New York 180 (Endgame)

[Kitz]

So if you're prepared to find a wagon that won't exist on either myself or TSO then SHIT THAT SUCKS.
I'm not going to be a part of it anymore.

I don't think you're scummy.

And well, you have made a lot of good arguments and other players have called on him including me, so...
I'd support, if it wasn't for the ambigious wake replacement also voting him.

[Kitz]

if it wasn't for the ambigious wake replacement also voting him.

Elaborating.

VOTE: tso

didn't finish reading

but i like this right now. a lot.

i have no more feelings

until i get another flip which will hopefully be my faq2 flip

which will in turn hopefully be a scumflip

that supertownifies me.

also i've been toying with the idea of tso!scum.

his treatment of the faq2 wagon and handling post-jump onto it kind of pings.

This guy.
He haven't read fully, positive of a scum FA, then jumps on TSO.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: tso

didn't finish reading but i like this right now. a lot.

Why?

[Cheetory6]

Dragon why does TSO feel town to you.
Articulate it.

[Cheetory6]

Oh and before TSO bitches to try and OMGUS a case against me, I did skim his ISO in Street Racers on Friday and there wasn't anywhere near as much bullshit as what he's doing this game.

[SilverWolf]

if it wasn't for the ambigious wake replacement also voting him.

Elaborating.

VOTE: tso

didn't finish reading

but i like this right now. a lot.

i have no more feelings

until i get another flip which will hopefully be my faq2 flip

which will in turn hopefully be a scumflip

that supertownifies me.

also i've been toying with the idea of tso!scum.

his treatment of the faq2 wagon and handling post-jump onto it kind of pings.

This guy.
He haven't read fully, positive of a scum FA, then jumps on TSO.

You read my mind.

[Cheetory6]

ugh.

[Cheetory6]

Can people really not see it? q.q
Like seriously?
I've put so much into trying to convey how it feels really obvious to me and everyone is just ignoring it.
q.q

I get so much fucking bitching rights if you guys let this go and it turns out I'm right.

[dragonspawn]

Dragon why does TSO feel town to you.
Articulate it.

because his posts feel genuinely annoyed with the towns bad play. Scum wouldn't be genuine in the least.

and because I never liked the way the tso wagon sprung up.

I've seen little to change my mind on it.

I'm not planning on voting for someone unless I feel they are scum. If you guys don't like it. Lynch me.

[Cheetory6]

Skim his ISO in NY178 and tell me that him being annoyed is a good reason to townread him.

What wagon on TSO?
When has there ever been a wagon on him?

[Cheetory6]

His town game can be annoyed but it isn't dramatically annoyed like this. This was showboating.

He's not actually trying to sort people in the game or be critical. His entire reaction to me screams self-preservation and slandering for the purposes of derailing momentum on him.

His flipflop on ABR is sketchy at fucking best no matter how hard he tries to move the goalposts on my argument there.
I don't know why he flipflopped, but he did and it was bullshit.
His reasoning adjusted like 3 times from "oh this is like 9 reasons why it was a good reason to vote ABR" to "I don't care" to "I don't remember".

[T S O]

That's cute.

[T S O]

My point is that if I was so scared of ABR-tracker then I would have gone for him when he claimed d1 as scum, no?

Can you also explain why I would want ABR dead when, if I was scum, I had him wrapped around my little finger to the point I was almost certain not to be tracked?

My point is that if I was so scared of ABR-tracker then I would have gone for him when he claimed d1 as scum, no?

There was also a copclaim? There were also more people in the game at that point?

Can you also explain why I would want ABR dead when, if I was scum, I had him wrapped around my little finger to the point I was almost certain not to be tracked?

Maybe to protect other scummates? You might have a point here, but that still doesn't explain why your read on him just randomly switched for no reason.

Can you also explain why I would want ABR dead when, if I was scum, I had him wrapped around my little finger to the point I was almost certain not to be tracked?

Maybe to protect other scummates? You might have a point here, but that still doesn't explain why your read on him just randomly switched for no reason.

Then I would have influenced him to do that, given that I was one of his top 2 townreads.

Okay, look, I'm not going to be able to realistically argue on a level this semantic. The core issue here is that you're being really sketchy with answering something that should be really easy to answer. If I'm misunderstanding something it shouldn't take 10-20 posts for you to clarify said misunderstanding.

It's not really semantics, though.

Your argument is that I was scared of ABR-tracker and so voted him.
My response, as above, is that this doesn't make sense given the gamestate.

The obvious conclusion here is that I was not actually scared of ABR-tracker.

Are you going to change your argument in response to this? Because continuing on your current train of logic doesn't seem to make sense anymore.

As far as I'm concerned I won this argument a while back, but if you feel I didn't, you get one post to show it.

[Cheetory6]

Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
If people don't see what you're doing there I don't know what to say.

I'm done.

[Cheetory6]

The core of my case is the CHANGE ITSELF AND NOT THE FACT THAT I CAN'T EXPLAIN WHY YOU WOULD CHANGE.

His flipflop on ABR is sketchy at fucking best no matter how hard he tries to move the goalposts on my argument there.

If people can't see that you're moving the goalposts of this argument every fucking time to try and make it look like you 'won an argument' when really you only one a largely unimportant aspect of the larger argument then I want to lose at this point.

[goodmorning]

Dragon why does TSO feel town to you.
Articulate it.

because his posts feel genuinely annoyed with the towns bad play. Scum wouldn't be genuine in the least.

Seriously? There's nothing fun about winning a game because the Town imploded.

[T S O]

As well as that, he's also read NY 178, and apparently sees parallels. We're never told what these parallels are. We're never told if he's seen my towngame (I doubt he meta'd it).

Lol. This is why you're full of shit. Here are the parallels I saw:

(being able to get angry at things, getting into big fights with people he perceives as being unreasonable)

If you actually gave a fuck about how I was perceiving you, you would have given me a towngame to look at or answering any of my questions, but instead you just kind of shrugged me off and said "do it yourself".

Isn't your case that I'm extremely concerned with how people perceive me, like you? If this is true, how does scum-TSO have any motivation to -not- give you a towngame? It would certainly have helped with your perception of me. Town-TSO certainly has motivation to do it - it's called "stop being a lazy shit and go look for one."

Cheetory opens the day with a big-ass case on me, which is basically saying I immediately wanted ABR dead when he claimed Tracker d3.
I respond by explaining why that makes no sense.
He says that I am also discrediting anyone attacking me.
I go on to then explain how the crux of his case, quite literally, makes no sense.
Cheetory ...dismisses me addressing the core of his case being wrong as semantics.
I call bullshit on that. - in essence, winning the argument.

Oh my fucking god this is hard misrep.
The core of my case is the CHANGE ITSELF AND NOT THE FACT THAT I CAN'T EXPLAIN WHY YOU WOULD CHANGE. God this is so fucking bullshit because I know you're framing this in a way to make it look like I have no case when I do.

It's not that you simply can't explain it - I've shown that, as scum, I had no reason to do it, as ABR alive only benefited me. Your case falls to pieces right there because every single time you fail to explain this, and you attempt to paper over those cracks by yelling loudly that I'm scum, and you're willing to die for the cause to prove this.

If I can prove I had motivation not to do it, and you can't prove I did, who exactly do you expect to believe you?

He's tried a bunch of scummy ways to get me off his case, first he tried saying "oh man you're being real town about this" -buddying, then when I didn't stop there "oh mannnn more people are just getting on my case because of NY 178 blah blah blah" - AtE and now he's OMGUSing because he knows that if he keeps me around I'm going to start becoming more convincing and more people have expressed sentiment that we should off him. It's so clear to me. I was unsure for a bit, but now I'm 100% sold.

The way you initially approached it was quite town, actually. Let me quote what I said then:

I do have to agree you are approaching this in a pretty town way -

if you were scum I would expect you to attempt to shout me down instead of being rational.

Let me quote excerpts from your recent post:

You just want to make people calling you out look bad/stupid/scummy. That's entirely your goal right now and it's so fucking transparent.

If you actually gave a fuck about how I was perceiving you

God this is so fucking bullshit

Fucking. Pleaseeee sheep this. If I'm wrong then lynch me. That's how fucking sure I am that he's full of shit right now.

Lynch me or him. I don't care at this point. Just lynch him tomorrow.

You're doing

exactly

what I predicted scum would do in this situation. You're trying to shout me down. Your facade of rationality has vanished.

[T S O]

As far as I'm concerned I am slam dunking your case into the trash where it belongs.

[T S O]

Dragon why does TSO feel town to you.
Articulate it.

because his posts feel genuinely annoyed with the towns bad play. Scum wouldn't be genuine in the least.

Seriously? There's nothing fun about winning a game because the Town imploded.

I couldn't care less - a win is a win. I can link Faith Plus One's scum QT, where mollie was wtf-lynched as town on day 5, and me and Sthar gloated in the QT, if you want.

[T S O]

Though, I guess I'd probably fake being annoyed? So I'm not sure there's a point to doing so.

My annoyance here, however, is completely real.

[Cheetory6]

It's not that you simply can't explain it - I've shown that, as scum, I had no reason to do it, as ABR alive only benefited me. Your case falls to pieces right there because every single time you fail to explain this, and you attempt to paper over those cracks by yelling loudly that I'm scum, and you're willing to die for the cause to prove this.

You haven't shown a reason why you would do it as town either which makes your point null. My overarching point is that the read itself makes no sense and the transition itself makes no sense to me and the reasoning you keep giving for the change keeps changing slightly. That you keep acting like this isn't a big deal still while throwing shit back at me for getting mad at you for ignoring it is really fucking frustrating and I'm getting tired of it.

I might be dumb. I might articulate things poorly. But I know when I'm right. I'm just bad at explaining it.

[Cheetory6]

And a mislynch is still a mislynch.
I don't understand why that isn't reasoning to want to push a lynch on ABR.

[Cheetory6]

Fuck this is so lame.
I hate that you're being really smart about this and I'm just being clumsy so nobody cares.

[T S O]

Okay, let's clarify here:

Your big-giant ass case and scumread on me is based mainly on my ABR stance d3. Leaving aside the fact that ABR had previously claimed Tracker and I hadn't gone after him that time, which

also

invalidates your case:

You can't show any scum motivation for it.
I have shown my motivation as town for it, which basically was apathy and anger. I have also shown posts and stances backing this up. You've vaguely disputed the authenticity of these without doing... well, anything to show that.

Is it hard for you to understand why I am frustrated? You literally have zero interest in updating your stance. You say I didn't give a shit about you, but

I did.

I first showed you how your case was invalid. That's the threshold you're saying scum-TSO didn't cross. THEN, I went onto to actually talk with you as an equal about it. After pages of this, of me giving up my time pretty needlessly, you then went on to not analyse any of it, throw it out the window, and regress to step one.

And

I'm

the one being unfair.

[Cheetory6]

I think it's unfair in general that I feel like I'm right here and I just don't know how to combine the words to make it make sense.