Open 573: C9++

[MonkeyMan]

Self-voting outside of scum self-hammering is anti-town, that's why.

The demand also has yet to be fulfilled, so I will not accept a lynch at this point.

GIF and I are still in the process of syncing. Our reads have significantly progressed since daystart.

Why the hell do scum care if they are anti-town? Also, you just said you haven't voted yourself because you can't hammer yet said only scum should do that. You just claimed you were scum.

[Aneninen]

@DeathStare.
Your reply is terrible.

Your version about the Night2 events. Your reasons for voting for MonkeyMan. Plus, I'd like to see some answers for my questions asked in 1389.

It's pretty obvious from where I'm standing where the other kill went; it was protected by a doctor (which should not claim).¹ One thing I would like people to think about is who out of 50Shades and us would be more likely to be sent to make the kill if we're scumpartners.²
I've already outlined my MonkeyMan scumread here and here.³ The first one is self-explanatory (go look throughout somewhat-early D1 if your memory on it has waned. It took up enough space that quoting or posting links is going to be annoying for everyone involved), but the second one looks like newb-scum trying to find an excuse for townreading their partner.
Re: 1389

Wait-oh.
MonkeyMan had not posted anything about being a Roleblocker before you posted this. How do you know what happened at Night?!

It's not exactly hard to guess. GIF was the one who posted that, but the way MM was so overly eager to 1v1 us in this tunnelly way was a pretty heavy softclaim of a role guilty. A cop would've just outed their result if they were going to go on this route, so the only other option is a role blocker.⁴
The rest... I can't really answer. This is all GIF's territory and the amount of syncing we've done in the past forever is virtually nil.

To answer whoever's question
Who in this game would ask for a missing kill other than a roleblocker?⁵

(1) By using Ockham's Razor which one is more possible? (A) The Mafia Kill disappeared because of a Roleblocker targetted a Mafia (B) The Roleblocker blocked a town and there's a Doc who protected someone else. The only one who could confirm (B) would be the Doctor – if it exists at all –, and we all agree that he must not claim now. Therefore, your reasoning is not working.
(2) How does that make sense? If both of you are/were Mafia and you preformed the kill, we're back at MonkeyMan's explanation. And it's clear that the 50Shades kill was done by the Mafia.
(3) Is that your only argument against MonkeyMan? Haven't you ever seen a townie misreading someone? (Especially since you call him a bad player later!)
(4) MonkeyMan's gameplay would have too made perfect sense if he were a Cop. (Or, as a weak case though, it would have been also possible if were a VT.) It was

you

who mentioned that you had been roleblocked way before MonkeyMan claimed. Before this answer I thought that you knew about the roleblock because you have a town-PR but you haven't even tried to crumb or softclaim this possibility (that'swhy I've been waiting with my vote 'till now). Therefore, you must be the scum who performed the (blocked) Nightkill.

There are other things as well. For example, most of my questions about your setup speculation remained unanswered. You are constantly ignoring the possibility of an SK

now

,

yet

you told us in 1383 that

"the remaining mafia knows who the Serial Killer is."

(And, what if you

know perfectly

that there is only

one

remaining Mafia?!)
Also, 1441 is about discrediting MonkeyMan. Even if his post about self-voting was terrible (in 1447 – but that came

later

than your discrediting 1441!), his case is NOT. (MonkeyMan, apart from very strange situations – and this is not amongst them – self-voting never ever helps the town.)

VOTE: DeathStare

[sthar8]

And it's clear that the 50Shades kill was done by the Mafia.

I uh.... what?

[Aneninen]

F-ck, thanks for pointing it out.

Post-edit: And it's clear that the 50Shades kill was NOT done by the Mafia.
That's happening when I'm in a hurry to work.

[sthar8]

K, just making sure.

[MTD]

Self-voting outside of scum self-hammering is anti-town, that's why.

The demand also has yet to be fulfilled, so I will not accept a lynch at this point.

GIF and I are still in the process of syncing. Our reads have significantly progressed since daystart.

Why the hell do scum care if they are anti-town? Also, you just said you haven't voted yourself because you can't hammer yet said only scum should do that. You just claimed you were scum.

lolno, try reading.

So now, right now just about everything is possible rolewise?
with DS and MM, anything is possible (again).
I am lost on this.

[Death Stare]

Aneninen:

1. If you're going to just discount whatever I say, then why did you ask me what my version of night 2 was anyway? Imagine if you're town in this situation. Wouldn't you end up with the same conclusion?
2. Your response has nothing to do with what I said at all. I was asking which between 50Shades and us would send in the mafia kill.
3. After syncing with GIF and talking about the setup, we both believe at this point that it's nearly impossible for MM to be scum, so this is a moot argument anyway. There's only one possible way he's a mafia roleblocker, but that relies on terrible townplay (worse than I believe anyone here is capable of).
4. I already stated why a cop doesn't make sense. Debunk that argument and explain why it makes sense. Saying it makes perfect sense and not even addressing why I said it wasn't a strong possibility is badposting.

I fully believe GIF was referring to the white knighting statement with that advice. Also, GIF was the one who did all the setup-spec in thread. I didn't even read any of it.

I'm probably going to be unable to post for the next close to 12 hours. If we are hammered by that point, then town

NEEDS

to massclaim tomorrow.

[Death Stare]

One last note: if the last sentence happens, then you are most likely in MyLo. I believe this is a 3-man scumteam.

-Ank (last two are mine).

[Death Stare]

I realized while I was in the shower that GIF and I completely discounted the possibility of there no being a town roleblocker at all. We'll have to discuss this more while we finish syncing.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Lack of Heartless is saddening.

-Ank

[Aneninen]

@DeathStare:

(1) Read my last post again (1451). You shall find an answer there why I asked you about Night2. If I were to vote for you regardless of your answer I could have done so before your answer or without interacting with you at all. Also, your post about Night2 didn't contain certain possible scenarios.
(2) This point makes zero sense. The most probable sequence of events was the following: you sent the Nightkill and it was blocked by MonkeyMan. 50Shades was killed by either the SK or a Vig.
(3) If you think it's nearly impossible that MonkeyMan is scum, why are you voting for him? Besides, if he were a Mafia Roleblocker, it would have been much better for him not to do anything.
(4) I still disagree with that. I've already explained this before.

Also, 3-man scumteam? You talked about a 2-man Mafia team before. Or do you mean an SK included? You ignored this possibility in your explanation post. Unless I'm misreading your posts, you're contradicting yourself.

[MonkeyMan]

Would it be anti-town for Death Stare to say where they think the kill went?

[davesaz]

There have to be 5+ town PR to get 3 scum with a godfather.

[sthar8]

Would it be anti-town for Death Stare to say where they think the kill went?

No. Scum already have that information, so speculating on it doesn't give them anything new.

[MonkeyMan]

Alright Death Stare, who do you think the person who was shot at was?

[Ankamius]

Aneninen: You ignored my requests (2 and 4). I was explaining my point and asking for yours in 4 and straight up asking a question in 2. Dont blow them off.

@3: forgot since I was in a hurry. I'll unvote (and quote this post) on the hydra account when I have access to a computer.

@1: There indeed are other scenarios. The ones I saw (like another roleblock or no kill) simply make no sense.

MonkeyMan: I'd have to talk to GIF to give a better answer, but off the top of my head, I would say Heartless or MTD.

davesaz: There is nothing else that makes sense to me except DRTTTTT.

[MonkeyMan]

It's pretty obvious from where I'm standing where the other kill went

You say it was so obvious where the kill went yet you think it was to two people? How does that make any sense. I was lead to believe you would give one answer but yet you gave to and said: "I need to talk to my partner to give a better answer."

You are scum.

[Heartless]

what am i doing?

what's my name?
who am i?

[Heartless]

Lack of Heartless is saddening.

-Ank

/hasn't said a word to us since the beginning of the game

el-oh-el

VOTE: deathstare

[Brian Skies]

I'm tempted to call Nero Cain and massive town from that flip, though.

Why?

Also everybody on the yoggreuts wagon now has NO proficiency cred. That was fucking awful and you should feel bad.

Knowing that mollie jumped onto the massive wagon after pressure might tell us something though, I'm just not sure what yet. My first inclination is that it means massive is town.

Why town? Mollie was clearly calling Massive scum but was hesitant to vote. Why do you think that isn't not wanting to vote a scumbud?

She thought Massive was scum? I thought she was twisting the Massive argument into a Sthar scumread?

1) I'm willing to be flipped for the sake of people puzzlesolving, but does my townflip condemns MonkeyMan?
2) SK has only 1 bulletproof and since wugerts was roleblocked N1, that means SK didn't kill or mafia hit a bulletproof SK.

1) I'm not aware of any way your townflip would condemn MonkeyMan. Maybe an investigation result or setup speculation.
2) We don't know if there are other roles affecting the kills. We could have a vig, or there could be a doc or other power role interfering with the kills. I agree with Sthar that a massclaim should happen at some point.

MonkeyMan had not posted anything about being a Roleblocker before you posted this. How do you know what happened at Night?!

Probably the way he targeted DeathStare and proceeded to make a case fit a read rather than the other way around. Or at least, this is why I think MonkeyMan's claim is probably legit.

There are more problems with this specualtion.
(1) You ruled out 0T, T and 2T because of "flipped townies". There are two flipped VTs so, your logic makes no sense here.
(2) Where is the missing kill of Night1? What if there's a 1-shot Vig? What if there's a Vig who didn't kill? What if there's a Doc? What if the SK and the Mafia both targetted TSO?
(3) Why do you think that we have more than 1 Town Roleblocker? If we have one Roleblocker that one is NOT 1-shot and it must be MonkeyMan.
(4) Crosskill both Nights? How do you know that? TSO was VT, how on Gods' Green Earth could it have been a Crosskill?! Had the SK targetted a Mafia at Night1, a Mafia would have died. Had the Mafia targetted the SK at Night1, there should have been 2 kills at Night2. (Regardless of their target.)
(5) Why does the Mafia know who the SK is?

1) I think he misunderstood how the setup was determined and thought the T's were represented by the VT's in the setup.
3) Well, if he's town and thinks Monkeyman could be a roleblocker, I think this is a fair conclusion to come up with.
Everything else in his theory is based on these two points. The crosskill doesn't make sense, and I think he just means mafia hit SK night 1 and SK hit mafia night 2.

Well obviously PGO isn't in the game so him fake claiming PGO looks like a vig/sk claim. So I think he did kill 50 and you are obviously lying about blocking him.

but if Monkey is scum and is basically fakeclaiming then that would be pretty much suicide me thinks unless he has a scumbuddy left so I'm of the mind to lynch not Monkey/DS today.

? If MonkeyMan really did roleblock DeathStare, then DeathStare can't be the vig/SK (or at least not the person who killed Purple).

And the PGO thing just looks like a joke, not a fake-claim.

You know that thing that I said about Mollie being scum 'cause town Mollie doesn't town read me? Yea,

skies is guilty of the same thing

And you're making this accusation based on what? Two large games I replaced out of on Day 1? As if even if it were true, I couldn't change my perspective of you? I remember notscience getting paranoid of me in a game for a similar reason, but it pretty much boiled down to me trying to figure out how to read him.

like Massive is still scummy 'cause that early d2 claim is still not town

and he's not doing much hunting at all.

I'll buy the bolded part. The first part is still just really 'meh' for me.

Every player currently alive gives their opinion on the current situation and a read on us.

Town. But I've already proven the unreliability of my reads and we could do worse than sheep a claimed roleblocker.

One last note: if the last sentence happens, then you are most likely in MyLo. I believe this is a 3-man scumteam.

With one scum already flipped?

[Death Stare]

Aneninen: You ignored my requests (2 and 4). I was explaining my point and asking for yours in 4 and straight up asking a question in 2. Dont blow them off.

@3: forgot since I was in a hurry. I'll unvote (and quote this post) on the hydra account when I have access to a computer.

@1: There indeed are other scenarios. The ones I saw (like another roleblock or no kill) simply make no sense.

MonkeyMan: I'd have to talk to GIF to give a better answer, but off the top of my head, I would say Heartless or MTD.

davesaz: There is nothing else that makes sense to me except DRTTTTT.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

It's pretty obvious from where I'm standing where the other kill went

You say it was so obvious where the kill went yet you think it was to two people? How does that make any sense. I was lead to believe you would give one answer but yet you gave to and said: "I need to talk to my partner to give a better answer."

You are scum.

Either you're misunderstanding or misreping. It's pretty clear that I meant doc-protected.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

One last note: if the last sentence happens, then you are most likely in MyLo. I believe this is a 3-man scumteam.

With one scum already flipped?

You are correct. Ignore the MyLo statement.

-Ank

[Death Stare]

UNVOTE: MonkeyMan

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Lack of Heartless is saddening.

-Ank

/hasn't said a word to us since the beginning of the game

el-oh-el

VOTE: deathstare

Since when commenting on a player required to talk to them first?