Matrix6 and the Newbie Queue

BBmolla · Post Post #4 (isolation #0) » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:52 pm

In post 0, Phoenicks wrote:I support shorter deadlines and something like BBMolla's proposed 1E2: F11 without the last setup; 2 goons, 5 VTs, 2 of {VT, Doc, Cop}.

And a goon is turned into roleblocker roleblocker if Doc + Cop is generated. Important note.

BBmolla · Post Post #8 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:02 pm

In post 6, Phoenicks wrote:
In post 4, BBmolla wrote:
In post 0, Phoenicks wrote:I support shorter deadlines and something like BBMolla's proposed 1E2: F11 without the last setup; 2 goons, 5 VTs, 2 of {VT, Doc, Cop}.

And a goon is turned into roleblocker roleblocker if Doc + Cop is generated. Important note.

With that, scum always know when to fakeclaim and when not to fakeclaim. I think that would make it too scumsided.

If you're suggesting 2 goons, 5 VTs, 2 of {VT, Doc, Cop}, I think that's awful. That's just asking for accidental follow the cop.

I guess you could make it something weaker like a Mafia Watcher, but honestly I think it's fine if scum know the setup, especially when it's something as lethal as Doc/Cop.

Could make it 1-shot Roleblocker.

BBmolla · Post Post #9 (isolation #2) » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:03 pm

I don't want scum to be screwed completely screwed by the setup. Which in the current newbie setup can happen pretty easy.

BBmolla · Post Post #28 (isolation #3) » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:57 pm

In post 26, Mina wrote:
In post 24, Quilford wrote:
In post 20, Master Mew wrote:you did mix up row and column.

No, I didn't.

Which is BBmolla's?

F11 without the unbalanced all-VTs combo. (That said, scum knowing the existence of a cop and doc changes the dynamic a bit. They'll almost always know whether they can afford to fakeclaim.)

But what is wrong with that?

BBmolla · Post Post #50 (isolation #4) » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:53 pm

In post 48, chamber wrote:I suspect most players in newbie games are new to MS not to mafia.

Disagreeish.

BBmolla · Post Post #53 (isolation #5) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:04 am

In post 51, Toomai wrote:
In post 44, Mina wrote:Basically, I want to be scientific about this. Does anyone have any evidence, even
anecdotal
evidence, that people aren't grasping the set-up? Because I'm just afraid we're going to fix something that isn't broken. The only data points I have so far are positive anecdotes from newer players.
I skim every newbie game for the stats. I don't read every post, but I do feel like I get a pretty good grasp of the game.

Most games, I don't recall anyone saying they don't get the setup. Maybe a post or two near the beginning asking for clarification, which an SE or IC provides. Oftentimes, when a claim occurs, the SEs/IC spells out what it means for the setup, and everyone seems to at least get it enough to question it. There have been some blunders, but they seem few and far between (probably less than 10, and certainly less than 20, in 170+ games), and the blunderer always seems to slap their forehead afterwards.

Now I don't tend to read postgames, so I might be missing anything that goes on there, but from my perspective the setup is not an issue.

This is kind of a shallow way to look at it

I can understand the Doctor and Bulletproof as roles, but I may not understand the implication that I should probably claim Doctor at certain points

I also would have no fucking clue what to claim as new scum.

BBmolla · Post Post #55 (isolation #6) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:23 pm

That aside, I still dislike the entire Doctor/Tracker situation.

BBmolla · Post Post #76 (isolation #7) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:33 am

In post 75, Cabd wrote:3. Town Doctor, Town Tracker, 5 Vanilla Town, 2 Mafia Goons

If we do that can we change this setup to not be broken as fuck

BBmolla · Post Post #77 (isolation #8) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:10 am

Randomly one of:

Mafia Roleblocker - Town Cop - Town Doc
Mafia Roleblocker - Town Tracker - Town Jailkeeper
Mafia Rolecop - Town Doc + Town Tracker
Mafia Rolecop - Town Cop + Town Jailkeeper
Mafia Goon - Town Cop
Mafia Goon - Town Jailkeeper

?

BBmolla · Post Post #78 (isolation #9) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:14 am

Randomly one of:

Mafia Roleblocker - Town Cop + Town Doc
Mafia Rolecop - Town Cop + Town Jailkeeper
Mafia Goon - Town Cop

Option 2

BBmolla · Post Post #79 (isolation #10) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:20 am

I'm wrong about Doc + Tracker being broke, but the BP setups are all clearly bad and need to be changed.

BBmolla · Post Post #80 (isolation #11) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:25 am

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 2-shot Vigilante	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

Might be hilarious. Would implement all common roles minus SK and Godfather.

BBmolla · Post Post #81 (isolation #12) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:27 am

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	1-shot Bulletproof Serial Killer	Mafia Doctor	Town Tracker

Nvm, do this one.

BBmolla · Post Post #83 (isolation #13) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:40 am

In post 82, Shadowmod wrote:Track + vig vs. no PR mafia? Hilarious indeed!

Yeah why not?

Mafia get a free fake claim

BBmolla · Post Post #90 (isolation #14) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:48 pm

Backups aren't commonly used

Like the nice thing about 2of4 was it introduced three very common roles

If I was going to implement one, I'd still do F11 minus the no PR setup. It uses basic roles and is not complex so people can just focus on scumhunting. Could limit the roleblockers shots if that one setup is too scumsided.

I'll have to find the winrate statistics to F11.