Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

Aquanim · Post Post #1000 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:57 pm

For the record, Metalcyanide is now at L-2.

@Mod

: The end-of-day message in the most recent votecount does not reflect the three-day extension given with Taly's modkill.

MonkeyMan576 · Post Post #1001 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:00 pm

In post 1000, Aquanim wrote:For the record, Metalcyanide is now at L-2.

@Mod
: The end-of-day message in the most recent votecount does not reflect the three-day extension given with Taly's modkill.

Mod Responce: Day was originally set to end on march 16th, day is now set to end March 19th with the 3 day extention.

toolenduso · Post Post #1002 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:04 pm

OK couple of things:

-I seriously do not understand RC's weird paranoia about pisskop. Mafia dayvig makes little sense to me and SK dayvig makes absolutely zero sense to me. Mafia dayvig because since when do scum get both a nightkill and a daykill? And why would he use it on a player who could have been easily mislynched? SK dayvig because since when do SKs get both a nightkill and a daykill? And why would he out himself as a target for scum to kill so early in the game? And if there were both a mafia faction and an SK faction, what mod/reviewers in their right mind would let that SK make kills during the day and during the night? That's four kills by the end of N1. I mean, come on.
-At first glance, the idea of having pisskop wait until D2 to take his second shot makes sense to me, if for no other reason than that it should kill any doubts in his claim. But I want to mull over the options a little more and make sure I'm not missing some potential pitfall.
-Yes, I buy RC's claim. I actually saw something earlier today when he was responding to me that I thought could be a crumb:

In post 414, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think that if Taly is scum, it will be extremely, extremely obvious, like far moreso than it is now, later down the line.

-Aqua makes a good point about Metal's stance on Taly, but I think eektor's stance on Taly looks worse:

In post 630, eektor wrote:Well, according to Taly, he thinks two scum is pushing hard to lynch him as a town pr. If Taly flips town, those two people should be getting a whole lot of scrutiny, something scum wouldn't want.

Not to mention the way he interacted with OddMusic, which was to vote him in #146, then basically ignore him until he got killed.

I plan on going back through all ISOs to look at interactions with the Taly wagon/Taly himself, but as of right now I'm going to vote eektor.

VOTE: eektor

eektor · Post Post #1003 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:05 pm

In post 984, pisskop wrote:On Eek

9 is scummy
23 is town
57 is too cautious for my taste
97 is associations Metal/IL. Also Id wager town
278 is meh reads
373 RC and Eek. Would scumeek ignore RC?
539 is town
664 is something I agree with

Eek reads as townier than many But I would like an update on this:

In post 828, eektor wrote:
If you flipped town, I would think one of either Elyse or mykonian is scum and I'll be leaning towards mykonian. Another one would probably be Insidious Lemons and the 3rd is a toss up. About your prior claims and cases, I don't agree with both Elyse or mykonian as being scum buddies but now I see you are switching to mykonian and tools. I'm not sure about tools, but I could probably check him for a possible 3rd mafia. Now, how much help have you been to town. I'll give you one thing, your flip can provide us a lot of information about multiple players, but if you are a town power role that got lynched in the first day without using your powers ... I think its just a waste of a town power role.

If you flip scum, your reads won't be invalid but useful to find your buddies. If you flipped scum, I think Aquanim and Boons could be your buddies.

I still think there is at least one (probably 2) on Taly's wagon. I think one of either Elyse or mykonian is scum, but I can't really decide which one is more scummy. Elyse quickly votes for metal saying its the most informative lynch. I really think we should be focusing on finding scum on Taly's wagon instead of going for the "most informative" lynch. Then mykonian also doesn't pay attention to the people on Taly's wagon and tries to find interest in getting me lynched. It took him a while to vote for me, though.

The reason why I voted for IL is he has been shady all game I think and I think his vote on Taly was pretty low key and he did mention he wasn't sure that Taly was scum, but once Taly claimed he kept his vote on Taly like the claim made him want to keep his vote on Taly.

Other thoughts, I think RC is town, as well as pisskop. I'm starting to think Aquanim is town too. I'm wondering if Boon could be scum.

Aquanim · Post Post #1004 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:20 pm

Perhaps the actual date was updated, I just looked at the bit that said Monday. If so my apologies.

@toolenduso

: Do you think Mykonian's interaction with me from #898 had any validity?

Aquanim · Post Post #1005 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:22 pm

EBWOP: That should read "from #898 onward".

@eektor

: Of all the players on the Taly wagon you haven't mentioned toolenduso. Why?

Elyse · Post Post #1006 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:47 pm

@eektor
I'm not voting for metal because his lynch is the most informative. I'm using that as a reason to vote for him over IL. I am scumreading metal more than I am scumreading anyone else. As far as analyzing the Taly wagon for scum, it's not a full wagon and if there is scum on it I'm guessing it's IL since I am townreading mykonian and tool.

eektor · Post Post #1007 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:50 pm

In post 1005, Aquanim wrote:EBWOP: That should read "from #898 onward".

@eektor
: Of all the players on the Taly wagon you haven't mentioned toolenduso. Why?

because I don't find him that scummy. I think we have a better shot at finding scum between the 3 I mentioned.

Aquanim · Post Post #1008 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:55 pm

@Elyse

: Same question to you as to Toolenduso: Do you think Mykonian's interaction with me from #898 had any validity?

Also, why are you townreading Mykonian in general?

Elyse · Post Post #1009 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:04 pm

Yes, I agree with you in that interaction.

There have been several times throughout the thread where mykonian has posted exactly what I am thinking and I know it's coming from a town mindset. Also, there's one specific time I remember he wanted to interact with me because it would firm up his read on me which made me feel better because there was a slight worry he was buddying me.

Metalcyanide · Post Post #1010 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:52 pm

This game is all sorts of messed up. Town will be minus 4 (at least) by D2 if we don't figure somthing out.

RC your offer to me, was dumb but does say you really don't think I'm scum. Otherwise why allow me to live and then depend on me to vote for someone else you believe to be scum?

I think Pisskop is town, also take your shot tonight.

Is anyone interested in pursuing one of the following: Boon, IL, or The Dude.

I hate to push a luker on D1 but I think we can all agree that we can't agree on who to lynch with who is participating and I think there is a really good chance of hitting scum with one of these 3 and others have expressed that as well.

I would like to push and will vote for Boon. He's done nothing and has only sheeped RC.
UNVOTE: Radiant Cowbells - this isn't going anywhere and if Boon flips scum it might connect the dots on RC being scum.
VOTE: Boonskiies

Aquanim · Post Post #1011 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:08 pm

In post 1010, Metalcyanide wrote:
Is anyone interested in pursuing one of the following: Boon, IL, or The Dude.

Why is eektor not on this list?

Metalcyanide · Post Post #1012 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:58 pm

In post 1011, Aquanim wrote:
In post 1010, Metalcyanide wrote:
Is anyone interested in pursuing one of the following: Boon, IL, or The Dude.

Why is eektor not on this list?

Eektor can & should be on this list. While he has posted recently he doesn't have much substance to his posts.

mykonian · Post Post #1013 (ISO) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:23 pm

In post 1010, Metalcyanide wrote:Boon, IL, or The Dude.

no, yes, very much no.

Aquanim · Post Post #1014 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:05 am

In post 1013, mykonian wrote:
In post 1010, Metalcyanide wrote:Boon, IL, or The Dude.

no, yes, very much no.

Why not TheDudeAbides? I don't think you've mentioned him at all; and just like Eektor he wasn't on either of the wagons before the Taly modkill.

mykonian · Post Post #1015 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:23 am

In post 1014, Aquanim wrote:Why not TheDudeAbides? I don't think you've mentioned him at all

he's one of my earlier townreads. I've seen nothing that changes that opinion yet.

eektor · Post Post #1016 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:25 am

In post 1010, Metalcyanide wrote:This game is all sorts of messed up. Town will be minus 4 (at least) by D2 if we don't figure somthing out.

RC your offer to me, was dumb but does say you really don't think I'm scum. Otherwise why allow me to live and then depend on me to vote for someone else you believe to be scum?

I think Pisskop is town, also take your shot tonight.

Is anyone interested in pursuing one of the following: Boon, IL, or The Dude.

I hate to push a luker on D1 but I think we can all agree that we can't agree on who to lynch with who is participating and I think there is a really good chance of hitting scum with one of these 3 and others have expressed that as well.

I would like to push and will vote for Boon. He's done nothing and has only sheeped RC.
UNVOTE: Radiant Cowbells - this isn't going anywhere and if Boon flips scum it might connect the dots on RC being scum.
VOTE: Boonskiies

IL already has two votes, why did you vote for Boon and not join the IL wagon?

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #1017 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:54 am

RC your offer to me, was dumb but does say you really don't think I'm scum. Otherwise why allow me to live and then depend on me to vote for someone else you believe to be scum?

That's quite an assumption.

It could also mean that I think there's bigger fish to fry.

I think Pisskop is town, also take your shot tonight.

Well, that's pretty much guaranteed that I'm lynching you. Sorry bud.

Some further arguments regarding Pisskop that I have yet to bring up in thread.

1) "Can't be scum/SK dayvig in mini normal."

Sure there can, when you consider that town already has two major PRs and would likely have others. It's balanced. Is it what you'd see standard? No, but nor are day shots in the first place, so once we've already established it's not exactly a "normal" normal setup, things change a bit.

2) "had to announce his shot!"

Did he, though? Excluding the whole WIFOM aspect, just because he did announce his shot, didn't mean he had to. And even if he did, why not balance a scum dayvig by requiring them to be outed to thread? And, perhaps, requiring them to take their shot D1?

What's super towny about him taking his shot D1 anyhow? He basically shot the lowest hanging fruit, didn't really end up helping town at all.

3) "why would he shoot D1 tho."

Any number of reasons.

1) Quick grab for towncred.
2) Compulsive. (Most compelling!)
3) Mafia and has setup info that suggests no other night kills, leading to 1)

What if he's a compulsive single day shot scum who had to shoot today? Really fills in the blanks regarding his bringing up the shot before he takes it (he wants to be townread), his super defensive responses to any pressure, and his refusal to take another day shot tomorrow (hint: he can't.)

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #1018 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:02 am

Also, scum!Pisskop explains why he'd want to shoot someone who he can't even begin to formulate a case for, and when he tries to come up with reasons they're inconsistent ("thinks i'm slowing down town VS slight scumread.)

If Pisskop didn't have that shot, he'd have been lynched already. Why is he getting a free pass?

pisskop · Post Post #1019 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:04 am

Would I?

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #1020 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:06 am

It's funny that you can only defend whether or not you're going to be lynched, as opposed to whether or not you're scum.

Pretty well known scumtell but hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

pisskop · Post Post #1021 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:08 am

You're killing me, and really, really fucking town over.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #1022 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:11 am

As soon as you said your "FOS: RC" that you had no grounds to back up you forfeited your right, even if you're town (which you're not), to complain that I'm fucking town over.

pisskop · Post Post #1023 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:14 am

THERE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ANTI TOWN VIGS IN A NORMAL BALANCED GAME!!! ARE YOU REALLY PUSHING AN OMGUS THIS FAR?

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #1024 (ISO) » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:15 am

Why does Town!Vig claim a FOS on someone that they obviously have no grounds, not even gut, to scumread?
Why does Town!Vig claim D1 before they shoot a super low hanging fruit, as if they're worried about being scumread
Why does Town!Vig refuse to save a shot for a day, even though assuming it was town you'd be looking at a ridiculously strong scumteam and a high chance of the shot being obstructed?
Why is Town!Vig so goddamn paranoid that he flipped shit when all I said was that I would be generally OK lynching you, even though there was no other support for the wagon?

Scum!Vig needs to shoot people who FoS them to keep their position secure.
Scum!Vig wants to grab towncred, and may even have been compulsive and thus would have wanted it to seem as natural as possible so he could claim something that he wasn't.
Scum!Vig doesn't have a second shot, so he needs to create false justifications for why he's going to shoot at night instead.
Scum!Vig is worried about being lynched.

Scum!Pisskop just makes a ton more sense than Town!Pisskop, so don't blame me for it.