Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Wisdom]

Considering you were willing to lynch him to save vic? Lol

Who? Because wguerts wasn't an option at that time. I wanted to lynch Constantine/Riddle over Vic, not wguerts.

[Mathdino]

Yet you're basically unwilling to even consider the possibility that she's not town. I asked you who you'd want to lynch if Mala flips town for a reason, Wisdom (no it's not because I thought Mala was a mason, it's because this is stuff I can use later). You were unwilling to even consider that possibility. All of your D2 actions have hinged on Mala being the wagon.
She flips or confs herself town, you can easily be like "Oh, whoops, let's reconsider my 'reads' and push whatever's the easiest next lynch."

And honestly, Wisdom, the fact that she's the only one displaying that mason behaviour along with her buddy IN THIS GAME is kind of damning. The rest of us have either been attack dogs on everyone, or have explicitly or implicitly claimed VT.
You seriously seem to find her being scum faking a town-self who would fake a mason to draw the NK
is more likely than her being a mason.

Edit: Wisdom. No one else in this game has been doing that. Except Constantine actually but he's obviously not a mason.

[acryon]

Well I found it likely. I wasn't feeling good about Mala so it was time to start scrutinizing her anyway. But no, it has to be scum motivated

Again, everything is in context. When someone does something that tends to be somewhat scummy once, probably not a big deal, but when it happens multiple times is when it becomes something more.

[Mathdino]

She's hard defended her townreads, sure, but does she typically pick a townread from like page 3 and defend them for the rest of the game?
Does

anyone

?

Or is it more likely that she'd be like "Hey, so I don't like this post, although I still think he's town"?

[borkjerfkin]

Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?

Yeah that + the hard defending that mala & N_M have been doing to each other really points at this fake scenario

Just why would masons be so obvious?
Mala is not dumb nor newbie, if she's town it makes total sense for her to try and mislead scum with such a twilight comment.
People hard defending their townreads is nothing new.

Constantine

was saying I am 100% town earlier. Are we masons too?

Considering you were willing to lynch

him

to save vic? Lol

better?

[Mathdino]

When it comes to the Victor stuff, well, read this page. I find it hilarious that of the 2 people trying to stop the Victor wagon, one ran a counter case and logicked it out, while the other dismissed it through misrepping:

Translation: Victor is scum for tunneling. Your case sucks.

[Mathdino]

Please read this for more information. Victor made a baseless vote against Wgeurts, he invented new reasoning to support his fallacious claim as he goes along, as he doesn't want to believe the wagon he's trying to push is incorrect.

Translation: Victor is scum for tunneling.

Because town never tunnel, huh?

Your case sucks.

Sorry, did that off of memory, this is the correct quote.

[Wisdom]

Yet you're basically unwilling to even consider the possibility that she's not town. I asked you who you'd want to lynch if Mala flips town for a reason, Wisdom (no it's not because I thought Mala was a mason, it's because this is stuff I can use later). You were unwilling to even consider that possibility. All of your D2 actions have hinged on Mala being the wagon.

Well yeah, I was pretty sure I had caught Mala-scum and I had made a case on her, so I don't see why I should be considering that possibility at that time

[Mathdino]

This is Riddleton's original case. Wisdom chose to respond to 749, which was only on the low hanging fruit argument.
There were a multitude of other points in there. Not all of them were good, as I addressed, but Wisdom just dismisses the case entirely by boiling it down to one point.

[Wisdom]

And honestly, Wisdom, the fact that she's the only one displaying that mason behaviour along with her buddy IN THIS GAME is kind of damning. The rest of us have either been attack dogs on everyone, or have explicitly or implicitly claimed VT.

I just don't deal in absolutes. It's not "she looks like a mason" = "she is a mason" for me. Neither is it "he looks like a VT" = he is VT". People are smart and try to fool scum. Or at least should be, I'm aware not everyone is doing it.
Consider the possibility Mala has been trying to fool scum while the real masons are people you think might be scum or even VTs. You're just going for the most simple answer.

[borkjerfkin]

Consider the possibility Mala has been trying to fool scum while the real masons are people you think might be scum or even VTs. You're just going for the most

likely

answer.

fixed

[Wisdom]

Edit: Wisdom. No one else in this game has been doing that. Except Constantine actually but he's obviously not a mason.

That doesn't say anything. The point is Mala does defend who she thinks is town, and certainly doesn't do that only when she is mason. Therefore thinking that such an action definitely makes her a mason without any other possibility available is stupid.

[Wisdom]

Consider the possibility Mala has been trying to fool scum while the real masons are people you think might be scum or even VTs. You're just going for the most

likely

answer.

fixed

So you're telling me that the most likely thing is that the masons are so obvious that we have ended up talking about them inthread.
Nope, not buying it.

[borkjerfkin]

So this has been one giant exercise in moving the goalposts, as we've gone from "I never even considered they might be masons at all" to "it's not proof she's definitely a mason because X other WIFOMy things exist to invalidate its definitiveness and I'm just considering them all therefore it's ok that i'm pushing them as scum independently of each other"

[Wisdom]

Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?

Yeah that + the hard defending that mala & N_M have been doing to each other really points at this fake scenario

Just why would masons be so obvious?
Mala is not dumb nor newbie, if she's town it makes total sense for her to try and mislead scum with such a twilight comment.
People hard defending their townreads is nothing new.

Constantine

was saying I am 100% town earlier. Are we masons too?

Considering you were willing to lynch

him

to save vic? Lol

better?

My point wasn't whether we're masons.

[borkjerfkin]

My point wasn't whether we're masons.

My point was that mason relationships are bidirectional, ergo your point is crap

[Wisdom]

She's hard defended her townreads, sure, but does she typically pick a townread from like page 3 and defend them for the rest of the game?
Does

anyone

?

Or is it more likely that she'd be like "Hey, so I don't like this post, although I still think he's town"?

She actually did this, she questioned N_M's buddying on her as she called it. Check again.

[borkjerfkin]

She actually did this, she questioned N_M's buddying on her as she called it. Check again.

Obviously irrelevant considering you were willing to eliminate them as a team in 1287 because of all the cross-defending, sooooooo

[Wisdom]

When it comes to the Victor stuff, well, read this page. I find it hilarious that of the 2 people trying to stop the Victor wagon, one ran a counter case and logicked it out, while the other dismissed it through misrepping:

Translation: Victor is scum for tunneling. Your case sucks.

Not misrepping at all. Riddle's case was a bunch of confbias, something like acryon's case on me.

[Wisdom]

She actually did this, she questioned N_M's buddying on her as she called it. Check again.

Obviously irrelevant considering you were willing to eliminate them as a team in 1287 because of all the cross-defending, sooooooo

That's not the point here

[borkjerfkin]

Isn't it though? If it's pertinent to the mason discussion, why is it not pertinent to the scumbuddy discussion?

[Wisdom]

So this has been one giant exercise in moving the goalposts, as we've gone from "I never even considered they might be masons at all" to "it's not proof she's definitely a mason because X other WIFOMy things exist to invalidate its definitiveness and I'm just considering them all therefore it's ok that i'm pushing them as scum independently of each other"

Yeah, and it has moved to this because you are somehow 100% confident you have found the masons and use that as any decision making. Meanwhile, I still didn't think about such a thing at all when I made the post, and it still doesn't make sense for scum to do what I did. Which you're still failing at responding to, so

[borkjerfkin]

Don't think so. They voted me together, they defend each other.. it would be

ridiculous

if a scumteam was

so obvious

.

Let's not forget how hyperbolic you were here, after all.

[borkjerfkin]

So this has been one giant exercise in moving the goalposts, as we've gone from "I never even considered they might be masons at all" to "it's not proof she's definitely a mason because X other WIFOMy things exist to invalidate its definitiveness and I'm just considering them all therefore it's ok that i'm pushing them as scum independently of each other"

Yeah, and it has moved to this because you are somehow 100% confident you have found the masons and use that as any decision making. Meanwhile, I still didn't think about such a thing at all when I made the post, and it still doesn't make sense for scum to do what I did. Which you're still failing at responding to, so

My job ultimately is not to convince you you're scum

[borkjerfkin]

But since we've devolved to that impasse, I'm out for a bit.