they have an agreement who posts at what time, or do they switch their heads by a certain time period or does it depend on the heads' timezones? I bet all hydras play in a different way, aren't they? Also, are they allowed to PM each other or not? Etc, etc... In short: how should check their activity if one head is active elsewhere while the other one isn't?

Also remember,

these scumreads may change later easily

– the catch-up of a previously inactive player is a vital tell. A town-catchup if detailed, contains a lot of reads, even if those reads are wrong. If it's short (eg. due to laziness) townies usually get active later. A detailed scum-catchup

looks like

a real one but it contains no new information; it's usually full of nothing, and/or parroting others' reads. (And they usually jump on an already-existing wagon against one of the easy-looking lynches).

I'm going to read the new posts too; as soon as I can.

Ok... this breaks down to
"I think scum would benefit from lurking, so the lurkers are probably scum."
I don't even know what to say to this.
One thing: That logic doesn't work, since lurking has often been called a scumtell, to the effect that it isn't one (anymore?).

[massive]

Oh, and

Something that really bothers me is people writing off someone who is being scummy as just being new. Yes new people make mistakes but that isn't a reason to not lynch someone.

You're confusing your participles. The things you are pointing to are nulls at best. Trying to make them out to be scum tells and trying to convince us he's making newbie scum mistakes doesn't change the fact that they're nulls.