Drawn on Arrival: The Movie: The Game (GAME OVER!)

[Psyche]

Gilga
did you screw with me?

[Cheetory6]

Heartless, you are not good enough of a player to be condescending to me.

[Heartless]

It is still quite possible that Heartless is scum - simply claim D1 negative utility (with nothing really provable/with easily faked utility, and a claim like this seems more likely to come from scum than Sera's actions today, despite my townread on them for the random d1 claim), kill farside at Night. farside seems to be a more logical NK target from multiple factions as opposed to Heartless, which is an unlikely anti-town NK target (vig, possibly). They could still have received the BP vest or another invention, potentially picking up on PR vibes from farside; I initially disliked the "GODDAMMIT FARSIDE" comment at start of day. It reeked of overdramatic. The players in the Heartless slot would be prepared enough as scum to research mod-meta for handling BP-related stuff before making the claim to add legitimacy.

>d1 our claim was all good in the neighborhood, but now it's not so cool
>you give TONS of leeway to sera and pull the "too scummy to be scum card" and then suddenly nuke our townread from d1 into orbit over far fetched specultion
>you apparently know enough of tth and i's meta to write the last sentence, but you still want to call my post "overdramatic"

[Heartless]

I'm fine with more pressure on BROseidon, Shaft, and

Aristophanes

.

lol

[Psyche]

it's true that often heartless's mania or whatever often leads them to be borderline assholes

[Heartless]

XD

[Heartless]

...what do you mean "borderline"...?

[Gilgamesh King Of Heroes]

If you want to call me scum for playing devil's advocate, I can understand your line of reasoning even if your end result is incorrect.

I feel there is no use in sitting back and allowing a wagon to build when I have conflicting thoughts and doubts that no one else seems to be considering.

If I am wrong and Seraphim flips scum, I am assuming I shall be eating rope - especially after the ika scumflip considering my reads on him yesterday.

PE:
Psyche - no

Heartless - Yes, your claim was fine. After there is a counterclaim, things change. You are dismissing my thoughts despite the scenario not being static, which is fallacious.

I'm not saying he's too scummy to be scum. It's Occam's Razor and lack of scum motivation.

I am aware that Antihero, at the least, is proficient enough to pull off such a fakeclaim. I have not played with TTH - actually, I am not sure if I have actually played games with either of you. I have no firsthand meta experience with either of you.

Do you disagree that you have the skill to pull that off as scum? I can understand if you disagree, but do not assume it is impossible to jump to the conclusions that I am.

re:Aristophanes scumread, he's committed a common scumread of mine (that I even commit as scum often on my main) of concentrating too much on specific reasons why people are finding them scum (984 -

I want to know why I am being scum read.

).

[Gilgamesh King Of Heroes]

EBWOP: common scumtell, not scumread.

[Cheetory6]

Did you not read my post, mongrel? Is Scum-Heartless immune to receiving inventions from farside?

Missed bolded part because I'm a dumdum.

kill farside at Night. farside seems to be a more logical NK target from multiple factions as opposed to Heartless, which is an unlikely anti-town NK target (vig, possibly).

They could still have received the BP vest or another invention

, potentially picking up on PR vibes from farside;

I think of all things to doubt, Heartless bullshitting their role is one of the literal last things I expect atm.
If they're scum, I think they are what they say they are. To pretend that Heartless would make up a role which would literally constantly be forced to be tested in so many ways and will probably force them to get cleared as a policy pre-LyLo kill is ridiculous.

Do you think scum-Seraphim decided to ignore Heartless, go 'oh shit hold on' and fabricate a false line of reasoning leading into a counterclaim in the two minute span after ignoring them?

Nah. In my head it makes more sense that Sera would be 2-shot bulletproof or something and it is indeed actually his role and that it potentially is different in mechanics from what farside's BP does. I just think he's using it as a reason to throw doubt onto Heartless right now rather than actually trying to sort and engage the situation.

Assume Sera is town. Assume his roleclaim is truthful. Actually, assume you have Sera's role. Someone claims that their role doesn't function the way your does. Even if it's a 'hard townread', would you not react the same way he is (962, 1017)?

Ok.
Now follow my thoughts on this:
Assume Sera is town, hardreading Heartless as town. "Heartless is obvtown to me right now!"
Heartless claims that her bulletproof was used and pushes a case on Sera.
Sera responds by overdramatically claiming that Heartless has to be scum because the bulletproof working differently?
I would have a moment of hesitation if I got a cop guilty on my biggest townread. Wouldn't you?

[Seraphim]

Right now, I am going to make a post where I respond to all of the mechanics and posit exactly what I think in regards to theories that have popped up. In a later post (hopefully tonight, definitely tomorrow), I will rebut Heartless's case on me. Also, I would be a liar if some of the people jumping on this wagon are scum as fuck; remember that (a) once I've flipped town and (b) once Heartless has been lynched and flipped scum. I apologize for how huge this post is.

are you trying to say that you think farside knew they were pgo, planned on dying and gave them multiple vests, and that they're lying about the vests being gone and that's why you're scumreading them?

I am saying:

Farside knew about Heartless being a PGO
Therefore, Farside knew she was going to die last night.
Therefore, Farside should have given them multiple vests rather than just the one.
However, Heartless only claimed one vest.
Therefore, it would seem that Farside did not know that she was going to die last night.

One alternative likelihood is that Farside was redirected last night, though that does not affect the main brunt of my contention:

There is a major, important different between how my bulletproof functions and how Heartless's bulletproof functions even though no different exists in Farside's flipped PM and my own PM, which is mainly why I am voting for Heartless.

i feel like sera keeps contradicting himself, stepping over his own words and attempting to gloss over/somewhat ignore it afterward; in other words the scumread is a big deal not specifically because of role contradictions but because of self contradictions.

Point out literally one time where I have contradicted myself or don't go around spewing bullshit plz thanks.

Also,
VOTE: Seraphim.
Full-BPs don't get informed they're shot, normally.
X-shot BPs near-universally DO get informed they're shot, soyeah.

I did not get informed. That's the point. No one has claimed full bulletproof. Actually, this bolsters my assertion.

Heartless claims that it is the case that when they are targeted for a kill, they are informed; not only that, but they were targeted last night for a kill using up their bulletproof.

.............. what?

how are those two different things?

and who really got farside's invention then, sera?

Those are two different things. Default: bulletproofs are not informed when they are shot at. That is how my role works. The invention you claim to have gotten from

I have no idea who got farside's invention. Maybe someone from your scumteam roleblocked her as well as killed her?

I am the Lumpy Space Princess. I have two abilities: one is my one-shot BP. The other is a two-shot self-redirector which takes a person's ability and redirects it to me that night. I took no action last night because it was not obvious who the scum were so I did not attempt to eat the kill...also I would not have been informed (WHICH IS WHY I ASKED IN THE FIRST PLACE) if I had been shot rendered my role useless as a quasi-Watcher type.

....

ok..........

so, it never occurred to you that them not telling you when the bp is used WOULD BE FOR BALANCE to NERF THIS ROLE

how you would jump to the conclusion that would be applied universally is completely beyond me

BECAUSE BULLETPROOFS NOT GETTING INFORMED IS THE DEFAULT.
I ASSUMED IT WOULD BE APPLIED UNIVERSALLY BECAUSE IT IS THE UNIVERSAL.
THERE IS NOTHING IN FARSIDE'S PM THAT SUGGESTS DIFFERENTLY HERE.

The mod didn't tell us we were targeted for a kill. Anti never said they did.

He told us the bulletproof shot was used up

and from that

Anti drew the

obvious

logical conclusion we were targeted for a kill.

I am not informed when I am targeted for a kill.

Maybe it's just the wording, but did you ask if you are informed when your Bulletproof vest is used up?

The way this is worded, you are sounding like you are a self watcher.

I was told that I would not be told when my bulletproof was expended.

no. read my fucking post.

If farside didn't forget Heartless was PGO AND targeted Heartless, the only reason would be to sacrifice herself to protect Heartless. In which case, she knew she was dying, in which case, she should of (by her role PM) used up all her inventor "shots" to fully protect Heartless. Which, by Heartless's own admission, did not occur.

He would/should admit to having 0, 1 or 2 vests given to him by Farside. It tells us how Farside died while otherwise leaving the WIFOM for the scum to figure out.

Are you trying to contend Farside didn't give him the invention and he's lying about causing her death?

I am contending that Heartless is lying about getting the invention.

@Sera

, do you think it's at all plausible that you and Heartless could have differently functioning bulletproofs? Like, do you think it's possible that the mod would have informed Heartless that upon getting the bulletproof, it was ruined?

It's possible but there is currently no evidence for it besides idle speculation. I have three pieces of evidence for my claim. (1) How BPs usually work i.e. not getting informed, (2) My own role PM and the question I asked the Mod, and (3) Farside's flipped role PM.

I mean, I don't think Heartless would lie about getting the invention. I don't know why they would do that as they could really easily get CCed on the invention? Was basically asking Gilga why his thought process landed anywhere but there.
I don't know if Heartless is conftown, but there's absolutely no way they'd fake getting an invention.. that makes no sense to me.

There are a number of reasons why Heartless could expect to not be CC'd. Why fake an invention? Because farside was dead, no other way to confirm, coast as confirmed town for the rest of the game.

[Seraphim]

MOD: If Farside hypothetically would have given a bulletproof vest invention to another player, would that player have been informed if that bulletproof would have been used up?

[pirate mollie]

I think you look scummy in 1137 gilly.

do you think i am being immature, passive aggressive and useless?

and to "but why?" question I am going to go ahead tell you that your post lacks a certain oompf to it. there is a distinct lack of focus of your posts that I received on the brunt end in cursed. you hounded the fuck out of me and here it just seems like you are going through the motions.

help me understand you better

[Gilgamesh King Of Heroes]

To pretend that Heartless would make up a role which would literally constantly be forced to be tested in so many ways and will probably force them to get cleared as a policy pre-LyLo kill is ridiculous.

Actor and Hated are the only confirmable modifiers. It's possible they are scum lying about the other modifiers.

Assume Sera is town, hardreading Heartless as town. "Heartless is obvtown to me right now!"
Heartless claims that her bulletproof was used and pushes a case on Sera.
Sera responds by overdramatically claiming that Heartless has to be scum because the bulletproof working differently?
I would have a moment of hesitation if I got a cop guilty on my biggest townread. Wouldn't you?

If I got a cop guilty on my biggest townread... well, I wouldn't investigate a hard townread, but I get your point. I wouldn't show much hesitation - I would still claim the guilty, vote, and sort things out after.

pedit:

Mollie, I was calling Heartless those things, not you.

I have a preference for playing Mini games. Not to mention I had a strong scumread on you in that game. Here, there are more players and more nuances and I am still attempting to figure things out. Hence playing devil's advocate in this situation and wanting more information out of BROseidon and so on.

[Psyche]

i wonder if anyone here did something last night without getting redirected

[Heartless]

There are a number of reasons why Heartless could expect to not be CC'd. Why fake an invention? Because farside was dead, no other way to confirm, coast as confirmed town for the rest of the game.

do you know how an inventor works?

[Heartless]

Mollie, I was calling Heartless those things, not you.

you're actually calling me, Antihero, those things

[Heartless]

I have no idea who got farside's invention. Maybe someone from your scumteam roleblocked her as well as killed her?

so... how does a scum roleblocker already flipping fit into your theory here?

[Cheetory6]

i) Why would anyone use a roleblock and a kill on a single person in a game this big? Unless scum roleblocked and killed farside [which I doubt hugely], then there's no reason to believe that Heartless didn't get a bulletproof. It's an entirely different ballgame whether the bulletproof actually got used and Heartless is lying, but then that begs other questions that I'm surprised you haven't asked yourself if Heartless was genuinely a townread for you on D1.

ii)

Farside knew about Heartless being a PGO

Are you sure about this? Why?

iii) It feels like you have to jump through like ten hoops to get to the conclusion you've reached.
You being this confident about scumHeartless given how this looks to me just feels really fake.

iv) What do you make of the modmeta that Heartless posted about the bulletproof stuff?

[Heartless]

BECAUSE BULLETPROOFS NOT GETTING INFORMED IS THE DEFAULT.

we literally just asked the mod in the thread and that is not what they said.

[Cheetory6]

@Sera

:

I realise you are not asking me, but I'm going to say that Farside overlooking a claim and just going with her top town read isn't that out of character in my opinion. I believe Heartless 100 percent. I am not fussed about the number of assumed and claimed bulletproofs floating around right now.

Do you disagree with Bookitty's assessment of what happened with farside?

Actor and Hated are the only confirmable modifiers. It's possible they are scum lying about the other modifiers.

You're saying that you think Heartless probably got the invention last night cycle, but you think they might be lying about the PGO aspect?

[estival]

Oh oh Gilgamesh broke out of character. The fourth wall has collapsed.

[Heartless]

Do you disagree that you have the skill to pull that off as scum? I can understand if you disagree, but do not assume it is impossible to jump to the conclusions that I am.

"jump" in this case is a juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuump

you either have to think tth or i made up the claim (lol, ok someone tell me quadz and ut didn't come up w/ a "shitwheel" role)
or you have to think quadz and ut stuck us w/ a claim with provable stuff in it (post restriction/actor)
or you have to think the role is scum and is neg utility (?????)

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
this really doesn't have much to do w/ "skill"

[Cheetory6]

I think if Sera is scum then Gilga is probably town.
I don't think he'd defend a scummate after Sera got put in the hotseat this cycle for doing the same thing D1.

[Hostile Intent]

Seraphim scum-flails ftw!