New York 182 - Game Over

elusive · Post Post #1275 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:41 pm

ika, no I need to reread. I ignored some of the game bc of excessive drama and all the damn replaces. i'll reread tomorrow and iso scums and then give you something. there was a lot of sniping in the game that was blah.

OkaPoka · Post Post #1276 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:44 pm

In post 1275, elusive wrote:ika, no I need to reread. I ignored some of the game bc of excessive drama and all the damn replaces. i'll reread tomorrow and iso scums and then give you something. there was a lot of sniping in the game that was blah.

if you vote otolia/mnemoic no reread needed

Thor665 · Post Post #1277 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:45 pm

In post 1274, OkaPoka wrote:i don't see the antihero case.

but otolia is an ez lynch

Anti case is here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6691481

I agree that the Otolia lynch is an "ez" one.

In post 1233, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1209, elusive wrote:Thor, still got my eye on you. What have you done this game that is town side in some pro way?

I made the case you're blind sheeping while calling me scum?

In post 1223, elusive wrote:He made a terribly bad case against choof

I did?
Quote it.
Liar.

^^^
@Elusive.

OkaPoka · Post Post #1278 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:46 pm

In post 1173, Thor665 wrote:I don't understand the case on Otolia.
And Sakura forgot to buddy Anti in favor of buddying me, remember?

wow much strong case 10/10.

/s

TheFuzzylogic99 · Post Post #1279 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:50 pm

Can someone explain the case on Otalia .... sorry but I dont understand how he is being read as scum? Also I am pretty sure Elusive is town. Not that I have not been fooled by scum before but gut is telling me she is town. She feels pretty close to town elusive i played withg in WOM mafifia / theese flash wagons are giving me pause.

Vasoon - how do you plan on showing us your not a SK??? what evidence do you plan to present??
Oka- what makes you so sure Otelia is scum. Can you show evidence that he is connected to FF or Sakura

OkaPoka · Post Post #1280 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:51 pm

In post 993, Otolia wrote:
In post 988, Seohyun wrote:
In post 717, Otolia wrote:
Are these rhetorical questions ? Right now there isn't anything better to do than making sure the town is set on a decision regarding Varsoon's lies. Call me old-school but lying as town should be a basis for a policy lynch in any and all normal scenarii.

Also I was waiting for people to do something else than vote me and be done with it - like Seohyun above, just so we can get some productive work going but it seems it shall not be the case. I was trying to reason with Sakura Hana but she can't grasp the difference between explicit and implicit, so that's sad. House hasn't replied to my question here.

Not rhetorical questions, pls answer. Also, what's your idea of productive work? getting varsoon lynched? Everything else is unimportant?
Is there anyone else you have a read on besides varsoon? Share your opinions, I promise it be won't harmful in establishing good reads or your money back!

They were rhetorical questions. You can't possibly ask me directly if I'm scum. You may not like the way I play but I've been playing Mafia IRL for more than a decade. Do you really think that were I scum, I would admit to be ? Don't be ridiculous. I shall not answer any of your first questions aside from re-iterating that I have no emotional connections with Varsoon. His play is objectively bad and he should be treated as a liability.

1. Productive work is work that leads to the desired specific outcome. When you're fishing, you don't just grab the first rod you find and go to the river, no you prepare your rod to catch the specific fish you want and you organize yourself so that you can indeed catch it. Same with scumhunting, throwing a wide net and hoping to catch scum with it is fine, not moving on to specifics afterwards is the mark of poor town play. Note that this is what I flagged Flubbernugget doing.

2. Varsoon is a liability, he lied about his abilities before L-1, then got caught and admitted said lie. Now he is saying he can proves his alignment by tomorrow. I do believe there is a strong possibility he is town (and a PR at that), but I can't feel but intrigued as to why he decided to act before L-1. So far, he has not given town enough to trust him. If he is indeed town-aligned, he has fucked up immensely but still acts as if he were the sole person able to help town. This is incredibly arrogant and foolish for someone who succumbs to the first wagon in a Large game. I think lynching him is the safest play and it's the one I advocate. But consensus needs to be achieved regarding his actions. And at that point, I believe his death by lynch or Vig would be better than his death by NK. In the first case, we control and people are held accountable, in the second, we don't really know. What if he is killed by someone and we can't see his alignment or his previous abilities ? There is too much breadcrumb left by Varsoon for me to ignore and move on to another case. As such I shall remain on his wagon until people start acting rationally.

3. Right now, everyone is in the same gray area. I am leaning scum on House, Flames of Disaster and Flubbernugget while there is probably scum among the people not posting much.

In post 1015, Otolia wrote:
@House :
Varsoon has been very liberal with his words. What he says holds little value to me until he redeems himself. Still that's a start. But that's not enough, what prevents anyone from pulling the same shit and cruise off in the sunset ? If we are going to do this, then I want everyone voting or having vote on Varsoon to agree to lynch him tomorrow in the event he fails to deliver. No backsies, no discussion, just pure rational decision making. With 8 people it's enough to drive a wagon so big, it won't matter if scum is in it.

UNVOTE: Varsoon

The Covenant of Varsoon

Varsoon shall be voted D2 if he can't prove his town alignment by the following players
:

Sakura Hana

House

Otolia

Thor665

Formerfish

Flames of Disaster

Marquis

Antihero

If you are on this list, please confirm that you will act without ANY questions or conditions ask, or you shall be held accountable as well.

@droog
: Can you please write my name correctly ?

In post 1071, Otolia wrote:You know the only difference between you and SleepyKrew is that you're not insufferable.

In post 1067, Varsoon wrote:The amount of backing off when I said that I could be confirmed, the people asking for claim from me, the PR-read insistence, the LITERALLY WRITING A LIST TO SET ME UP FOR A QUICK LYNCH AFTER I GET BLOCKED TONIGHT, etc.

Shit's mad obvious.

Or it could be that you're lying (AGAIN) and are trying to see if you can pave a way to more lying. But it's easier to blame someone else than accept one's own shortcomings.

@notscience : Well that was fast. I'm wondering where you're coming from since we had a misunderstanding and you keep writing with this weird formatting as if you were illiterate. But fine, we'll get to that in due time.

In post 1070, Antihero wrote:y

flames, claim

WHAT ?! FUCK NO ! If he is voting himself, we can assume he is not a PR. That would be retarded. Thus no claiming. Either he unvotes himself and starts playing or he is lynched.
NO FUCKING CLAIMING !

In post 1077, The Bulge wrote:
Lynch!

Flames of Disaster has been lynched. He was a
Town Watcher
.

It is now Night 1. Please submit all Night Actions within (expired on 2015-03-19 19:10:00).

sample of his scum

OkaPoka · Post Post #1281 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:52 pm

especially the last 2 posts.

im thinking sk

elusive · Post Post #1282 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:56 pm

Thor, much of your conversation particularly with me revolves around choof.

Here it's straight from your ISO, I stopped at a point because I got bored but this is more then enough to work off. Oh and if you need me to bold all the times choof shows up let me know:

Spoiler:

In post 29, Thor665 wrote:Or...I guess you could avoid that wagon and keep doing that.

Why do you townread Varsoon? Or is it that you scumread Elusive, or scumread some people voting fro Varsoon (though then I would presume you'd vote them...?)

Your vote doesn't seem to make much sense.
Clarify?

@Sakura - good posting. Let's just random speed lynch Varsooon and see what happens.

In post 47, Thor665 wrote:
In post 39, choof wrote:
In post 35, Antihero wrote:do you love me now, sakura?

6 is a good number, why would you ruin it
why are you doing this
why did you let it habben
ids habbending
y dozen u stob dis

Varsoon is at L-3, aren't you going to tell me why you townread him yet?

In post 346, Thor665 wrote:
In post 334, elusive wrote:So based on mod comments varsoon must be fake claiming? Therefor either scummy or scummy? Always weirded out when things seem.to.easy.

I'll remember that after any cop claims?
Weird.
Also, why aren't you weighing in on the back and forth between Copper and I as regards the playstyle of your bud as scum?

In post 334, elusive wrote:Thor, why would a player choose to jump on a flash wagon? Does not that signify sheep mentality and more suspicious are those that jump on such wagons.

There are many reasons someone may choose not to hop on a flashwagon - that is why I asked him for his reasons. I actually do not find either sheep or lone wolves particularly inherently scummy until alignment flips start happening, and care more about forcing people to make such stands so I can read the attitudes later.
Where I'm lost is why you're asking me "why would you want to know his reasons?"
That question literally sounds like it is based on the concept that *not* understanding motivation is a core component of scumhunting. Like...you're asking me *my* reasons, why then is it unusual to you that I'd ask him for his reasons?
Where is this line of questioning going?
Seriously?

In post 335, Varsoon wrote:Yeah, okay, fine,
I'm not hated.

I lied about it.

I panicked when I was being run up for lynch and wanted to do something that would maybe ensure that I'd get to live at least until close-to-lylo, so it was the first negative utility thing I thought of.
Ya caught me.
I'm not scum, though. I'm just a Smurfing idiot.

[snip]

Now that
that
embarrassment is out of the way, I want you guys to be really real with me;
you gonna lynch my ass now that I've come clean?
you gonna vote for me now that I've straight up told you the truth?
we gonna have another goddamn repeat of HipHop Mafia or Advance Wars, here?

Yes, I am going to vote you now that you've told the "truth".
For starters, I'd like to force a claim from you.
As secondary I do think you still look scummy.
As tertiary....yeah, weird reaction from you - it deserves some suspicion and probably your death.
I'm unfamiliar with your meta references - feel free to describe your habit of lying under pressure as town to me though, I am willing to listen.
Also, do you still hold the same town/scum opinions of those on your wagon? I remember you calling Anti scummy...apparently for *correctly* figuring out you were a liar...why did you do that?

In post 336, copper223 wrote:You are ignoring one part of the argument, that I don't think he is the kind to mirror himself.

How do you divine this conclusion?

In post 336, copper223 wrote:Why did you select one part of the answer to criticize? Are you impying the read is made up?

Yes, i am pretty sure that is what I'm implying which is why I'm asking you to defend the methods you used to create the answer.
Why...is that a problem for some reason?

In post 359, Thor665 wrote:
In post 263, copper223 wrote:@Gorkinton
No empty threat mate, the way you are approaching the game with those cookie cutter scumreads, you are scum because you post a smile, clearly buddying up, you are scum because you answered the question, clearly overexplaining, you are scum because you scumread me back and I am an easy lynch because I was being mean, clearly scum looking for an easy lynch, without any kind of analysis or thought about what the actual content of the posts is and what other different (and I think well explained) motivations I had is useless and dangerous town to leave around or scum looking for superficially scummy BS, either way you are not going to help me win.

@Gork

Cooper sucks. Sure.
You suck worse for the misrep - I'm on his side on that point.

In post 366, Thor665 wrote:
In post 362, elusive wrote:Thor, who is my bud?

Choof.

In post 367, Thor665 wrote:
In post 271, elusive wrote:PS. Copper is town because he looked up choof's one complete game on here and saw that he was town and accurately described his meta. So copper reads town to me unless Many Extreme Things.

I mean, and you say this - so I thought you might have an opinion on Copper's take on how scum Choof would play.
It's sort of a discussion, y'know?

In post 496, Thor665 wrote:
In post 430, elusive wrote:I think that if Copper assumed that choof was a newbie with only one game he might make the conclusion that it would be difficult for him to change his meta drastically.

Well, Copper is now going with 'wild assumption' as his reason for said presumption. So I suppose you are theory right on that.
That said - you seemed to indicate awareness of Choof's playstyle - have you seen his scumgame? If so, do you agree with Copper's take on it?

In post 430, elusive wrote:"Heavyweights" - anyone not a newbie. Like anyone who flashwagoned Varsoon before he fake claimed a really stupid fake claim lol.

Heavyweights like Boonskies, Sakura, SilverWolf, and pisskop then?
Or Copper...who you seem to be aware that I'm digging at?
Heavyweights like that?
I think Anti is the only one on there relatively close to me in length of term here.
Does this call make sense to you? It doesn't make sense to me.

Hint: there's a reason why so many players made comments about me and my playstyle. As far as longevity and rep on site, I am probably heavier than a large percentage of the players in this game. Basically by definition I will be attacking players considered 'weaker' than me and it would actually be strange of me to try to avoid doing so and deleterious to the effectiveness of my town game.

In post 430, elusive wrote:I do not see why you seem focused on Choof and then by correlation Copper.

I don't think I am focused on Choof - I had one interaction with him, and then he replaced out before I had made, like, my fourth post of the game, am I missing something there?
I agree I am focused on Copper because I think his read about Choof reads as fake - but that's a long ways from being focused on Choof. Frankly, the only reason I'm still discussing the slot is because Copper is dodgy and you keep asking me about my thoughts as regards Choof.
Want to prove me wrong here?
You sound like you're reading a different game than I am playing. Why is that?

In post 430, elusive wrote:What do I now though, I only have one completed game on me.

Aw, snap, sorry, it's scummy of me to question you then.

In post 432, copper223 wrote:
In post 428, Thor665 wrote:Theoretically you spotted a call to make, and applied some sort of judgement to it - describe that process.

The process is the same for every read I make, I try to profile a player based on what he is showing, does he play to win or to have fun, is he calculating or impulsive, does he get lynched often, how good is his knowledge of theory... and then I decide if the mindset he is showing is more likely to be his town mindset or his scum mindset.

And you decided it based on the idea that he wouldn't play like his town mindset, correct?
What led to that conclusion?
Is it just "aggressiveness"? Was that it? You mentioned the aggressiveness earlier.

In post 434, Formerfish wrote:What should I know going in?

There was a flash wagon on Varsoon.
He claimed Hated.
Anti lead the charge in calling the claim bull-hooey.
Varsoon called him scum for it and voted him.
Varsoon then clarified that the claim *was* bull-hooey and he had lied.
After having it pointed out, he moved his vote off Anti and claimed him as a town read.
I called that scummy.
People wandered around and screamed at each other.

In post 458, Marquis wrote:also varsoon is still

um

:/

"not being lynched."
Yes, I noticed.
Why don't you vote him - it would be good.

In post 485, House wrote:
In post 290, pisskop wrote:Doublevoter is verifiable, for one.
Hated/loved is meh. I really doubt he is actually hated

His claim is absolutely confirmable. Run him up to L-1.

I don't buy the b/s about how he magically "loses" the modifier in LyLo.

I agree.
You should vote him.

So maybe instead of calling me a liar, get your facts straight cupcake.

TheFuzzylogic99 · Post Post #1283 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:19 pm

I am thinking Gork is town. He legitimately seemed to PO Silver. I dont think that his and Silvers interactions seem faked. Theres always a possibility we are dealing with a two scum team game but i am not going to play outthink the mod.

Oka- Maybe i am just dense but I still dont see a solid case on Otelia. Also why do you think Vasoon is a SK instead of a Vig. Both seem plausible in a big game like this

TheFuzzylogic99 · Post Post #1284 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:36 pm

ok i take back my last posts,,,,, unless there is another way to account for the FF kill I think that there is a second scum team.

ika · Post Post #1285 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:41 pm

elusive, when you are not so grouchy and in a better mood do you mind doing rainbows.

i also need some music as well, got any ideas?

ill prob go iso hunting in a bit for assocative

Seohyun · Post Post #1286 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:14 pm

In post 1252, Antihero wrote:i think elusive or seo are a lot more promising than otolia

elusive prob town
i guess that just leaves me

In post 1279, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Can someone explain the case on Otalia .... sorry but I dont understand how he is being read as scum?

his love for varsoon and lying
At least, that's why I was trying to probe at him before

hey mnemonicdevice, are you good at acting town

ZZZX · Post Post #1287 (ISO) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:34 pm

Guys i dont get that hammer...

but anyway I have read ~36 pages and will finish them today. please no hammers suddenly again..

Flubbernugget · Post Post #1288 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:43 am

If you don't see the otalia case tell me who his scumreads are

pisskop · Post Post #1289 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:54 am

In post 1091, pisskop wrote:
In post 623, Sakura Hana wrote:Flubber, Otolia, elusive are all good candidates for scum too.
I'm less certain on Flubber now that he's actually POSTING CONTENT, tho i called him out on that earlier.
Otolia is still doing nothing regardless and just wants to see Varsoon dead no matter what.
elusive is... odd, probably my weakest scumread of the 3 at this point.

htmm

pisskop · Post Post #1290 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:56 am

In post 1265, elusive wrote:Who is you three? On what basis do you make this argument? How does your statement fit with the fact of this game and ISOs of two scum flips?

In post 1289, pisskop wrote:
In post 1091, pisskop wrote:
In post 623, Sakura Hana wrote:Flubber, Otolia, elusive are all good candidates for scum too.
I'm less certain on Flubber now that he's actually POSTING CONTENT, tho i called him out on that earlier.
Otolia is still doing nothing regardless and just wants to see Varsoon dead no matter what.
elusive is... odd, probably my weakest scumread of the 3 at this point.

htmm

Its like you dont read \o/

But nonetheless. IS my vote causing you so much angst?

elusive · Post Post #1291 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:02 am

It's not your vote, I think. I'm not a dog person.

LOL tho sheeping a scum. Wow.

pisskop · Post Post #1292 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:04 am

But I like you. You have that certain quality that makes me happy you're in a large game with me. Not a mini though.

unvote

Where is flubber anyway?

Gorkington · Post Post #1293 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:49 am

I just remembered that FF replaced SilverWolf and now I'm really annoyed that I let someone guilt trip me that hard who may have just been trying to get townreads on replace-out. -.-

Gorkington · Post Post #1294 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:56 am

mmnemeonefincic's first post doesn't make me feel better about him.
Pisskop.
Tell me your thoughts and your feelings right now. Why did you switch from Otolia wagon?

Gorkington · Post Post #1295 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:57 am

Also why is Thor not a bad lynch choice?

pisskop · Post Post #1296 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:58 am

I feel like you arent addressing your claim that I was fake, and I think you aren't enough of a scumread to push the issue. :v

Gorkington · Post Post #1297 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:02 am

I don't think I need to address it.
I think you should know why too.
[hint it's not because I'm avoiding the issue because I'm scum]

droog · Post Post #1298 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:05 am

there are probly two scum teams
i dont see otolla as scum on the mafia faction
really i dont see him as too scummy at all
hes just annoying when he calls out bullshit

didnt he do something like that with sakura
i dont see that happening between scummates

Gorkington · Post Post #1299 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:06 am

Who is scum then droog?