Mini #1647: Eine Kleine Nacht-Mord, Game Over

[prawneater]

VOTE: Equinox

He killed Cogito Ergo Sum because he wanted to have the smartest username in the game.

[prawneater]

I played with CES before?

I played with CES before?

Apparently.

O snap.

[prawneater]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LlamaFluff

[prawneater]

Because L-3 is pretty far away from lynch. L-2 is much better.

[prawneater]

Because L-3 is pretty far away from lynch. L-2 is much better.

Would you also have voted if he'd been at L-2, before your post?

Maybe.

It's still three votes prawneater. Plus, even if I'm not entirely on board with Equinox's hypothesis, it's still a serious attempt at making a case against someone. I don't believe LlamaFluff would be chillin' like chill in those circumstances but then suddenly feel the pressure to do something when a fourth vote gets put on him.

Then again, so far I've only played in games where three votes = L-2, so maybe there's something you know that I don't.

We want pressure on LlamaFluff. Do you disagree?

[prawneater]

unvote

also I like llama's reaction

I wasn't crazy about it. What exactly did you like?

[prawneater]

Vote GIF

His response to Equinox putting him in the group that has played with CES and calling him scum was to question him being in there. Not trying to actually question the validity of it but concerned with being a part of it.

Would also vote UT

This attack on GIF feels like a reach. GIF's response to Equinox was a genuine "I forgot". Reading anything else here and voting on it is bad.

[prawneater]

I like TTH's post 71

I like many of Equinox's posts.

I like UT giving Derangement towncred (I agree that Derangement looks town)

I think GIF is more town than not. I don't know GIF, but I think if I were scum in that spot, I'd look up my games rather than ask if I was in that game. If I was town in that spot I think I'd just ask and not bother looking it up.

I don't like LF's attack on GIF. I read it as scum under pressure trying to contrive a scummy angle on someone else.

I don't have strong feelings on the others yet.

[prawneater]

I think GIF is more town than not. I don't know GIF, but I think if I were scum in that spot, I'd look up my games rather than ask if I was in that game. If I was town in that spot I think I'd just ask and not bother looking it up.

[...]

I don't like LF's attack on GIF. I read it as scum under pressure trying to contrive a scummy angle on someone else.

Interesting. Why would you-scum have looked it up rather than asked about it?

Scum-me would be freaked out that I was on a suspect list and I'd want to see what my dynamic was with CES. Town-me wouldn't care as much.

How do you feel about LlamaFluff's attack on Untrod Tripod?

It's better than his attack on GIF. I think UT's play was fine, but I can see someone not liking it.

What I don't like about LF's play is he seems more concerned with saving his skin and making a counter-wagon than figuring out the game. He responds to attacks but he doesn't ask many questions or comment on any other happenings.

@LlamaFluff

Do you have any reads other than UT or GIF?

[prawneater]

Prodge

[prawneater]

Scum-me would be freaked out that I was on a suspect list and I'd want to see what my dynamic was with CES. Town-me wouldn't care as much.

Re: your hypothesized reaction to the list of suspects, that's an interesting way to go about it, but I'm having a little trouble following. When you say that you would want to see the nature of your dynamic with Cogito Ergo Sum, what do you mean?

Now that I think about it, it doesn't matter how I interacted with CES. I would just want to do a quick re-read of the game because other people are probably reading it for meta.

In other news: I'm fine with killing one of the onions for sanity's sake.

We should just have a poll on which onion we think is scummier and lynch that one.

Onion Bubs is the scummier of the two imo.

[prawneater]

That's not a good reason to lynch someone. Why Onion Bubs?

Cuz Onion is prob town.

I don't have strong scumreads other than LF. Most folk are townreads so I'm willing to POE lynch Onion Bubs or Marquis.

[prawneater]

I've played with Marquis recently.

His lack of play is not alignment indicative, but if he doesn't improve or replace out, he's a fine lynch.

[prawneater]

You basically made statements that no matter who I was voting I was scum because it would be a "preservation vote" unless I was voting a player with no votes. The reaction of actually being concerned about how you are being read meta wise concerns me as if you are town, there would really be no concern about what you are doing.

This is a strawman. I said that I don't like how you're playing - that you're not trying to figure out the game.

As for your second point, we're talking about a hypothetical "what if I was GIF in his spot as scum/town". I don't see how you can infer scumminess from that, and if this is the basis for your vote, it's a bad vote.

If you want to vote me because I'm not posting enough, you can say that. But then I ask, do you actually have scumreads, or are you just OMGUS/voting low-hanging fruit?

Cuz Onion is prob town.

I don't have strong scumreads other than LF. Most folk are townreads so I'm willing to POE lynch Onion Bubs or Marquis.

Okay. If you've already eliminated down to LlamaFluff, Marquis, and Onion Bubs, why did you talk about lynching one of onion or Onion Bubs?

Asking for opinions/bad reaction testing.

[prawneater]

@LlamaFluff

Your case on me is bad. Your case on GIF was bad. Your case on UT was bad. You are struggling to make up cases.

Re: Marquis

- His early non-posts do not say anything of his alignment, but it's fine to lynch him as he is an anti-town player.

His recent buddying of me seems town though. I think I'm pretty unpopular at the moment and him putting his neck out supporting me doesn't seem to serve hypothetical scum-Marquis.

[prawneater]

@LF

Your tunnel on me feels forced.

When did you call me out on bad logic? In post 303? I responded to that in 340. Is that the first backpedal?

As for the 2nd backpedal, I'm not allowed to change my read from null to town for Marquis? He made a post of substance, he's talking about the game. Do scum regularly buddy with unpopular posters?

I have a lot of problems understanding your logic which may be why I think you're scummy. Everything you write reads like an unintelligible stream of consciousness. You don't quote any posts, so everything you say looks like a strawman to me.

[prawneater]

Where you said that we should lynch one of the onion players (then called it a reaction test immediately after people called you scum for it) and then saying Marquis is null but a good lynch that leads to...

This is a misrepresentation. "People called you scum for it" Who are these people? No one except you called me scummy after my onion question. I didn't push it further because no one cared.

I still don't see you pointing out any bad logic from me. You can lynch a nullread player on the basis that their actions are anti-town. Do you disagree?

Apparently him catching up through page three (of almost a 20 page game) and calling you null-town and then not posting anything else really for 48 hours is big town tell to you?

So yes. Two things you did that were scummy, each time you immediately back off on it when called. Onion thing turns into a "reaction test" and Marquis apparently voting almost the minimum amount of content possible is enough to move him from a "good lynch" to "town" which coincidently coincides with people saying that was a very scummy stance.

"people saying that was a very scummy stance"

Again, who are these people? Just you? This is another misrepresentation.

Yes, I find town tells in single posts. Don't you?

Sorry, but are you ESL? Your posts are very difficult for me to read and you use plural nouns in places you shouldn't.

[prawneater]

@onion I kinda just wanted to tell you to iso me, but I do have a couple of new points:

OLD STUFF

I like TTH's post 71

I like many of Equinox's posts.

I like UT giving Derangement towncred (I agree that Derangement looks town)

I think GIF is more town than not. I don't know GIF, but I think if I were scum in that spot, I'd look up my games rather than ask if I was in that game. If I was town in that spot I think I'd just ask and not bother looking it up.

I don't like LF's attack on GIF. I read it as scum under pressure trying to contrive a scummy angle on someone else.

NEW STUFF

I am friends with Marquis.

I like CDB for his attack on TTH.

I like Onion's posts 175, 181, 408

Llamafluff is scum TL;DR: he's not trying to figure out the game, he's just trying to push wagons with whatever bad logic he can muster.

I'm OK with lynching onion bubs, but that's more POE than me thinking he's scummy.

Let's kill LF guys.

[prawneater]

@Marquis Why are you voting me?

[prawneater]

@Llamafluff

There is no contradiction. I am pointing out that your "logic" and opinions are your own, but you present them as "town's opinions".

I am unpopular because of the votes on me. But just because people are voting me doesn't mean they share or understand your crazy views. They have their own reasons which will come to light soon enough.

@onion

I played with CES before?

Vote GIF

His response to Equinox putting him in the group that has played with CES and calling him scum was to question him being in there. Not trying to actually question the validity of it but concerned with being a part of it.

Would also vote UT

Question validity... of what?

It seems odd to me that you acknowledge the existence of a list of players Equinox listed as having played with CES before by acting surprised that you were a part of it, and then ignored any merits or lack thereof. I could understand just ignoring it, but you indirectly mention it.

Do you think a townie came to the conclusion LF did? I don't. I think this is made up.

@Derangement

I probably would not put someone at L-1 so early in the day. I said "maybe" because I still wanted the threat of a lynch there so we could have some nice juicy reactions. The whole "let's put one or two votes on everyone in RVS" is a waste of time.

[prawneater]

Do you think a townie came to the conclusion LF did?

You are using the exact same reason to call me scum that I used to call GIF scum. So either you are scum for saying "I don't see town doing this" or your tell works, which simultaneously invalidates your tell on me since its what you are calling me scum for.

What is this "exact same reason"? What tell am I using?

[prawneater]

@Marquis Why are you voting me?

EBWOP

Sorry, wrong player.

*@Equinox Why are you voting me?

[prawneater]

We're not using the same scum-tell or reasoning.

We might be asking the same question, "does scum/town do this?", but everybody asks this question. You haven't caught me being a liar or a hypocrite, you're just making more trumped-up accusations.

Llamafluff, what reads do you have on this game besides the ones on me?

[prawneater]

What don't you like about the way I'm arguing with Llama?

[prawneater]

@onion & other Marquis haters:

Read this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6518847

He was town that game.

The slot is not scummy, give NJAC a chance to post.

[prawneater]

EBWOP: Just click on the game and Iso Marquis.

Re: Onion asking for claim

I still think he's town, he just made a bad post. Like my onion lynch poll.

[prawneater]

prawn

bus your buddy

I'm bussing LF. I'm pocketing and keeping Marquis alive til endgame.

[prawneater]

Thank god people are finally reading LF's posts.

If you haven't already, ISO LF. Tell me you can make sense of what he's saying. Tell me he isn't full of hot air.

[prawneater]

I don't think you remember the context of 296. I was saying if I was scum in GIF's spot there, I'd be concerned with meta. Apparently you agree. Was that another bad attempt at trying to make me look scummy?

LF would you mind replying to CDB's 458 and TTH's 462?

[prawneater]

@onion

Did you read the link I posted to Marquis' last game? He literally made the exact same promise posts, never delivered, and then replaced out. He was town that game.

[prawneater]

@snscompt1

I think your list is fake.

I call B.S. on you reading Llama as town. Which Llama posts do you like? Do you like any of his cases?

Need to reread and ISO
CD
Prawn

This feels like a convenient way of keeping your lynch options open. You'd think someone making a readslist would have fully read the game.

Scum:
NJAC(because of Marquis. Meta. Reasons)
Onion-My evil twin. As scum I typically try to write out all of the facts to help keep my story straight and prove to others how "we" can win by logic. I barely read half his posts though. I couldn't handle it

This is way too bandwagony. You're going to have to elaborate on your Marquis read. I don't know if I like your onion reasoning much either. Do you have an example of you playing like onion as scum?

[prawneater]

lurking and lying aren't town-tells. it might prove he's a bad player, and i believe it. i'm willing to give him null-tell for being reliably bad, but that still results in a player we know nothing about because he's never posted, which is what the policy lynch is about.

OK we agree: the slot is null.

Now how bout you push some scumreads?

[prawneater]

VOTE: snscompt1

Answer my questions.

[prawneater]

lol

Hey everyone! I found a scum!

[prawneater]

@snscompt1

I apologize. My earlier post was abrasive. Let's start over.

Which Llama posts do you like? Do you like any of his cases?

I can go back and quote if needed, but that's not why I read llama town. It's the whole. I like most of his posts. I don't agree with them, but I do like them.
I don't like his cases, but I like way he approaches them. I don't understand the whole CES arguments on anyone.

I would like a few quotes if you don't mind. Which posts do you like? What do you like about how LF approaches his cases?

This feels like a convenient way of keeping your lynch options open. You'd think someone making a readslist would have fully read the game.

If you do that then great. Otherwise, here's my foot.
I did reread the game. I skimmed the walls, not skipped.
You and CD had a few posts scattered. You two werent' constantly engaging in discussion. However, you both weren't what I consider to be lurking. You both were on the edge.
So basically, I would see a post from you or CD and then 50 posts later after an engaging discussion you post again. So by the end of reading, I have no idea where I stand on you two. So, I said I will review and ISO you two

I still have problems believing this. CDB doesn't have very many posts at all. I have slightly more, but none of them are particularly long. I think you could have ISO'd both of us before making your readlist. Why were you in a rush to make the readlist if it wasn't complete?

This is way too bandwagony. You're going to have to elaborate on your Marquis read. I don't know if I like your onion reasoning much either. Do you have an example of you playing like onion as scum?

Oh. Excuse me. I don't like Onion. So I shouldn't vote Onion because others are already voting him.
If you're too fucking blind to see it, I'm a replacement. My views are my views after reading the entire thread. Not as things progress. Would you be saying I was bandwagon if Bubs had been replaced 10 pages ago? No.
Why you ask? Because then it would seem normal. I'm a replacement, so all my thoughts are output when I get replaced in and catch up. I can't change the timing of that. Don't be dense.

You say you've read the entire thread, but you're missing reads, and the reads you do have seem very cursory. I say your reads are bandwagony because they happen to be on the two largest current wagons, and I question if your scumreads are in earnest.

My Marquis read? I've played with them many times and we always clash. This lurking is not alignment indicative in itself, but that was excessive even for Marquis and it is being seen not just through them but the slot. That shouldve been lynched a long time ago.

So you're saying the lurking is not alignment indicative, but he's lurking excessively, so he is scum?

You don't like my onion reasoning? What's new. You're just full of insults aren't you? Well you aren't me. I see Onion as scum because of how I play. Don't like it? Too bad, I wasn't trying to convince you.
Would you rather I simply restate what others have already said about Onion? Would that have been better? Oh wait, that'd be bandwagony. Oh, so I if I want to vote him, I have to come up with brand new reasons? Oh wait, I related a personal experience and that was shut down too.
So the answer is to simply not vote Onion? If Onion flips scum, you're next.

Do I have an example? Probably. I haven't played on this site for 6 months. Go meta me and tell me what you find. I'm not doing you're work for you. I already know I'm town.

Even if you've been gone for 6 months, you should be able to remember what games you were scum in. I would like to read a game where you're scum and acting like onion. Also, can you quote us some of onion's scummy posts?

[prawneater]

From what you've told us about your experiences with Marquis, shouldn't your activity-based reads on him be null? Do you have any other scum-Marquis reads?

Will you make your next post before the lynch deadline? Don't Marquis on us now.

[prawneater]

I think Prawn likes GIF due to his reaction WAYYYY back about the Cogito List 018. do you like GIF for any other reason?

Nope. He's a slight townread.

I think Prawn wanted to lynch Bubs, recommending it in 296, 314, then backs off in 340, then is back on 417, then back off again 454. Now he voted for Bub's replacement sns in 479. For not actually having a case on Bubs, or any evidence that he's scummy, Prawn's been on this for quite a while. its suspicious.

There are many people I don't want to lynch today. Bubs' lynch is POE. Also, his gifs kinda annoyed me. That said, I never found bubs particularly scummy, which is why there's no case. sns on the other hand...

In 407, Prawn calls misrepresentation on Llama, but he's wrong. Prawn was denying that people found his things scummy as Llama stated. I've already responded to this in 408. It feels like Prawn was trying to alienate Llama rather than hold to a logical, evidence based case against him. its suspicious.

I'm not wrong. Equinox and CDB have both distanced themselves from LF's case. TTH doesn't get LF either. I don't think anyone has sheeped LF. Also, my attacking LF here is part of a larger point. The point being that LF makes trumped up cases.

[prawneater]

I'm pretty much thinking it's gonna be a llama lynch because that's what we'll actually have the votes for

and I'm fairly okay with that

What do you think of an sns lynch?

[prawneater]

Seriously we need to just lynch Prawn.

We are not lynching me for the same reason we are keeping NJAC alive

??? Why are we not lynching you for the same reason we are keeping NJAC alive????

Its going to be a prawn lynch or no lynch here, basically guaranteed.

False dilemma. The fact that you can't be bothered to think of another lynch speaks to your lack of town-involvement and actual scumreads.

Then he basically just tacks on "OMGUS on sns". I seriously think every scum read of his is someone who called him scum first or was lurking (Marquis).

Literally the entire case on sns from Prawn is "I don't like his read and he called me scum and I don't agree with that"

My vote on sns is not an OMGUS. His opening post never called me scum. His vote on ME is an OMGUS, so you can vote that if you want.

I never scumread Marquis.

I voted you before you voted me

Are you even reading this game anymore? It feels like you just check in to iso me and make a bad attack.

There are many questions directed at you that you still have not answered.

[prawneater]

@Prawn - You literally voted sns because he made a list you didn't like. He makes a list, you complain about it and vote him. Every single player who doesn't have the reads you do end up getting a "they make no sense and are scum" read.

OK, so you dropped the OMGUS accusation because it just wasn't true. That's a good start.

You're right, I did not like sns' list and I voted him because of it. Excellent observation.

A lot of players do not have the reads I do. But I'm not voting them. I only think you and sns are scum.

I can basically guarantee that Prawn is going to be lynched today its just a matter of if anything else is going to also happen.

Is this some form of hypnotism you're using? Like if you keep repeating it, we'll all start taking it as an absolute truth?

I'll add these questions to your to-do pile. Take your time, but it's getting kinda big.

Do you like sns' list?
What do you think of sns?

[prawneater]

@LF do you have more reads you can share with us?

Would you mind replying to CDB's 458 and TTH's 462?

Also, are you softclaiming executioner?

If so, can you just let town make consensus votes and not let your horrible tunnel get the better of you?

@sns if you're not reading me as scum, can you remove your vote please?

[prawneater]

@LF do you have more reads you can share with us?

What more do you want than you are scum and NJAC and onion are town? Those are my three strongest reads right now, trying to do anything else is just going to be a distraction this close to deadline.

This is really all you have?

Would you mind replying to CDB's 458 and TTH's 462?

Its not like these are complicated questions that the answer isn't in either my iso or their iso...

CDB expressed interest in you and Marquis in 343

Im not answering 462 because apparently TTH is the only one who doesn't get that post, you even responded to that post. If everyone else appears to get it and I have explained it multiple times its either a tell that TTH actually is unable to comprehend or something along those lines

I'm going to hazard a guess and say this is not very helpful for CDB or TTH.

Also, are you softclaiming executioner?

That's not a normal role. If I do have any power along those lines though you are absolutely dying, don't think anything could change that because even if you are town, its not like it will be a big loss.

Vengeful townie? If so, I think you should leave the kills to town. I have a feeling you're not a very good shot.

Also, if you are town, I think I've played a better town game than you.

[prawneater]

The majority of your game is tunneling and making bad cases. I think calling you out is time well spent.

Do you realize that I said Marquis is a good lynch IF he doesn't improve or he replaces out? I got him to replace out. Now I don't want to lynch him. What is hard to understand about that?

If you're dayvig or whatever let me post some helpful tips from the wiki:

"Vigilante kills take away majority-rules lynches from the Town, placing too much power in one player's fallible hands."

[prawneater]

Its some more unusual theory but it works, basically I want him alive tonight because of something else that I don't want to alert scum to if they didn't see it. I haven't claimed yet. No reason to.

If Marquis breadcrumbed or softclaimed or something, aren't you alerting scum to that? Why would you do that unless you're signalling your scumpartner?

In case you're not following the votecount (as that would require reading a post in this thread that doesn't belong to me), you're about to die. If you are a town PR, you should claim now and give town some time to mull over your claim rather than do it last minute.

[prawneater]

Do you realize that I said Marquis is a good lynch IF he doesn't improve or he replaces out? I got him to replace out. Now I don't want to lynch him. What is hard to understand about that?

Revisionist history again?

You called him town in 384, because he called you town. He didn't replace until a few pages later. Changing the reason for your actions when I call them odd again? Because it sure wasn't changed because he replaced out, you wouldn't have been calling him town that early if that was your reason.

There's nothing revisionist here. Let's include me reading him town in the timeline of events.

"Do you realize that I said Marquis is a good lynch IF he doesn't improve or he replaces out? (

I read Marquis as town for townreading me

) I got him to replace out. Now I don't want to lynch him. What is hard to understand about that?"

The bold statement fits in fine and doesn't contradict anything.

[prawneater]

I can basically guarantee that Prawn is going to be lynched today

saying things like this make me want to lynch the person who said it

Its true though. Im betting you are pretty sure of the reason im saying it too.

Also PJ using a SK? Im pretty sure I remember him not liking third party roles. Nah this is all weak PRs and probably two scum. Im almost surprised town has as much as we do.

This post came out of nowhere and didn't make sense at the time, but now we can see it's a setup for the roleclaim. Scummy premeditation imo.

[prawneater]

Gunsmith and tracker seems redundant.

I didn't like LF before the claim, and I still don't like him post-claim.

VOTE: Llamafluff

I don't get the NJAC votes. snscompt1 should be the alt-lynch. He's active on other parts of the site. Makes me think he's purposefully avoiding posting here.

[prawneater]

VOTE: snscompt1

Why are you scumreading me? Are you still scumreading onion?

Why are all your posts devoid of scumhunting?

[prawneater]

VOTE: snscompt1

Why are you scumreading me? Are you still scumreading onion?

Why are all your posts devoid of scumhunting?

VOTE: snscompt1

Why are you scumreading me? Are you still scumreading onion?

Why are all your posts devoid of scumhunting?

Please tell me you're not serious.
You can't be this daft.

Post 670 12:20
Post 671 12:33

Look at the timestamps guys. This dude is active lurking. He'll respond to accusations quick enough, but he won't comment on recent happenings or think about the game in any meaningful way. Put your votes on him.

[prawneater]

Spoiler: Why Prawn is Scum
7 Starts off RVS on Equinox

Stopped reading there.

@sns I don't need to make a wall of your posts and try to ascribe scumminess to them. I can just ask people to ISO you. The first thing they'll think is, "wow these posts are really bad" and my job is already done.

You admit that your first vote on me had nothing to do with scumminess, you were just upset. Instead of voting your "scumread", pressuring them, and asking them questions, you make the most pointless vote in the world when we were closing in on deadline. You are at best, a terrible town player.

[prawneater]

More like

Lynch all liars.

[prawneater]

Also we have no reason to lynch claimed 1S tracker today.
By keeping him alive, if hes town he'll either get nightkilled or scum waste a valuable night action try to frame the one of the weakest investigative role. If hes scum he still wont be able to lie about it (attempting to refute this ill consider as a scumclaim. I have stuff in mind that I dont want to reveal until tomorrow and id rather not be poked and prodded about this until tomorrow.)

GIF probly got killed because this post kinda looks like a PR claim.

[prawneater]

^ bad post

[prawneater]

sns is prod-dodging scum. He isn't reading or thinking about the game, but he's checking the thread regularly. He wants to post as little as possible until someone else catches the heat. You should vote and pressure him.

Part of me thinks LF may be town because I don't think scum would come up with such a convoluted claim.

I'm guessing most of you believe or are uncertain about LF's claim as you haven't piled votes on him. If everyone could TL;DR their feelings about LF and his claim, I think that'd help a lot.

[prawneater]

Side note on sns: Why do you think that scum votes NJAC there when NJAC not only had already enough votes for a mislynch (meaning he could easily avoid being on a mislynch be stalling) but also would put me as a PR closer to a lynch. It seems like a vote geared at keeping me alive, which is something that I don't really see scum trying to do in that situation when you could just stall and see what happens.

Its a big reason I like one of TTH/Derange as scum. I don't see that wagon as pure town, GIF flipped town, UT and onion are going to be town as well. As I keep going back on it I like sns a bit for town just because of the timing of the vote. All he has to do as scum there is nothing and chances of lynching a PR increases.

You and sns could be a scumpair and it all makes sense.

sns was forced to make that vote. He was locked in because of his readlist and also because he was approaching his prod. sns is very conscious of avoiding prods. He can't simply make a prodge in that situation and not vote.

[prawneater]

Still need to full reread. Still sitting on UT and onion are town, CDB mild town. Rest are null at best.

Didn't you say sns is town?

And yes, I think there are only 2 scum. 3 scum in a 12 man is uncommon AFAIK.

@ChannelDelibird, Equinox, snscompt1, Untrod Tripod

I'd really like to know your thoughts on LF's claim.

[prawneater]

@LF What are your feelings on sns?

[prawneater]

Prod acknowledged. Will post tonight. I will replace out if I can't keep up with this game. Sorry.

[prawneater]

sns was an active lurker. Look at his timestamps and tell me they weren't direct replies to my posts.

VOTE: sns's replacement

@LF What are your feelings on sns?

@Llamafluff, I'd like an answer please.

[prawneater]

I'm game to lynch onion, to be perfectly honest

if only so I no longer have to read his posts

Weren't you townreading Onion? This is a terrible reason to lynch him.

I don't like your flippant attitude this game. You're willing to throw a vote on anyone. Do you have any reads? Do you have a case to push?

[prawneater]

GC

we are never on the same page

why are we on the same page this game

it's really weirding me out that you're arriving at exactly my reads

I think it's more you're arriving at GC's reads.

[prawneater]

Some thoughts.

I'm townreading Onion and Derangement.

I think I liked CDB yesterday but he's gone

I don't particularly like TTH's D2 play.

I don't like Equinox's late D1 or D2 play.

GC is definitely a better player than his predecessors, but I still hate sns's slot.

Are people townreading UT? Why? I wouldn't mind him being lynched.

I think I'd rather LF die than TTH or Onion.

VOTE: LlamaFluff

[prawneater]

LF's flip semi-confirms UT I guess.

I think there's one scum between GC and TTH.

Remaining scum is CDB maybe.

[prawneater]

Ya I agree, the Equinox NK is strange. He was on the LF wagon and he wasn't a particularly helpful townie End of D1 and all of D2. I think a scum-case could have been made on him.

Was someone freaked out that Equinox would suddenly start posting and figure out the game? Who has history with Equinox? Who is most scared of him?

[prawneater]

so, Tripod and Llama had bouts early on, but that's because tripod is tripod, thus null. Llama's track was accurate, and Tripod really didn't go anywhere N1. that's townish.

Llama and Prawn had bouts, and Prawn isn't Tripod, so this is scumish.

we still have a not both Prawn and sns.

Llama suspected TTH+Prawn, and we should at least have a passing interest in his suspicious, being confirmed town and all.

GIF also voted for TTH. we have enough confirmed townies for vote analysis to maybe be useful. i'll do that.

This isn't good logic. Town fight amongst each other all the time.

The reason Tripod is prob town is the tracking, not his interactions with Llama.

I don't know if GIF was even reading the game. That said, I could sheep his ghost vote on TTH.

[prawneater]

Onion Case

1. Over-Posting.

By posting way too many (convoluted, repetitive) words, onion has become invisible to half+ of the thread.

Why it's alignment indicative:

He's getting a free pass by having folks glaze over his posts, and therefore his suspicious play isn't getting scrutiny. I think it traces back to Post 131, which, as others noted at the time, is basically THINGS HAPPENED. After getting criticized on failing to put out too little substantive input, onion now churns out geyers of words about his thoughts and feelings about the game. Moreover, those thoughts are convoluted, abstract, or logic-symbol based. It's an informational overload that most people aren't reading

because it actively turns people away

. It's also not really useful, it's mostly just THOUGHTS ABOUT THINGS.

Examples:

Post 175, Post 188, Post 217, Post 275, Post 302, Post 310, Post 326, Post 372, Post 456, Post 536, Post 720.

2. Using "post-flip associative tells" to justify votes.

onion continually puts forth a "if we lynch X, we'll get info about Y regardless of X's alignment!" justification behind his votes.

Why it's alignment indicative:

For basically every player, their post-flip reveal will help deduce associative tells for other players with varying degrees of probative value. And this reason is, in and of itself, not based on the lynchee's alignment. Thus, this is an unobtrusive/universal filler excuse to lynch someone, and onion uses it excessively. Emphasizing such a basis to push a vote is what scum would do, because it's easy.

Examples:

Post 156, Post 275, Post 295, Post 302, Post 372, Post 383, Post 396, Post 549, Post 600, Post 711.

3. Baiting UT.

onion continually baits UT with snide remarks about UT's (in)ability to competently play.

Why it's alignment indicative:

It makes another player go apeshit, which draws negative attention to that other player. There's a difference between finding another player's play/style anti-town or whatever, but onion's digs really look like he's actively trying to get UT to have a meltdown.

Examples:

Post 152, Post 156, Post 175, Post 217, Post 275, Post 383, Post 396, Post 482, Post 744.

4. Appears to have knowledge about Llama's alignment.

Post 183 caught my eye during my read through, because I thought onion was saying that CDB being on Llama's wagon, pre-Llama flip, was suspicious. This looked like onion had tipped his hand about knowing Llama's (town) alignment. Rereading, though, I see that in Post 180, onion is saying that all slots on any bandwagon (except first and hammer) are suspicious.

Why it's alignment indicative:

I still think this points to a scum perspective, and knowledge about Llama's alignment. I'm not convinced this universal aspect of the theory in Post 180 really allays my suspicions about onion preemptively suspecting the folks on Llama's bandwagon. Assuming for the sake of argument that all slots on a town bandwagon are scummy, per onion's theory, that wouldn't hold true for slots on a scum bandwagon. That is, onion has taken a questionable principle that applies to reviewing

town bandwagons

, and has preemptively applied it to Llama's bandwagon while also still suspecting Llama.

5. Rolefishing.

I agree with UT. Post 430 looks like rolefishing, not some failed attempt at a reaction test like TTH theorizes. Post 445 and Post 450 confirm this suspicion.

Why it's alignment indicative:

role. fishing.

Do you guys like GC's case on Onion? I find that I don't agree with many of the points. Last game I played with GC, he was scum and had to make cases out of necessity. And at least one of them was really contrived. I might have that same feeling again with the Onion case.

I don't think points 1 and 3 are scum-indicative.
2 is a maybe for me. The posts GC linked are some of Onion's classic logic walls, but I get town vibes when I read those.
4 might be a forced point on GC's part. I think I follow (but don't agree with) Onion's logic that any D1 wagon that forms quickly has scum on it and there are certain slots that are scummier than others. To call it a scum-slip is reaching maybe?
5 I don't like Onion's play either, but I wouldn't paint it as scum trying to role-fish. I think it's simply too dumb of a play for scum and I can picture town-Onion thinking "oh this play is clever and will help town".

[prawneater]

VOTE: Green Crayons

[prawneater]

I think my reasons for voting GC should be clear.

@TTH Please help town out with some great D3 play and maybe not prodge so much?

[prawneater]

Bussing

I don't bus.

Have you literally never bussed?

[prawneater]

3 mafia isn't likely, but it doesn't really change anything or merit much conversation. We gotta lynch scum!

[prawneater]

Deadline is in one day lol

VOTE: TTH

[prawneater]

Prodge. Will get back to this.

[prawneater]

Sorry, I'm done being busy tonight.

[prawneater]

Who should I vote for guys?