In post 5951, hasdgfas wrote:Actually, Supplant Form on a Warden of the First Tree doesn't come in as a 3/3 Human Warrior. When you copy something, you copy the base card, not any effects that have been applied to it. If you copy a Grizzly Bears that has had Giant Growth cast on it, the copy comes in as a 2/2. So Supplant Form on the Warden will come in as a 1/1.
Similarly, when you become a copy of Soulflayer, you have the latter ability of "If a creature with X was exiled with Delve to play this creature, you get specific abilities". Soulflayer does not have, say "Flying" printed on it, so you can't copy the Flying if that Soulflayer has Flying from a creature being exiled via Delve.
On the Warden, the second ability sets the creature type and base power/toughness to 3/3. It's not an enchantment or counter that's being copied, it's had it's basic characteristics changed.
Similar with soulflayer, it doesn't "get" or "gain" the ability, it "has" the ability. So copying a soulflayer that "has" flying should give you a Flying Soulflayer.
the Delve part on the mandrills is a separate issue. I think since Delve cost is not tracked by creatures or purpose, it could lead to arguments/unresolvable disputes.
Looking again-
Card Text:
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for 1.)
If a creature card with flying was exiled with
Soulflayer's delve ability
, Soulflayer has flying. The same is true for first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, hexproof, indestructible, Lifelink, reach, trample, and vigilance.
Based on the bolded, the cards exiled by Hooting Madrill's Devle ability are not the same cards exiled by (new-Soulflayer-but-used-to-be-Mandrills) delve ability. If the copy spell changed Mandrills, then the new Soulflayer is not green, nor no longer an Ape, so how it was cast would not be relevant to the New Soulflayer (who is only a copy of the old Soulfayer)
I think.
Anyways, that's probably why I'm not a judge.
