New York 182 - Game Over

[Sakura Hana]

Because I'm highly offended that you think theyre worth nothing

So tell me what they are worth then?

[Sakura Hana]

Here i'll show you your whole iso up to that point:

You fuckers blew this game up

^
No content

VOTE: otalia

why are people ignoring this

^
No explanation

Because I like to lynch scum

^
Still no explanation

House's investment in there being a cop in the setup bothers me

^
No idea where you're coming from.

[Otolia]

House's investment in there being a cop in the setup bothers me

What is that supposed to mean?...
*reads ISO*
Wait what? i don't get it, your whole ammount of 4 posts are.... worth nothing.

Why isn't otalia worth a vote?

The question you should ask is how am I even veing voted on. But we'll get to that if you manage to wave your hands high enough people will notice - I don't mention when you hypothetically have a case because that would be too far-fetched. In fact so far, you've posted a meager 58 words (give or take 5). Even by my fairly low standards, that's laughable. But hey, you actually have an opinion so you have that going for you. Good job

[Flubbernugget]

I mean you can tell I have a scum read from them. I'm pretty sure otalia's scumtells are obvious and everyone's hopping on the varsoon train because it's more "exotic."

Do you have a town/null case for otalia?

[Sakura Hana]

I'm pretty sure otalia's scumtells are obvious

What scumtells?
They're obviously not obvious (lol) to me at least.

[Flubbernugget]

House's investment in there being a cop in the setup bothers me

What is that supposed to mean?...
*reads ISO*
Wait what? i don't get it, your whole ammount of 4 posts are.... worth nothing.

Why isn't otalia worth a vote?

The question you should ask is how am I even veing voted on. But we'll get to that if you manage to wave your hands high enough people will notice - I don't mention when you hypothetically have a case because that would be too far-fetched. In fact so far, you've posted a meager 58 words (give or take 5). Even by my fairly low standards, that's laughable. But hey, you actually have an opinion so you have that going for you. Good job

I'm forwarding the game state further than you are with less words while still doing next nothing so you're gonna have to try harder than to discredit me as incompetent.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm pretty sure otalia's scumtells are obvious

What scumtells?
They're obviously not obvious (lol) to me at least.

The majority of his iso is iioa about varsoon

[pisskop]

Choof is town.......Thors continueing push to read Choof is scum is bad.His action were newbie town.

You are choof's slot. Forgive me if I don't quitebelieve every person who claims to be town.

The rest of the post is spot on though.


@Otalia

Do you have opinions on people that aren't Varsoon?
. Is Flubber being scummy?

[Flubbernugget]

. Is Flubber being scummy?

lol

[Sakura Hana]

The majority of his iso is iioa about varsoon

Actually iioa, and a scumread on Varsoon, an "Currently i dig thor" whatever that means, and an opinion about verifying Varsoon's hated modifier (or rather verifying he doesn't have it).
Which is more than your single scumread in your whole ISO.

[Sakura Hana]

Both of you have almost nothing in your ISOs either way.

[pisskop]

Hunh. So looking back I have issues, not all of them mine.

First, I confused copper and choof, and had this post specifically in mind when Choof placed out.

VOTE: choof
I forgot about this one Boon

/Scum/

Second, why am I kowtowing to you? You're part of the problem wrt the newbies placing out. To think I was reading your emotions as genuine.

hahahahaha

silver dog
silver dog
silver dog
silver dog
silver dog

[Marquis]

ok usually i'm really good at keeping track of larges but this is just insane and you guys need to stop getting pissed at people who are struggling

[Flubbernugget]

The majority of his iso is iioa about varsoon

Actually iioa, and a scumread on Varsoon, an "Currently i dig thor" whatever that means, and an opinion about verifying Varsoon's hated modifier (or rather verifying he doesn't have it).
Which is more than your single scumread in your whole ISO.

One scumread + fluff = one scumread

except his fluff comes off as trying to look busy. also he just bettlejuiced and I don't understand why these things aren't self-evident

[Thor665]

@Thor
You are asking me to describe subconscious routines, how do I suspect if someone is lying to me? It's part of my daily life to asses people and try to figure them out so you develop a skill for it, in choof's case I don't see what he did in the other game and followed up with in this one as coming fron scum, let's say he is a ballsy jokester that will always bait votes on himself, do you think he would be as self conscious as he appeared to get when he thought the rest of us were joking at his expense? If he always plays like that he should be used to any kind of reaction from others, more that shows a kind of arrogance or strong belief in self worth that he can manipulate others at will, that kind of player is not liable to replace in a huff, more likely he would figure out the flash wagon's purpose to begin with, and if not would likely laugh along thinking to himself that the joke is going to be on us in the end, I saw none of that from him so that's why I believe he was town here and developed that particular playstile to try and be helpful in Rome.

So "gut" - yeah, that's what I expected. I was confused why you were citing meta when making that value call because it so obviously seemed like it was obligated to be a gut call, and I felt you were mentioning meta to add weight to it. Not really a fan.

Now as to whether your lie makes you scum or not... I haven't decided yet.

What is your debate point on the pros/cons there?

House's investment in there being a cop in the setup bothers me

That seems a pretty safe assumption though - there's almost assuredly at least a single investigative, and Cop or some close variation is highly likely.
I don't even get your issue here.

Thor, do you have any questions\comments you want clarifications on? The least you could do is have some entertaining bits in all of that.

Huh?

1. By heavyweights I meant people who have played several games on the site and so are more aware of its particulars. Length of time on here or hyped up reputations have no meaning to me. But yes, I kind of want to see you "hunt" more then one or two people just to see what the process is.
2. Copper, meh. I liked Copper due to his honest choof read. I will look at the game House linked to see how devious he can be although since he admitted to "white lies" I already surmised that.
3. You didn't focus on Choof but you're questioning of copper seemed to revolve around his read of choof to some degree.
4. You can question me all you like, why would that bother me? My comment was sarcastic.

1. Which then easily brings us back to "Thor didn't really "attack" Choof and also, if what Thor did to Choof was an attack - he has assuredly "attacked" multiple "heavyweights" so...what's your issue again? And, no, I'm not going to randomly hunt extra people - it's a Large.
2. Since when does 'agreed with a read' equate to 'an honest read'?
3. It assuredly does...but...that doesn't make it about Choof - it's about Copper, it is blatantly about Copper and his read.
4. Oh, I missed the funny. Sorry.

• It's a gambit that has no obvious upside for a a townie.

I would presume 'survival' as the upside.

I'm also trying to figure out why Varsoon would claim such a weird role as scum. What is the mindset behind it? Why not claim some vanilla type role?

I would presume "survival".

Choof is town.......Thors continueing push to read Choof is scum is bad.

I agree, that would be bad.
Good thing I'm not doing it in any way at all?
What game are you reading?

I however think that the flash wagon on Vasoon as bad. I think Vasoon prob did panic and fake claim. I am not ready to lynch Vasoon. I want to see how Vasoon keep reacting to the pressure. I think that if he is scum he will slip up again and confirm he is scum. I want to get a better read on him. It kinda seems Thor is trying to push what he sees as easy lynches instead of doing any hard scum hunting. This is disconcerning to me.

I am assuredly pushing Varsoon as a lynch.
Why do you think his claim and reactions (specifically as regards Anti) come from a town mindset?

[pisskop]

Your vote on Varsoon was in response to Sakura

VOTE: varsoon

do you love me now, sakura?

i'm not hammering on this because LOLSETUPSPEC. i'm hammering on this b/c hated is a claim that buys you pretty cheap towncred but is impossible to verify and in this case i'm having doubts that it's even possible

And you threw out a vote because the role wasnt normal.

Posts like 285 are a decent indication that you have issues with tunneling and tryhard.

Seriously, the more I read over our ISOs the more I'm convinced you are calling the kettle black by calling my playstyle 'douschassery'. 301, and posts adjacent to it are prime examples of somebody too emotional in a game. Its like you have ADHD in text form.

436 I will addresss seperately, for the sake of making your special little heart feel more at ease.

The interactions that follow seem forced, imo. consider it an FOS.

[Otolia]

Choof is town.......Thors continueing push to read Choof is scum is bad.His action were newbie town.

@Otalia

Do you have opinions on people that aren't Varsoon?
. Is Flubber being scummy?

1. I do have opinions yes. Most of them won't bring anything to the game like the fact that everyone is posting way too much and that's being harmful to establishing good reads. Some could like the fact that Antihero is displaying an erratic behavior after his compelling demonstration of Varsoon's lying, or the fact that House still hasn't come out of RVS despite explicitly saying Varsoon is scum. If I'm not bringing them up right now, it's because I think there needs to be action taken towards Varsoon. That action can be to consider him a idiot and refuse to take his opinion into account for the rest of the game like the VI he should be treated as, or more simply a good ol' lynch.

2. meh

• It's a gambit that has no obvious upside for a a townie.

I would presume 'survival' as the upside

Which is a pretty moot point. The only townies that should care about survival are Roles because they can bring more to the table than just their opinion. Wanting to survive as an alleged townie is akin to being scum in my opinion. What doesn't benefit Town ends up hurting it.

[elusive]

Sakura, do you think before you fos me lol? Like your post towards me and then your trajectory towards Flubbernugget is you laying out.why he's suspicious. Why don't we work together? Stop hating yo.

[Sakura Hana]

While I agree he's suspicious my issue with you is that you didn't have a problem voting for flubber but you want to "wait for more people to post content" before voting Varsoon. It's not even related to Varsoon himself to begin with.

[Sakura Hana]

From my Point of View you either:
A) Want more people to post content before you decide on who to vote... which doesnt make sense since you voted flubber.
B) Think Flubber's more scummy than Varsoon, in which case why people posting content would be relevant to you voting Varsoon?.

So what I think is you're unsure on busing Varsoon and want your scum partners to tell you what to do, which is why i think the vote on Flubber could potentially indicate Flubber being town, this is however pending on Varsoon's or your flip.

[elusive]

? You don't make sense or are reaching far too much to what's not there

I voted flubber because of pressure on him due to thinking he's possibly scummy. I'm not voting varsoon BC I don't want day to end when not everyone has posted.


Try not making up stories or at least boring ones. That might be your play as scum you're describing.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon wagon makes it easy for scum to hide. Kinda like what otalia's doing

You~<3 On one hand, it's nice when there's people that see eye-to-eye. On the other, those folks have less sway.
Are you ready to know what bothers me? What

really

chuffs me is that everyone is all "What's the scum motivation to that claim? Why would Varsoon scum do that?"
Already there's so many people so confbiased it hurts. No one's openly asking why Town!Varsoon would do it. They'd rather deride me (Otolia) or just flat-out scum read it instead of mulling it over.
Dead-thread will be frustrating. Basically, a scumread on me marks a failure to engage with the game properly. It allows players to cross their arms on a read no one but me is going to call them out for in a game where there's 20 other players.

Sakura!

Sakura, the way that you're so insistent on me doing nothing and crafting this narrative where I somehow haven't done anything is really bothersome and scummy.
You've pretty much ignored my interactions and reads to make that assessment, and you're not even actually engaging with me or my wagon, just spouting off that I'm scummy/useless without any real analysis as to

why

outside of literal lies. It feels transparently scummy to me. You're my next pick after Otolia, who attacks players like House for not engaging when House is far more invested than Flames of Disaster, who entered at the same time and has only contributed a bald vote on me and some trashtalk (<3 you too Flames).

Spoiler:

[copper223]

@Thor
In that sense any tell is gut, you have to interpret what you read so your thought process influences it, I claimed I made that townread with the help of reading his meta, which is what I did, if you want to claim there is another way to use meta that relies less on gut and more on direct comparison of scum vs town meta I agree but that is not what I said, that's you projecting what you think meta cases should be on how I used meta.

@Elusive
Don't worry, I'll still call you obv. town despite your mistakes.

@All
re-reasing tonight because now that I think I know who Gorkinton is and that she was role playing a role tunnelling on me at the start of he day is not unusual and the value of interpreting those blatantly riduculous scumreads goes diwn dramatically cause I know despite pretending to be a dubce here that she is really good.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm not voting varsoon BC I don't want day to end when not everyone has posted.

Except that's not what you said, although that makes more sense than what you said.

[Antihero]

And you threw out a vote because the role wasnt normal.

the argument is pretty simple

varsoon claims hated --> hated isn't a normal role --> varsoon lied --> varsoon's lied BECAUSE he's scum

i backed out because of the arrow between the 3rd and 4th links. i've played w/ scum varsoon and town varsoon before and lying about being hated is something i could conceivably see him doing as town and actually admitting to lying is something that i really don't see him doing as scum. i wouldn't put it COMPLETELY beyond the pale, but there's reasonable doubts now.

it wasn't just a little bitty thing that i was nitpicking at. it goes to the core of varsoon's alignment. lying about a role claim isn't just something you ignore and setup spec is part of how i scumhunt and part of what i do simply because i've run and reviewed so many games.

Seriously, the more I read over our ISOs the more I'm convinced you are calling the kettle black by calling my playstyle 'douschassery'. 301, and posts adjacent to it are prime examples of somebody too emotional in a game. Its like you have ADHD in text form.

MAKE NO MISTAKE. THERE IS A PRETTY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND YOU, PAL

the biting sarcasm in 301

is directed at an ARGUMENT

, not a person. as for the surrounding posts, i don't know what your issue is since Post 297 is me explaining to elusive what the nrg is and Post 304 is me clarifying my argument to thor and they're both pretty tame. the post you're citing about silverwolf was me being drunk and obnoxious one time and i've since apologized for it. silverwolf said she replaced out b/c she couldn't keep up which is understandable given how fast this game is going. same for the other newbies (kittenlicks comes to mind, to this day i don't know what choof's issue exactly was).

you, on the other hand,

attack the person

. Post 446, Post 447, and Post 459 are perfect examples of what i'm talking about. you are NOT attacking my argument, you're attacking me by labeling me as "not too brigh" and "lazy." THAT, buddy, is douchebaggery. and believe it or not, saying the word "fuck" isn't toxic to a game; calling people shitty and stupid is.