Mini #1647: Eine Kleine Nacht-Mord, Game Over

[Marquis]

I'll do my best to continue where I left off after work and classes, but if not then I promise to replace out (for once I recognize my reluctance to inconvenience the mod is probably less important than prolonging my presence in this game at this level of commitment- and I now also recognize that was a really weird way to put it so in other words I realize it's better to replace out sooner rather than having it be a constant risk later).

[Derangement]

So I reread Marquis' Post 347, where he explains that he lied due to fear of being quickhammered, then claims VT, and now I feel the need to ask:

Do quickhammers without declaration of intent, this far from the deadline, really happen outside of newbie games with any frequency?
If any of you feels they might do such a thing, what is your reasoning for not declaring intent first?

[Untrod Tripod]

no it doesn't (which is why the whole OH NO UT PUT SOMEONE AT L1 thing is incredibly fucking stupid)

[Derangement]

Thankies.
The discussion prompted by the early L-1 made me think that quickhammers only really happen by accident (or by "

accident

"), and not because anyone actually thinks lynching without declaring intent first might be a good idea.

Which is why I'm finding Marquis' reaction to his own L-1 a bit

too

panicky.

---

As an aside: Yay! Another person with a kitty avatar now! :3

[Untrod Tripod]

I accepted his buddying offer, can't vote him now sorry

[LlamaFluff]

When did you call me out on bad logic? In post 303? I responded to that in 340. Is that the first backpedal?

Where you said that we should lynch one of the onion players (then called it a reaction test immediately after people called you scum for it) and then saying Marquis is null but a good lynch that leads to...

As for the 2nd backpedal, I'm not allowed to change my read from null to town for Marquis? He made a post of substance, he's talking about the game. Do scum regularly buddy with unpopular posters?

Apparently him catching up through page three (of almost a 20 page game) and calling you null-town and then not posting anything else really for 48 hours is big town tell to you?

So yes. Two things you did that were scummy, each time you immediately back off on it when called. Onion thing turns into a "reaction test" and Marquis apparently voting almost the minimum amount of content possible is enough to move him from a "good lynch" to "town" which coincidently coincides with people saying that was a very scummy stance.

[petroleumjelly]

Day One, Vote Count #16

Marquis – 4 – TellTaleHeart, GuyInFreezer, Derangement, Onion Bubs
prawneater – 3 – LlamaFluff, Equinox, Untrod Tripod
LlamaFluff – 1 – prawneater
Untrod Tripod – 1 – onion

With

11 alive

it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is

March 5, 2015, at 6:45 AM PST

.

Not Voting – 2 – ChannelDelibird, Marquis

[prawneater]

Where you said that we should lynch one of the onion players (then called it a reaction test immediately after people called you scum for it) and then saying Marquis is null but a good lynch that leads to...

This is a misrepresentation. "People called you scum for it" Who are these people? No one except you called me scummy after my onion question. I didn't push it further because no one cared.

I still don't see you pointing out any bad logic from me. You can lynch a nullread player on the basis that their actions are anti-town. Do you disagree?

Apparently him catching up through page three (of almost a 20 page game) and calling you null-town and then not posting anything else really for 48 hours is big town tell to you?

So yes. Two things you did that were scummy, each time you immediately back off on it when called. Onion thing turns into a "reaction test" and Marquis apparently voting almost the minimum amount of content possible is enough to move him from a "good lynch" to "town" which coincidently coincides with people saying that was a very scummy stance.

"people saying that was a very scummy stance"

Again, who are these people? Just you? This is another misrepresentation.

Yes, I find town tells in single posts. Don't you?

Sorry, but are you ESL? Your posts are very difficult for me to read and you use plural nouns in places you shouldn't.

[onion]

not to come to the rescue of one of the people i'm trying to lynch, but one of the 'people' Llama is talking about is me. I think Prawn's idea of lynching one of the onions was either an unfunny joke, or a rather scummy plan indeed. i don't want to lynch Bubs, because he's on my probably-town list at the moment. Not that building cases on people not many people think are scum is a bad thing. Its in all of our interests to hear why you think people are suspicions and why you think we should lynch them, but 'because they are both onions' is a pretty terrible case. making that joke cost prawn a bit of town-cred, not that he had town-cred to begin with...

And i don't see buddying between Marquis and Prawn. I do see Marquis mildly town-reading Prawn and Prawn wholeheartedly town-reading him back. is that what buddying means? it does seem a tad strong reaction from Prawn assuming the same lack of information we all have on Marquis. Again, the Pro-town method include changing your opinion slowly and showing the evidence that changed it. This was a fast change of opinion. making it anti-town, possibly scummy.

Neither of these 2 points are worth lynching over, but they are totally worth keeping in mind. I'd like to study the case against Prawn in depth, but people disregarded my 326, so i lack the direct evidence to do such. Our lazy players HATE going back and digging out questions from previous posts apparently, so i'll repeat the questions here and add some new ones.

@Prawn, in 139 you list townreads for Telltale, Equinox, Tripod, Derangement and GIF, and a suspicion of Llama. Do you still hold these views? Care to add/subtract/change/be useful about any of these? its been a long time since then. Why are you voting for Llama?

@GIF, do you think Llama is scum? Why or why not?

@Bubs, you were voting for Prawn for a bit. were you voting for him because you hated how he didn't explain things? Has your opinion changed? Why do you prefer a Marquis lynch over a Prawn lynch?

@Llama, did you REALLY vote for Prawn because he was making fun of your votes, calling them 'preservation votes'? What other reasons do you have?

@Equinox, caught up yet? Tell me about your vote on Prawn. what is the most convincing case to you?

[Marquis]

in over my head here. need to learn from my mistakes.

replace me out, please.

[Derangement]

As a quick reminder, these questions for Bubs haven't been answered yet:

What did you hope to accomplish, by voting Prawn?
What do you hope to accomplish, by voting Marquis?

Stalker report:
Bubs last post was on

Tue, 24/Feb/2015 01:12:37

Post #333 was made on

Tue, 24/Feb/2015 08:21:44

Onion Bubs last logged in on

Thu, 26/Feb/2015 00:26:38

Approximate current time:

Fri, 27/Feb/2015 08:20:00

@mod: Could we please prod Bubs?

[Derangement]

@prawn:

Because L-3 is pretty far away from lynch. L-2 is much better.

Would you also have voted if he'd been at L-2, before your post?

Maybe.

I think I'd like to know more about this, after all.
Could you please elaborate, Prawn? :3

Did you miss the question, or are you choosing to not answer?

[Derangement]

in over my head here. need to learn from my mistakes.

replace me out, please.

*hugs the Marquis*

Sorry to see you go.
Hopefully things will look better for you soon. :3

UNVOTE: Marquis

[Untrod Tripod]

in over my head here. need to learn from my mistakes.

replace me out, please.

bye

thanks for giving it a shot

[TellTaleHeart]

I liked your drunken rooster better, UT.

[Derangement]

I liked your drunken rooster better, UT.

You had your birdy-time.
Us kitties need love too!

[TellTaleHeart]

Why are you voting prawn, UT?

[prawneater]

@onion I kinda just wanted to tell you to iso me, but I do have a couple of new points:

OLD STUFF

I like TTH's post 71

I like many of Equinox's posts.

I like UT giving Derangement towncred (I agree that Derangement looks town)

I think GIF is more town than not. I don't know GIF, but I think if I were scum in that spot, I'd look up my games rather than ask if I was in that game. If I was town in that spot I think I'd just ask and not bother looking it up.

I don't like LF's attack on GIF. I read it as scum under pressure trying to contrive a scummy angle on someone else.

NEW STUFF

I am friends with Marquis.

I like CDB for his attack on TTH.

I like Onion's posts 175, 181, 408

Llamafluff is scum TL;DR: he's not trying to figure out the game, he's just trying to push wagons with whatever bad logic he can muster.

I'm OK with lynching onion bubs, but that's more POE than me thinking he's scummy.

Let's kill LF guys.

[prawneater]

@Marquis Why are you voting me?

[petroleumjelly]

Day One, Vote Count #17

Marquis – 3 – TellTaleHeart, GuyInFreezer, Onion Bubs
prawneater – 3 – LlamaFluff, Equinox, Untrod Tripod
LlamaFluff – 1 – prawneater
Untrod Tripod – 1 – onion

With

11 alive

it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is

March 5, 2015, at 6:45 AM PST

.

Not Voting – 3 – ChannelDelibird, Derangement, Marquis

Onion Bubs has been prodded.
Searching for a replacement for Marquis.

[onion]

I'm pretty sure we shouldn't policy lynch the former-marquis slot this day. While he was very lurky, and we even got a roleclaim out of him, and Lynch All Lurkers is a pro-town tactic, the possibility of getting someone useful very well might outweigh that. if newguy is useless as well, and we can determine that before N1, we probably should policy lynch him. i'm not holding my breath for that though. 400 posts is quite the chore to replace into.

oh look a reads list! complete lists are srsly no bueno because they provide fuel for scum to needle the little things like 'why am i 6th instead of 7th on the list' which bogs down the scumhunting, which is what they want, which is why we shouldn't do it. but top 2 lists are fine maybe i guess. is it even a list if its so short?

ONION'S TOP TWO LIST
Top Two Town
0) onion, because onion isn't scum. i'd know.
1) Derangement, because he's so freaking useful. He's done thing but argue for pro-town stances, he votes intelligently, and is active.
2) Bubs, because while sorta lurky, he's posted enough pro-town useful stuff to be awesome. i particularly liked his argument for town transparency.

Top Two Scum
1) Tripod, because he's anti-town as fuck, he's on the Cogito list, he L-1'd someone page 3... what else, his 'we should hammer him' jokes are suspicious and not funny.
2) um, either Llama or Prawn. Llama's really kicked up his game recently, and is explaining himself better, making better decisions. Maybe its just Llamascum figuring out what i want and giving it to me, i dunno. And open questions out for Prawn, which will really stick him into this slot or not when answered i hope.

PS: oops, new post from prawn while writing this. haven't read that yet. no time all of a sudden whoosh.

[LlamaFluff]

Llamafluff is scum TL;DR: he's not trying to figure out the game, he's just trying to push wagons with whatever bad logic he can muster.

Is this why you have the second most votes in the game with a few others actively calling you scummy?

Notice how Prawn immediately dismissed (again) my push on him by saying that only I saw things as scummy. Which apart from being a blatant lie (Equinox voted him for similar things, UT appears to have as well, CDB, onion and OB have been calling him scum for the same things) is just a way of actually again dismissing my attacks without really answering them.

Like how he apparently thinks that Marquis catching up through page three and saying he is kinda town is a strong town tell for Marquis, immediately after saying that him lurking was something to lynch him for. Not really going to buy that someone catching up through not even 20% of the game and giving no substantial reads is a town tell, sure you can get a "strong townread" off a player for a post, but even the reason contradicts what he is dismissing my attacks over.

Basically look at it this way: Prawn says I was the only one calling him scum for a couple of posts so that apparently invalidates me calling him scum. Then he says Marquis calling him town is a towntell (after being called out on intent to hammer Marquis on bad reasoning) because he is an unpopular player. Those two things don't add up, unless he thinks that me calling him scum (remember - according to him no one agrees with me) makes him super unpopular or something like that.

[petroleumjelly]

NJAC replaces Marquis

.

[onion]

omg lynch njac rabble rabble

Prawn reads TellTale as town due to 071, which is TellTale defending his vote on Llama. i don't see anything in it. Prawn didn't even post after that for 2 pages. Someone else go read 071 and tell me if it sounds townish.

Prawn likes many of equinox's posts. so do i. done.

Prawn likes Tripod, because Tripod said he liked Derangement? Where was this exactly? are you talking about 049 because its pretty sarcastic. Do you put no stock in Tripod actually wanting to lynch Llama back in the day? he even requested hammer...

Prawn likes GIF because of the Cogito List reaction. i dunno, i guess its a thing you could reasonably like. i generally dislike GIF due to his unwillingness to straight up answer questions and be cross examined. But i can believe that his reaction to the Cogito List might be construed as townish.

Prawn doesn't like Llama because he thinks Llama's attack on GIF is suspicious. Which attack would that be? are you talking about 234? At the time, Llama DID have the most votes on him (3, being Prawn, Tripod and TellTale), it doesn't seem that different from 071 which you apparently really liked. Also, Llama also expressed suspicions of Tripod only a few posts later. That might support your case. go anything else?

[Untrod Tripod]

Prawn likes Tripod, because Tripod said he liked Derangement? Where was this exactly? are you talking about 049 because its pretty sarcastic. Do you put no stock in Tripod actually wanting to lynch Llama back in the day? he even requested hammer...

reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I guess