Micro 447: Shameless Mafia -- Game Over!

[Toon Fighter]

I did that in my FIRST post in this game. No one went through with it. No one claimed because of that. We already had this discussion yesterday, more than once. Why don't you look for scum somewhere else?

And, btw, who did you cop tonight?

[shos]

The subject was brought back up when I scumread you for that. then discussion rose again and this was the result.

I tried to cop droog, but failed.

[Aneninen]

(1) Both ToonFighter and Shos were at L–1 after VC1.13. (After my 353)

Shos Wagon: Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas, Toon Fighter
ToonFighter wagon: shos, estival, ArcAngel9, Aneninen

(2) The sequence of events from that point.
– Estival unvoted. (Estival is confirmed townie)
– ArcAngel unvoted.
– Estival re-opened the TierShift wagon.
– VC1.14: Shos at L–1 (unchanged), ToonFighter with 2 votes, TierShift with 1 vote. The VC said

less than 12 hours

.
– ToonFighter voted for Aneninen. (Estival voted for TierShift but she had already been voting for TierShift at that time.)
– ThisChristmas votes for ToonFighter. (Both Shos and ToonFighter are at L–2, 3–3 votes.)
– ToonFighter votes for TierShift.
– Aneninen votes for TierShift.
– Estival unvotes.
– ThisCristmas votes for TierShift.
– Druuge votes for ToonFighter but he votes for TierShift in his next post. TierShift is at L–1.
– Day ends.

Conclusion #1. Estival's vote moving seems as if he'd been trying to sabotage the Lynch. Assuming that a NoLynch is bad for the town, it was very scummy – yet he was Nightkilled!

He must have done or said something which was detrimental to the scums!

(3) Between VC1.14 and VC1.16 (final), so, in the last 12 hours the following players were here:
– ArcAngel, ThisChristmas, Estival, Shos, ToonFighter, Alchemist, Druuge, Aneninen
(In the order of appearance; last post closest the Deadline comes Last.)
corresponding TimeTags are

Mar 06, 2015 11:27 pm

and

Mar 07, 2015 11:09 am

; CET

– before ToonFighter's vote for Aneninen (386) the Shos-wagon was L–1.
Conclusion#2: if Shos's scum, ToonFighter derailed his wagon. Although he could have done so earlier too.


(4) All-around site activity of players getting close to Deadline (only the fact that they were posting somewhere, without mentioning anything about the certain posts, games or whatever) – we get no new info here. Everyone'd been active in this thread for the last time before the Deadline.

Conclusion#3: I can see no players directly sabotaging the Lynch, it could have been an unfortunate coincidence as well.

[Toon Fighter]

@Shos: If you were so sure I was scum, why didn't you cop me?

@Anen: I can see scum trying to kill estival because he claimed Ian, and they thought he might be a power role. Related to that...

@AA9: Why did you ask for estival to nameclaim? What was your purpose there?

[Alchemist21]

Y u tunnel on me?

(+1 internet points for eurotrip reference)

bdcause yiu are scum, duh. You made multiple people claim name/role unneededly, which helps scum infinitely free.
Tge wagon on you had so much resistance its incredible. The fact that TS' wagon rose so close to deadline and so high proves for me that TS is town, and I am sure that in his wagon there is at least 2 scum presence

And yeah, scuzzy

Welp. Ran out of ideas for Ian's flavour

roflollercopterz

You haven't read the game during the night?

I went hitchhiking to paris!

It feels weird to see a L-1 wagon arise right before deadline, not see it hammered and then see the guy leading the wagon vote someone else.

Why wasn't anen your vote yesterday, tf?

Cool Paris!
See what I wrote above please.

I actually kinda agree with you about the TS wagon. It makes sense scum would try to push a wagon on a v/la player since they wouldn't be around to defend themselves. I need to look back at those votes.

[shos]

@Shos: If you were so sure I was scum, why didn't you cop me?

Because I want new info on a nullread, not someone im already sure is cum

[shos]

Scum* lol

[droog]

Ok after really reading the game for the first time I have some remarks to do, topped off with a nice vote. Here it goes:

That was one of the most blatant crumbs I've ever seen, lol.
I hear anen's scumgame is good, though.

From here, and contrary to everyone else's opinion, my initial reaction was that TS and anen might be scum together. Anen's complete, and dare I say, undeserved, reaction to the sentence only makes me more certain of the theory. Alchemist seems like the townie trapped in the discussion. In 20, anen is the first one to bring dodgy into the fold, as he thinks he is obviously connected to TS's opinion on his scumgame. I don't like the exchange on anen's part, and it feels like he is grasping at straws. Initially I thought TS was his scum partner, but after reading the following posts I became more convinced of anen's scumminess but less convinced of TS's. Another post in particular captured my interest:

I know your scumgame is good because I saw it nominated for a scummy. I (closely) follow the nominations, as is evidenced by my egopost in that specific thread. That is the reason I knew it; it would be nonsensical to talk with a scumbuddy about every townie's scum meta.

My problem is that I simply can't ignore your 12, and I don't think I'll ever be able to drop the idea that it was a slip. So I examine all of your posts assuming that you're scum.
For example this one. Yes, we were nominated, I was in an excellent team (Wicked and Heartless). It

is

possible that you saw that but if so, you would have mentioned it

right after

my post about your slip.

So, everyone: here's my idea.
I can't imagine anyone as scum but Tiershift and Dodgy. Because of this, I don't think I can do anything useful Today.
So, let's lynch Tiershift. (Eg. Alchemist thinks that my read about the slip is wrong but Tieshift is scum because of his other posts.)

If he flips town, it's clear that my reads were wrong (and I'm really sorry, of course).

But

in this case you may think that I'm scum who has set up a clever mislynch and it would be risky with an unconfirmed-me in the town. (I'm town but I can't proove it.) So, fire away any kind of investigation you have on me at Night1. (Yes, I might have some kind of immunity, eg. Ninja, but because I have no idea about the Setup I can't have immunity against everything. Jailkeeper doesn't work, it would proove nothing, I suppose. Even a town-Vig shot would be useful, I think.)

If he flips scum, there are two players to be investigated: Dodgy and me. (Why me? Even if Tiershift flips scum, I could be his buddy, who tries to get away with a shrewd Day1-bussing.) Hopefully, by Day2 either Dodgy or me will be confirmed in either way.

Of course, regardless of the flip DO NOT CLAIM any PR prematurely; only if you have a sure read on anyone.

Discuss!

I'm adding this prematurely: Tiershift, if you're scum (especially if you're scum with Dodgy) but my read is wrong and there was no slip at all, I'm really, really sorry for spoiling your game. I don't think it's fair to catch a scum merely by sheer luck instead of good scumhunting.

In the post above, anen tries to dictate town's day and night behaviour for the first two game days, at least, by page three. I don't know if all this paranoia and seeming town leading are frequent in him, but it rubs me the wrong way. Even if you are correct in your theory, even if you had a 100% guilty read on those players, you'd need much stronger arguments to convince me to vote with you, to block and/or investigate you at night, and to basically follow you everywhere. It's just not happening with 2 and a half pages of content, when one of them is pretty much RVS. So, I want some more explanations for these prompts, as they just make me suspect Anen himself. Anen, do you still believe town should follow everything you suggested here? Has your opinion changed in any point?

ToonFighter, I've only seen one episode but mass claiming is probably not the best idea. Why did you suggest it?

The conversation between TierShift, Alchemist, dodgy56, and Aienen seems based on some meta reads?

I can see why scum would talk about another players scum meta if they were to set them up for a lynch but it seems a bit reaching?

I suggested it on the off-chance the game was poorly designed (sorry insanity, but had to check) and that scum had poor fakeclaims/ the game could be broken. If the game is well-designed, mass claiming shouldn't be a problem, if not, it could provide an advantage to town.

As for familiarity with shameless, it ties with the mass claim/ scum's fake claims. Players who haven't watched the show would have a more difficult time coming up with a convincing claim than someone who has watched everything.

In the last three pages, I saw little of note. So, I'll finish this post with my vote:

VOTE: Aneninen

Ok, shos:

1) You voted me for very weak reasoning, the massclaim proposal, the Carl Gallagher nameclaim and the fact that I voted dodgy (which, I still maintain, was a valid vote, as his ISO, though short, was pretty scummy)

2) Your other reads look weak and fake. Your reasons for calling Anen and estival seem rather weak. Also, buddying with AA9 off the bat seems like a scum attempt for some town credit.

3) Your first votes seem off compared to your later play. You vote dodgy at the beginning for no good reason, and backtrack on him. Same with TS. You seem to only read the game after post 200, as your earlier posts look uninterested and in a different style than your later ones. Maybe you were just lazy town, or maybe you were scum who found himself getting wagoned and decided to put some effort in the game.

3) Overall all your reads seem fake and scummy. You point out a couple of town players and just take a bunch of days to complete an ISO, complete with short posts to seem active. You vote me for weak reasons, find almost nothing else scummy in the entire game and just ask your 'townreads' to follow you. I don't think you are town. Your behaviors have little town motivation. Plus, OMGUS.

vote: shos

if your anen case was so great
why did you switch to shos

[droog]

Shooooooos I want you in heeere

<3

good new is aneninen is town

So Aneninen is town for reasons I have yet to disclose; but other than that, ISO #2 is crazily town. even if wrong, the thinking of this slip shows deep town motivation, I think. I mean, when I read TS' post at the first time, I weaved through it without blinking. what scum would respond this way? this also shows effort, which is more town traits.

it's really hard to dig through these long posts but it's ok. just not going to comment in depth. I can firmly call this town though, even if tunnleing, it's most likely town tunneling.

good town.

Anen is somewhat of a grey area. Me elaborating might lead to him changing his behaviour, so I'm not gonna. Atm.

interesting, I had a townread on anen for a reason I did not disclose either. wonder if it's the same.

shos has a piont when he later says
that he never said why he has a anen townread

[droog]

hey tf what do you think of AA

[shos]

I will only be able to disclose the reason I have a townread on anen late in the game

[Aneninen]

@Anen: I can see scum trying to kill estival because he claimed Ian, and they thought he might be a power role. Related to that...

Who suggested it and where? I don't remember.

[droog]

I will only be able to disclose the reason I have a townread on anen late in the game

no worries i dont really care

[Toon Fighter]

@droog: I switched because I didn't see the anen lynch happening yesterday and shos was a great place to park a vote. AA9 is in a confusing place right now. I don't know why she prompted estival to name claim, and want to hear her reasoning on that. Before hearing more from her, I am null, but intrigued.

@anen: you were speculating about estival's death. I provided my share of speculation. Ian is a main character, and could be a power role. That could be a reason for scum killing him.

@shos: did you ever answer me about if you had any mechanical relationship with Ian? Or was it just flavour?

[insanity018]

Lip begins a tumultuous on-and-off relationship with Sheila's daughter, Karen.

Votecount 2.1

Aneninen

(1): Toon Fighter

Toon Fighter

(1): shos

Not Voting

(6): TierShift, Alchemist21, Aneninen, droog, ArcAngel9, This Christmas

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-23 22:00:00)

[Aneninen]

I bet there will be no TierShift wagon now...

ToonFighter: I've never watched Shameless "thoroughly" but I've seen some episodes, so the story isn't a "complete one" in my mind. (I usually watch series while doing housework, playing Mafia, etc. you know.)

So, I'm examining Estival's reads now. (In order of appearance.)

TierShift kind of lean scum but town later.
Votes for This Christmas, 233.
Townreading Shos, 230.
Disliking This Christmas and Druuge because of trolling.
Voting for ToonFighter, 335, because he didn't read Shos's claim.
Unvotes in 359.
Scumreading TierShift in Aneninen, voting for Tiershift in 374.
Saying that This Christmas slipped, in 405.
Townreading ToonFighter and ArcAngel in 415. Lean town on Shos (419).
Saying that he wants to lynch Druuge in 433

________

These players may have gained something by silencing her: This Christmas, Druuge, TierShift, (Aneninen)
These players may have lost something by silencing her: ArcAngel, ToonFighter, (Shos)
No read on: Alchemist
(Less significant-looking names in brackets.)

Is there anyone else who thinks ThisChristmas slipped?

[Toon Fighter]

@anen: TC slipped where or how? Town or scum? I didn't see anything but could read the ISO again

[Aneninen]

Estival posted that. I want to know whether anyone else thinks the same thing.

[shos]

TF, I'm not answering that. no benefit to town, only to scum.

I'm kinda on the fence on voting Droog right now.

[ArcAngel9]

I have to got to get on this game tomorrow guys.. too busy today

[Toon Fighter]

I have to got to get on this game tomorrow guys.. too busy today

kthx, see you then

[Alchemist21]

Reading back, I don't like Droog's and Christmas's votes on TS. They came out of nowhere at the end of day. At least one of them is scum, maybe both.

VOTE: Droog

[TierShift]

Does this mean you are townreading me?

[Alchemist21]

Yes. You were on V/LA at EoD and half the votes on your wagon were crap. I think scum were trying to get you lynched because you couldn't defend yourself.

[ArcAngel9]

@AA9: Why did you ask for estival to nameclaim? What was your purpose there?

Didn't already said why i wanted the names out? Anywayz, I want all the names out so that we can sort the characters accordingly... EX: You are Carl, Carl is a good role and part of Gallagher family, I want to list out vital characters from the show so that our chances of catching scum may improve. Example, If someone claims as Debbie Gallagher, I think the chances of them being town more than Mickey being town, I am more than postive that mod have used Frank, Lip, Fiona, & few other characters who have chances to be town. And estival turned out be Ian... Before this game gets any worse than this.. Can I now have Characters from everyone...

Anennine - You go first Please!!!