Open 591: C9++, The Lunatic Ayslum (Game Over: Town Win!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT - What is the difference between RM lurking and a person who is just prod-dodging the whole game? Are you trying to claim that you can accurately read him so well that you are willing to just let scum slip by D1 and want to play the odds of him being scum? Because to willingly say that you are willing to ignore a player to the point where you can trust your ability to read them so much that you need a full day less to do so seems a little extreme. There are only a few players ever that I would be willing to say I trust my ability to read post D1 enough to make that call.

Also I will re-ask for why Otiola is scum.

It has nothing to do with my ability to read Random and everything to do with how scummy other players are being. My goal is to lynch the people who I think are most likely to be scum, right now, that's Otolia, Reubus and Marcrell.

I have reread Otolia's ISO a few times now and I'm beginning to think my scum read was stronger than it should have been (I'm still scum-reading him but not as strongly). So, I'm going to do this now;

VOTE: Reubus

What is your reasoning behind PL'ing day 1 BBT?

When there aren't people who are screaming 'I'm scum!'.

I'm going to say that Randommidget should probably be lynched at some point before it gets lylo or something because then he's a giant liability. However, these things aren't often scum tells. Being barely off from flaking and completely useless isn't a scum tell, and so if you have any scum reads or something I'd suggest trying to vote them instead. If not, then the day can fall to this lynch, but it's really more of a getting it out of the way thing.

Obvious filler is obvious. There is no reason to say this at this point in the game.

I agree with the logic here, but from past games I have played with RM he does start picking up after day one. I'm going to just leave him be, he should be evident enough to read by day 3, if not even by late day 2.

Can you remind me why you're voting for Otolia please?

[DarkLightA]

I was leaning Otilia town but regarding the aggressive nature of his defence I need to rethink that now.

Fist of all I've read over the Otolia wagon again and I just don't buy it.

?

[Marcrell]

I'm going to say that Randommidget should probably be lynched at some point before it gets lylo or something because then he's a giant liability. However, these things aren't often scum tells. Being barely off from flaking and completely useless isn't a scum tell, and so if you have any scum reads or something I'd suggest trying to vote them instead. If not, then the day can fall to this lynch, but it's really more of a getting it out of the way thing.

Obvious filler is obvious. There is no reason to say this at this point in the game.

I'm giving my opinion on Randommidget. I don't scumread him, but he's a lynch candidate if we don't have any good scumreads. That's not filler. maybe not a giant post, but I'm not just spewing from my ass here.

@Marcell

you didn't bring Otolia to L-2, which to me means one of two things- A) You've got stronger scumreads. B) You don't want him lynched. Judging by your posts after your unvote, scenario A looks a lot less likely. Do you read him town? If so why?

Town? I wouldn't say that after I said I'd lean scum on him in the post. I'm not totally convinced on his lynch yet.

In fact I'm starting to feel a Blue lynch might be decent.

[DarkLightA]

Spoiler: RS post

Sorry guys was very busy this weekend, let's get back into it.

Fist of all I've read over the Otolia wagon again and I just don't buy it. There's nothing at the moment that makes me believe he will flip scum. The RM wagon is more viable than the Otolia wagon as I see it but both of the wagons don't seem reasonable enough for me to place a vote yet.

@RM

can you explain your play-style to us and why it works?

@mnemonicdevice

I agree with the logic here, but from past games I have played with RM he does start picking up after day one. I'm going to just leave him be, he should be evident enough to read by day 3, if not even by late day 2.

Considering this post:

They're not scummy posts coming from RM. It may be all null, but a policy lynch here really isn't going to do anything but give scum an easy wagon to push.

What part is null?

The part where a third of his posts are concerned about CKD and the whole policy lynch thing?
The sheep vote on collatz?
The vote on otolia for what is at best a vote for a null tell?

Even if we are going to go "oh well he always lurks so lets ignore him" those are still legitimate tells. Plus is he normally this non-game related? In almost a week he has made maybe three posts that can be called game related.

Out of curiosity... for those ignoring RM are you just essentially saying "well if he is scum I am willing to just give him a free pass?" Maybe I don't have enough experience around RM, but I don't really think he is a juggernaut as town starting D2 that would justify giving him a free pass. What if he is scum? We just let him have next to no interactions and are cool with it or something?

Would you still advocate not lynching RM?

And what are your thoughts on Otolia? You haven't moved your vote from RVS or justified leaving your vote there nor have you actually read anyone.

@RC

so who are your current scumreads?

I'm leaning town on RC, the analysis he's providing seems pretty sound to me, not much more I can elaborate

@Marcell

you didn't bring Otolia to L-2, which to me means one of two things- A) You've got stronger scumreads. B) You don't want him lynched. Judging by your posts after your unvote, scenario A looks a lot less likely. Do you read him town? If so why?


Town-reading LlamaFluff for his convincing ISO and his move to mass-claim in #204, both of which point towards him being town.

This is one of those posts that looks good on the surface, but says very little. A lot of questions, not many statements or arguments. Especially the addressing of Marcrell looks odd to me. I really don't understand what he's saying here... Marcrell quite clearly stated that he doesn't want an immediate lynch. He's afraid of a speedlynch and that's completely reasonable. Don't you think so?

[DarkLightA]

People who aren't voting right now, why ?

Those are just the latecomers+ Innocent child but your question is just as valid as ever, why haven't they got around to it? (minus IC that is)

It's stuff like this that makes me question Reubus. He's new to the game, but it seems like he's trying to appear knowledgable and all and ends up just coming with tons of empty statements.

[DarkLightA]

I'm going to say that Randommidget should probably be lynched at some point before it gets lylo or something because then he's a giant liability. However, these things aren't often scum tells.

I hate this so much.

[DarkLightA]

In fact I'm starting to feel a Blue lynch might be decent.

Why? You haven't said much about him.

[DarkLightA]

I have reread Otolia's ISO a few times now and I'm beginning to think my scum read was stronger than it should have been (I'm still scum-reading him but not as strongly).

This is good. I'm quite confident that BBT is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm giving my opinion on Randommidget. I don't scumread him, but he's a lynch candidate if we don't have any good scumreads. That's not filler. maybe not a giant post, but I'm not just spewing from my ass here.

The timing of it makes it filler. There is no need to be discussing PLs right now when there is plenty of scummy behaviour in this thread. Although, if you're scum, I'm guessing a PL is the best you can hope for right now.

In fact I'm starting to feel a Blue lynch might be decent.

Please do this. Please.

Marcrell, thoughts on Reubus?

[DarkLightA]

It confuses me that everyone seems okay with lynching Reubus.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you show me everyone being OK with lynching Reubus?

[DarkLightA]

From my perspective Reubus appears to be the compromise lynch candidate. Maybe I'm wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What I mean is, show me posts from everyone being OK with lynching Reubus.

[DarkLightA]

Am I wrong? I think Reubus would be the lynch leading to the least tears.

[curiouskarmadog]

back in town, last looked at this game at page 7...lets see what I missed. should update in 24 hours?

[Marcrell]

Have to be fucking kidding me, connection went out right when I submitted the post. Anyways.

In fact I'm starting to feel a Blue lynch might be decent.

Why? You haven't said much about him.

Some of the things he's said don't make sense to me. Maybe it's just me, but they give me a scummier vibe.

I'm giving my opinion on Randommidget. I don't scumread him, but he's a lynch candidate if we don't have any good scumreads. That's not filler. maybe not a giant post, but I'm not just spewing from my ass here.

The timing of it makes it filler. There is no need to be discussing PLs right now when there is plenty of scummy behaviour in this thread. Although, if you're scum, I'm guessing a PL is the best you can hope for right now.

In fact I'm starting to feel a Blue lynch might be decent.

Please do this. Please.

Marcrell, thoughts on Reubus?

From reading his ISO, I'm getting a town lean, though this post:

Spoiler: RS post

Sorry guys was very busy this weekend, let's get back into it.

Fist of all I've read over the Otolia wagon again and I just don't buy it. There's nothing at the moment that makes me believe he will flip scum. The RM wagon is more viable than the Otolia wagon as I see it but both of the wagons don't seem reasonable enough for me to place a vote yet.

@RM

can you explain your play-style to us and why it works?

@mnemonicdevice

I agree with the logic here, but from past games I have played with RM he does start picking up after day one. I'm going to just leave him be, he should be evident enough to read by day 3, if not even by late day 2.

Considering this post:

They're not scummy posts coming from RM. It may be all null, but a policy lynch here really isn't going to do anything but give scum an easy wagon to push.

What part is null?

The part where a third of his posts are concerned about CKD and the whole policy lynch thing?
The sheep vote on collatz?
The vote on otolia for what is at best a vote for a null tell?

Even if we are going to go "oh well he always lurks so lets ignore him" those are still legitimate tells. Plus is he normally this non-game related? In almost a week he has made maybe three posts that can be called game related.

Out of curiosity... for those ignoring RM are you just essentially saying "well if he is scum I am willing to just give him a free pass?" Maybe I don't have enough experience around RM, but I don't really think he is a juggernaut as town starting D2 that would justify giving him a free pass. What if he is scum? We just let him have next to no interactions and are cool with it or something?

Would you still advocate not lynching RM?

And what are your thoughts on Otolia? You haven't moved your vote from RVS or justified leaving your vote there nor have you actually read anyone.

@RC

so who are your current scumreads?

I'm leaning town on RC, the analysis he's providing seems pretty sound to me, not much more I can elaborate

@Marcell

you didn't bring Otolia to L-2, which to me means one of two things- A) You've got stronger scumreads. B) You don't want him lynched. Judging by your posts after your unvote, scenario A looks a lot less likely. Do you read him town? If so why?


Town-reading LlamaFluff for his convincing ISO and his move to mass-claim in #204, both of which point towards him being town.

This is one of those posts that looks good on the surface, but says very little. A lot of questions, not many statements or arguments. Especially the addressing of Marcrell looks odd to me. I really don't understand what he's saying here... Marcrell quite clearly stated that he doesn't want an immediate lynch. He's afraid of a speedlynch and that's completely reasonable. Don't you think so?

is right on the money for his problems. There's questions, but I can't find much behind them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Am I wrong? I think Reubus would be the lynch leading to the least tears.

If you can show me that everyone is OK with Reubus being lynched, then no, you're not.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Some of the things he's said don't make sense to me. Maybe it's just me, but they give me a scummier vibe.

I'm assuming you can provide examples of this?

So your overall read on Reubus is leaning town, correct?

[Lucky2u]

Am I wrong? I think Reubus would be the lynch leading to the least tears.

If you can show me that everyone is OK with Reubus being lynched, then no, you're not.

Why does it matter if his assessment that the town would compromise lynch RS is accurate or not? Multiple people have expressed concerns over RS, if you haven't noticed then you need to go back and read.

My question to you would be, is it scummy for him to have been assuming this publically?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not at all. I'm being pedantic.

It's not even close that everyone is OK with lynching Reubus.

A few people have expressed they would be OK with it. Nothing more than that. I mean, I don't even think he is the leading wagon.

[Otolia]

Spoiler: On randommidget and reactions

He looks very attentist, particularly in this post :

@redcoyote im always like this day 1. Flips are like coffee for me. I need them to get going.
So are we doing the tier thing?

But then mnemonicdevice is doing the same below and gets a pass ...

RM can you start doing something so you don't get lynched please.

I don't like BBT's attack here. Sure RM isn't participating a lot but his argument denotes a low level of involvement in the lynch. I'm a massive proponent of Policy Lynch but when I decided on a PL, I don't stop unless there is a town consensus. PL are strong because there is a cohesion around them. Menacing someone of a PL without trying to federate is either bad PL implementation or a scumtell.

And im concerned that you say there is at least one scum in RM and RS and then passively defend RM a few posts later.

I don't see a case that makes sense on Otolia. I do see all of my scum reads attacking them though.

There are far scummier people in this game right now than Random. I feel that should be obvious.

Lynching Random achieves nothing. As someone just stated, it's a very easy wagon for scum to jump on and a low information lynch.

Can you decide on which side of the fence you're on ? Oh right, you're on the other wagon. Alchemist said the same thing as him btw.

People, there is no easy lynch for scum. As a scum, you can't help but analyze the potentiality of every wagon and the likelihood you'll get caught for saying this and that. The only people who can lynch without fear are townies.

I'm going to say that Randommidget should probably be lynched at some point before it gets lylo or something because then he's a giant liability

. However, these things aren't often scum tells. Being barely off from flaking and completely useless isn't a scum tell, and so if you have any scum reads or something I'd suggest trying to vote them instead. If not, then the day can fall to this lynch, but it's really more of a getting it out of the way thing.

HELL FUCKING NO ! HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING DEFINETELY SCUMMY LIKE LYING ABOUT HIS ROLE OR HIS NIGHT ACTIONS. NO !

Conclusion (Partial) : Linear reading didn't bring much. I probably need to read Llamafluff case before I make a decision. In any case, it brought forth a lot of various reactions and some are very questionable.

---

Spoiler: On everyone's town read

It appears to me that a lot of people are putting the same people as town : DarkLightA, RedCoyote. Now let's put aside their contribution for a moment and ask ourselves how the hell is everyone reading them town ? I am put off by this. What I mean is twofold:

• Some of the people reading them as town are doing it for love points. Being likeable is always useful to scum.
  
• This is applicable mainly to DLA but to some extent to BBT and (maybe someone else but I can't find it anymore). They have the tendency to distribute brownie points for what they describe as good posts. It's still early in the game to see in this approach as something else than encouragement for town activities but we should be alert if those become more opportunistic.

I know that's far-fetched right now but it's something town hasn't talked about so far and I wanted to bring it forth.

EDIT :

We may have masons in the setup, so my arguments have less impact now.

---

Spoiler: Collatz's inactivity

Mostly just a prod dodge.

UNVOTE: DarkLightA

I liked the way he questioned my actions and the way he has responed to the questions he has been asked by others. I'll post more later. Right now I'm going through everyone's ISO.

Everybody is keen to point out randommidget or mnemonicdevice lazyness/inactivity but Collatz gets a pass ? Look, I prod-dodged too so I'm not in the best position to talk but since Collatz was attacked by DLA, the wagon has died, everyone is moving on forgetting him and DLA has MASSIVE towncred. Everybody is the town is looking so freaking positive. It weirds me out.

---

This post I don't understand. What do you mean "not everything has the same value or the same reach?"

I can't find the right word unfortunately. RC's post was mish-mash of various quotes without organization. Some are good and bring things to town others less so. I find it hard to read. Thus the question. Probably not my best question ever ^^ I can

The Otolia wagon was Mnem, Lucky, Darklight, Random and myself. I'm going to assume that the null/scum read is me. I'm very interested to see why you're scum-reading me.

Mnemonic was still in RVS.

PS : I haven't paid enough attention to Reubus, I have some comments on him and its reaction which should arrive tomorrow.

[Randomnamechange]

Wow thats a lotta stuff. Ok.
Firstly, thank you to Alchemist for ebing my knight in shining armour.
Llama is starting to clutch as straws.
@rubeus, my playstylenis to coast day 1, find scum start of day 2, push them, almost get lynched, panic snd make up a readslist which guessesnhalf the scumteam, help them get lymched and get NK'ed.
I will post proper responses when im at my computer.
also the people trying to set up a compromise lynch are scummy.

[LlamaFluff]

@rubeus, my playstylenis to coast day 1, find scum start of day 2, push them, almost get lynched, panic snd make up a readslist which guessesnhalf the scumteam, help them get lymched and get NK'ed.

So your playstyle is to be worthless for as long as you can get away with it?

Wouldn't it be the best possible play for scum to do exactly what you are doing here if they can get away with it? Say that you will be useful day two and use that to skirt by the first day never contributing anything?

[DarkLightA]

Not at all. I'm being pedantic.

It's not even close that everyone is OK with lynching Reubus.

A few people have expressed they would be OK with it. Nothing more than that. I mean, I don't even think he is the leading wagon.

You're right. I think it's just struck me to the extent that it looks more significant than it actually is. I'm just saying that I find it bothersome that he's being mentioned as a compromise. It seems that many are in the stage of "wouldn't mind him being lynched" and I'm wondering whether that is likely to happen if scum is being targeted. By all means, Reubus might be scum, and his play is scummy imo, but I don't know about the whole atmosphere around him.

[DarkLightA]

Spoiler: Shit-ton of analysis

Spoiler: On randommidget and reactions

He looks very attentist, particularly in this post :

@redcoyote im always like this day 1. Flips are like coffee for me. I need them to get going.
So are we doing the tier thing?

But then mnemonicdevice is doing the same below and gets a pass ...

RM can you start doing something so you don't get lynched please.

I don't like BBT's attack here. Sure RM isn't participating a lot but his argument denotes a low level of involvement in the lynch. I'm a massive proponent of Policy Lynch but when I decided on a PL, I don't stop unless there is a town consensus. PL are strong because there is a cohesion around them. Menacing someone of a PL without trying to federate is either bad PL implementation or a scumtell.

And im concerned that you say there is at least one scum in RM and RS and then passively defend RM a few posts later.

I don't see a case that makes sense on Otolia. I do see all of my scum reads attacking them though.

There are far scummier people in this game right now than Random. I feel that should be obvious.

Lynching Random achieves nothing. As someone just stated, it's a very easy wagon for scum to jump on and a low information lynch.

Can you decide on which side of the fence you're on ? Oh right, you're on the other wagon. Alchemist said the same thing as him btw.

People, there is no easy lynch for scum. As a scum, you can't help but analyze the potentiality of every wagon and the likelihood you'll get caught for saying this and that. The only people who can lynch without fear are townies.

I'm going to say that Randommidget should probably be lynched at some point before it gets lylo or something because then he's a giant liability

. However, these things aren't often scum tells. Being barely off from flaking and completely useless isn't a scum tell, and so if you have any scum reads or something I'd suggest trying to vote them instead. If not, then the day can fall to this lynch, but it's really more of a getting it out of the way thing.

HELL FUCKING NO ! HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING DEFINETELY SCUMMY LIKE LYING ABOUT HIS ROLE OR HIS NIGHT ACTIONS. NO !

Conclusion (Partial) : Linear reading didn't bring much. I probably need to read Llamafluff case before I make a decision. In any case, it brought forth a lot of various reactions and some are very questionable.

---

Spoiler: On everyone's town read

It appears to me that a lot of people are putting the same people as town : DarkLightA, RedCoyote. Now let's put aside their contribution for a moment and ask ourselves how the hell is everyone reading them town ? I am put off by this. What I mean is twofold:

• Some of the people reading them as town are doing it for love points. Being likeable is always useful to scum.
  
• This is applicable mainly to DLA but to some extent to BBT and (maybe someone else but I can't find it anymore). They have the tendency to distribute brownie points for what they describe as good posts. It's still early in the game to see in this approach as something else than encouragement for town activities but we should be alert if those become more opportunistic.

I know that's far-fetched right now but it's something town hasn't talked about so far and I wanted to bring it forth.

EDIT :

We may have masons in the setup, so my arguments have less impact now.

---

Spoiler: Collatz's inactivity

Mostly just a prod dodge.

UNVOTE: DarkLightA

I liked the way he questioned my actions and the way he has responed to the questions he has been asked by others. I'll post more later. Right now I'm going through everyone's ISO.

Everybody is keen to point out randommidget or mnemonicdevice lazyness/inactivity but Collatz gets a pass ? Look, I prod-dodged too so I'm not in the best position to talk but since Collatz was attacked by DLA, the wagon has died, everyone is moving on forgetting him and DLA has MASSIVE towncred. Everybody is the town is looking so freaking positive. It weirds me out.

---

This post I don't understand. What do you mean "not everything has the same value or the same reach?"

I can't find the right word unfortunately. RC's post was mish-mash of various quotes without organization. Some are good and bring things to town others less so. I find it hard to read. Thus the question. Probably not my best question ever ^^ I can

The Otolia wagon was Mnem, Lucky, Darklight, Random and myself. I'm going to assume that the null/scum read is me. I'm very interested to see why you're scum-reading me.

Mnemonic was still in RVS.

PS : I haven't paid enough attention to Reubus, I have some comments on him and its reaction which should arrive tomorrow.

You raise some interesting points (see what I did there?)

This is the kind of post I was looking for from your meta. You had this kind of play from the beginning in your games before leaving the site. Why have you waited this long to bring it back, only after a significant amount of pressure?