New York 180 (Endgame)

[Marquis]

pagetop:

i am calling for a vig to claim if you have not yet. not claiming right now is anti-town and whatever reasons you have for not doing so, you will not be believed unless you claim before shit with tso and me gets any further.

[T S O]

The dance was fun, Marquis, I'll give it that. I have no intention of shit-talking you - but I don't think I'll have to. I really don't.

[Marquis]

Hey, Marquis, how sure are you on Aero-scum?

if there's no vig claim i'm probably going to have to conclude you're telling the truth. because no matter how hard i've looked for another solution i can't see one especially in light of the 3 n1 kills and really fucking weird pattern.

and then i'll vote aero, i think.

[T S O]

I need to sleep on this game in case it's my last day in it.

[Ozgin]

Marquis, I'm not in a neighborhood with gm. Never have been.

TSO, I'm not discrediting you. I just want to be overly cautious because if you're a SK, you can potentially blow up on us all.

However, like I've said in most of my posts regarding this issue, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN LYNCHING YOU.

Anyways, I don't think Marquis is scum and I'm not ready to vote either way yet (Marq or Shin).

TSO - Why're you so sure you're going to die?

[Marquis]

oh it's been fun all right. i replaced into what was essentially a trigger mislynch slot on a 4 AM whim and managed to prevent it, at least until now.

how much of that was my ability to be obvtown and how much was just scum backing off of me because my scumreads sucked ass, i don't know yet but i figure seeing spoilers is going to kill me.

but it's been fun, if a little infuriating with every bullshit twist and turn.

[Marquis]

also regarding aeronaut's wanting to control tso's shot, i don't really think aero's town but i thought tso overreacted a lot. it's not like you've never heard of leashing an SK before.

whether you're vig or SK, we want to make sure you're shooting in the interest of town, with the understanding that anything to the contrary essentially loses you the game with a punitive lynch if you're the latter.

[SilverWolf]

GM neighborized me. What do you want to know about it specifically?

[elusive]

I think Shinobi dying today for his utterly crap play is ideal. TSO you're welcome to shoot whoever you want tonight. If the person you NK turns out to be scum, great news we'll follow your lead!

[Shinobi]

I think Shinobi dying today for his utterly crap play is ideal. TSO you're welcome to shoot whoever you want tonight. If the person you NK turns out to be scum, great news we'll follow your lead!

Which is why everybody is now coming around to me being town. Totes crap.

Totes.

[elusive]

who is everybody in your fantasy land?

Marquis, I agree about Aero since it'll help clear air around GM and her claim.

[Marquis]

GM neighborized me. What do you want to know about it specifically?

why is she town? i want to know specifically what she did, instead of just reading you guys saying "oh yeah she's town"

right now i still think you're town at least and i trust you more than aero. if there's scum in your hood, it's either aero only or aero and gm.

this is an example of me being a scum neighborizer, neighborizing and brainwashing townies so i could pull out a win for my team. and it's something along those lines i'm worried about.

[dragonspawn]

I seriously dont see how any of you could argue that tso isn't town. His entire game play has been town from the beginning. He is obviously the vigilante. Why the heck is that so difficult to see?

i don't think we have a SK. I highly doubt tso was deliberately not shooting people to pretend to to be a nonconsecutive vigilante.

and oz, you can claim your being cautious all you want. The fact still remains that you keep going after tso rather than hunt scum. That seems scummy to me.

[elusive]

I don't think TSO is the sk at least I don't lean that, I do want him to shoot someone from a narrow pool because his shooting MathBlade was whack to the level F.

[SilverWolf]

Marquis-I'll look that over and get back to you.

OK, Let's say that we mislynch today, worse case scenario and TSO vig kills town by mistake and scum kills town as well.

That puts us to 8 alive tomorrow, which if there are 4 scum left alive is a sure fire win for scum. I don't know if there are 3 or 4 right now. In a game like this I could see a 4 or 5 person scumteam. With town OP'd who knows? Anyone have experience with typical scumteam size in Large Normals?

So, given this, and without a real solid scum lead, should we consider a NL or am I being dumb?

With the way my mind is right now, you will not insult me if you think I'm being an idiot. But perhaps a NL would be best now?

Then, worse case scenario, vig misfires, scum kills, that brings us to 9 tomorrow which could be a lylo situation but not an auto-loss because pisskop was killed and there is no way I'm going to believe a 6 person scumteam.

We have 4 days until deadline. Input, ideas?

[Aeronaut]

I think scum may have had an RC.

I don't think goodmorning's claim fits the bill.

What's wrong with her claim?

Town = Marquis, GM, Silver

What makes SilverWolf on the "totally town" list?

Because I feel like all of her interactions have been very genuine and not contrived. Usually I look mostly for artificiality in interactions and I see none of that with her.

SO few people talking about the Shinobi lynch while FA was pushed really quickly. Paranoia time?

I felt like a lot of people were talking about this, especially since he's the leading wagon.

Wait, goodmorning, walk me through your thought process there?

You didn't want to get me in a PT if you thought I was scum so you could firm up your read and then push it? Instead, you picked your townreads, and then with them and you in the PT you did ???

Um, well usually neighboring people makes people know she's a PR; So if she thought you were scum it only makes sense to not want you to know that kind of information.

@Ozgin: Have you been fighting with Shinobi?

No. I had a slight conflict with Shinobi but it was in a lousy bit of rage.

Remember what happened the 4 other lynches? "Me or another".

ERMAGUD IT REPETZ

This is 100% accurate to my feelings for the TSO/Marquis fight. However, I'm pretty convinced that TSO is serial killer.

Spoiler: TSO is the SK

Oh, you claimed an unverifiable role which happens to have the same powers as a Serial Killer?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

So this post made me question whether or no TSO could actually be the SK or not, and whether or not his vig claim is legitimate. Because it is perfectly valid to debate whether or not a player is a Town Vigilante or a Serial Killer trying to leash himself as a vigilante.

Actually, the point about the vig is completely relevant - our vig had "presumably" shot scum on night 1, which shows they are a competent player and shouldn't have to be limited to doing the policy work of the town.

The MathBlade kill was also optimal last night, because ABR did not retract his claim - thus, the vig has yet to really slip up, reinforcing my point.

Interesting how he chooses a quote that happened way after the next four in this "wall of crumbs." This isn't a crumb, this is him saying "I'm about to claim vigilante because I've been setting this up for a while."

if MathBlade is Vengeful then why did ABR track her to Ellie? How has Math concluded that ABR has gone from 100% scum to town?

This has absolutely nothing to do with vigilantes. Seriously, how on earth is this a crumb to anything? It's just drawing unnecessary attention to MathBlade. Maybe this is where you started to get the bright idea to set up these next few quotes...

Can we all just talk about MathBlade's what-the-fuck stance for a bit?

This is in no way a crumb for a vig claim. This is, in my opinion, his SK-slip in this series of quotes. He thinks this is a crumb for him being vigilante because in 2 posts (next quote) he's going to set himself up to claim vig and shoot Math. However, this post, in and of itself, is just a gateway into attacking MathBlade/building town hate on MathBlade. This literally reads to me, "Can we all just start hating MathBlade so when I fakeclaim vigilante I won't get yelled at for killing her?

TSO you said you were townreading ABR a while ago.
Why are you voting him over Math if you think I'm right? :/.

Because either he dies from vig or lynch and the vig could do better than shooting him.

This is where he, very conveniently, is setting himself up to claim vig soon after. Notice how he doesn't even remotely acknowledge the likelihood of the scum team killing Math or even the SK.

So, let's get this straight: ABR got a result last night, which wasn't you, as town, and has decided to lie yet again... ?

Yep However when I explain it plainly and you do but attack what is clear it is frustrating.

ABR even said so.

The vig could do better and shoot you as ABR is town.

The vig is never going to shoot me - it's likely the vig is going to shoot you. If I were the vig, I'd already have the action sent.

This quote just sounds like he's setting himself up to claim vig the next day or two. I mean, this is screaming "Hey look, the vig is going to shoot MathBlade tonight!" *Stabs MathBlade* "See look! I'm the vig, here's where I admitted it!" Also, note that this is just 7 posts after the last post he quoted, where he's conveniently doing the same kind of setting up for a vig claim.

Crumbs. Last one especially relevant.

This whole things feels like TSO is trying to set himself up at the vig very conveniently. I think it's just as likely that TSO is the SK, and planned on killing MathBlade and using that kill as a set-up to try to conf-town himself. I believe he picked MathBlade because she was generally disliked, so he would easily be able to give some bullshit excuse when he claims vigilante so he doesn't get too much friction for it (and thanks to Aeronaut, that plan isn't working).

There were three kills in this game n1.
We have a Vig who shot scum n1.
I claimed the vig.
I showed my motivation for the n1 shot.
Ergo, I am town.

Just because you disagree with one of my shots, and you're retrospectively using that shot's townflip to argue your point, doesn't make me scum. It doesn't make me anywhere in the realm of scum. I have explained why I shot MathBlade. You disagree. Quite honestly, I couldn't give a fuck.

This is TSO getting really angry when his scheme to make MathBlade look like shit before his vig-claim set up isn't working. Also, there's nothing at all to say that you killing pisskop makes you town. You could have gotten lucky. Or, the real vig could have shot pisskop and you could have shot one of the other 2 people who died N1 and are just conveniently claiming that your shot was the one on the scum.

Stop your fucking set-up spec. Even if you think you know it, speculating on it has no benefit to anyone if you are town.

If you're scum, keep on speculating.

Lastly, this is the quote that basically says "Nobody go into setup spec because you'll then in turn be questioning me and I don't like suspicion!" I normally would agree that setup-spec is a bad reason for a scum read or a sk-read, but at this stage of the game it gets a little silly to think there are actually this many PRs.

Yea, except it's stupid to lynch him today on the off-chance that he's telling the truth. Even if he isn't, he's still probably going to shoot for scum regardless.

Aeronaut is still reaching to try and lynch our claimed vigi while directing his shot.

In what way am I trying to lynch him? That doesn't make sense to do today.

Fuck me, the quality of play is literally atrocious if you guys are town.

We have Ozgin, who's saying "hey thats not a crumb neither is that but that is you crumbing but maybe youre crumbing as sk!!!", where he took a gigantic post to come to the conclusion that, yes, I crumbed. That's it. That was the sum total of the conclusion.
We have Aeronaut, who's saying "hey i think you're scum but if you're not scum kill this person pls" because if I was scum, I'd definitely kill them, instead of, you know, someone who's actually a threat to me.

Etcetera.

TSO, the fact that you don't seem to understand what leashing an SK is disturbs me.

Props to you, Marquis. You've engineered a scenario where your team won't bus, which is the correct play, and you've also convinced enough town members not to lynch you that you can't die today.

I've played with scum Marquis before I'm pretty sure, and I don't see him as the evil mastermind you seem to think he is. Rather, he just seems extremely frustrated, and pretty town to me, at least this dayphase.

I think the best interest is to shoot GM so it can confirm the 2 others as town, OR as scum.
Unpopular opinion, but confirm outweights a lot.

How would this confirm anybody?

goodmorning's role is completely unclear and she needs to clarify it the fuck up.

What's unclear about it, exactly? I mean, she's a neighboriser, and she's used her action two nights. It'd be silly to reveal the shot information at this moment, so what else is there to clarify?

Mod, can we have a Votecount?

[goodmorning]

ctually he's more likely to be groupscum than he is to be SK at this point, imo.

With who?

1. I don't do associatives before flips.
2. Mafia>SK is not an equation that includes the 'Town' possibility.

-Why the fuck did I kill Boonskiies n1 if I'm the SK?

Something is wrong with this but I can't see what.

Why do I have to address this bullshit instead of directing the town like I should be? Jesus.

Because you're wrong about me and probably wrong about Marquis, Shinobi, Aero too.

You also killed obvTown Math so no Town directing for you.

TSO maybe you should focus your ire on little old Shinobi since you're safe for today and that one is about to hit the chopping block because he can respond with "you tell me" but he can't be effed to make a case on his scum reads. Any of the three of them.

As for Marquis, maybe if you *GASP* built an actual case instead of thinking that spouting of one liners was somehow miraculous, town might care.

Y E S

He's got a voting bloc who won't lynch him, dragon. {Marquis, goodmorning, Aeronaut, Ozgin} straight up won't. Shinobi and elusive probably won't. That's a majority right there.

Anyone in this list who's town; you need to be fully aware you're tossing the game if you refuse to vote Marquis.

This is heading past annoying into the territory of 'you can fuck right off.'

Do you not see the validity of my arguments against GM/elusive or no?

I'll ask again: what arguments?

Plus, she hasn't clarified her role at all - she neighbourised 2 people in one day and after that the 'hood never re-opened? Because that's town?

YOU ARE NOT READING

GM, which night did you take which action?

I believe I Neighbourised Aero N2 and SilverWolf N4. It took effect at the beginning of the successive Day in each case.

YOU CAN FUCK RIGHT OFF

Also why not shoot Marquis if you're so confident?

He'll be dead today.

You've just admitted that he won't, as too many people won't vote for him.
Your thought processes are irritatingly inconsistent.

goodmorning's role is completely unclear and she needs to clarify it the fuck up.

OR YOU COULD JUST FUCKING READ IT THE FIRST TIME TYVM

Lynching likely scum is far better than shooting likely scum. It's more difficult to lynch likely scum because the scumteam can try to disrupt it. So, if we can be successful with our lynch, and trust in the guy who's 1/2 for scum shots, we're more likely to hit 2 scum than not.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I TRUST YOU

NOT AT ALL

YOUR EGO MAKES YOU AN IDIOT

I really don't like that the wagons have been so cleanly forced into a dichotomy.

[Aeronaut]

Marquis-I'll look that over and get back to you.

OK, Let's say that we mislynch today, worse case scenario and TSO vig kills town by mistake and scum kills town as well.

That puts us to 8 alive tomorrow, which if there are 4 scum left alive is a sure fire win for scum. I don't know if there are 3 or 4 right now. In a game like this I could see a 4 or 5 person scumteam. With town OP'd who knows? Anyone have experience with typical scumteam size in Large Normals?

So, given this, and without a real solid scum lead, should we consider a NL or am I being dumb?

With the way my mind is right now, you will not insult me if you think I'm being an idiot. But perhaps a NL would be best now?

Then, worse case scenario, vig misfires, scum kills, that brings us to 9 tomorrow which could be a lylo situation but not an auto-loss because pisskop was killed and there is no way I'm going to believe a 6 person scumteam.

We have 4 days until deadline. Input, ideas?

I'm not going to be voting Marquis today. Best option today is Shinobi, who won't share his full reads with us, or really provide a lot of details of his thoughts outside of random one-lines which really don't hold a lot of weight with me. He keeps trying to milk that D1 "no track" read which doesn't conftown, and really can't be trusted much coming from ABR.

I'd like to vote Shinobi, but I have no idea what the VC is and I'd like to not accident-hammer. I believe he was L-2 last I checked.

[Marquis]

i see posts like that and then i think of tso's post about scum not bussing me and i just feel like shit "is it true mother? why aren't the scumz voting me" "because you're shit and your reads have been shit" and then i feel even shittier.

[SilverWolf]

Shinobi: Cheetory6, goodmorning, kitz, elusive [l-2]
TSO: marquis
marquis: TSO, dragonspawn, SilverWolf [l-3]
goodmorning: Shinobi

Not voting: Ozgin, Aeronaut

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch

(expired on 2015-04-06 00:00:00)

Here's a VC.

[Marquis]

UNVOTE:

I'm just going to go ahead and assume no vig claim! Yay!

:/

VOTE: Aeronaut

[Aeronaut]

vote: Shinobi

Let's see a reads list, Shinobi. A full one.

[Aeronaut]

How does no vig claim = Aero scum?

[Marquis]

can we not have him at l-1

also if there's no other vig claim i think tso is probably town after all, and i already explained but i feel like dragon's been backing up his ego and you're my secondary scumread and just

eh

i was townreading dragon earlier but i might be wrong on it. i think shinobi is town tho

[elusive]

VOTE: unvote