Open 573: C9++

[Heartless]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:

Moment of Clarity

So, I haven't had any sleep for the last 37 hours, but as I was laying in bed a second ago, something just occurred to me. I've been looking at all the wrong people.

massive isn't scum.

(And I don't think 50 Shades is either.)

And he's not scum for a few reasons. One is that there's a notable lack of a counterwagon or any real competing suspects/wagons today. The other is the stark contrast between what happened with the massive wagon yesterday and today. Yesterday, it never really got off the ground; the only people that really bought into it were Anti and Nero Cain. Now all sorts of people are crawling out of the woodwork to vote massive and he's already gotten to 5 votes

in only 6 pages and 4 realtime days

with no competing counterwagons

. There also hasn't been a change in the case on massive, other than perhaps the premature VT claim, but I don't think that's scummy anyway. It

has

to make you wonder.

There

is

an explanation for the day's occurrences.

MTD, wgeurts, and sthar8 are scum.

I already knew I had early concerns about wgeurts but I tabled them because he never seemed to be on Anti's radar for scum. He's scummy, though. Say what you want about

any

of his other behavior in this game, but this post (Post 1156) is scum. It's pretty much an objective summary of massive's play this game with sparse references. None of it even

looks

right; some of the sentences ("He then starts using the "you have no reason to vote me" argument which is also (IMO) horribly scummy.") have this dangling reason that doesn't lead to the stated conclusoin. Overall, it's incredibly shoehorned and awkward and notably lacks any kind of thread of logic leading up to a satisfying conclusion of "massive is scum." It looks exactly like he cobbled something together in response to the criticism of his earlier vote being opportunistic. (On a side-note, I have no idea why he chose to spoiler it since it's a very manageable length anyway.)

I had confidence in sthar leading up to this point, but after little thought, I really don't have any reason to be. The massive push today is based on a lot of faulty arguments. He also hasn't been engaging us (especially Antihero) on Day 1, which is weird since he's been townreading us this whole time and we never seem to have been in sync reads-wise. That seems odd, considering how Chosen went. sthar being scum would also explain how the massive wagon took off as quickly as it did (as I already explained in the opening paragraph).

That's two scum on the wagon. I don't think 50 Shades or Nero are scum, so there's probably another off the wagon.

My bet's on MTD. There's ostensible criticism of the massive wagon, but nothing really substantial is really delineated in the thread in terms of that townread, which is odd considering that the size of the wagon. There's also a noticeable lack of a vote or an attempt to start a competing wagon so I'm guessing he's more than happy to just let this massive wagon roll along. This dichotomy he recently presented (Anen or wgeurts) is completely nonsensical and Anen is likely town anyway. Looking back at Day 1 activity, there's really nothing that inspires confidence.

There's only a couple flaws with this theory. One is that it could fall apart if there are only 2 mafia or a serial killer. I'm guessing that the presence of only one kill on Night 1 is a likely indicator that there's only one scum faction, though. And if Jingle really did randomize the setup, the likelihood of 2 T's or 4 T's being generated is much higher than 6 T's. (For there to be 6 T's, Jingle would have to get 6/7 numbers between 1-100 that fall between 1 and 50. Someone who has the time and/or inclination to do so can run a statistical significance test.) The other flaw is that it doesn't really give a satisfying explanation for why TSO was killed on Night 1. I'll see what Antihero thinks about all this. Right now, though, I have to get some sleep because I feel like I'm about to pass out at my computer.

VOTE: sthar8

-TTH

wooooah.....

ohkay

that ... uh ...

that's actually
a pretty awesome post

[Nero Cain]

Mollie can analyze my meat anyday.....

yeah, i don't think this counts as flirting

this is more like...............

weird and awkward

[Nero Cain]

NEW TINFOIL!

Scum have given up on Massive and Sthar and Mollie are distancing from each other.



but Massive is still scum, there's like zero town motivation for him to claim early. And now he's intentionally playing oblivious why that is bad.

[Nero Cain]

@50Shades-Mollie Stop that bullshyt! Sthar is most probably town, I've already explained why. We're not lynching him Today. Aaand, while you're saying that Sthar is scum, sheeping Nero and Heartless with that vote without posting anything about Massive!? Welcome to my scumpool! Some other reasons are posted above too.

^specifically, this

Disagree. I think he's wrong about Sthar but scumreading the person that you think is attacking your teamate isn't some off the wall cray crayness. And scum often sheep so like that doesn't seem all that crazy either. Can you explain why you think its a bad post?

And if you aren't scumreading him then why are you being condescending and putting him down?

I *get* that hypocrisy is not a scumtel

very much disagree.

235 is some good insight into wgeurts at that point in the game, and digs at Nero and MonkeyMan for their focus on newbietells.

I also disagree with this. Not only do I know that I'm town and I feel like Monkey is town (he has 1 post that makes me a lil' uneasy but meh) so he's misreading two townies, but that's null. Both voting for no lynch and or advocating for no lynch and defending a "pl" or in this case, a perceived pl, or both things that can and have come from newb scum. Wgurts is just as likely to receive a red pm as the rest of us so him being a newbie doesn't mean we should ignore bad/newbie play. You should not be using this as a towntell for sthar me thinks.

I can see your reasoning for your massive push, but I'm lost on your sthar one. Is it carrying over from the whole "low-hanging fruit" issue with MonkeyMan and wgeurts from early on Day 1 or what?

I said I wanted to DANCE with you, not talk with you!

These are the following reasons why I am suspicious of sthar:

• I very much disagree with his implied suggestion that wguerts should be left alone 'cause he's an obv newb.
  He WAS around sitewise during his V/la but not posting here.
  

  @nero- i'm wagoning for your reactions, i wanna see who cares about a wagon on you, i'm looking for opportunistic vote-hoppers, i'm waiting to expound until you've dug yourself a sufficient hole, or i think my reasoning should be obvious.

  
  ^^^^
  I felt like this was one of those "let others make the case for me" type attacks. Like if I got wagoned up and lynched then it wouldn't matter but if I didn't then he'd prob argue that scum didn't want to bus me or something..not sure but it felt wrong, almost as wrong as chicks with 3 tits.
  totes disagree with Anti that accusing me of being scum for attacking wgurts and also saying that if he flips scum that I was bussing him
  Still think his "massive has to die today" was weird (part of the reason why I felt he was being bussed)
  

So yea, that early claim from Massive and that "well he has to die" from Sthar felt wrong. Didn't like wgeurts vote much either.

What is the town motivation in Massive early claiming?

[MonkeyMan]

For real, what do I have to do to get people to talk to or about me?

[davesaz]

VOTE: Wgeurts

Appeal to emotion is not going to help you here. If you know you aren't playing well how come you aren't trying to fix it? What was with your vote? You didn't even give a real reason you just said it was because of ISO. What about the ISO exactly didn't you like?

Wrguerts is scum. How is that not obvious by now?

For real, what do I have to do to get people to talk to or about me?

Let's talk about your wgeurts read / vote. It seems rather disjointed, like you're not pressing it at all. That comes off as way too shallow for town. I see things I don't like about wgeurts, but I'd like to see some explanation from you that shows your read is genuine and not just a shot in the dark. You might be seeing the same things or different, which is fine either way.

[pirate mollie]

For real, what do I have to do to get people to talk to or about me?

I think you are town.

I have felt this very same thing and it sucks and I don't want you to feel excluded.

I read what you said about starella and I disagree. I think he is scum so I kind of stopped there.

[Brian Skies]

I am waiting for brian to fully catch up.

I feel like monkey's post about feeling left out reads as lost town. I DON"T get the same vibe from wgurtz thing.

I got to like page 31 today (walls and arguments out of nowhere slowed me down), and I'm hoping I can finish my catch up tomorrow. I decided not to do a similar post to my last one because I don't feel like posting things that will be redundant.

I agree with you that Monkey's probably town. His conviction and frustration reads genuine to me.

I don't know what changed between page 31 and now that you don't get similar vibes from Wg because I thought your slot was townreading him yesterday. But I've generally gotten the feeling that he's playing cautiously and trying to look pro-town by saying pro-town things while actually not doing anything productive (at least not up to where I'm at). And I can't wrap my head around what he thinks is scummy about Death. It feels fabricated.

Also voting monkey if my gut is right would make monkey seem alot less scummy in the case of DS' es death.

this guy is literally styling on pretty much 80% of the game right now

I don't understand what he's saying in that post and I didn't think it was that important. Could you explain it to me since you seemed to be pretty giddy about it?

@Nero: I was scumreading you in Apocalypse only because you were trying to get Titus lynched and I was strongly townreading her. I have no comment on the other game.

[wgeurts]

That post from me was saying if DS flipped scum and monkey is scum DS voting Monkey would make Monkey look less scummy, that's what I think that meant.

[Aneninen]

Why specifically it's more scummy to claim at L-4 or 5 vs. L-2 or 1. What specifically scum have to gain from claiming early.

I've already explained that but I'm doing so again. There are two possible situations where claiming helps the town:
(1) being at L–1 (especially with a hammer intent) – in this case some players on the wagon may change their mind so as to prevent a mislynch
(2) having a PR and helping the town with vital pieces of information.
(More precisely, there's a third situation: counterclaiming a fake claim.)

Claiming if you're far from L–1 doesn't help the town a lot but it helps the scum.
Supposing that your VT claim was real now the scums know that you're not Nightkill-worthy if they want to get rid of Town-PRs.
BUT, a fake-VT claim is

very

useful if you're scum. First of all, you may be able to derail your own wagon preemptively and buy a Day for yourself. (Or more Days: noone will expect investigation results, Night Action targets, etc. from you.)
But, there is a much bigger advantage. A fake-VT claim will be an excellent excuse for

not getting Nightkilled at all

. You can always say that you're still alive because the scums are trying to find the Town-PRs via Nightkills.
That'swhy I think your VT claim at L–5 is very scummy. Especially since you told that you had claimed at L–2 but it had actually happened at L–5!!!

I'm not on your wagon only because you are not my strongest scumread and because I want to ask something very important which might change a couple of things.
Besides Nero, who are your other scumreads?
If you refuse to answer this question once again, why are you doing so?

[Jingle]

Vote Count 2.4

When the afternoon light
touches the broad orange petals
of the tiger lilies, mute tongues
curled, I pray hard
for such joyous sights to continue.
-Nate Pritts

massive (3): Nero Cain, sthar8, wgeurts
sthar8 (2): Heartless, 50 Shades of Purple
wgeurts (1): Aneninen
Nero Cain (1): massive
davesaz (1): MonkeyMan
Heartless (0):
Brian Skies (0):
Aneninen (0):
Death Stare (0):
50 Shades of Purple (0):
MTD (0):
MonkeyMan (0):
No Lynch (0):
Not Voting (4): davesaz, Brian Skies, Death Stare, MTD

With 12 alive, it is seven to Lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2014-10-25 16:00:00) on October 25th, 2014 at PST (GMT-8).

I lied. Flavor will be spotty at best until Monday. Sorry guys. I'll be sure to hit at least one VC a day though.

[Aneninen]

Heartless. Your 1241 was impressive indeed, even if I'm not entirely convinced about your theory.
I might add a couple of things even if I'm said to produce terrible posts.

And he's not scum for a few reasons. One is that there's a notable lack of a counterwagon or any real competing suspects/wagons today.

There could have been an attempt for that. Read back a bit and you'll find that someone posted something... strange. I hope you'll find what I mean.

Yesterday, it never really got off the ground; the only people that really bought into it were Anti and Nero Cain. Now all sorts of people are crawling out of the woodwork to vote massive and he's already gotten to 5 votes

in only 6 pages and 4 realtime days

with no competing counterwagons

. There also hasn't been a change in the case on massive, other than perhaps the premature VT claim, but I don't think that's scummy anyway. It

has

to make you wonder.

I still scumread him though I'm waiting for an answer from him, check out my previous post. But I was wondering

why

there are so few players who are actually interacting with him and that disturbs me. As far as I can remember, Nero, 50Shades (sometimes) and I (who don't even vote for him). Where are the others?
A possible explanation that he's town and you're right about him. In this case the scums are not forced to do anything. It's also possible that some of them are away from the wagon because they want to earn town-credit later by doing so.
But, there are other possibilities. What if he's scum and the scums decided at Night that they wouldn't do anything about his wagon? If it doesn't reach the lynch, they've done it right. If it does, there will be no interactive tells later. Or, it's also possible that Wgeurts is bussing him (I posted about this a couple of days ago). Maybe 50Shades' vote is a bus too. Plus the thing I posted above. BrainSkies might be a possible partner too; I'm not scumreading him but we know very little about that slot right now.

There

is

an explanation for the day's occurrences.
MTD, wgeurts, and sthar8 are scum.

Wgeurts is most probably scum, regardless of Massive's alignment. As for MTD... I don't know. I don't see the connection between his and Massive's alignment. I used to townread him but right now I'm not that sure. More posts are needed from him.
Sthar is a terrible read. And I've already posted why.
Why do you think 50Shades are town?

There's only a couple flaws with this theory. One is that it could fall apart if there are only 2 mafia or a serial killer. I'm guessing that the presence of only one kill on Night 1 is a likely indicator that there's only one scum faction, though. And if Jingle really did randomize the setup, the likelihood of 2 T's or 4 T's being generated is much higher than 6 T's. (For there to be 6 T's, Jingle would have to get 6/7 numbers between 1-100 that fall between 1 and 50. Someone who has the time and/or inclination to do so can run a statistical significance test.) The other flaw is that it doesn't really give a satisfying explanation for why TSO was killed on Night 1. I'll see what Antihero thinks about all this. Right now, though, I have to get some sleep because I feel like I'm about to pass out at my computer.

Why would Jingle lie about the randomization? Isn't that illegal???
As for the SK, we might have one if (1) one of the kills was prevented by a Doc (2) the SK and the Mafia shot the same player and (3) one of the scum factions performed No Nightkill intentionally. It would be too complicated to count the probability of (1) and impossible to define the chance of (3). Therefore, unless the forthcoming Nights contradict it we should assume that there's no SK.
The chance for having 3 Mafias is about 89% – I've already posted this.

I'd also like to know why TSO was killed. I repeat my question: am I right that he was on V/LA at the end of Day1?

[Aneninen]

anem's shift on us to us being scum cos we are scumreading star was pretty freaking weird.

What shift?!
When did I say that I was townreading you? You were on the "I don't know" tier at best.
There was that possible Chainsaw from Davesaz. It's strange that everyone has forgotten about that but I still remember.
I posted a couple of things about you in the post you called "anem's shift".
Plus, Heartless' thoughts about Sthar are much more viable than your "ooooh, he's faking V/LA" bullshyt yesterday.


I repeat this – and Heartless, it's for you too:
(1) There is a game which was finished a couple of days ago. Sthar was scum, I was town.
(2) He was V/LA-ing there too. (No matter whether it was genuine or fake.)
(3) Everyone knows that I'm overrating and overusing metas and online activity.
(4) If Sthar were scum he would have got rid of me at Night 1, before I start discovering the similarities between his gameplay here and his gameplay in the finished game.

I posted this on DAY 2!
Frankly, what would a scum!Sthar think at Night1? "Shyt, Aneninen might notice that I'm doing the same here. So, I let him alive because that idiot will post that I'm town because he hasn't been Nightkilled. Wow, such a perfect plan, mwahahahahaha!" How would this make any sense?

For real, what do I have to do to get people to talk to or about me?

I'm not ignoring you either. However, get used to posting thoughts only to getting ignored by most of the players
What are your reads now in general?

As a matter of fact, anyone can answer the latest question. I have too many scumreads right now so it's clear that at least one of them is wrong.

[massive]

What is the town motivation in Massive early claiming?

I'm pretty sure I've already said this, but: To push past the deadline no-lynch and let us start focusing on catching scum? My claim was at least a stretch target for the wagon D1, and definitely was D2. Why waste time waiting for people to come in and find lazy reasons to vote? And yet still somehow people have continued to push based SOLELY on my early claim, all the time without being able to say why it's scummy, instead saying "what's the town motivation?" when asked to give specifics. You and Aneninen sure have danced around that.

IF YOU CAN'T FIND TOWN MOTIVATION AND YOU CAN'T EXPLICITLY STATE THE SCUM MOTIVATION IT'S A NULL YOU BABOON OY

Aneninen

: Your post 1259 is an excellent summary of why you think a scum might claim VT. It has no answer to why claiming early is more beneficial to scum than claiming at L-1.

Besides Nero, who are your other scumreads?
If you refuse to answer this question once again, why are you doing so?

Probably you, between this and that Wall of WIFOM you just posted in response to Tattletale. I always find it interesting when someone is attacking one player in most of their posts, but voting someone else. If wgeurts is bussing me, I need to teach him how to not make horrible arguments when doing so.

I have Heartless and Death Stare as town. I would probably trust them enough to say Monkey is town as well. I'd like to see where Brian Skies ends up before deciding on him and sthar8. Leaning town on 50 Shades. Null on Davesaz and MTD. And I don't know that I'll ever feel confident in a wgeurts read because I honestly have no idea where he's coming from.

[Death Stare]

[Heartless]

I said I wanted to DANCE with you, not talk with you!

hey nero

don't be a dick

[Heartless]

That post from me was saying if DS flipped scum and monkey is scum DS voting Monkey would make Monkey look less scummy, that's what I think that meant.

hey

tth just called your case a bowl full of liquid shit

you have nothing to say about that?

[Heartless]

(4) If Sthar were scum he would have got rid of me at Night 1, before I start discovering the similarities between his gameplay here and his gameplay in the finished game.

anen

you weren't dying night 1 regardless of sthar's alignment

[Heartless]

Frankly, what would a scum!Sthar think at Night1? "Shyt, Aneninen might notice that I'm doing the same here. So, I let him alive because that idiot will post that I'm town because he hasn't been Nightkilled. Wow, such a perfect plan, mwahahahahaha!" How would this make any sense?

...

there's probably a universe where these sentences make sense

this one is not it

[Heartless]

Disagree. I think he's wrong about Sthar but scumreading the person that you think is attacking your teamate isn't some off the wall cray crayness. And scum often sheep so like that doesn't seem all that crazy either. Can you explain why you think its a bad post?

i don't think it's cray cray. i just think it's bad bad. the sthar read.

And if you aren't scumreading him then why are you being condescending and putting him down?

because the lines of thought he uses aren't well thought out or flow particularly well and it's annoying because i tend to think he's scum for it (and this is the

SAME kind of shit

he pulled last game where he went after me for it).

[MonkeyMan]

VOTE: Wgeurts

Appeal to emotion is not going to help you here. If you know you aren't playing well how come you aren't trying to fix it? What was with your vote? You didn't even give a real reason you just said it was because of ISO. What about the ISO exactly didn't you like?

Wrguerts is scum. How is that not obvious by now?

For real, what do I have to do to get people to talk to or about me?

Let's talk about your wgeurts read / vote. It seems rather disjointed, like you're not pressing it at all. That comes off as way too shallow for town. I see things I don't like about wgeurts, but I'd like to see some explanation from you that shows your read is genuine and not just a shot in the dark. You might be seeing the same things or different, which is fine either way.

Have you read his posts? They may as well all say: "I am scum."

Like the post right after this one. It is trying to connect me to someone else whom I have no connection too what so ever. I mean I doubt I have even said anything about the person they are talking about. Then you have the beginning of the game where I think they did new scum tells but everyone else just thought it was new tells in general and not because they are scum. I tried to think about other things other than them because I was about to tunnel them and they would just pursue me no matter what I did. They were trying to provoke me into tunneling them. They then have that oppurtinistic vote, which I pointed out first or second don't remember because someone might have ninja'd me, which looked really bad. They gave some bs excuse about just look at the person's ISO. They randomly claimed VT which means they had to believe there was a high chance of themselves being lynched and they didn't want that. I know no one wants to get lynched but a VT is the best town thing to lynch rather than any potential PRs and if you are just being scum read you are going to be a distraction for town in general so your only options are to step up your game and be the town person you were meant to be or get lynched so no one spends all this time thinking you are scum when they could very well use the time to find the actual scum.

[sthar8]

i'm not doing this today. i'll either be back tomorrow or i'll find a hydra partner or i'll replace.

[Brian Skies]

Spoiler: Here is why I voted Massive after an ISO

He stars by voting randomly in post 8. He then lurks for 100 posts and then moves on saying he doesn't like Monkey's play and that he agrees with DS's points on monkey. He votes MM in post 112 and goes and lurks for another 100 posts.

In post 225 he posts (sarcastic?) criticism on me and in his next post (265) he post nothing but fluff. Up to post 265 and he hasn't posted anything of use or real content what so ever.

The next post with anything useful in it is post 324 were he disagrees with Monkeys reads. He may still be voting monkey by that point but he still hasn't posted anything that can be called "a case" against him.
He suddenly starts becoming useful after post 593. Wherein he also seems to become defensive of Monkey where as he was still voting for him by then.

There is a huge gap off content after that until he votes Nero in post 623 and later in 1082. He also claims vanilla very early and tries to argue that he's a mis-lynch.
He then starts using the "you have no reason to vote me" argument which is also (IMO) horribly scummy. I lack a sense of desperation that a towny wants to show he's town and is fighting to show that. Massive is just kind off lazing around going "meh". This carries on all through out the game up to his most recent post.

Why is claiming you are a vanilla townie early scummy?

I'm actually interested in hearing this response because Wg claimed near deadline as well (although I don't currently know what L-x he was at).

(1) If Massive is scum, the counterwagon might have been Sthar8 and in this case, either 50Shades or Wgeurts is scum, or both of them. The scums might have gone for No Lynch instead of bussing because Massive is a scum-PR and avoiding his lynch was a priority. If both Massive and Wguerts are scum, the Mafia (it's 89% that there are 3 Mafias assuming there's no SK) must have advised Wgeurts to bus Massive on Day2. This may explain his Day2 vote.
(2) If Massive is town, the scums might have missed the opportunity of a mislynch because they weren't here. (Apart from Massive) three playes didn't post in the last 24 hours before Deadline: 50Shades, DeathStare and GreyFox (now BrainSkies). (MTD only posted a prod dodge but he could have moved his vote if he had wanted to.) However, many players weren't here in the last couple of hours – or at least it seems so.

1) I agree with you that Massive-scum might be indicative of Wgeurts-scum just based on the wagon Wgeurts ended up countervoting. However, I'm a little dubious of the townread Sthar has been advocating on Wgeurts.
2) I just think town failed to coalesce on one scumread. I'm not really convinced of Massive-scum because it conflicts with my Sthar/Wg scumreads, and my predecessor was showing signs of flaking from this game.

For real, what do I have to do to get people to talk to or about me?

Create a decent case, demonstrate you have developed reads that people can talk to you about, and/or stop cherrypicking things that look prima facie scummy.

I skipped most of the longer posts on this page, but I'm down with this.

Vote: Sthar

[Aneninen]

Aneninen

: Your post 1259 is an excellent summary of why you think a scum might claim VT. It has no answer to why claiming early is more beneficial to scum than claiming at L-1.

Claiming at L–1 is normal but noone is forced to claim anything at L–5. By the time you claimed it was very far from obvious that you would be quicklynched. I think that was nothing but a defensive move. Apart from Nero you posted no scumreads or anything which would help the town.

Besides Nero, who are your other scumreads?
If you refuse to answer this question once again, why are you doing so?

Probably you, between this and that Wall of WIFOM you just posted in response to Tattletale.¹ I always find it interesting when someone is attacking one player in most of their posts, but voting someone else.² If wgeurts is bussing me, I need to teach him how to not make horrible arguments when doing so.³

I have Heartless and Death Stare as town. I would probably trust them enough to say Monkey is town as well. I'd like to see where Brian Skies ends up before deciding on him and sthar8. Leaning town on 50 Shades. Null on Davesaz and MTD. And I don't know that I'll ever feel confident in a wgeurts read because I honestly have no idea where he's coming from.

I see. Now you ask and I answer. ^_^

(1) I think you meant TTH's long post here. I don't think that was a WIFOM. I only pointed out other possibilities. Frankly, what should I have done? Posting that I totally agree when I don't? Posting that I disagree without explaining why?

(2) Attacking? I thought we were talking. I'm voting for Wgeurts because according to my reads he's scum – regardless of your alignment. Since I explained my case (and I added some bits later too) he has done nothing that has changed my reads. However – even if it wasn't your intent – you pointed out something important. Maybe I should post more about Wgeurts because so far I've failed to persuade anyone to join me and wagon him. Even if many players have posted that he's possibly scum.
Also, there are things which are disturbing me. Eg. very few players are talking

with

you and I don't know why. Plus, right now I have too many scumreads, so it's clear that at least one of my reads are wrong. (I mentioned these things before.) In short, you're not my top scumread so, I find it more possible that I'm misreading you than I'm misreading Wgeurts. I'm talking with you to get as much information as I can so as to sort you. (As for my other scumreads if you're interested in: in two cases I'm waiting for their posts and I don't want to affect their behavior by posting about them right now. And there's someone who I think ignore me.)

(3) ...English is your native tongue, isn't it?

Let's talk about your other reads.
Why do you think that DeathStare is town and 50Shades is leaning town?
Why Davesaz is null?
What does BrainSkies's catch-up has to do with your Sthar read?

[Aneninen]

That post from me was saying if DS flipped scum and monkey is scum DS voting Monkey would make Monkey look less scummy, that's what I think that meant.

hey
tth just called your case a bowl full of liquid shit
you have nothing to say about that?

It was pigeon poop indeed. He completely ignored the possibility of a bus. (Or did I misunderstand his post?)
His other posts are null or scummy too. It's

okay

to use the "this is my first game here" on early-Day1 as an argument but, why is he telling it over and over on Day2? Is there anyone who doesn't know this piece of information? A weak post about Massive. Have I left out something?

Frankly, what would a scum!Sthar think at Night1? "Shyt, Aneninen might notice that I'm doing the same here. So, I let him alive because that idiot will post that I'm town because he hasn't been Nightkilled. Wow, such a perfect plan, mwahahahahaha!" How would this make any sense?

...
there's probably a universe where these sentences make sense
this one is not it

Read it again then.
Do you know what's nonsence? The logic I explained if Sthar had followed that.

Disagree. I think he's wrong about Sthar but scumreading the person that you think is attacking your teamate isn't some off the wall cray crayness. And scum often sheep so like that doesn't seem all that crazy either. Can you explain why you think its a bad post?

i don't think it's cray cray. i just think it's bad bad. the sthar read.

And if you aren't scumreading him then why are you being condescending and putting him down?

because the lines of thought he uses aren't well thought out or flow particularly well and it's annoying because i tend to think he's scum for it (and this is the

SAME kind of shit

he pulled last game where he went after me for it).

In short: you think I'm stupid (and even scum?) because I disagree with your Sthar read.
I'm asking this: apart from the "Sthar faked his V/LA and he was lurking" bullshyt, which I refuted, what's the case against him?
@50Shades, this question goes for you too!


I'm getting sick of it that I'm posting things and many of the players are simply ignoring them. I've NEVER said that all of my reads are correct, all of my ideas are superb. But, most of my posts remains un-discussed and my questions unanswered only because I'm considered to be an idiot.

________

@Monkeyman, Davesaz. I have an idea. Why don't you vote for Wgeurts? ^_^

@Sthar:

@BrainSkies: I've been scumreading Wgeurts for a while, regardless of his claim (though, it fits into the picture).
Also, why do you think Sthar is scum? What's your read on Wgeurts?