Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[borkjerfkin]

newbie and wisdom had a very specific setup oriented interaction that would never be between buddies.

[acryon]

@mod sorry to do this but I have to request replacement, I recently unexpectantly moved back into work and simply cannot keep up with the pace of this game. I will help you help you find a replacememt if you would like me to

Sorry guys, this is my first replace out, but it's just not possible for me to continue. I hope you follow what I said and understand it, this is a decent enough town but peoppe aren't looking past inactivity

For what it's worth, I never thought it was scummy; I was just frustrated by the inaction, especially since I know you are capable of more. I definitely respect your replace-out in light of this.

[Wisdom]

Replace-outs are null to me. Definitely want to hear from the replacement.

[acryon]

Replace-outs are null to me. Definitely want to hear from the replacement.

For sure, although I do think N_M is probably town.

[reinoe]

At work now. I asked saulres to help with things till I get home.

[Mathdino]

newbie and wisdom had a very specific setup oriented interaction that would never be between buddies.

Was it on this page? Not gonna ask you to explain anymore than a yes/no to that.

Replace-outs and the way they're done has statistically been shown to be alignment indicative, in all fairness.

[borkjerfkin]

Yes

[saulres]

MOD STUFF

Hey look a backup friend for a backup mod.

VOTE COUNT!!!!

Wisdom- malakittens, Not_Mafia, borkjerfkin
borkjerkfin-
wgeurts-
St. Constantine The Hermit- acryon, Riddleton
Newbie-
Malakittens-
Riddleton- Mathdino, St. Constantine
Not_Mafia-Wisdom, wgeurts
Mathdino-
blindmewithscience-
acryon-

not voting- blindmewithscience, Newbie

Riddleton is V/LA until 11/5/2014
Looking for a replacement for Not_Mafia


With 11 Alive it's 6 to lynch.
(expired on 2014-11-14 21:00:00)

Hey, backup mod here, reinoe asked me to do a votecount and deal with some pms he got about -- something which I'm not sure I should discuss publicly, but if you sent them you probably know what they're about so could you forward them to me? Thanks. Meanwhile I'll post for a replacement for Not_Mafia. If there's anything else you need dealt with please let me know, I'm not following the game, I'm just around in case reinoe needs some help.

[blindmewithscience]

Ok guys, I'm phone posting now, but WTF. 150 posts in a few hours. You guys are crazy. I'll try to commebt on what all happened, but a longer post might not come until later.

[borkjerfkin]

I'll make my case against

Mala

/Wisdom/

NM

once I've finished all general reads.

Plz don't

?

You are in need of a reevaluation rather than an exercise in confirmation bias. Please do that instead.

[reinoe]

MOD STUFF

BOOO-URNS!!! YOU guys make hundreds of posts while I'm at work but when I get home it's all quiet on the western front. I bite my thumb at thee!!!

[Malakittens]

@Mod: I'll be LA starting tomorrow the 4th until the 11th of Nov. Going to Titus-meet.

I'll be posting while waiting for planes tomorrow however!

[wgeurts]

I'll make my case against

Mala

/Wisdom/

NM

once I've finished all general reads.

Plz don't

?

You are in need of a reevaluation rather than an exercise in confirmation bias. Please do that instead.

I already know what I'm going to say, it was after I reread that she became scum to me.

[wgeurts]

I believe there could be 1/2 mafia in this group:
Wisdom, Malakittens, Not_Mafia
Now I'm going to explain why.

Malakittens

She starts by just kind of saying like this, don't like that in her first few posts. She's not pushing for answers and is going along with the flow while looking generally town. She then says my flail was town flail, this at first made me think she's town as I couldn't see why you would as scum do it.
I know believe it was all for town cred. She's also still voting an RVS stage placed vote 350 posts in and little hunting for the scum is being done. However 30ish posts after me being town I suddenly become a possible scum, either me or wisdom. I'm town so if mala's scum I'd expect wisdom to possibly her partner. The scum read without push (at first) and the RVS Wisdom vote look a little like distancing.

My read once again changes a few posts later. I'd apparently be "really ballsy scum" if I was scum. It's funny how the read on me changed with the public opinion. She also doesn't have a read on VDA and is mostly ignoring him. However when questioned by wisdom later he looks scummy but she doesn't want to make a push on him yet. Lets see how this developed along with the wagon on VDA shall we?
A couple of posts later he's "flat out scummy" but she has no desire to push someone who's VLA.
She also makes it claim she'd lynch him over a no lynch. However she heavily defends against lynching him before his VLA is up literally the post before she votes him. The vote that finishes the deal. I find it horribly odd that mala has no read on VDA then goes to heavy defence against lynching him or pushing while he is VLA (She also refuse to say why she's scum reading him.) and the she lurks during the discussion on him. She hammers him with a naked vote however so I believe she saw his lynch was inevitable (while lurking of cause as she doesn't want to push a scum buddy) so she decided she may as well break any associative tells with him by hammering. It was unlikely VDA wasn't going to be lynched so this would actually make sense.

Not Mafia and wisdom are coming.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Constantine

He's not getting replaced.

[Mathdino]

Acyron isn't confirmed scum. Nothing in this game is confirmed, but I guarantee you town will win by lynching the two people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon

This is completely wrong. If I had to throw out numbers I would say when scum are on a wagon it is 25% in the beginning, 50% in the middle and 25% in the end. The absolutes you are trying to put on this game are completely wrong and are severely skewing your perspective.

And why would you tell masons to claim?? We already went over why this is terrible.

I have already made my case on several occasions on why Constantine is scum, so I'm just going to do a run-down now as an appeal to the town:

First things first, he is not a village idiot. Probably the furthest thing from it. He knows exactly what he is doing which is why he speaks and acts as if this game functions in absolutes rooted in his own flavor of the game. He claims he has played many games, so should understand the late-game implications of living masons. Despite this presumed knowledge, he on multiple occasions near-outs the masons as well as straight-up asks for a claim. Since he has, again on multiple occasions, talked about how big of newbs most of the people in this game are, there is a good chance one of the masons could have claimed in response to his request, which would be bad for town. Thankfully, he is wrong about the town, and nobody bought into it, despite his multiple attempts. He has drawn multiple conclusions, most of which are based on incompatible associative tells. See 605 for a little run-down on that. This includes a claim in 597 that Mathdino, Victor, and SilverWolf have a non-mason connection, which implies a scum-team. Then in 627 changes his story and decides only one of them is scum, even though much of his initial discussion hinged on a shared alignment. In 720, he decides to enlighten the town with what makes scum. This is not being presented by someone who doesn't appear to understand the game(although he doesn't). It is presented by one of two people: grossly misinformed/newb/misunderstanding town, or pompous scum thinking they can manipulate the town into lynching his definition of scum(which he conveniently avoids being slotted into). Today, there are the obvious issues, including his

absurd

claim that you should always lynch off the wagon the day after the lynch, which may be one of the dumbest, most misinformed things I have ever seen stated as a policy.

I don't think it's possible to accept that Constantine is someone who doesn't know what he is saying and is simply misinformed. I think his statements and actions are clearly indicative of experience. The only two options are that he is a misinformed/misunderstanding player, or he is blatant, manipulative scum, and I think it is insane that you could accept the former as the truth in this case.

My vote remains on Constantine, and nothing short of a flat-out town-confirmation is getting me off of it.

If you don't want to policy lynch, then sheep this case.

If you haven't read this case, READ IT.

Either Constantine is a troll or this is true.
We all know Constantine will never get NK'd. If you really want this guy willing to throw the game for the town if he's town in the endgame, well, again, I really don't know what to say to you.

[Wisdom]

PLs suck though :/

[Mathdino]

He

invented a new wincon

for himself.

I have literally never seen a bigger LyLo liability than him.

Again, if he's not a deliberate troll that's been screwing with us from the beginning
He.
Is.
Scum.

[Wisdom]

Or he's just a stupid troll, that doesn't equal scum

[Wisdom]

Nvm missed your "if"

[wgeurts]

He's a Troll.

[Wisdom]

However 30ish posts after me being town I suddenly become a possible scum, either me or wisdom. I'm town so if mala's scum I'd expect wisdom to possibly her partner.

I don't catch your logic here. Why doesn't you-town, me-town, Mala-scum work?

[Wisdom]

The rest of your case on Mala I agree with.

[Mathdino]

If Wisdom and Mala are partners, that was a damn good performance.

They're not gonna win though.

@borkjerfkin: Do you think that interaction that happened makes Newbie town, or d'ya think she could've faked it?

[Mathdino]

moar questions

We all agree that a Wisdom/wgeurts scumteam is incredibly unlikely. While the cases against Wisdom are legitimate, the argument against wgeurts is much stronger IMO. And so I believe that Wisdom is the townie and wgeurts is scum. With Silver somewhat defending wgeurts, I could see a scumteam with her and wgeurts (but I'm still waiting for a response to my 406, as I can also see the frustrated townie in her). I'll try to add more and expand on this later: have some tests tomorrow that I'd like to study for. Probably won't check this again for another few hours.

Yo.

BMWS

.
You said that you didn't see Wisdom-scum from my posts, as Mala indicated. At the same time, you didn't mention how your read on him has changed, if at all.
Does this conclusion still apply? Thoughts on wgeurts and Wisdom?