Open 573: C9++

[Death Stare]

I was lead to believe you would give one answer but yet you gave to and said: "I need to talk to my partner to give a better answer."

FTR, we were syncing for a while yesterday and never finished. We have a bunch of reads that differ from each other and we haven't butted heads around large chunks of the game yet.

-Ank

[MonkeyMan]

You want to know how it should be super obvious this is a scum lynch? The lynch hasn't happened yet and scum would easily be willing to lynch town based off of a RB claimed block.

[Death Stare]

You want to know how it should be super obvious this is a scum lynch? The lynch hasn't happened yet and scum would easily be willing to lynch town based off of a RB claimed block.

Or all scum are already on the wagon.

-Ank

[Brian Skies]

^

[MonkeyMan]

monkey, dave, anen, heartless

Show me where the scum is in there.

[Jingle]

Vote Count 3.3

Twilight and evening bell,
And after that the dark!
And may there be no sadness of farewell,
When I embark
-Alfred Tennyson

Death Stare (2): MonkeyMan, davesaz, Aneninen, Heartless
Nero Cain (1): massive
MonkeyMan (0):
massive (0):
sthar8 (0):
davesaz (0):
Heartless (0):
Brian Skies (0):
Aneninen (0):
MTD (0):
No Lynch (0):
Not Voting (8): Nero Cain, sthar8, Brian Skies, MTD, Death Stare

With 10 alive, it is 6 to Lynch or No Lynch.

It is now Day 3. Deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2014-11-05 17:00:00) at 6:00 PM on Wednesday, November 5th Pacific Time.

Flavor tomorrow.

[massive]

Well obviously PGO isn't in the game so him fake claiming PGO looks like a vig/sk claim. So I think he did kill 50 and you are obviously lying about blocking him.

but if Monkey is scum and is basically fakeclaiming then that would be pretty much suicide me thinks unless he has a scumbuddy left so I'm of the mind to lynch not Monkey/DS today.

Is it just me, or is this trying REALLLLY hard to avoid having to make a stand on Monkey / DS?

monkey, dave, anen, heartless

Show me where the scum is in there.

Dave is scum, Anen is SK? Do you have town reads on every single one of those three?

I think Monkey is town. He had been fairly town leading up to today, and I don't see any reason why scum would gambit in this situation. It's possible they didn't even learn about the extra killer until daybreak today, so Monkey would have had to come up with this gambit on his own, and the posts read more like a townie who thinks they've caught scum.

The problem is, roleblocker "guilty" is a lot more subjective than cop guilty. It's easy to see why Monkey wants to be right, because then he's caught a scum and is helping contribute to the town win. It's easy to see why HE believes in the black-and-white nature of his action. But that doesn't override previous town feelings about Death Stare (for me) and his case feels very much like he's trying to shoehorn anything in to prove his closely-held belief of a guilty result.

Trying to think what that means for Nero. His desire to stay away from Monkey / DS is probably smart but his logic to get there is horrible. Maybe he's just Horrible Logic Nero.

[Death Stare]

monkey, dave, anen, heartless

Show me where the scum is in there.

I mainly posted that to show that your logic is off. What I think is more likely is that it is correct if it's a 2-man scumteam or wrong if it's a 3-man scumteam. I find it more likely with a 3-man that one scum is looking to try to resist the wagon to gain towncred when we flip town.

but if Monkey is scum and is basically fakeclaiming then that would be pretty much suicide me thinks unless he has a scumbuddy left so I'm of the mind to lynch not Monkey/DS today.

Is it just me, or is this trying REALLLLY hard to avoid having to make a stand on Monkey / DS?

GIF finds it very likely that Nero is SK if we have one, so it makes sense that he'd rather not resolve this WIFOM immediately.

-Ank

[Nero Cain]

The first part is still just really 'meh' for me.

naw, there was 0 reason to early claim like that. 'cause it gives scum information they didn't have and there's no reason to claim unless he's for sure getting lynched, which he wasn't.

Is it just me, or is this trying REALLLLY hard to avoid having to make a stand on Monkey / DS?

except this isn't true, just like it wasn't true that I didn't have a scumread on wegurts. Keep trying little scumbag.

[Nero Cain]

GIF finds it very likely that Nero is SK if we have one, so it makes sense that he'd rather not resolve this WIFOM immediately.

yes, I'm obviously sk and my motivation to not get a claimed rber lynched/ sk suspect lynched is what?

Tell GIF to start using his brain.

[MTD]

MonkeyMan: I'd have to talk to GIF to give a better answer, but off the top of my head, I would say Heartless or MTD.

No idea why I would be killed at this point... (don't explain though)

Lack of Heartless is saddening.

-Ank

/hasn't said a word to us since the beginning of the game

el-oh-el

VOTE: deathstare

Uh, can you please say something about that? Is there any

reasoning

to this vote?

You want to know how it should be super obvious this is a scum lynch? The lynch hasn't happened yet and scum would easily be willing to lynch town based off of a RB claimed block.

Why would scum put another vote on the wagon to make it L-1 when they can equally well wait for the possibility to hammer? (yes I think one scum may very well be on there already (counting SK as town for the moment))

Is it just me, or is this trying REALLLLY hard to avoid having to make a stand on Monkey / DS?

No comment on me not taking a stance on it?

The problem is, roleblocker "guilty" is a lot more subjective than cop guilty. It's easy to see why Monkey wants to be right, because then he's caught a scum and is helping contribute to the town win. It's easy to see why HE believes in the black-and-white nature of his action. But that doesn't override previous town feelings about Death Stare (for me) and his case feels very much like he's trying to shoehorn anything in to prove his closely-held belief of a guilty result.

I don't really understand this paragraph.
Are you just saying you think MM overestimates the RB utility?

[MTD]

fucked up tags, you'll get it

[Nero Cain]

Nero: Why do you think 50 Shades having "no read" on someone is more important than, say, who they were town-reading? Or why? And why are you quoting a reads list from before N1? (It still has TSO in it which is how I know.)

'cause it skirts the whole "not talking about your scumbuddy" think which alot of ppl think is scummy but gives no game related info. Also Nachomollie was still scum on d1 so I see no reason I shouldn't use her day 1 words. Why do you think I should avoid her d1 play in evaluating possible buddies?

[MTD]

GIF finds it very likely that Nero is SK if we have one, so it makes sense that he'd rather not resolve this WIFOM immediately.

yes, I'm obviously sk and my motivation to not get a claimed rber lynched/ sk suspect lynched is what?

Tell GIF to start using his brain.

DS is a SK suspect?

[Nero Cain]

So, massive is still scum.

Like I prob wouldn't give a shit if GIF got lynched mainly 'cause his offering himself up for a lynch is rather dumb but MM blocking GIF isn't 100% proof positive and conf scum was voting that so it makes me a lil' uneasy. Maybe a bus idk....

[Nero Cain]

monkey,

dave

, anen, heartless

Show me where the scum is in there.

So you don't think Dave's hard defense of Mollie could be a scumbuddy?

[massive]

Why do you think I should avoid her d1 play in evaluating possible buddies?

Why do you think you should ONLY use her D1 play in evaluating her possible buddies?

And are you saying you weren't avoiding being involved in MM v DS? Or are you saying you weren't trying hard?

[Nero Cain]

I'm saying that I wasn't avoiding being involved in the DS/MM discussion.

Who do you think are Mollies scumbuddies and why?

[davesaz]

OK, this is taking too long. This might mean there really are more town roles in play, in which there could be a chance DS is town.
I'm working and don't have time to post my entire SK case all at once. I'll start by crumbing. It's helpful to see if anyone else sees it without the full evidence.

Who was extremely pissed off at the start of D2? Who was especially pissed off at mollie? Who said that mollie and TSO are the best people at reading them from meta? Who used a AtE to try to deflect a case where their scum meta might apply. (where SK would be included in scum) One person meets all of these statements. One person with motive to kill TSO and then retaliate against mollie after having bulletproof popped.

[massive]

You mean besides you?

I could see davesaz as a possibility. He has better reasons to vote you (in 234) than he does Monkeyman in 237, but votes MonkeyMan. Concern about being seen as town in 381. Magical townreading of 50 Shades in 517. Jumping to 50 Shades defense (but to be fair your vote is rubbish) in 524. ... honestly I started skimming his ISO here because his biggest redeeming quality is that he thinks you're Horrible Logic Nero probably as much as I do. But he then goes on to sit repeatedly and for long periods of time on wgeurts over multiple days and we know how that ended up, and jumping on the easy Death Stare wagon today isn't exactly much more than sheeping, despite making a big deal about the level of people's scumhunting (including mine) as he was holding onto his vote.

It just makes me feel icky on the outside to think I might agree on that front with you.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up. (I've had busy days. Work, learning, everything, oh and protesting against the Internet Tax – if you lived here you'd understand it.)

@DeathStare, 1465 – I ignored nothing. As for (2), either I misunderstood your reasoning or it made no sense. (You didn't ask any qustions there). In (4) we have different opinions about MonkeyMan's gameplay. He's a newer player I don't know too much about. If he were an experienced one I'd say he wouldn't have a gameplay like this as a Cop/VT/Anything.

monkey, dave, anen, heartless
Show me where the scum is in there.

Actually Massive has a point in 1481. I've been scumreading Davesaz for a long time –

I'm unwilling to post about this only because of MonkeyMan's case.

I needn't to be cautios, someone else has already posted the backbone of the things – see below! Yes, in theory DeathStare's version makes sense too but, if we use Ockham's Razor, MonkeyMan's explanation is much more likely. (Also, see below!)
I don't think Heartless is scum but of course I don't have solid proofs.
As for me, I'm town – but I know that apart from my words there are no proofs for that too. I also know that my Day2 didn't earn me town credits at all...

DS is a SK suspect?

That is very unlikely. They must be Mafia. Yet again, in a nutshell: they talked about being roleblocked before MonkeyMan claimed that role and I'm not convinced that it was obvious that MonkeyMan is a roleblocker before he claimed it. In theory, they might have a town-PR but in that case it would be a terrible gameplay NOT to provide at least a subtle hint about it.
@Everyone: proove me if I'm wrong.

Who was extremely pissed off at the start of D2? Who was especially pissed off at mollie? Who said that mollie and TSO are the best people at reading them from meta? Who used a AtE to try to deflect a case where their scum meta might apply. (where SK would be included in scum) One person meets all of these statements. One person with motive to kill TSO and then

retaliate against mollie after having bulletproof popped

.

WHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT????!!!!!!
And how exactly on Gods' Green Earth does that part makes sense?

You mean besides you?
I could see davesaz as a possibility. He has better reasons to vote you (in 234) than he does Monkeyman in 237, but votes MonkeyMan. Concern about being seen as town in 381. Magical townreading of 50 Shades in 517. Jumping to 50 Shades defense (but to be fair your vote is rubbish) in 524. ... honestly I started skimming his ISO here because his biggest redeeming quality is that he thinks you're Horrible Logic Nero probably as much as I do. But he then goes on to sit repeatedly and for long periods of time on wgeurts over multiple days and we know how that ended up, and jumping on the easy Death Stare wagon today isn't exactly much more than sheeping, despite making a big deal about the level of people's scumhunting (including mine) as he was holding onto his vote.
It just makes me feel icky on the outside to think I might agree on that front with you.

That's it!
That's f-cking it!
I told you a couple of days ago or so that I had NOT forgotten about that Chainsaw. Plus, I think he's been sheeping me both on Day2 and now. (Trying to be appeasing?) And he's just crumbing an SK-case against my second best townread (MonkeyMan is the 1st one, obviously), most probably building up a case against someone who had been a scumread by many players before.

[Nero Cain]

but to be fair your vote is rubbish

a vote on scum isn't rubbish.

[Death Stare]

Aneninen:

@2: This is what I'm asking you: Assuming that 50Shades and this slot are a scumteam, which slot do you believe would have went to kill someone?
@4: You basically just described why it doesn't make sense for MM to be anything but a roleblocker. GIF's read on MM in day 1 changed considerably after finding out that he was a new player instead of this guy. Considering the level of play consistent with newer players, he's most likely to posture first for a pseudo-guilty and claim outright for a guaranteed guilty. With this in mind, how is it not reasonable for us to figure out he's a roleblocker before he claims it?

-Ank

[Death Stare]

Why does every link to a post in this thread on this page lead to the OP?

-Ank

[Nero Cain]

^ noticed the same thing. Will have to make sure but I don't think that's his first post with dead links.