Through the Looking-Glass [Game Over]

[RedCoyote]

I'm claiming Hated Townie

.

I get lynched at L-1.

[RedCoyote]

VOTE: Nachomamma8 due to Kat's claim. If Nacho is town, we can lynch Kat tomorrow.

[RedCoyote]

wtf you're in this game??

Wait... did you not see my name on the player list when you were deciding which player to investigate?

[RedCoyote]

Coyote, kats is pretty obviously trolling :/.

Then why is he still voting Nacho?

[RedCoyote]

Is that an admission?

[RedCoyote]

I am really confused as to what is going on. Is Katsuki serious about Nacho being scum? If someone could just quickly tell me that would be amazing.

*shrug*

I don't know why I was expecting more from this game. In any case, I'm effectively an IC, so I'm just going to wing it for now until we thin the herd. I hate to lose Nacho, but if Nacho is scum he needs to go sooner rather than later so that I am not wiled by his charms. If Nacho is town, then we get to lynch Kat which is almost always a positive thing. It's a win-win in my book.

[RedCoyote]

I've never heard of a "novice cop".

[RedCoyote]

And a wiki search turns up nothing. What's your flavor, Mamma?

[RedCoyote]

I'm pondering on the odds that Kat just happened to out a cop role with his bullshit claim.

Why did Kat pick Nacho? Nacho doesn't need any help getting a target on his back. What the hell was he thinking?

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8

[RedCoyote]

who the fuck cares about guilties when lynching nacho?

he's a vi

only reason to keep him alive is he's a vi with a pr

What kind of nonsense is this? At the risk of coloring half my posts this game as being hot-for-Nacho, by no means is he a village idiot. He's one of the strongest players on the site, especially as town.

Kat, why should we not lynch you for being anti-town and because now everyone and their mother knows that you don't have any PR? What other damage will be wrought if we keep you alive?

[RedCoyote]

Oh, I take it it's an inside joke? I'm just skimming through.

SK, am I guilty of wanting to "punish" Kat for not playing to my standards? Are you?

[RedCoyote]

A wise man once said to lynch all liars. :/

...

...

...

Good thing I'm not wise!

VOTE: SleepyKrew

God help me, I like Kat's point better than SK's.

[RedCoyote]

Look, it's no secret I'm not reading too closely, but in a way I don't think I need to. I think SK showed his true colors a bit, even if it's a touch hypocritical for me to criticize someone for going along with Kat unabashedly. I think the difference between myself and SK though is that I never fought against Kat's claim prior to signing up for a Nacho lynch. SK did so virulently (see: 311, 331, 347, 486, 534, 535, 541). Then he had a change of heart by the time 552 rolls around. Then we get a Nacho vote to L-1 at 653. He then goes back to voting Kat in 809. This is quite a 360. Do you (you = anyone reading this) think it was a sincere one? One thing that bodes well in SK's favor is I do not know him to be the stubborn type. Sure, he may be persistent, but I don't think stubborn would be accurate. In other words I could see townSK going from one extreme to another.

This is not the best lynch I've ever seen, but one I'm content to go along with. Konowa and Froot Loop look to be alternatives. Anyone is welcome to try and convince me to join those in a calm, sensible way that's not a bunch of acronyms, inside jokes and subtext that I have to try and sort out. My impression of these wagons is that Konowa is now kind of yesterday's news in that he was suspected for chainsaw defense of Nacho and Froot Loop is suspected for a lot of IIoA and go-nowhere style content.

It seems completely reasonless

Lol.

[RedCoyote]

36 hours until deadline, folks. What are we doing?

[RedCoyote]

Hated scum in a FG game seems reasonable.

I read RC as town based on his play fwiw.

Nope. Havent got the sense of the "father figure" type he portrays as town and he has just ran the two biggest wagons without offering and reads of his own.

Compare Epicmafiatime and space invader's posting vs. Pokerface's mini. One makes you think he is trying to actually scumhunt and lead town to victory by being calm and at times, joking around. The other is where he lacks this poise he has as town and is just "mean" or just noncaring of the game.

Where do you get the impression I am being "mean" in this game? I've kind of bent over backwards to be sympathetic toward SK. This argument is silly, stop using meta. Get a real job.

And I sure as heck cared in PF's game. I was all over that game. In fact, I enjoyed it more because I was scum.

Also, show me one example of a hated scum... I've never heard of that before. And I'm not clever enough to come up with this fakeclaim. You're reaching, brother.

[RedCoyote]

So we're voting Bins because she's apathetic? Doesn't sound like a real winner of a case to me.

[RedCoyote]

Okay L-2 with less than 2 days left and I'm the only big wagon so
White Queen, VT
Hood as I said earlier is with Nacho and Empking

Nacho, why did you back off of this wagon so late in the game? At least Empking has always been against it.

[RedCoyote]

Fair enough. I do not think it's enough for me to move my vote at this time. I probably won't be around much as the deadline rolls up, but I might. May the best wagon win.

[RedCoyote]

I'm trying to convince myself to vote bins

I keep typing it out and backspacing it

notscience is notscum

Muffin and Nacho and Kat can all be town.

I don't know why everyone had a change of heart on SK

But, to be fair, I haven't examined him under a microscope. What I have read has been not so great. I am comfortable enough to continue riding this wagon.

[RedCoyote]

My Mafia intuition tells me that Bins is town. I will not stand in the way of her being lynched, but I do not sense anything sinister behind her posts. Call me a chump, but I like the gal.

I'm pretty sure we've all reached the "notscience is town" point

I haven't. But now I have. Better late than never? Also don't be arrogant.

[RedCoyote]

Also now that I am on record as having said it you can hold it against me if we're ever in lylo together, btw.

notscience: "RC you called me town on page 54!"

RC: "Damn, you're right, kid... let's vote together now. "

scum: "Wait... no! This can't be happening!"

*RC and notscience high five*

[RedCoyote]

well i dont particularly want to lynch sleepy even though better players are calling him scum/my

if not bins, i dunno

I said my piece. I won't stand in the way of Bins because she's a crap shoot, but you know where I stand.

[RedCoyote]

Also RC the only reason I'm townreading you is based on your claim js

*shrug*

As long as you're there, I don't care how you got there.

[RedCoyote]

notscience, you've never been keen on the SK wagon though, have you? What's your relationship with Kat been like over the course of this game?

[RedCoyote]

Regardless of the outcome, I am happy to see an serious alternative being tossed about.

DV is probably town, so I am curious to see where he'll shake out.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: a

[RedCoyote]

Empking is a bad lynch to rally around as a last minute thing, I think. Empking is the king of playing the same as both alignments. He's literally someone I aspire to be more like in that specific aspect play-wise. The reason I bring that up is because, as usual, I have no idea if this is scum or town Empking. Um, but I would say that someone that is as easy to understand and opinionated as Empking is is someone I would rather leave around longer. I think if we're playing with scumEmpking, he'll trip up eventually, so we don't need to take this chance.

I'm starting to become sort of one note in being supportive of only an SK lynch today. I do have a genuine scumread on Desp that I plan to look into (but I would be happy to see him lynched today). I am suspicious of Cho and Froot Loop, but I don't feel comfortable enough to pursue these leads at this time. I would be open to voting them, but I don't know or think the support is there.

[RedCoyote]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Brian
flail flail

You know I love you, don't you? I am so, so tempted to join you just to spite Brian for that naked vote. I'm in that mood, you know?

[RedCoyote]

Damnit, SK. If someone doesn't stop me, I'm going to let SK sweep me off my feet and carry me into the sunset here... He's saying all the right things now. My paranoid side is telling me that he's saying all the right things because he has to pull out all the stops, but I'm second guessing that side.

But I agree that if RC wants to OMGUS me, he might as well just doing it considering he's not willing to take a stance elsewhere.

lolwut

I have given reads on, like, 8 players, brother.

[RedCoyote]

Brian, I would like to play with you in a mini or a micro, I don't feel like this game really represents me as a player. Do you play smaller games ever?

[RedCoyote]

Tangent, but I just wanted to say it while I knew you were online!

[RedCoyote]

Innocent Child? The mod has said no such thing.

Even if that were the case, you vote someone else, not no lynch.

[RedCoyote]

Muffin should be pursued for encouraging a VT to hammer himself. Sal should be pursued for claiming Traitor to me overnight in his neighborhood.

My flavor claim is "Humpty Dumpty".

VOTE: Salamence20

We'll see if he denies it, but he was pretty clear about claiming a scum-Alice role to us last night.

[RedCoyote]

Who is in that neighborhood? Just you and Sal?

Me, Sal and Muffin.

[RedCoyote]

muffins was the most protown figure throughout our decision to lolwagon nacho can we not do our best to deplete this game of all the strong players first? (granted emp was a nice shot but still )


RC can you explain whats going on?

About what part? Muffin? I just don't trust the guy. I asked him why he voted no lynch yesterday and effectively forced a townie to hammer himself, and he said, to paraphrase, "lol it just means me and Nacho are too scummy to be scum " and after I told him I thought that was an anti-town way of playing he just dismissed me.

Further, I thought it weird he immediately tied himself to Nacho.

[RedCoyote]

Sal, you told me to read your last post in the neighborhood, but I'm not as swayed by your aggressive reaction tests since the last couple of completed games I've seen you as scum. In case you haven't noticed, I don't generally go for the whole, "It's so obvious I wouldn't do this as scum" WIFOM thing.

---

Kat, as I understand it, Sal claimed a traitor role. I asked him to clarify, and he reaffirmed that that's what he was and that he didn't expect us to both be town (?). I told him I would come after him. Now I think he's trying to get me to see it was all a fake claim so he could figure out if I was town or scum, but I don't really buy that.

[RedCoyote]

Vote: Empking

This is objectively the best lynch.

Low hanging fruit target noted.

Yikes, I just started reading Brian's ISO and this is the second post.

[RedCoyote]

UNVOTE: Salamence20; VOTE: zMuffinMan

DV sold me. Sal is like an abusive spouse... I just keep going back to him. Desp is probably bussing!

[RedCoyote]

I'd hammer Muffin if he gets there.

Just because.

I don't know what it is about Konowa, but he always gives me the willies. Even when he agrees with me and I want to like him for town, something about his syntax just comes across as scummy to me. I'll keep this under my hat.

---

Dude, not cool

Too soon? I knew I should've went with the rape joke instead.

---

DV sold you on what, exactly?

His call for a Muffin wagon.

---

I still don't like Cho, and I don't know if I ever will.

[RedCoyote]

VOTE: Cho

I have done a 180 on Sal. I believe him now. I also think we should be following where Froot Loop/Konowa were going, even though that kill may have more or less been a duh kind of thing.

unvote;
Vote: Cho

Backwards thinking, yo.

Stepping outside of my tunnel for a while.

unvote;
Vote: Brian Skies

Questionable: katsuki, zMuffinMan, Cho, bins
Town-Lean: konowa, sleey krew, TiphaineDeath
Nothing: desperado, Brian, DeasVail, Empking, natirasha
Don't Know: nacho, notscience, redcoyote

I don't know what the difference is between Nothing and Don't Know, but here it is, anyway.

Cho/Bins/Brian.

I want to lynch one of these three players today.

[RedCoyote]

VOTE: Brian Skies

Brian, why did you drop your power wagon on me? It seems like you kind of let it fall to the wayside as I go over your posts in isolation. Oddly enough, I was prepared to just go back on Cho, but Sal's shift forced me to look at you again. Your push on me and your push on DV both seem hollow and noisy-for-the-sake-of-being-noisy, if that makes sense.

[RedCoyote]

Vig should not claim.

[RedCoyote]

Scumfuck? Moi? I think not!

[RedCoyote]

I think notscience is town, Nat. I feel confident in that read.

I think Kat is town, but I am not confident in that read.

Why aren't you voting?

[RedCoyote]

I'm just sheeping atm because I don't raelly feel confident in my reads

So why haven't you done this then?

Someone go get this guy and drag him into this thread by his ear.

[RedCoyote]

Nat quit being a baby.

[RedCoyote]

DV quit sounding like scum (2131 "doesn't feel right to me" a.k.a. transparent lack of responsibility or acknowledgement that you still have time to push for something else if you truly thought this was a bad wagon in the same vein of what you did to Muffin a la 1365; 2138 "I'm given time to pass on the information" a.k.a. I'm setting up a softclaim so don't lynch me )

[RedCoyote]

Um, I have something to claim... but it's one of those things where it's like I don't want to put it out there I want someone else to describe it to me.

[RedCoyote]

If that makes sense.

[RedCoyote]

Also I definitely know where my vote is going barring any CC.

[RedCoyote]

Not a kill, uh, I was given information last night but I'm not saying any more than that. Someone else has to meet me halfway so I all three of us can hold hands and be town together.

[RedCoyote]

How confident are we that two Alices are scum? Are we just setup speculating because two of them are "fake"?

[RedCoyote]

Friendly neighbor

N1 targetted bins (crumbed by saying Hi Bins before the night went over, and not her first post of D2)

N2 I forgot to because lolinactibity

N3 I didn't crumb but targetted RC

Are you saying I was supposed to be in a neighborhood with you last night?

What does this role do?

[RedCoyote]

Because there's still a PR thing that happened last night that I do not understand and I don't really want to lynch until it is clarified. I don't want to say out loud what happened though I'm thinking it has to do with what notscience said in 2187.

[RedCoyote]

I'd kind of rather lynch Desperado today and go back to the Alice situation tomorrow. Everyone thinks Desperado is scum and I think even the scumteam is throwing him under the bus but trying to pivot toward lynching somewhere else... let me show examples of this:

Also, I am evaluating everything and Katsuki/Desp is my current scumteam idea, but I still have thinking to do.

But I digress--Salamence and probably Desperado.

By shear PoE we're looking at nati/sala/desp here I think.

I'm not saying these three players are all scum, but I do not think they're all town either. I think Desp is probably the weaker scum role/player left and is seen as more expendable so that's where I'd like us to go today.

[RedCoyote]

First question) Well, I guess that's a rhetorical question.
Second question) If you would've read the bottom of that post, I specifically said that I am not calling those three players scum, Desp. I'm just saying that everyone, town and scum alike, want you lynched. The town want you lynched because you're scummy (you've been hiding in the shadows this entire game and have no zest, ferocity or hutzpah whatsoever) and the scum team is probably throwing you under the bus for that same reason.
Third question) Don't know; don't care (at this point).

[RedCoyote]

I'm not going to play outguess the mod with you. I don't even know which players you are a referring to, and you don't even know my scumreads beyond you (I would assume).

[RedCoyote]

I thought you were a VT?

[RedCoyote]

Mmmmk

Red Knight, VT

[RedCoyote]

Oh, wait, I guess all the "reds" were in a neighborhood together, yeah?

[RedCoyote]

you have literally coasted on your hated claim all game

I know, isn't it great? It's so much less stress when you're essentially an IC, lol. You should try it sometime.

every single one of your votes has a) been on town

Except you conveniently left out my Sal vote. You even quoted me unvoting him!

b) been based on something someone else did

notscience is doing all the heavy lifting for me... how can I refuse that? Um, but, I disagree with the characterization. I would say I was a significant part in the Brian wagon, if not the main catalyst. Granted, the others were more influenced by others, but that's because things generally happened (I'm speaking to the SK and Nacho wagons) when I wasn't around early in this game because of the lol30pagestart.

you defended Emp

Big whoop, so did Brian and I even hit him on the head for that earlier. No one can read the guy (except, apparently, Nacho).

you're even now being unnecessarily cagey about notscience confirming himself as town to you even though he already claimed it

I'm trying to figure that out on my own. Unlike you, I don't know everyone's alignment, brother. I'm trying to get notscience to be crystal clear with how his role works. All of my posts today have had this theme in them. It's not unnecessary and it's not cagey. Goodness, do you see me voting notscience? Have you seen me say a cross word about notscience this entire game? He's my top damn townread and has been since, like, D1 (which I am on record as having said and can point out). Talk about a reach!

[RedCoyote]

Don't be thick.

every single one of your votes has a) been on town

Sal hasn't flipped, so that accusation is false. Period. That you didn't retract it immediately is suspect. Are you that hard up to try and get me lynched? I know you're desperate and I know you want to take advantage of me because I'm hated, but lol.

Are you seriously comparing Brian's one line challenge on Nacho on page 6 to the fucking soliloquy you wrote urging us to give Emp more time?

Being wrong /= being scum. By the way, why don't you show us all your Empking vote? Oh, wait, you don't have one and you never came out against Empking...

Notscience doesn't need to be any clearer about his role. He's a friendly neighbor. That's a role that does a specific thing that he has already claimed to have done to you.

This doesn't concern you, Desp. I want to talk to notscience. I've never even played with a "friendly neighbor" before.

[RedCoyote]

Red were you in another hood? Yes or no?

Also, if you were in his hood, FG has to tell you he is town if he is Friendly Neighbor.

Also, That ability can't exist with my ability, right? Two town neighborizers? Odd. Unless KATS wants to come out and claim that all three Alice's are neighborizers.

I was waiting for ns to clarify, but given what I know, I guess I don't really need him to talk. It looks as though whatever notscience did to me was his doing and not anyone elses given the claims we had. notscience's power gave me indisputable, mod-confirmed evidence that notscience is 100% confirmed town due to information I received overnight.

The reason I was waiting to say this was because I thought another player may have had a cop power of some sort that would only work for another player (e.g. player X investigates player Y but the results are shown to player Z). Maybe like a Mad Hatter role or something (I don't know the theme very well). Since no one claimed anything like that, and given ns' strange PR, and given the lack of me being in a neighborhood with ns last night, I can only conclude that whatever ns did was what caused the mod to give me this report.

In any event, that's all I had. If you want my opinion, let's rid ourselves of Desp and force the Alice situation to linger another night just to see what the scum do. Because it seems to me like the scum wouldn't want to kill me (hated) nor would the want to kill notscience. I guess DV would probably eat it by default, but still... I'm more confident that Desp is scum than I am deciding between Sal/Kat (unless it's both).

I do know I will not vote notscience or DV today under any circumstances. This is probably obvious, but I just wanted it to be out there.

[RedCoyote]

Anyway, I guess I don't need anything else.

VOTE: Desperado

Holler if you want me.

[RedCoyote]

Anyways I think this is the only play for today.

Vote: RC

You're just lynching me for being hated? Why didn't we do this earlier then? :/

It comes across as opportunistic for you to do this now, Kat. Like you want to buy one more day for Desp. I'm convinced Desp is scum for the mere fact that everyone here was falling over themselves to put Desp in their scumteam until I actually said, "okay, let's vote him". Now you and Nat are both backtracking!

[RedCoyote]

Anyway, whatever, notscience and DV will come to save the day as usual while Kat thinks up more ways to hurt our town.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, wait, I figured out something else. Desp claimed Red Knight, right? Check this out:

Dead:

SleepyKrew, who was

White Queen

, and

Town

Vanilla Townie

Empking, who was

White King

, and

Mafia

Goon

Nachomamma8, who was

White Knight

, and

Town

Novice Cop

TiphaineDeath , who was

Red Queen

, and

Mafia

Goon

Cho, who was

Red King

, and

Town

Vanilla Townie

What's missing here? The Red Knight. Look at the pattern though.

White King = Scum; Red King = Town
White Queen = Town; Red Queen = Scum
White Knight = Town; Red Knight = ???

[RedCoyote]

Anyways I think this is the only play for today.

Vote: RC

You're just lynching me for being hated? Why didn't we do this earlier then? :/

It comes across as opportunistic for you to do this now, Kat. Like you want to buy one more day for Desp. I'm convinced Desp is scum for the mere fact that everyone here was falling over themselves to put Desp in their scumteam until I actually said, "okay, let's vote him". Now you and Nat are both backtracking!

Nope, you're still wrong. I was in everyone's POE because there's nothing concrete to remove me from the lynchpool.

Fair enough. Since we can't remove you from the lynchpool, let's lynch you. Easy solution.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, wait, I figured out something else. Desp claimed Red Knight, right? Check this out:

Dead:

SleepyKrew, who was

White Queen

, and

Town

Vanilla Townie

Empking, who was

White King

, and

Mafia

Goon

Nachomamma8, who was

White Knight

, and

Town

Novice Cop

TiphaineDeath , who was

Red Queen

, and

Mafia

Goon

Cho, who was

Red King

, and

Town

Vanilla Townie

What's missing here? The Red Knight. Look at the pattern though.

White King = Scum; Red King = Town
White Queen = Town; Red Queen = Scum
White Knight = Town; Red Knight = ???

Or...each group of three contains one scum!

How many "groups" do you think there are? So I'm assuming then you think only one of the Alices is scum? What "group" am I in then? What other nursery rhymes have claimed?

[RedCoyote]

News flash, I've only been in any neighborhoods this game because Sal invited me. I wasn't in one by default. Your theory is shot. Now climb into the noose like a good scum.

[RedCoyote]

Can't DV shoot Desp if we want tonight?

I can agree to this, but then we have to lynch Kat based on what he's said today.

Anyone that hasn't obviously put me in the town category is suspect just based on the flips alone.

Oh, and btw, WHY WOULD I CLAIM HATED ON D1? I'm not smart enough to create a fakeclaim like that as scum.

[RedCoyote]

Someone tell me why Desp is town.

And also, Desp will probably only die if he's a VT if I shoot him. If he's scum he'll probably live.

Ah, okay.

Can't DV shoot Desp if we want tonight?

I can agree to this, but then we have to lynch Kat based on what he's said today.

Anyone that hasn't obviously put me in the town category is suspect just based on the flips alone.

Oh, and btw, WHY WOULD I CLAIM HATED ON D1? I'm not smart enough to create a fakeclaim like that as scum.

Not saying you can as scum, but if I can do it successfully twice as scum, you could easily do it here. Don't cut yourself short

I can talk a decent game but I don't have that kind of foresight. I think I've only came into a game with a fakeclaim as scum one time! And it wasn't as imaginative as a hated claim. Also, was there a hated role in the original Alice setup?

[RedCoyote]

Who was the third vote?

[RedCoyote]

Oh yeah, lol.

[RedCoyote]

DV knows me better than I do. <3

Yeah, I will vote Kat if y'all want me to. I guess shooting Desp is a good idea because even if DV is killed, we'll know for sure if he's (Desp) town or scum tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Desperado; VOTE: Katsuki

[RedCoyote]

Well, what can I say... it's nice being town

[RedCoyote]

Seriously though I am glad DV and Sal and Nat have played with me before because otherwise I would totally see them voting me. Desp, I know you've played with me before, too. So the fact that you're coming down so hard on me lets me know you're scum. I know it in every fiber of my being. I would bet a thousand dollars on it. I am so comfy right now!

[RedCoyote]

Oh, Nat...

[RedCoyote]

Did you not read with DV said, ffs?

[RedCoyote]

Whatever, I don't know if we can still win, but I think it's Desp and Kat.

[RedCoyote]

Great job, Kat. You did a heck of a job winning this one for your side. Not to take anything at all away from that, but when you have not one, but two, townies that hammer themselves... yeah... I guess that's just accepted practice in 2014 now. I think that's a pretty sad state of affairs for MS, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Much props to DV for keeping us in this one until the end. I think Sal/notscience played pretty good, too! Thanks FG for hosting. I've never been a hated role before, so it was a cool change of pace. I'd say gg, but I don't really feel as though it was a good game. I'm glad for the mod and whomever else was content with it though, but just me personally it was not the type of Mafia that I enjoy for the most part.

[RedCoyote]

Multiple players that weren't voting you were actively posting before you hammered yourself.

To answer your question though, in your shoes, in this scenario, as town, yes, I would prefer a NL to killing myself.

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, well, I mean, I didn't really go research it or anything, but I kind of figured it called for it. Plus I know I'm the type of player that is liable to attract votes, for better or for worse, so I figured getting that out there soon was the best bet.

BTW, FG, if/when you run any micros/minis, please put me on your list of interested parties.

[RedCoyote]

*shrug* I don't believe in that. I think that's a naive way to look at things, brother. Anything can happen in Mafia, especially over the course of a night phase.

I still love you, amigo. I just strongly disagree with your decision there and would strongly advise you against it in the future. If you get caught up into that, "I'm too scummy this game... the town would be better off without me... I'm just going to get lynched eventually ;_; *slit wrists*" mentality, then you need to snap out of it. Get away from the game for a while or something. If the town's going to lynch you, then the town's going to lynch you; don't help them do it!