Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[Riabi]

Ok, just in case winter storm Neptune (what a dumb name for a storm) is as bad as folks say it might be, I'll go L/VA for a couple days.

[Riabi]

V/LA I mean.

[NJAC]

I like acryon for town.

Can you elaborate?

Oh well, I think he is town, he's been active enough, asking questions, interacting, you know? that kind of things. I also share with him some of his POV. I even liked the way he inquired Dooku with all the Rach thing.

If you want me to answer to something specific please let me know.

Also, do you think acryon is town or scum, and why?

And one more question: why aren't you voting scumHana/scumfisaro?

[NJAC]

Dooku/Remin's wagon is the wrong wagon. If I have to pick some scummy names from that wagon I'd say Victor, Metal and maybe Riabi.

Anyway Hana/fisaro is scum for sure.

@pisskop: stop playing silly and get your vote back to Hana.

Drezi, acryon and House are town. Lalendra is also town.

[NJAC]

Also: I don't like House's case on pisskop. In fact pisskop is also leaning town for me. House vs pisskop is just town vs town.

[Sakura Hana]

I even liked the way he inquired Dooku with all the Rach thing.

Huh, so you liked his strawman?

[acryon]

Its actually sounds like a softclaim in 631, to be frank.

This pings me. I don't see why any town would bring forth a possible soft-claim when such person hasn't died yet

What do you make of Sir Cyanide bringing up a possible soft-claim from House (although he later says he changed his mind)?

I now see that Drezi calls this out later on, but I think your follow-up in 653 is not a real answer.

I even liked the way he inquired Dooku with all the Rach thing.

Huh, so you liked his strawman?

I think you are misunderstanding my comments because you keep calling them a strawman for some reason. The comments I made regarding his comment and the connection to Rach were completely legitimate. The only thing that is questionable is the nefarious intent behind it. And that's because of what I explained before. It makes way more sense and gets way more informative reactions to question someone with "Hey what did you mean by this? Seems like you're trying to do X" than "Hey what did you mean by this?" For town, the two are pretty close to equal in terms of difficulty of answering, and for scum, the former is much more annoying to answer. I like somewhat pointed questions significantly more than totally open-ended ones.

[Sakura Hana]

but I think your follow-up in 653 is not a real answer.

I finished that off in 656, when i notice that everyone's being derp like that.

The comments I made regarding his comment and the connection to Rach were completely legitimate.

Wrong, He made a general statement which was pretty clear, and even explained it, when he got reminded off it from Rach's post, even I could see that from an outsider point of view when i was following this game.

The only thing that is questionable is the nefarious intent behind it. And that's because of what I explained before. It makes way more sense and gets way more informative reactions to question someone with "Hey what did you mean by this? Seems like you're trying to do X" than "Hey what did you mean by this?" For town, the two are pretty close to equal in terms of difficulty of answering, and for scum, the former is much more annoying to answer. I like somewhat pointed questions significantly more than totally open-ended ones.

Wrong again.
None of your pressure or digging or whatever you wanna call it if it wasn't a strawman was anywhere about figuring out Dooku's alignment, it was more of the intent of making Dooku look bad despite he making a legitimate statement "It's easy to make a townie Catch-up post" to warn us. When i look at your reasoning "Because he quoted Rach, he's trying to warn us about Rach, since no one else mentioned catch up posts" It looks to me like you're just taking a portion of his statement "He quoted Rach" and ignore everything else to try to put pressure on there, this is called a Strawman, and is one of the tactics i used back on Madoka (The game Drezi's talking about where i replaced in and made a super townie catch up post) to shift the lynch from me to someone else.

[acryon]

Wrong again.
None of your pressure or digging or whatever you wanna call it if it wasn't a strawman was anywhere about figuring out Dooku's alignment, it was more of the intent of making Dooku look bad despite he making a legitimate statement "It's easy to make a townie Catch-up post" to warn us. When i look at your reasoning "Because he quoted Rach, he's trying to warn us about Rach, since no one else mentioned catch up posts" It looks to me like you're just taking a portion of his statement "He quoted Rach" and ignore everything else to try to put pressure on there, this is called a Strawman, and is one of the tactics i used back on Madoka (The game Drezi's talking about where i replaced in and made a super townie catch up post) to shift the lynch from me to someone else.

Ugh I had a post written but have no idea how to restart from a saved draft, so I guess it's lost to the void.

Basically, the two of us each have our perspective, and we are both making assumptions on the intent of his post. So it's a little disingenuous to act like you are operating off of truth and I am operating off of assumption, when we are both operating off of the latter. Just because our perspectives disagree doesn't mean I'm perpetuating a fallacy. Acting like his post had no possible intentional connection to Rach is

at least as bad

as acting like it's the only possibility. Although your's is actually worse since it's a perspective that leads to an action with less pressure than mine.

[Lalendra]

Also, do you think acryon is town or scum, and why?

And one more question: why aren't you voting scumHana/scumfisaro?

I'm getting a town vibe from Acryon, I don't agree with Hana's assessment of his reaction to Dooku's Rach post. He seems to be doing genuine digging and trying to actually get answers from people/reason his way through things, and just seems towny overall from the tenor of his posts. I agree that Hana might be scum, and I wouldn't be opposed to a lynch, but I'm far more convinced that Dooku's slot is scum, which is why my vote is still there for now. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

[pisskop]

. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

Sakura Hana is Death.
Nacho is Rachmarie.

What do you think of Hana's entrance.

[Sakura Hana]

Basically, the two of us each have our perspective, and we are both making assumptions on the intent of his post. So it's a little disingenuous to act like you are operating off of truth and I am operating off of assumption, when we are both operating off of the latter. Just because our perspectives disagree doesn't mean I'm perpetuating a fallacy. Acting like his post had no possible intentional connection to Rach is at least as bad as acting like it's the only possibility. Although your's is actually worse since it's a perspective that leads to an action with less pressure than mine.

Oh?
And isn't that exactly what you did when

he himself explained that it was a general statement that he made?

, It seems that im the one going off the truth and you're the one basing it on an assumption.

[acryon]

Basically, the two of us each have our perspective, and we are both making assumptions on the intent of his post. So it's a little disingenuous to act like you are operating off of truth and I am operating off of assumption, when we are both operating off of the latter. Just because our perspectives disagree doesn't mean I'm perpetuating a fallacy. Acting like his post had no possible intentional connection to Rach is at least as bad as acting like it's the only possibility. Although your's is actually worse since it's a perspective that leads to an action with less pressure than mine.

Oh?
And isn't that exactly what you did when

he himself explained that it was a general statement that he made?

, It seems that im the one going off the truth and you're the one basing it on an assumption.

Do I really have to explain how you and I disagreeing about what someone else said is different than me questioning the actual person about it? Do I also have to explain that I'm not going to take statements of explanation by an individual in question at face value, especially those said by people I suspect?

[Sakura Hana]

It can be noticed easily just by looking at the sequence of posts.

I will try to catch up all

Nice.

@everyone
I want you guys to keep in mind while you read these catch-up posts that it is easier to make catch-up posts/reads look towny.

He makes the statement.

It just sort of seems like your intention with the timing of that comment was to A) make town-Rach look bad to the town before she even gets her first real post, or B) coaching to scum-Rach to be careful about her catch-up post. I feel A) is far more likely.

You are already pegging him for a scum intention without clear knowledge of what he's going for.

Who was talking about Rach? I was talking about the cath-up posts.
Not Rach is the only one who will catch up.

He explains that he made a general statement.

Well you did post it shortly after her catch-up intent and quoted her on the same post.

You already proceed to discredit his statement, and twist it to your own views.

And what? It is ridiculous. Everything I say in one post have to be related?!
Of course I was talking about her too. But not only about her. Deathfisaro and croboss will do a cath up for example (at least I hope they will).

He explains again that it was a general statement.

I mean she posted saying that she was going to catch up. You quote that post and mention that we should be skeptical of catch up posts. Is it actually far-fetched that I relate the two? And she is the only one that actually mentioned a catch-up post as far as I can tell, so I feel like anyone would look at that post and assume you were talking (at least mostly) about her.

You continue to be stubborn that it has to be

your way

. Despite he already explaining himself.

When did I say "be careful with Rach Marie's cath up posts"? Yes. Be careful with them. But not only with them... with every cath up, generally.
It became appropriate when she said that she will do a cath up, so I reminded you.

He explains himself for a third time (I'm surprised he's even still trying to make you understand by this point, if it were me i'd probably would have exploded).

I want to stop this pointless discussion. I don't have anything more to say about it. Vote me, lynch me, stop it.

Then he eventually gets fed up with the discussion, because it is indeed a pointless discussion.

@Dukoo, for the record, I agree with people who claim your 354 is suspect. Whether you meant it that way or not, your post came across as applying at least MOSTLY to Rach.

Then more misunderstandings happen.

I don't even care. I did everything I could, answered every questions (I think).
Lynch me, at least after I flip everyone will see that Riabi, you, Victor, House and Lalendra were talking shit.

This, coupled with his replace out post, seems like he was fed up with people misunderstanding him and wanting him lynched for it.

[House]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[Sakura Hana]

Do I really have to explain how you and I disagreeing about what someone else said is different than me questioning the actual person about it? Do I also have to explain that I'm not going to take statements of explanation by an individual in question at face value, especially those said by people I suspect?

I'm taking what i see from the situation, he made his post, you twist it, then convince everyone that the twisted one version is the truth, he gets fed up with the misreps and replaces out.
Where along this line have you ever considered the possibility of Town Dooku going exactly for what he explained he did as a possibility?

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

If you think naked votes faze me you're wrong.
Tho if you want to lynch me i at least want to interact with everyone before then so i can have some decent reads before i die.
Specially Nacho

[House]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

If you think naked votes faze me you're wrong.
Tho if you want to lynch me i at least want to interact with everyone before then so i can have some decent reads before i die.
Specially Nacho

Not particularly worried about phasing people who can't spell it.

[pisskop]

faze and phrase are homonyms, House

[pisskop]

faze and phase are homonyms, House

EBWOP

[House]

faze and phase are homonyms, House

EBWOP

In a world that makes "bootilicious" a word, perhaps. But I live in reality land where words have meaning, and faze is an illiterate knock off of phase.

[House]

That was a fun sideline. Back to your regularly scheduled scumhunting, peeps.

[Lalendra]

. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

Sakura Hana is Death.
Nacho is Rachmarie.

What do you think of Hana's entrance.

Ugh, there are so many replacements and lurkers in this game I can't keep up. Let me ISO Hana and get back to you in about 2 mins.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Naked votes are boring. Can you give your reasoning? I am on the same page I think but would like to know the reasons for your scumread.

I'm taking what i see from the situation, he made his post, you twist it, then convince everyone that the twisted one version is the truth, he gets fed up with the misreps and replaces out.
Where along this line have you ever considered the possibility of Town Dooku going exactly for what he explained he did as a possibility?

I wouldn't say that Acryon convinced everyone via misrep - some of us (i.e., me) interpreted Dooku's post exactly the same way Acryon did. I didn't need it spelled out for me via misrep, I came to the same independent conclusion. And I don't necessarily think that Town Dooku couldn't have done that, but his backpedaling and blowing up at the end does not read towny to me.

In a world that makes "bootilicious" a word, perhaps. But I live in reality land where words have meaning, and faze is an illiterate knock off of phase.

*bootylicious

[Lalendra]

Ok so as for Hana's entrance.

I don't like the strawman argument in 595, perhaps it's because I agree with Acryon's read of Dooku's actions but I just feel like Hana is building a case on Acryon based on a misrep, and it's just not that strong. As Acryon pointed out, it is possible for two people to have different interpretations of the same action, and just because they don't agree doesn't necessarily mean that one is scum and one is town - I do, however, think that Hana is scum and Acryon is town.

The vote for pisskop in 637 makes sense to me, but then the switch back to Acryon in 657 feels forced. It might just be because she felt like she had more on Acryon than on pisskop, but that doesn't make much sense to me, given that she had far more interaction with pisskop than with Acryon up until that point.

I don't like her non-response in 661, Victor is asking a yes-no question but it's clearly to obtain information, and her giving a flat "Yes I did." by way of response is withholding. It's just one level up from ignoring his question entirely.

She never did explain what she meant in post 676, maybe everyone else is more familiar with this term and was able to understand what she meant better than I was just by reading the wiki on Amished, but I don't like that she ignored my request for clarification.

[House]

. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

Sakura Hana is Death.
Nacho is Rachmarie.

What do you think of Hana's entrance.

Ugh, there are so many replacements and lurkers in this game I can't keep up. Let me ISO Hana and get back to you in about 2 mins.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Naked votes are boring. Can you give your reasoning? I am on the same page I think but would like to know the reasons for your scumread.

acryon is town. Sakura is being manipulative.

In a world that makes "bootilicious" a word, perhaps. But I live in reality land where words have meaning, and faze is an illiterate knock off of phase.

*bootylicious

Sorry, I'm not well-versed in ghetto speak.