New York 182 - Game Over

[pisskop]

Youre misunderstanding what happened.

Im not trying to justify not doing work by saying I have a good instinct. Ive already explained my cases, and ssm bolstering them with my claim.

Youre claiming I havent explained myself; a reachy claim to begin with.

[The Bulge]

Votecount 2.4

notscience (1) -

mnemonicdevice

Antihero (4) -

Thor665, ika, elusive, Gorkington

Boonskiies (0) -

TheFuzzylogic99 (0) -

copper223 (1) -

droog

elusive (0) -

Flubbernugget (0) -

Gorkington (0) -

ika (0) -

droog (0) -

Marquis (0) -

OkaPoka (0) -

mnemonicdevice (6) -

OkaPoka, Flubbernugget, notscience, copper223, Seohyun, Marquis

pisskop (0) -

Seohyun (2) -

Antihero, pisskop

Thor665 (1) -

ZZZX

Varsoon (0) -

ZZZX (0) -

Not Voting -

Boonskiies, Varsoon, TheFuzzylogic99

With 18 alive, it's 10 to lynch.

Deadline in (expired on 2015-04-02 19:15:00) (April 2^nd).

[Varsoon]

Hey all,
I still exist.

I'm still on V/LA until the 30th, but now I have -some- access.

Glossed over the last ten pages.
Mnemonic seems better than Otoliolio

[ika]

time to respond to crap and then get to sleep

[ika]

So you agree with the concept that me talking about someone, when I am asked about someone, can be scummy?

Or, at least, in her head, that it could be scummy?

Depends on how you approach it overall. from elusives POV she takes it as scummy. others can take it as null. others cna take it as town. this is what im talkign about that this is jsut a poitnless deciable

i may have been exacgarting on how massive it is but maybe this can help:

her playstlye has almost no real "logic" to it and that she goes a lot on guts and what jsut feels right to her. She has had games where she can just call out a scum team out of no reason other then "they feel scummy". much like me where i just dont give craps about cases (really you can do bullet points if you need a case) but she also has the weakness of jsut going tunnle mode on people who suspect her and get as i would say "destracted by the shiny object" the thing with her is that she very reactionary and that any poke in her direction will cause an ooutburst untill you know how to porperly adress it that doesnt come out as threatening

BUT ---!

My gut is a good gut. Its not 100% accurate, but its led my team to astounding victories.

This rings my scum radar.

You're the guy complaining about my arguments being "semantic based" while also refusing to have a conversation describing your thoughts because I used "he" instead of "she" and wish to present it as some sort of moral high ground in the game of Mafia?

Seriously?

This is the

exact

point that I made, but elusive made it such a big deal.
Also why @ika are you defending elusive so much?

Cus i know her and that shes very emotion based and is quick to react.

on the gender thing: can we jsut agree that its not a huge deal and jsut call her she out of respect. if she continues i will get onto her peronally and tell her to stop. she may not listen to you guys about petty thign but she will listent o me about it.

thats they dynamic we also share is that if you guys attack/talk her she going to hole up at everoyne. if i talk to her i can most likly get her to calm downa bit and work out her thoughts better

[TheFuzzylogic99]

I think that Elusive might think she is being disrespected. Last game I was in Pirate Molly intentiaonally insulted ABR . I dont think its intentional here however I think that she asked to be called the right gender and we should respect tbat, As Ika said cant we just call Elusive by her right gender and move on. We do have scum to catch.

Mod can you prod Anti please.

More later after I have some more time to think

[ika]

I think that Elusive might think she is being disrespected.

^that, just call her proper and if she brings it up just quote it for me if i miss it and i will correct her myself. she will honestly be more inclined to listen to me then others.

on game though: fuzzy are you scum? cus i have like seen nothing from your psot that resemble anythign town right now

[mnemonicdevice]

Youre misunderstanding what happened.

Im not trying to justify not doing work by saying I have a good instinct. Ive already explained my cases, and ssm bolstering them with my claim.

Youre claiming I havent explained myself; a reachy claim to begin with.

I do agree that you have explained yourself, I simply found it weird that you pointed out how you are good at finding scum, its comparable in my eyes to using the defense "but I'm no good at playing town" when at L-1. It might be true, but it is not a very good defense.

@Elusive: Sorry if I unintentionally offended you.

[Flubbernugget]

Hey all,
I still exist.

I'm still on V/LA until the 30th, but now I have -some- access.

Glossed over the last ten pages.
Mnemonic seems better than Otoliolio

Gloss a little slower next time

also I could entertain the idea of fuzzy being scum

[Boonskiies]

LOL. I seriously have to find someway to get myself interested in this game. I'm going to catch up probably sometime around wednesday/thursday night.

[elusive]

hey ika, i'm not a crazy jelly bean people calling me it or he doesn't offend me or cause me to get all twisty. I'm not easily offended by name calling, sometimes it can be fun.

MY concern with memnomic was that if he actually read the content of my posts he should have a sense of my gender due to some of the Loud and Obvious Content so his putting me as scum without reading my posts is a Red Flag. How can you scum read someone without looking at them carefully in ISO. So I wonder about that slot and need to iso the pre-replace.

vlaish

[ZZZX]

And I hope you got what I mean by what i just said

Thor isn't playing up to par
And you find that scummy, correct?
have you played with scum thor?

Note from reading Thor posts: I find his questions unlike what his playstyle as town would be from my personal experiance... they feel too lacking tbh

VOTE: Thor for above thing and to make my vote useful i guess?

How is town thor like

and I wana add this post slightly ringed my scumdar. No idea why tbh

gut^TM

not exactly but you can say its like that
and i think i did twice at least
gut is how i do this

[ZZZX]

but I have never seen thor not hunting with extreme logical edge as town.

What are your thoughts on my two primary cases currently?

I can see some logic but I am not that convinced tbh. Usually your cases will feel more clear/direct I guess?

[ZZZX]

I need to read mnen closely cus I dont feel any of the posts pinged my scumdar

[pisskop]

@Elusive

As with all good things Id like examples. Because I didnt see any outspoken examples. Youre defense is literaly that he didnt gendrcast you; and thats a subject too political for me to want to bring up here.

What content from you makes us

know

you are a female? I know the gendertag, but lets assume he really didnt look farther than your avatar because he was engrossed in your posts.

[pisskop]

Let pisskop answer first and then I'll vaguely elaborate on what I expect from townPisskop so that I can keep up this illusion of being a mysterious alt.

I think I know you.

[Gorkington]

shet.

[Gorkington]

*starts melting*

[Gorkington]

Like, let's say that she meant "case" *exactly* as stated. That "case" involves me talking about Choof, and that it was terrible.
She literally cited examples of this as me answering questions she asked me about Choof.
Meaning that, in her mind, it was scummy that I talked about Choof when asked (by her) about Choof.

I have a real hard time swallowing that one in the context of a 'she a little silly in her definitions' defense.
Thoughts?

He made a terribly bad case against choof and then went into minutiae with me over it which some people pointed out was his scum meta. Now he needs to start making logical, strong cases. That is what town does

By case I meant that most of your discussion revolved around choof or copper because of his comments on choof. So it seemed like you were using choof as some sort of way to figure out scum or something whether in me or copper.

Like, the two elusive quotes clearly look like a lie when juxtaposed against each other. So I'm there with you on that it's probable that elusive is scum and had a massive fuck up here. I'm not convinced though, that this isn't "I need to justify my actions afterwards and twisting the facts is okay if it protects me" townElusivemode because whether you like it or not, that feels pretty plausible to me. In the off chance that her definitions are somehow just hilariously strange, I don't necessarily find it smoking gun either, given that the point you're making about her asking you questions about choof seems a bit like a mistake on her end. Is it not probable that in her mind she thought you were talking a lot about choof while forgetting that she'd asked you questions about choof? I imagine she probably skimmed your ISO for quotes on choof/copper when doing so, right?

Point being, I think elusive is scummy, but I also don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it look and I have a built-in hesitance to buying any borderline semantic-based Thor argument. So.. yeah. I'd like to see more from her in general before pushing a wagon there. In any case, I think you'll struggle selling the case you've built in an accessible way in general anyways, so you probably will want more substance from her before even trying to push a wagon there in the first place.

I'd also like to sink into your town meta at some point when I have some more time so I can get a better idea of whether I can trust what you're spittin' here, yafeel?

though I can accept one insane person - two strikes me as likely containing scum, yeah?

Lol. No. You even trying to imply that ridiculous shit=scum worries me. Don't do that shiet.

I need to meta too many people and I don't have enough time. *cries*

[Antihero]

hey marquis

you think my vote sucks

i think yours does too

where can we meet in the middle?

[Flubbernugget]

If you're unwilling to hop on the otalia wagon you guys could see where a fuzzy wagon goes

[Thor665]

her playstlye has almost no real "logic" to it and that she goes a lot on guts and what jsut feels right to her. She has had games where she can just call out a scum team out of no reason other then "they feel scummy". much like me where i just dont give craps about cases (really you can do bullet points if you need a case) but she also has the weakness of jsut going tunnle mode on people who suspect her and get as i would say "destracted by the shiny object" the thing with her is that she very reactionary and that any poke in her direction will cause an ooutburst untill you know how to porperly adress it that doesnt come out as threatening

So...basically you are now agreeing with me that her commentary looks like a lie, but that it's forgivable because her use of logic within the game is...thin and more based on gut, so though it looks like a lie it is within her town meta to do exactly that.

Well...okay.

Why did you initially say there was no lie if you are aware that she shoots from the hip somewhat randomly as town?

on the gender thing: can we jsut agree that its not a huge deal and jsut call her she out of respect. if she continues i will get onto her peronally and tell her to stop. she may not listen to you guys about petty thign but she will listent o me about it.

Doesn't sound like she's particularly useful to town if we need a diplomat/negotiator to keep her useful - no?

hey ika, i'm not a crazy jelly bean people calling me it or he doesn't offend me or cause me to get all twisty. I'm not easily offended by name calling, sometimes it can be fun.

Hey, Elusive, you kind of ducked two questions from me. I'll repeat them (since last time I trusted someone here to have a brain I was sadly let down, so why take the risk twice. For the record, this is not an insult...well, actually, yes, it's an insult, albeit at Fuzzy, not at you. I am slightly miffed at you for ducking questions, but am willing to believe you simply didn't read them and that's why you didn't answer them. That said, if you did read them and intentionally didn't answer them - say so, that will save me some time later. I do love hearing myself speak, but I don't like wasting time when I'm being intentionally ducked.)
But here are my questions;

1. Is Ika allowed to discuss your meta? (I know he's actually already doing so, but I'd just like to give him full permission as he appears to think that discussing your meta would bug you for some reason) As part and parcel of this is - is he allowed to provide some links? If you would rather he not do this - could you explain why.

Second question.

2. I asked you for your opinion of Ika's defense of you. He sprang forward and acted as a blocker between you and me, and I'd like to know your thoughts on that, especially since he started with the line of 'Elusive is not lying' and has adjusted now to 'well, it might look like she is, but you can't read her like that due to logic'. Also, frankly, the way you went silent when he started defending you was...questionable to me, so I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

but I have never seen thor not hunting with extreme logical edge as town.

What are your thoughts on my two primary cases currently?

I can see some logic but I am not that convinced tbh. Usually your cases will feel more clear/direct I guess?

Okay.

What feels indirect about the cases? One is "she's a liar - here's why" and the other is "he's Sakura's buddy, here's why" and I sort of felt they were both very direct.
What is indirect about them?

Hint: starting to suggest you are making stuff up at this point...so make this answer look good.

Like, the two elusive quotes clearly look like a lie when juxtaposed against each other. So I'm there with you on that it's probable that elusive is scum and had a massive Smurf up here. I'm not convinced though, that this isn't "I need to justify my actions afterwards and twisting the facts is okay if it protects me" townElusivemode because whether you like it or not, that feels pretty plausible to me. In the off chance that her definitions are somehow just hilariously strange

That's usually the point where you hop off the fence and offer your own thoughts though. You kind of hedge this debate the whole way through.

I don't necessarily find it smoking gun either, given that the point you're making about her asking you questions about choof seems a bit like a mistake on her end. Is it not probable that in her mind she thought you were talking a lot about choof while forgetting that she'd asked you questions about choof?

I see absolutely no reason to believe this - do you?

I imagine she probably skimmed your ISO for quotes on choof/copper when doing so, right?

She obviously did that - the question is whether it was supposed to be a smokescreen or she legit thought it justified her case. I lean towards smokescreen - I was asking you what you thought. The iso skim is, functionally, obvious fact.

I have a built-in hesitance to buying any borderline semantic-based Thor argument.

I am so annoyed by this defensive line.
The only "semantic" in there is what she thinks "Case" is defined as.
And even if we go by her definition (which I'm fine to do) her response appears scummy. So I don't think it actually matters what yu think she believes "case" meant, what matters is if you think she could be town in either instance.
I'll agree the case involves the definition of a word - I'll disagree that it is based on that definition rather than the actions and, fairly clear lies, that took place.

though I can accept one insane person - two strikes me as likely containing scum, yeah?

Lol. No. You even trying to imply that ridiculous shit=scum worries me. Don't do that Smurf.

Why not?

If you're unwilling to hop on the otalia wagon you guys could see where a fuzzy wagon goes

I would rather lynch you than Fuzzy or Mneumonic, really.
You are just an empty wagon pusher.

[Gorkington]

That's usually the point where you hop off the fence and offer your own thoughts though. You kind of hedge this debate the whole way through.

Point being, I think elusive is scummy

Yeah, totally hedging my read on her and not just explaining why I'm not hard scumreading her vs somewhat scumreading her. If I can see a potential town mindset behind something someone is doing, then I'm not going to scumread them as hard as someone doing something that I simply can't imagine town doing. I can imagine townElusive playing like this. Thus her scummy behavior isn't as clearly coming from a scumslot as you keep saying it is, at least from my POV.

Is it not probable that in her mind she thought you were talking a lot about choof while forgetting that she'd asked you questions about choof?

I see absolutely no reason to believe this - do you?

Yeah because bad play is never caused by bad play and is always just because scum, right? If she was skimming [which you've agreed with was the case]/seems like she isn't super committed into the game then why are you so damn sure that she didn't just make a mistake? I really don't get how you can't see how you find it so improbable that she might have just skimmed her quotes and forgot she asked you questions about choof.

So I don't think it actually matters what yu think she believes "case" meant, what matters is if you think she could be town in either instance.
I'll agree the case involves the definition of a word - I'll disagree that it is based on that definition rather than the actions and, fairly clear lies, that took place.

You think I shouldn't be hesitant when I find your thoughts on her to be a little too directed and strong for what she's actually done? If I feel like someone's case on someone could be opportunistic scum trying to push me in a shitty direction I'm going to be a little more wary.

Lol. No. You even trying to imply that ridiculous shit=scum worries me. Don't do that Smurf.

Why not?

Bad play is not inherently scummy. You've been playing on this site for longer than I have. I don't know how you can pretend that people can't be illogical/make huge fuck-ups and not be town.

[Gorkington]

Eh.
I think I might just be being overly paranoid about my hesitance of following you because of ~reasons~ that aren't actually all that important.
I do think you're being a little too strong about something that doesn't strike me as being all that convincingly scummy though.

[ZZZX]

.so make this answer look good.

I will rather truthfully give my thoughts as i think they are. you know I am that kind of player that will say his un-filtered thoughts even if they might seem scummy just because its his policy.