New York 180 (Endgame)

[T S O]

I am actually close to screaming irl.

[T S O]

Props to you, Marquis. You've engineered a scenario where your team won't bus, which is the correct play, and you've also convinced enough town members not to lynch you that you can't die today.

[Kitz]

I am actually close to screaming irl.

Well, if this cheers you, just saying that I believe your efforts on trying to find scum.

[dragonspawn]

@Ozgin: I already told you what I thought about Aero.
Specifically, why do people care about my case on Aero when I have 3 different scumreads? Nobody is asking about the other two but they're just harping on this one thing like it's the end-all-be-all of my play.

protecting aero?

Seriously?

and what reason do you think they have for only asking you about aero?

You tell me?

Pretty sure I did.

Btw that was a command not a question.

[dragonspawn]

Props to you, Marquis. You've engineered a scenario where your team won't bus, which is the correct play, and you've also convinced enough town members not to lynch you that you can't die today.

He hasn't survived yet.

[T S O]

I don't think scum are going to leave me alive tomorrow. In one way, it would be a mislynch which wouldn't be impossible to achieve, but on the other, there are at least 2 mislynches more viable than I, while I'm a rallying point for town, I have the potential to shoot scum, and I have a peculiar habit of evading the noose when scum really need it to happen.

[elusive]

Oh theatrics, how I feel about them:


TSO maybe you should focus your ire on little old Shinobi since you're safe for today and that one is about to hit the chopping block because he can respond with "you tell me" but he can't be effed to make a case on his scum reads. Any of the three of them.

As for Marquis, maybe if you *GASP* built an actual case instead of thinking that spouting of one liners was somehow miraculous, town might care.

[Shinobi]

@Ozgin: I already told you what I thought about Aero.
Specifically, why do people care about my case on Aero when I have 3 different scumreads? Nobody is asking about the other two but they're just harping on this one thing like it's the end-all-be-all of my play.

protecting aero?

Seriously?

and what reason do you think they have for only asking you about aero?

You tell me?

Pretty sure I did.

Btw that was a command not a question.

I'm not protecting Aero for you.

[T S O]

I am actually close to screaming irl.

Well, if this cheers you, just saying that I believe your efforts on trying to find scum.

Kitz, you truly warm my heart.

Props to you, Marquis. You've engineered a scenario where your team won't bus, which is the correct play, and you've also convinced enough town members not to lynch you that you can't die today.

He hasn't survived yet.

He's got a voting bloc who won't lynch him, dragon. {Marquis, goodmorning, Aeronaut, Ozgin} straight up won't. Shinobi and elusive probably won't. That's a majority right there.

[Shinobi]

TSO at this point you need to find an alternative lynch. Marquis isn't happening and I'm the alternative.

[T S O]

Spoiler: TSO on Marquis

Oh yeah, I hated Marquis' play there too. I should go take a look.

Gonna follow up on this?

Of course, baby.

Actually, one of my current tinfoil-hat theories which is beginning to gnaw at me is that one of the conduits to Nobody Special's death was scum realising - and Cheetory had a moment where I refused to discuss it and that could have tipped him off.

I'm not really sure why I would be more suspicious than the other people who probably didn't notice the claim and just didn't say anything. I get why I'm being singled out here, but it's shitty that someone else probably had this realization and I'm taking the fall for it. -.-

When I say tinfoil-hat theory, I mean it's what I think of when I get paranoid. I think NS could have been low-priority as a target due to inactivity etc. - but there -are- scumkills missing, which maybe he blocked, and they got sick of it. I think this is more likely than my theory about you.

Fully support a Marquis wagon at this juncture, will probably push it sooner or later.

Can you walk through why exactly? Or point me in the direction of a post you've made which reflects your current feelings on him?

To summarise my thoughts:

Marquis' stance on me, and stances in general, are fluctuating bullshit. His read on FA_Q2 also kept going back and forth yesterday. His justification of this is "Well, you can't expect me to have static reads when I've only just replaced in." This is true. However, his reads on me are not simply "not static." They are ever-changing. There's never any reasoning for them, ever. It's true that this could be from town-Marquis. I told him he had one day yesterday. His stance on me today, summarised, is "he's null-scum because he's been pushing easy targets like faq, who I also pushed on and off yesterday." That was the final straw for me. I cannot reconcile how he could post this, when the thought process required to do so would be something like this:

"I wanted FA dead for being scummy yesterday, and I was wrong! And TSO was the same, so I'm gonna give him a scumread."

I just cannot see town Marquis doing that. Maybe if he was able to detail why his read on me and FA, in particular, went "town-scum-town-scum-tum-scown-town-scum", but I doubt he remembers those. I have no idea why he felt his thought process needed to be opaque this game - opaque thought processes are a bad idea 99% of the time. And he's not usually into super-opaqueness, at least now as town, from what I've seen of him.

I'm sorry, Shinobi, we're not having another day where we hem and we haw and Marquis is "indecisive", tells us he's paranoid of me, and we lynch dragonspawn in a deadline panic.

that was not a fucking deadline panic

there was a week left and everyone was just sick of everything

and you even liked my fa_q2 case, brought up points to back it up, and advocated his lynch for the whole rest of the day

You're right - however, what I described was exactly how this day would have panned out if not for my intervention. You would have done nothing useful except fake paranoia.

You're also right on FA_Q2 - I did like that wagon. By the way, you never explained to me how us both supporting the wagon made me nullscum and you town. I'd love to hear it. Except I don't think I ever will, because you've flat out refused to explain any of your read progresses this game. <---

This is a huge fucking scumtell, I don't know why people don't see that.

i don't care what you have to say about me knowing or not knowing your scum game, because i already know i'm not 100% on that

So why did you say it, then?

the real issue i have is you having multiple experiences with both my town and scum games, and then somehow having the audacity to say my towngame isn't opaque and by definition open and easy to see- and that's a totally bullshit misrepresentation.

See, this is why you're scum. Let me lay out what was said:

TSO: Marquis's game here has been completely and utterly opaque - his towngame is not usually like this.
Marquis: Hey, he's saying my towngame isn't opaque! THAT MUST MEAN HE'S SAYING IT'S COMPLETELY OPEN! SCUM!

It's these random fucking moments of bullshit you keep pulling.

i don't even care how it looks that i'm arguing my town game sucks, but you should know this and know how easy it was for me to act natural and get you to townread me when i was scum.

You knew that, after beating me in Rick Santorum, if you came in here and tried the same shit I'd probably nail your ass to the wall. So you tried to vary your scumgame. Maybe insert a little paranoia. I know what you were thinking.

so right now, especially after letting me slide yesterday then only coming at me now when i've started to express a stronger scumread on you, i want you dead.

Ahahaha this is bullshit and lies. I'm taking a separate post to address this because it's such a blatant falsehood.

it looks like i'm going to flip first.

Damn fucking straight it does - big bright red letters in the OP.

so right now, especially after letting me slide yesterday then only coming at me now when i've started to express a stronger scumread on you

Okay, so this is a straight up-lie.

Spoiler: Yesterday

VOTE: tso

didn't finish reading but i like this right now. a lot.

Votes for me for no reason, never given either.

VOTE: tso

didn't finish reading but i like this right now. a lot.

Okay, you've made your mind, go justify it now. Off with you.

I ask for justification.

"oh fa is scum"
"wait no"
"oh tso is scum"
"wait no"
"oh fa is scum again"

What are you doing, Marquis?

I'm not aggressive.

I don't like Marquis' read progression at all - I don't have a particular issue with him jumping around, I often do the same, but his thought process is completely opaque and has been in everything he's done so far.

Still not aggressive.

I like the names on the FA wagon a lot more than those on the Marquis wagon.

FA_Q2 -is- being lynched today, and there's towncred available - the only question is whether scum have the guts to bus him or not.

I back the FA wagon over the Marquis wagon.

So, yesterday, you can see Marquis openly supported my wagon and I did not do what Marquis's apparently saying I always do by attack people who attack me as scum. Point disproven.

Spoiler: Today

VOTE: dragonspawn

goodmorning goes up into town, unrelated to dragon's things.

tso is nullscum again. part of me thinking he was town end of yesterday was related to me being hugely overconfident about fa_q2 scum. i feel like a lot of his recent posts now in hindsight go along with that, like he's pushing easy targets that town has already made a case on or driving a lynch on. just... his recent attacks and scumreads seem to be pushing easy target after easy target.

actually i kind of really want to just lynch tso but nobody's probably up for that.

pedit oh my god that response pings as honest town though gahhhhhhh

UNVOTE:

...recalculating............ this is.....

why do i get the feeling that we just have a lot of town outclassed by scum in experience at looking town?? shinobi, tso? i could see those two easily driving a scumteam.

i'm just going to get rid of my do-not-lynch list entirely and go for the easier, less-potential-disaster option between those two. there's an added benefit in that i don't remember any significant reads on or from him or things he's done. scum removing himself from significant interactions? likely

VOTE: shinobi

"TSO is nullscum, Shinobi is more scum!"

yeah 4456-7 and his response to me voting him are super gross

let's go shinobi wagon

Fully backs Shinobi wagon...

"Hey, can you elaborate on your vote?"

lol bs on that, all you did was threaten me with a past game where i got lynched over you, plus i already elaborated in my original vote and i'm not ashamed to admit your posting after my vote is only strengthening my fortitude and confidence here

so don't pretend like you're innocent. the difference here is this game i'm town, and even if i lose this 1v1 i'm totally ready to have, it's not the end of the world now. i'll be on the record as having started a wagon on scum and died for it in the end

...goes on to tell us he doesn't mind dying because Shinobi's scum.

I support Marquis dying, guess I'm scum too?

Fully support a Marquis wagon at this juncture, will probably push it sooner or later.

Can you walk through why exactly? Or point me in the direction of a post you've made which reflects your current feelings on him?

To summarise my thoughts:

Marquis' stance on me, and stances in general, are fluctuating bullshit. His read on FA_Q2 also kept going back and forth yesterday. His justification of this is "Well, you can't expect me to have static reads when I've only just replaced in." This is true. However, his reads on me are not simply "not static." They are ever-changing. There's never any reasoning for them, ever. It's true that this could be from town-Marquis. I told him he had one day yesterday. His stance on me today, summarised, is "he's null-scum because he's been pushing easy targets like faq, who I also pushed on and off yesterday." That was the final straw for me. I cannot reconcile how he could post this, when the thought process required to do so would be something like this:

"I wanted FA dead for being scummy yesterday, and I was wrong! And TSO was the same, so I'm gonna give him a scumread."

I just cannot see town Marquis doing that. Maybe if he was able to detail why his read on me and FA, in particular, went "town-scum-town-scum-tum-scown-town-scum", but I doubt he remembers those. I have no idea why he felt his thought process needed to be opaque this game - opaque thought processes are a bad idea 99% of the time. And he's not usually into super-opaqueness, at least now as town, from what I've seen of him.

I say I want Marquis dead.

UNVOTE:

I've been in a "fuck my reads" mood since the FA_Q2 flip, and up until now I've tried not to care about people scumreading me but now it's "fuck my reads and fuck this game".

I don't know what's up. This game seems to have a heavy split between significantly experienced players and not very experienced at all, and how the flips have gone this game signify to me that the scum is hiding in the experienced pool.

Shinobi right now I'm still not liking at all, but I'm willing to admit that my approach to that was flawed so any response he has to me would naturally incense me in return. I just... I really have no idea anymore. I feel like I'm sabotaging my own reads at the very least. Ignoring again for now.

Then it comes to the main thing I'm used to TSO-scum doing, which is pushing back on people when they start scumreading him and pushing for their lynch, and that's a part of what I see him doing here. Not to mention that post above about my meta sounds like bullshit because he knows when I'm actually scum I'm comfortable as fuck, and when I'm town that's when I have no idea what's going on and I just feel weak and unsure of everything. And I also feel like his sudden attack on me, after mostly letting my insecurity regarding FA_Q2 slide yesterday, is part of him taking advantage of how uncomfortable and unsure I am here, not only about my reads but about how I'm starting to feel about how I'm perceived.

VOTE: TSO

As of this post the only reads I'm sure of are townreads on Silverwolf and goodmorning. I don't even know what I saw as town in dragonspawn earlier but right now that's back to null because I'm afraid I've gotten into the habit of townreading scum for doing stupid things lately.

I'll be back later, I need to take a breath.

And I'm scum, and Shinobi isn't. Magical.

i don't care what you have to say about me knowing or not knowing your scum game, because i already know i'm not 100% on that

the real issue i have is you having multiple experiences with both my town and scum games, and then somehow having the audacity to say my towngame isn't opaque and by definition open and easy to see- and that's a totally bullshit misrepresentation.

i don't even care how it looks that i'm arguing my town game sucks, but you should know this and know how easy it was for me to act natural and get you to townread me when i was scum. so right now, especially after letting me slide yesterday then only coming at me now when i've started to express a stronger scumread on you, i want you dead. given how the rest of this game seems to blindly trust you for some reason, it looks like i'm going to flip first. but i really don't give a damn anymore because this is all bullshit and if it takes my mislynch for you to finally flip too, then, well, that's fucking great.

as you said, we only need one scumflip to finally open this game up. i agree, and i want you lynched.

And then the old classic we saw before with Shinobi: "I don't mind dying because TSO is scum."

I think it's again obvious as fuck he's making up his reads out of thin air to fit whatever agenda he wants to push. It was scum-Shinobi, now it's scum-TSO.

The main, core thing is a gut+meta read that you absolutely would not have attacked me like this if you were town. You know the caliber of my town game versus my scum game, and this feels almost exactly like the same way you shut me down and lynched me when my main scumread was you in N's game (as Cho). But of course the rest of town here who mostly don't know me and I suspect are newish or like to do things "by the book" won't really take that as reasoning. Which is fair enough.

You know what amuses me so much about this game and your case? I genuinely think it funny that your case on me is "you would not be attacking me like this if you were town because you'd give my towngame a chance." You want to know why?

Because I did give you a chance. I specifically said yesterday I was giving you a day to get your shit in order. You know what had happened before that? You'd attacked me for literally no reason. Did I do what apparently scum always do? No. Did I attack you? No. Even though you scumread me for no reason at all, I didn't immediately attack you. I calmly told you to go off and justify it. When you realised you couldn't, you simply jumped back onto FA. It also doesn't go unnoticed, Marquis, that as you jumped back onto the largest wagon pressure had been coming onto you from people like dragonspawn.

So, to summarise:

Yesterday, you scumread me for no reason.
I didn't get aggressive, I told you to tell me why.
You never did and jumped onto FA.
I told you I was giving you one day.
You came into the thread today with your reads exactly the same.
That was when I realised you were lazy as shit scum, and started pushing you.
As soon as I did this, you dropped your Shinobi scumread and started pushing me as 100% scum.
Your main reasoning? "Oh you're scum for attacking me."
The only problem is, I took the other path in this game and I saw where it led me.
I have every justification for attacking you.
So you better find a new reason to call me scum, because to anyone who's read this post, that one's not going to wash anymore.

I've said all I have to say - explained why night actions somewhat exonerate me, explained how Marquis's scumread on me is founded on half-truths and lies, explained why I believe Marquis is scum and shown my meta isn't as static as Marquis is trying to claim it is. I feel, looking at what I've posted on Marquis, it is decisively convincing enough to show that he's scum going for the jugular mislynch.

I cannot explain how convinced I am Marquis is scum. I know it, I know I have him on the ropes. All I need is for you to vote him. Just put your paranoia of me aside, stop letting people paint me as the greatest scumplayer who ever lynched, and take this game on the merits of this game. If you do that, you'll see Marquis is scum. Please.

[Kitz]

Marquis isn't happening and I'm the alternative.

Well, how about... making so you're not the alternative? Should be obvious to defend yourself, nay?

[T S O]

Quotes are fucked a little, elusive, but they're not one-liners.

[T S O]

He's got a voting bloc who won't lynch him, dragon. {Marquis, goodmorning, Aeronaut, Ozgin} straight up won't. Shinobi and elusive probably won't. That's a majority right there.

Anyone in this list who's town; you need to be fully aware you're tossing the game if you refuse to vote Marquis.

[Shinobi]

Marquis isn't happening and I'm the alternative.

Well, how about... making so you're not the alternative? Should be obvious to defend yourself, nay?

Pretty much everything I've been saying in regards to the people on my wagon should be the equivalent of this.

Do you not see the validity of my arguments against GM/elusive or no?

[T S O]

Shinobi, you're not going to get support for them, and that big voteblock is just going to end up consolidating on you, which is a fancy way of saying they'll end up deadline lynching you.

[Shinobi]

I might sheep TSO here after all is said and done.

TSO, you're going to shoot GM, yes?

[Shinobi]

Yeah, I just kind of realized it.

[T S O]

If I'm around tomorrow I promise you I will take a serious, serious look at the two of them. But I need you with me now.

[T S O]

I might sheep TSO here after all is said and done.

TSO, you're going to shoot GM, yes?

Yes.

[T S O]

I am not as confident in scum-gm as I was - but she is literally aiding the scum by pushing their mislynch for them.

[T S O]

Plus, she hasn't clarified her role at all - she neighbourised 2 people in one day and after that the 'hood never re-opened? Because that's town?

[Kitz]

I think the best interest is to shoot GM so it can confirm the 2 others as town, OR as scum.
Unpopular opinion, but confirm outweights a lot.

[T S O]

How does it confirm them? Goodmorning isn't a Friendly Neighbouriser, which would make them conftown. She's just a Neighbouriser.

[elusive]

See the difference between FA and Shinobi is that I felt weird about lynching FA but didn't trust my reads. With Shinobi who's now OMGUSing me like an amnesiac who missed day 1-3 when I screamed from the rooftops against each town lynch tells me something is wrong. I was waiting to unleash wrath on whichever scumfuck decided to try to OMGUS me and guess what

*ring ding ding*

It's Shinobi. His flip tells us what to do with you TSO.

Also why not shoot Marquis if you're so confident?

I wonder if GM or instead the people she confirmed one of which is Aeronaut?

Then there's the SW and Ozgin neighbors stuff which Holy Fuck, there can't be this many neighbors can there be?