Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Mathdino]

What up.

considering there are no investigative roles in this game, I am utterly unmoved by naked votes at daystart, especially after a scumflip

Wisdom has been scummy all game.

How much have you read?

Neither, try again.

It's probably deff Wisdom and I'm either leaning Acryon or Newbie.

Explain these. Your read and opening vote on Wisdom did not come from meta analysis. If you used meta to dictate your vote, you'd have gone after Riddleton like I did (as Victor paired Silver up 3 times).

[Malakittens]

Lol my opening vote did come from my analysis. I hadn't said my lynchpool was that at the time.
There was things that I liked about SW's play that made me hesitant there. I like my vote on Wisdom. He really feels off, all of his posts, his pushes everything. I hated how wisdom and wges were Counterwagons. I hated how he dropped his scum read on me or at least it randomly disappeared and now that I voted him it's somehow back

[Not_Mafia]

Can we just speedlynch Wisdom, his 'case' on Mala is that she hammered a read a he wasn't confident in and drenched it in pointless spam to demoralise town and make it look he is making an effort and being productive. He's also perfectly content to pointlessly tunnel when it benefits him but this confidence dissipates as soon it might come back to him

If Mala gets lynched and flips town, who will you vote tomorrow?

I can't answer such hypotheticals. If such a thing happens, ask me then.

This post is also nonsense, if he's said something along the lines of "I'm confident enough in my reads that I need to yet" not "I can't" which is just an excuse to not get off of this tunnel

[Mathdino]

We're not speedlynching anyone, and we're certainly not lynching someone for being wrong.

FoS: this guy

Would still like Mala to at least respond to Wisdom's ABCDEFGH case.

[Wisdom]

Plus work and plus his read is bullshit and he admits that has has read me wrong in the past as town but still would likely flat out go hey hey I thought she was town after I tunneled her so I can still read her which I find highly annoying. He did incorrectly read me and read me right after I claimed, so yes hence bullshit because he can't tell town mala from scum mala

I read you wrong in Olympian Gods and I changed my read later, yes. Where other than that game have I read you wrong, Mala?

[Wisdom]

Am I lying that I've correctly caught you every time you've been scum?

[Wisdom]

...

I didn't ask you where you got your townread on me, since that seems to already be a popular opinion as someone pointed out.

I asked where you got your scumread on Wisdom, and how my posts prior to #1033 lead one to a Wisscumread.

Read my posts correctly then. I stated that I had done the same work you did in terms of finding how VDA assicaotes his scum buddies. I just didn't wall it like you did because I had no intention of doing it plus I always like to keep some meta tells hidden (not that it would have been anyways)

Hence where my lynchpool came from. Not because I was sheeping your damn analysis but because I did it myself and came to the same conclusion.

This still doesn't explain why the Victor-meta analysis led to a Wisdom scumread. Go ahead.

[Wisdom]

and now that I voted him it's somehow back

The fact you're apparently thinking I'm scum is a minor part of my case, yes, but that's not why my scumread on you is back.

[Wisdom]

Can we just speedlynch Wisdom, his 'case' on Mala is that she hammered a read a he wasn't confident in and drenched it in pointless spam to demoralise town and make it look he is making an effort and being productive. He's also perfectly content to pointlessly tunnel when it benefits him but this confidence dissipates as soon it might come back to him

Oh? Show me where "my confidence dissipates" please. Also explain how any of my posts were pointless or were meant to demoralise town.

[Wisdom]

This post is also nonsense, if he's said something along the lines of "I'm confident enough in my reads that I need to yet" not "I can't" which is just an excuse to not get off of this tunnel

Bullshit. I am not going to talk in hypotheticals. If I change my read on Mala, I'll get new reads and talk about them. If Mala flips town, the same deal.

[Riddleton]

Stop spampostkng. 30 posts in a fucking row isn't fun to read. Catchjng up....

[Mathdino]

@Wisdom: I can see how you have a propensity for tunneling.

@NM: Don't mistake playstyle as an alignment tell. Wisdom spams content. Wisdom tunnels. Mala's read is 10x more legit than yours.

Edit: Sorry.

[Mathdino]

I'm totally gonna piss off Riddleton with this, but I just realised something; I forgot the setup.

Consider: It'd be a very good move for mafia to kill based on who they think is a mason. Again, TTH's consistent townreads every time were me, acryon, wgeurts, and SilverWolf. Of these, acryon had a huge townread for TTH every time he mentioned her. The others had reasonably belligerent interactions with her (and wgeurts claimed VT).

I think scum thought TTH and acryon were masons, and shot the more unpredictable one for unknown reasons.
I think this confirms my townread on acryon.

[borkjerfkin]

If they both agree to it, I'd be up for lynching Wisdom and Mala in succession if the first lynch flips town or claims mason; their meta record of correctly reading each other is pretty undeniable. Just need Mala to convince me this isn't TvT.

Paging

blindmewithscience

,

borkjerfkin

, and

acryon

for their thoughts on this after Mala posts.

Phoneposting from kids birthday party, but:

I want to know your criteria for this definitely (or likely) being TvS for you such that you want to avoid the normal breadth first approach that normally leads to a healthier gamestate.

[Mathdino]

My criterion is literally just "Prove to me that Wisdom and Mala are so damn good at reading each other that if they scumread each other, it can't be TvT".

[wgeurts]

Wisdom, tunneling stops discussion and gains nothing. I believe you won't change your mind on mala no matter what he says, please also stop the spam posts. Care to give other reads besides mala?
I'm not agreeing with the mala case and am suprised why the heck we haven't lynched constantine yet.

[Wisdom]

My posts are not spam. I gave many reads there.

Why do you want to lynch Constantine?

[Wisdom]

Also what do you not agree on about the Mala case?

[wgeurts]

I'll make a big post covering everything tommorow, I've got no access to a pc sadly.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wisdom is 100% town. Stop.
Or try to lynch him. You'll see how much resistance you get.

[Newbie]

This is why you're reading things in a way that suits your reads. There are more ways to read this:

Victor gives a townread on Mala, stating that he'll be keeping an eye on her so that he can change that later if suspicion rises on her. The next post is consistent with his townread. Then he states some mild suspicion on her having to do with her abscence. He does that when it's safe, as Mala has little if any suspicion on her.

There is zero reason to think that those can't be scum-scum interactions.

Okay. Now consider Mala being his buddy. She posts, as Newbie pointed out, that she does not like the Victor wagon and she'd like him to speak. She does so 4 times. Then, when see sees that Victor is not doing it, she feels "fuck, he's being obvscum, like he did in that previous game" and buses him, not realizing that not everyone will think of that.

Her initial reasoning is "I thought we were at deadline", not "I am sure he is scum". She changes to this reasoning later. Yet she attacks Newbie for being sure he is scum, like she was.

Then today she completely forgets about acryon and attacks me out of nowhere, after listing me as nulltown in the end of day. None of this makes any sense. That's why I think acryon is probably the third, because this convenient forgetting about prior scumreads happens a lot for scum.

I totally agree. There's valid reasons that can be made about Malakittens and Victor being a scum team. Only a Newbie/Victor scum team is possible, though.

With that said, I don't like the way that you and acryon avoided the VD lynch, even going as far as to throw out counter lynches.

[Wisdom]

The VD lynch sucked, nobody who was voting him ever gave any good reason for voting Victor. I hated it and wanted actual scum lynched.

[Newbie]

The VD lynch sucked, nobody who was voting him ever gave any good reason for voting Victor. I hated it and wanted actual scum lynched.

You didn't find the fact that he threw out a vote for wgeurts without any reason (I think you were actually one of the first people that directly asked him why and received a fluff answer), Riddleton's case, and his apathy towards being lynched good enough?

[Wisdom]

Townies make naked votes too, it's not anything to make a big fuzz about. Riddleton's case sucked, as I explained when he made it. There were plenty of ways to interpret Victor's actions as town yet he was not considering that possibility. Apathy is not alignment indicative.

So no.

[borkjerfkin]

I totally agree. There's valid reasons that can be made about Malakittens and Victor being a scum team. Only a Newbie/Victor scum team is possible, though.

With that said, I don't like the way that you and acryon avoided the VD lynch, even going as far as to throw out counter lynches.

I cringe every time you post something like this while ostensibly supporting a mala town read. I don't get your trajectory on her or why you keep bringing this up.