Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)


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Post Post #800 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:41 am

Post by Newbie »

In post 741, Mathdino wrote:
This pinged me; I can't say I'm comfortable with this part of the post. This read seems much more IIOA and summary than any sort of analysis, and really comes across to me as fencesitting. At any point you can make a stance on SilverWolf and it'd still be consistent with this post. Do you
have
a read on her, Newbie?


Quite honestly, the way people jumped on SW seemed really opportunistic with some flimsy reasons, but like I said, the way that she overreacted to the heat was a little off settling. My read on her is null at the moment.

In post 741, Mathdino wrote:
Here's my other issue with your post, Newbie.
You're on the fence with literally almost everyone in this game
, it's mostly just "this is a good point, this is a not-so-good point" but I got nothing out of reading that, not even where you stand, which defeats the purpose of reads list. Furthermore I'm not even convinced by anything you've said since you don't have a stance to really argue for. There's MORE than enough information in this game to come up with something but I'm not even sure who you'd be for or against lynching, and we're nearing deadline fast.


I purposefully did my reads like this. I figured noting the townish and both scummy things that everyone has done would help me to avoid confirmation bias on thinking someone is scum.

In post 741, Mathdino wrote:
Here's another question, since you apparently liked the post where I asked something like this. Who are your top 2 candidates for lynching (outside of policy)? What other suspicions were you talking about here?


Malakittens is my only current top candidate right now. I don't like how she with
complete
certainty
declared that wgeurts was just a frustrated townie right away, but seemed to soft push him as a possible mafia member a couple of posts later. She also told people to unvote but then said this.

Also, I was talking about FinnLaw in that post, but it fell through because he started to look town.

In post 741, Mathdino wrote:
Addendum because I don't feel like putting it above: I have a fleeting suspicion that Newbie went with this reads list because she felt compelled to in order to be active and provide thoughts, not because it really helps scumhunt. Reading through her ISO gives me a definite feel of
fencesittiness on anyone that she's not currently voting on.

Since we're nearing deadline I'm not going to push a Newbie lynch (and I still have to look over Victor) but I think this stuff should be kept in mind just in case. Very much beginning to rethink my read on her in light of Silver's meta and what people are reading off her AtE stuff.
Oh, yeah,
FoS: her
.


There's no fencesitting with people my votes aren't on. I just literally have trouble focusing on different aspects at the same time and not tunneling. If I feel someone is scum, I put my vote on them and go from there. That's what I'm used to and how I've basically always played since I've started mafia forum games.
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Post Post #801 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:59 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 791, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:
So I'm being voted for some bullshit regarding my interpretations of what scum do?

No? Read again.
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Post Post #802 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:00 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 794, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Wisdom, I agree, I've been thinking about riddleton's hyper defense on me and I'm not sure what to make of it.
I think your guy's case and reasoning is incredibly idiotic, but that will be proven in due time with my flip.

How is it idiotic exactly?
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Post Post #803 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:02 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 796, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:
Until that quote you showed me, I really didn't have any problems with Constantine. I'm on the fence now that you've shown me, and will need to re-evaluate my stance tonight in light of the new information.

This is the stem of my frustration. Suddenly agreeing with wisdom after three pages of pushing his case that I'm town, and now he's saying he's on the fence. Bullshit!

Yes, the sudden switch doesn't sit well with me either.
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Post Post #804 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:07 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 793, Riddleton wrote:Because those reasons don't exist for Victor-Town. There are more compelling points for Victor from my POV, 5, than for him as town, which is 1 (his later posts are less content-less than earlier posts).


There exist such reasons actually. In fact, any action from any player you might take, you can find possible town and scum motivations for it. The strange thing here is that you were willing to do so for Constantine, showing that you are capable of looking at something from both angles, but you're not doing it at all for Victor.
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Post Post #805 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:08 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 789, acryon wrote:I am not OK with a PL. I have had plenty of off-games, and at the moment, it seems pretty clear to me that this is one of those for you (at least in that instance). I would hope we can do better than choosing to lynch someone based on a simple mistake.

This feels a little off considering you've been scumreading his slot for the whole game. What was the point you stopped scumreading SW?
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Post Post #806 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:10 am

Post by Wisdom »

I'd be okay with a Riddleton flashwagon at this point. Dunno if it's viable given the deadline, but if there's support for such a thing, count me in.
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Post Post #807 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:14 am

Post by acryon »

In post 794, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Wisdom, I agree, I've been thinking about riddleton's hyper defense on me and I'm not sure what to make of it.
I think your guy's case and reasoning is incredibly idiotic, but that will be proven in due time with my flip.

Your flip actually has nothing to do with how sound the reasoning is, so don't try and say that as the answer to the case. You can have a good scum-case on a player that flips town. Just because it didn't turn out doesn't mean it was bad. If you think the case is so bad, then explain why, don't just say that the flip will prove it.

In post 805, Wisdom wrote:
In post 789, acryon wrote:I am not OK with a PL. I have had plenty of off-games, and at the moment, it seems pretty clear to me that this is one of those for you (at least in that instance). I would hope we can do better than choosing to lynch someone based on a simple mistake.

This feels a little off considering you've been scumreading his slot for the whole game. What was the point you stopped scumreading SW?

I never said I was town-reading him. I am merely giving him the pass for , and making clear that I don't like the idea of PLing him ever because of that mistake. He is not off of my radar, but I would
much
rather pursue Constantine-scum at the moment than Riddleton-scum.

In post 806, Wisdom wrote:I'd be okay with a Riddleton flashwagon at this point. Dunno if it's viable given the deadline, but if there's support for such a thing, count me in.

This seems silly to me. You would rather go with a Riddleton wagon that Constantine(scum-read) would presumable be a part of than the Constantine wagon that Riddleton is questioning? If anything, I would say that there is a much greater chance that town-Riddleton is playing devil's advocate on a scum-Constantine wagon than Constantine-town is pushing a scum-Riddleton wagon.
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Post Post #808 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:17 am

Post by Wisdom »

If a player can play devil's advocate on wagon A why not do it for wagon B?

It makes much more sense that he's WKing wagon A for cred so he can push wagon B tomorrow.
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Post Post #809 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:20 am

Post by acryon »

In post 808, Wisdom wrote:If a player can play devil's advocate on wagon A why not do it for wagon B?

It makes much more sense that he's WKing wagon A for cred so he can push wagon B tomorrow.

What wagon B? Or are you just implying it as any wagon? And I think the problem is that so much of that theory has to do with Constantine's flip. I am totally fine revisiting that tomorrow, but it seems silly to vote for the wagon that has dependents yet to resolve over the wagon that is independent.
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Post Post #810 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:27 am

Post by Wisdom »

No. I'm talking about Victor wagon. The way he is tunneling on Victor does not make sense given he apparently does consider how scummy actions can have come from town.
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Post Post #811 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:31 am

Post by acryon »

In post 810, Wisdom wrote:No. I'm talking about Victor wagon. The way he is tunneling on Victor does not make sense given he apparently does consider how scummy actions can have come from town.

Ok, that does make a little more sense, but I still think that Constantine is by far the better lynch given the reasons I explained in my last couple posts. The Constantine case doesn't get much if anything from a Riddleton flip. The Riddleton case would gain quite a bit from a Constantine flip. Given the thought that both could be scum, it makes more sense to go for Constantine today.
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Post Post #812 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:33 am

Post by Wisdom »

Dunno, the fact Constantine picked up on how this WKing and sudden switch looked bad kinda made me get cold feet because I totally agree
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Post Post #813 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:37 am

Post by acryon »

In post 812, Wisdom wrote:Dunno, the fact Constantine picked up on how this WKing and sudden switch looked bad kinda made me get cold feet because I totally agree

What??? He didn't pick it up; YOU picked it up. HE agreed.
In post 785, Wisdom wrote:This unwarranted imo defense of Constantine by Riddleton troubles me. If Constantine is actually town, Riddle might be scum going for the cred. And gain further momentum to push Victor on D2.

In post 794, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Wisdom, I agree, I've been thinking about riddleton's hyper defense on me and I'm not sure what to make of it.
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Post Post #814 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:38 am

Post by Wisdom »

I didn't mention anything about the switch though
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Post Post #815 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:44 am

Post by acryon »

In post 814, Wisdom wrote:I didn't mention anything about the switch though

Well regarding that, I don't even know that really happened. Can you point me to some dramatic switch from him? Him switching at all just means you were doing a good job convincing him, and isn't that kind of your goal? Why would you try to convince someone of something and then back off when you have finally convinced them? Being unwilling to ever change stance and being unwilling to be convinced isn't any more town than being convinced and changing your mind based on someone's case is scum.
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Post Post #816 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:47 am

Post by Wisdom »

The switch was "oh I didn't see that post, maybe you're right, I'll reconsider". It feels off after he insisted so much about how Constantine is town. Besides, I doubt he didn't see that post before, as he posted about it.
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Post Post #817 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:49 am

Post by acryon »

In post 816, Wisdom wrote:The switch was "oh I didn't see that post, maybe you're right, I'll reconsider". It feels off after he insisted so much about how Constantine is town. Besides, I doubt he didn't see that post before, as he posted about it.

Eh, idk. I just don't see a scum-incentive whatsoever to lie in that situation. If his goal was to question the wagon and WK as scum, then it would have made far more sense to just stick to it and disagree with you, not concede that he made a mistake.
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Post Post #818 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:53 am

Post by St Constantine the Hermit »

I'm scumreading Victor more than Riddleton, but I would feel at least semi confident joining a wagon on him if the Victor lynch doesn't work out.
Show
Aye, let old constantine spin ye a tale...

Book of Constantine (Protestant) 214: 112 - God hates you
Book of Constantine (Catholic) 214:112 - God doesn't like you
Book of Constantine (Orthodox) 214:112 - God tolerates you
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Post Post #819 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:53 am

Post by reinoe »

MOD STUFF
Phone posting. Finnlaw has requested replacement. Deadline may or may not be extended.

Image
OK I'm not at work anymore and can add the appropriate amount of silliness. Finnlaw asked to be replaced! He's given up on being FinnLaw and has decided to become Finnillegal!!
Last edited by reinoe on Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #820 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:55 am

Post by St Constantine the Hermit »

Finnlaw, can you please tell us why you're leaving? It is important for read reasons.
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Aye, let old constantine spin ye a tale...

Book of Constantine (Protestant) 214: 112 - God hates you
Book of Constantine (Catholic) 214:112 - God doesn't like you
Book of Constantine (Orthodox) 214:112 - God tolerates you
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Post Post #821 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:46 am

Post by Wisdom »

Replacements are null
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Post Post #822 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:27 pm

Post by blindmewithscience »

On phone right now. Have a lot to say about what's happened so far, I'll try to post that when I get to a computer.
@Wisdom are replacements really null? Isn't it important to also important to consider who they're replacing?
Right now, the only lynches that I can see actually going through are riddleton, Constantine, and Victor (but only if he gets back). All other wagons have lost most momentum. I didn't get a good impression of Constantine, so I would be most willing to go along with that (though I'm trying to go through his posts again with an unbiased view. Would rather have bear any lynch than no lynch, though. I'm going to have to go over everything again though, and look at all the cases to see who's the best candidate. I'll try to post again within the next three hours, after rereading.
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Post Post #823 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:56 pm

Post by TellTaleHeart »

In post 739, Wisdom wrote:@TTH I think she's town, I'm satisfied with her responses and other recent posts. I also feel better about you.


You feel better about me now that I've backed off?

It seems like your read on me is dependent on my read on you. I don't care for that.
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Post Post #824 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:48 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 786, Wisdom wrote:Mathdino, acryon, thoughts?

I don't know. I appreciate the way Riddleton responded to the 'scumslip', and it's probably the towniest possible defence to something like that, but I can sorta see where you're coming from with Constantine defending. At the end of the day, considering all of SilverWolf's baggage and how close we are to deadline, I'm still confident in a Riddleton lynch.
In post 787, acryon wrote:Ehh. I mean it is certainly something to consider post-flip, but right now it's all speculation so it isn't really worth talking about IMO.

I put this on the quote list so I can agree with it, really. But that said, what Wisdom said helps decide what gives us more info...
In post 811, acryon wrote:
In post 810, Wisdom wrote:No. I'm talking about Victor wagon. The way he is tunneling on Victor does not make sense given he apparently does consider how scummy actions can have come from town.

Ok, that does make a little more sense, but I still think that Constantine is by far the better lynch given the reasons I explained in my last couple posts. The Constantine case doesn't get much if anything from a Riddleton flip. The Riddleton case would gain quite a bit from a Constantine flip. Given the thought that both could be scum, it makes more sense to go for Constantine today.

And we should note that a Riddleton flip gives us info on Newbie, Victor, wgeurts, and Wisdom.
A Constantine flip does indeed give info on Riddleton, along with wgeurts, and possibly Victor and myself.
Riddleton flip gives us more but I'm still more confident in a Constantine one. Time to start canvassing I guess. This is for everyone who's not currently voting Constantine.

TTH
townreads both Constantine and Riddleton.
Newbie, need to know ASAP which of the following you'd be willing to lynch: Constantine, Riddleton, Victor.

I don't know what the hell
Not_Mafia
's doing but considering activity levels I don't think he can help here.
Malakittens, need to know your thoughts on Constantine and Riddleton.
You don't look willing to lynch Victor.
Victor
is unknown.
Constantine
is willing to lynch Riddleton.
Riddleton
is unwilling to lynch Constantine.

So the best shot we've got for a lynch right now is Newbie and Victor joining the Constantine wagon, or proving that we all have activity levels that'd allow for a shot at Riddleton.
Please state whether you'll be capable and willing to lynch Riddleton in the next 37 hours.


I would be.

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