In post 198, Bookitty wrote:I did that. I didn't glean a lot from it, because it's pretty obviously one of the first games he played here. It's pretty jam-packed with newbie questions or questions intended to look newbie, which I agree is not the same situation as in this game.
Soren claims he has over 40 games completed. I don't think that's what he was going for there; I think he was just asking as much stuff as he could to look busy and not realizing nothing he was asking had any town motivation.
In post 198, Bookitty wrote:@Endless Possibilities: Do you think that Soren is typically pretty wishy-washy on his own opinions or generally easily led? Do you have experience of him as town in a completed game? I read this:
Mini 1650: Greatest Idea Mafia
and Soren seemed a lot more forceful in that as town. His questions were much more pointed toward alignment and less busy-seeming. I don't see much other meta, but if you have it, I'll read it.
mm, I looked through this and the first thing I noticed is that in that game, he wasn't following closely at the start of the game (he says this in 268). it's usually easier to step back and take a fully objective view of the game when you already have a body of work of content to go off of, as opposed to seeing everything unfold firsthand.
also in that game, his opening (and his play in general) hardly consisted of any questions, as opposed to him primarily commenting on stuff. it's possible he just took a different approach here, or is having an off game
there's also some other things that I think might be different but haven't looked into it yet: for example, it's possible a lot of people were acting obviously scummy/town in that game, compared to this game which is rather slow (with at least 3 people having practically no content at all). I suppose what I'm saying here is that I don't find a lack of strong scum reads scummy, given my 2nd strongest scum read is fucking Anti just for not doing anything at all besides one somewhat-off-looking push.
besides that, I don't have any experience with town Soren, but I think the differences from his ISO here to the ISO in his scum game are a lot greater than the differences from his ISOs here/this game. I usually don't agree with calling someone scum because of minor differences to their town game, in no small part because I used to (and still am, to some extent) be known for being extremely obvious town as town and I would have that pushed on me a lot whenever I did so much as one thing that was different from any of my town games. this is moreso my method of reading people so make of it what you will.
In post 198, Bookitty wrote:I didn't like this because Antihero hasn't actually posted much in this game. No one has explained their vote on him very well. His vote is on LucianRoy, whom Soren was voting earlier for "meta" reasons that apparently both of them now agree were not very strong. LucianRoy is clearly not immune to OMGUS since he is scumreading two people currently on his wagon and one who was; it seems a little out of place for him to resolutely resist the same OMGUS urge where Soren is concerned.
I'm still not particularly seeing why this is scummy, explicitly because Anti hasn't posted much. it makes sense to poke at a lurker in order to get them to do shit. there were better questions he could have asked, but I could easily enough see it coming from town.
LR had also declared a town read on me after I started pushing on him (although I never voted him) so I'm not sure what to make of the second point. either way, I don't really think it makes sense as a scum strategy to OMGUS every town player who pressures you, so I don't think it makes sense him not OMGUS'ing Soren would be indicative of Soren scum, either.
In post 198, Bookitty wrote:This was interesting because I was voting LucianRoy at the time. It's like Soren is only interested in asking questions among the people who were voting LucianRoy. Soren also says he just wanted to see what I would say -- again, not owning the suspicion that is pretty clear in the question imo.
It's not just the questions for me, though I watch for that more since Farside pointed out it is one of her scumhunting tools. (Yes, I shamelessly borrow from other players.) Soren hasn't had any strong views -- in fact, he sheeped me onto LucianRoy and then immediately backed off his own vote without unvoting.
IMO a lack of strong stances isn't particularly scummy. it's either indicative of scum who don't want to fake reads, or town who legitimately don't have any reads and don't see it fit to pretend like they have reads that they really don't. what I find scummy is when people act like they have strong stances, but then don't actually do anything to follow through with them (ex. Aris WK'ing a lot of people who are under pressure but not doing anything to explain why).
in Soren's case, I think it's plausible enough he just doesn't have any strong reads yet. he's either scum who made a push and then didn't feel like continuing with it, or he's town telling the truth about not having a strong read on you and backed off for exactly the reason he said - that he asked the question to see what you would say as opposed to feeling strongly you were scum. either way, I don't think it's inconsistent.
one thing that I noticed when I played with him as scum was that there were basically no stances *at all*, which is kind of similar. I suppose it's not too unreasonable he's stepped up his game as scum to some extent and is more capable of taking stances but is not yet comfortable faking the strong pushes he made in his town game. however, I still think there's more stuff that points to him being town.
