In post 48, chamber wrote:I suspect most players in newbie games are new to MS not to mafia.
Disagreeish.
In post 48, chamber wrote:I suspect most players in newbie games are new to MS not to mafia.
I skim every newbie game for the stats. I don't read every post, but I do feel like I get a pretty good grasp of the game.In post 44, Mina wrote:Basically, I want to be scientific about this. Does anyone have any evidence, evenanecdotalevidence, that people aren't grasping the set-up? Because I'm just afraid we're going to fix something that isn't broken. The only data points I have so far are positive anecdotes from newer players.
In post 51, Toomai wrote:I skim every newbie game for the stats. I don't read every post, but I do feel like I get a pretty good grasp of the game.In post 44, Mina wrote:Basically, I want to be scientific about this. Does anyone have any evidence, evenanecdotalevidence, that people aren't grasping the set-up? Because I'm just afraid we're going to fix something that isn't broken. The only data points I have so far are positive anecdotes from newer players.
Most games, I don't recall anyone saying they don't get the setup. Maybe a post or two near the beginning asking for clarification, which an SE or IC provides. Oftentimes, when a claim occurs, the SEs/IC spells out what it means for the setup, and everyone seems to at least get it enough to question it. There have been some blunders, but they seem few and far between (probably less than 10, and certainly less than 20, in 170+ games), and the blunderer always seems to slap their forehead afterwards.
Now I don't tend to read postgames, so I might be missing anything that goes on there, but from my perspective the setup is not an issue.
In post 51, Toomai wrote:I skim every newbie game for the stats. I don't read every post, but I do feel like I get a pretty good grasp of the game.In post 44, Mina wrote:Basically, I want to be scientific about this. Does anyone have any evidence, evenanecdotalevidence, that people aren't grasping the set-up? Because I'm just afraid we're going to fix something that isn't broken. The only data points I have so far are positive anecdotes from newer players.
Most games, I don't recall anyone saying they don't get the setup. Maybe a post or two near the beginning asking for clarification, which an SE or IC provides. Oftentimes, when a claim occurs, the SEs/IC spells out what it means for the setup, and everyone seems to at least get it enough to question it. There have been some blunders, but they seem few and far between (probably less than 10, and certainly less than 20, in 170+ games), and the blunderer always seems to slap their forehead afterwards.
Now I don't tend to read postgames, so I might be missing anything that goes on there, but from my perspective the setup is not an issue.
In post 53, BBmolla wrote:I also would have no fucking clue what to claim as new scum.
In post 49, Mina wrote:Thank you so much, Mew! <3
I'm tempted to do something similar on my home site, but I suspect I'll get a resounding response of "you call THAT complicated?" Their games tend to throw newbies to the wolves much more than mafiascum does--there are no just-for-newbies games, each game has a long list of possible roles, everyone plays under alts, and you're not even ALLOWED to reveal that you're a newbie.
chamber, you're probably right that most people come to mafiascum after playing on other sites, but I feel like newbie games are there to help those who are Mafia virgins or close to it (those with significant off-site experience can always jump into another queue).
In post 46, Master Mew wrote:I showed them the wiki page for Matrix6 and asked them these questions:
1. Do you feel like you understand this setup well?
2. As your first game on Mafia Scum, would you feel comfortable playing this setup?
3. Do you feel like this setup is well-suited for new players?
In post 49, Mina wrote:Thank you so much, Mew! <3
In post 58, Master Mew wrote:After further dicussion it also became clear that, even though they'd all read the wiki page, nobody really got the Roleblocker vs Jailkeeper resolution (which suggests it may be unintuitive) and the Bulletproof claiming as Doctor scenario was bewildering.
Town Cop | Mafia Anti-Cop role | Town PR |
Mafia Anti-Jailkeeper role | Town Jailkeeper | Town PR |
In post 66, Bicephalous Bob wrote:I really think it's a good idea to make the IC confirmed town with the chance of having a protective role. I don't see how you can teach newbies what you think is scummy if you have to push town at the same time, unless you're a shitty scumhunter, in which case you shouldn't be teaching newbies anyway.
In post 62, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:In post 58, Master Mew wrote:After further dicussion it also became clear that, even though they'd all read the wiki page, nobody really got the Roleblocker vs Jailkeeper resolution (which suggests it may be unintuitive) and the Bulletproof claiming as Doctor scenario was bewildering.
I don't think Newbies need to know those things anyway. They're edge cases.
When you say 2x3, Mina, do you mean a set-up where you pick one of two rows or one of three columns? I don't see how you can make that work without giving the rows inherently more town power.
In post 66, Bicephalous Bob wrote:I really think it's a good idea to make the IC confirmed town with the chance of having a protective role. I don't see how you can teach newbies what you think is scummy if you have to push town at the same time, unless you're a shitty scumhunter, in which case you shouldn't be teaching newbies anyway.
I already said this in the let's-revolutionize-mafiascum thread, but adding direct links to the signup threads in the corresponding forum descriptions would help a great deal. Also, the guide to signing up on the main page can be replaced with a link to the sign-up thread saying "respond with '/in' to this thread to sign up for your first game".
In post 62, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
When you say 2x3, Mina, do you mean a set-up where you pick one of two rows or one of three columns? I don't see how you can make that work without giving the rows inherently more town power.
In post 70, Shadowmod wrote:In post 66, Bicephalous Bob wrote:I really think it's a good idea to make the IC confirmed town with the chance of having a protective role. I don't see how you can teach newbies what you think is scummy if you have to push town at the same time, unless you're a shitty scumhunter, in which case you shouldn't be teaching newbies anyway.
I already said this in the let's-revolutionize-mafiascum thread, but adding direct links to the signup threads in the corresponding forum descriptions would help a great deal. Also, the guide to signing up on the main page can be replaced with a link to the sign-up thread saying "respond with '/in' to this thread to sign up for your first game".
You'd also need a high chance of the IC to be BP or having a doc/jk in the setup, or mafia will just do what they like to do anyway: Snipe the IC in N1.
And even then, you basically turn the game into a follow the IC, which is boring, and not how mafia should be played. And innocent child is a pretty dulll role in general, for all the same reasons...