Open 589: Duck Duck Goose (Game Over: Somebody Won)

[talah]

5)

Why are you presenting voting a wagon which was guaranteed *not* to go through as "doing nothing"
- as this is completely false, and the argument for you voting me focussed on exactly the wrong thing - primarily the posts *after* I voted oddmusic instead the posts *leading up* to that vote

[talah]

2) Why didn't you see my vote on Kaboose as a pressure vote?

- since you came in afterward and simply laid suspicion and said it was "for pressure" later

It's called scumhunting. There are times that town want to give scum something to react to. It is a valid observation that town might react to it too. The skill is in looking at both reactions to see which is the town reaction and which is scum.

Reaction tests usually require some hidden element. And they usually depend on not having interference from other players.

[talah]

2) Why didn't you see my vote on Kaboose as a pressure vote?

[davesaz]

And your point would be?

[davesaz]

EBWOP - was replying to 1024, didn't notice there was another page.

I didn't give a rat's ass what your interaction with Kaboose was. I was focusing on

Ploben's interaction with Kaboose

.
I didn't even notice your contribution to it.

[talah]

My point is that you say that you have a scumhunting technique which somehow relies on 'other town' not interfering with your special strategies.

Yet you come in over the top of me trying to read Kaboose with your own unique strategies which are actually just casting suspicion on Kaboose.

And you also didn't have a case on me yesterday. Unless you still do now. which you don't.

Explain where you're at, please. And explain how describing me as obtuse helps you find scum.

[talah]

How does ploben's interaction with kaboose have anything to do with - anything?

[davesaz]

My case on you yesterday was that you did not have a reason for voting Odd. I still believe that I proved this in 592.
Nothing you can say will ever change my mind on 592.
My read might (and did) change

after

that point, but

at that point in time

you were scum.

I didn't even pay attention to your interaction with Kaboose. I read Kaboose's post (replying to Ploben) and responded to it. I treated that post in a total vacuum. I was not thinking about whether there were other people interacting with Kaboose. I'm pretty sure I looked at Kaboose's post, dual-iso'd him and Ploben, returned from the dual-iso, and posted my followup. I'm very sure I didn't look at anything else. That's what I do when I have a 5 minute window of opportunity. Some days that's what my life gives me. I multi-task on a continuous basis -- tonight I happen to not be doing anything else but it's a rare exception.

Spoiler: background on "truth"

I anticipate there might be a question on how I'd know I did that. I have a "semi-photographic" memory. If I'm actually paying attention, I remember things. I remember posting 592 and I remember posting my "better yet" question to Kaboose. If I'm not paying attention, such as when in skimming mode, I know "something" passed by my eyes but may not be able to remember exactly what. Occasionally I leave myself notes in a thread, when I know it's something the memory "recording" didn't pick up.

Further anticipating the "yeah, self meta, tl/dr". Another thing you should know about me. When I talk about RL events, I

never

lie. When I'm scum, I obviously lie about my role, and about who I'm scumreading and why. But I'm absolutely truthful when I give an account of what I actually did. If I'm not sure, I don't say anything at all, or I encircle it with "I think" or "to the best of my recollection". If I give it as an absolute truth, it's true -- or at least I think it's true, I've been known to be wrong but that's not a lie. Feel free to search my posts for the word "literal".

[Honey bee]

Honey bee can be 98% town(not quite as town as pisskop yet though.)

If you're trying to appeal to me this isn't the way to do it.

VOTE: kaboose

[talah]

Dave I actually don't give a shit about your backtracking and am going to vote kaboose because I'm drunk and hardheaded.

You proved nothing in 592 because you proved nothing in any post and I don't even have to look. I presume it's your "every post after voting odd" post. Am I wrong?

VOTE: Kaboose

[Honey bee]

:o I really wasn't expecting that but cool!

Dave I am specifically interested in your opinion on 'boose slot.

[Netherspite]

I wasn't really understanding all these townreads on

Kaboose

for a while but this

talah

's vote on him is looking like a blind sheeping. I don't like it.

[talah]

Yes, it's blind sheeping with a bit of internal validation.

What don't you like about it, Nether?

[Netherspite]

Can you elaborate on this "internal validation" ?

[talah]

HB is probably town and there's nothing to say that both dave and Kaboose staying off the wagon doesn't indicate that either or both aren't scum.

Can you elaborate on what you don't like about me sheeping HB considering I've done it since the start of the day and since I'm one of the poeple who's actually posited that Kaboose might be town?

Can you explain slowly and carefully what your post actually means?
:-

I wasn't really understanding all these townreads on

Kaboose

for a while but this

talah

's vote on him is looking like a blind sheeping. I don't like it.

[Netherspite]

I never like blind sheeping.
It looks weird for me every time I see it. Why would town ever do it?
You scumread

Kaboose

? Okay then explain why and vote him, that's fine.
You don't scumread him? Then why sheeping a vote on someone you don't consider scum?

[talah]

Who was I voting Day 1?

It was not Vettrock.

Who am I sheeping now?

The person who I was not sure on and who was voting, and as far as I can tell the main purveyor of Vettrock's lynch.

Do you think she's wrong? Or do you think I'm hiding behind her? Because seeing I was wrong yesterday I don't intend to be a major part of today's lynch.

So I will sheep and take into accoutn HB's read - and although I think dave vs Kaboose leads to dave considering both were off *both* wagons - I admit that it could be Kaboose or both who are scum.

And I'm quite happy to lynch either today, and I'm quite happy to sheep HB onto any other vote today.

Problem?

[Netherspite]

Who was I voting Day 1?

It was not Vettrock.

Who am I sheeping now?

The person who I was not sure on and who was voting, and as far as I can tell the main purveyor of Vettrock's lynch.

Do you think she's wrong? Or do you think I'm hiding behind her? Because seeing I was wrong yesterday I don't intend to be a major part of today's lynch.

So I will sheep and take into accoutn HB's read - and although I think dave vs Kaboose leads to dave considering both were off *both* wagons - I admit that it could be Kaboose or both who are scum.

And I'm quite happy to lynch either today, and I'm quite happy to sheep HB onto any other vote today.

Problem?

Ok, makes sense.
It just looked weird that you voted him exactly as soon as HB did. I understand what you mean though.

[Storyteller]

Vote Count 2.04

With 11 alive it's 6 votes to Lynch.

Voting for:

Netherspite (0):
davesaz (1): Pisskop
talah (0):
Honey bee (0):
GreyICE(0):

Pisskop(4): Taly, davesa, ChriViz, GreyICE

Kaboose (2): Honey bee, talah
oddmusic (0):
ploben (0):
ChriVi (1): ploben
Taly (0):

If deadline is reached without any changes to the votes,

Pisskop

would be lynched.

Not voting (3): Netherspite, Kaboose, oddmusic

Deadline is on April 15nd, 1625 UTC or in (expired on 2015-04-15 16:25:00)

[ploben]

Obtuse!

I lol'ed.

[pisskop]

Hi. Im glad other people tarted down the Kaboose Super-buddy bit. My head spun when I started reading it. Why was my threatening to self-hammer the towniest town move in all of townsville?

Also, look at the Taly overreaction. He needs a rope.

[pisskop]

So lets not lynch me, I still have my shot that I can wifom away.

[Kaboose]

piss you're town for threatening to self hammer, why would scum bring that up? I could understand if maybe it was a bit later in the game and it would keep one of his buddies from doing it, but you hammering yourself would have meant two straight scum lynches. I can't see scum playing against their wincon that hard.

[Netherspite]

piss you're town for threatening to self hammer, why would scum bring that up? I could understand if maybe it was a bit later in the game and it would keep one of his buddies from doing it, but you hammering yourself would have meant two straight scum lynches. I can't see scum playing against their wincon that hard.

Threating to do something != doing something.
Scum could threat to self-hammer exactly for the extra free towncred.

[davesaz]

I agree with Nether on the threatened self-hammer. Acting town in a little way like that doesn't make someone town.
VCA and the how of the votes led me to pisskop, but the lack of meaningful town motivated activity is what's keeping me there.

@Honey Bee & Talah: I don't find it easy to discard logic. But I am open to being convinced. If Kaboose is scum, who's the other?