Micro 465: Molla's New Roles Mafia - GAME OVER

[saulres]

/confirm

[saulres]

Hammer without a claim is a policy lynch. No exceptions.

[saulres]

VOTE: BRantz

For hammering Gamstart without a claim, and also because his name is a combination of these guys, who can't ever be trusted:

[saulres]

Voting anyone other than BBMolla is a scumclaim.

This ain't a bastard game bro. Why are you so worried about you or your buddy getting wagoned in RVS that you have to vote for someone not in the game?

[saulres]

Because I don't know who either of the people he finds my name to be a mash up of are.

B

randon and

R

ussel H

antz

, from the CBS show Survivor.

Are you going to fluff the entire game?

Pot, meet Kettle.

VOTE: House

[saulres]

VOTE: vonflare

Discuss

UNVOTE: vonflare

Dude, you didn't give us time to discuss.

But I'll try anyway. What were you hoping to accomplish by self-voting after we already went through a round of bogus votes? And when you unvoted yourself, why didn't you place a vote on anyone else?

Speaking of which... The following people owe us some votes so we have something to talk about:
vonflare
shos
hi im Yakko

[saulres]

Oh I can discuss votes that have already happened if you'd like. Let's see what I can find.

Oh yeah that's why I asked for more. Not enough votes to discuss. Except for one thing which I missed the first time around. That looks worthy of pursuit.

VOTE: McMenno

[saulres]

Too expensive? Tell me, shos, what's it going to take to get you out of RVS today?

[saulres]

shos, stop whiteknighting McMenno and let

him

respond. Which he could have done when he was online earlier and posted elsewhere but not here. You know I see that as a scumtell.

Basically, it should be pretty obvious which one of us is posting.

Not to those of us who don't really know your current styles. If you don't mind signing I'd sure appreciate it.

[saulres]

shos, I'm not voting him for lurking, I'm voting him for the reason I stated. Am I convinced he's scum? No, but the lurking adds to the possibility he is.

House and BRantz's arguments that we're out of RVS hold water with me. Especially because I exited it 3 posts before I think House did.

[saulres]

vonflare, what I think shos is asking is this: "3 people voted McMenno for making fun of a question on page 1 (really page 2 shos). How is McMenno's action,

so early in the game

considered scummy?"

I also doubt that McMenno and shos are scum together, I don't see scumshos going so crazy defending his scumbuddy.

shos, I didn't say it was scummy, I said is was "worthy of pursuit". There's a difference. And if McMenno's town and there's scum on the wagon it's probably BRantz.

But I'm not liking McMenno's response. "Oh, I'm being attacked for my vote, better unvote".

[saulres]

Reasoning for the second part of the quoted line? Thought it's pretty clear, I think House is more likely to be town than BRantz.

My vote is still on McMenno. I didn't see a reason to move it. Hopefully he'll find the time to play this game and give me more to evaluate from.

pedit: No, I put him at L-3. BRantz is the third vote.

ppedit2: You read your reason into his unvote, I read mine. And LOL at "read the game" given my first pedit.

[saulres]

Three questions:

1) Are "I feel like my vote on MoP is not productive" and "I began townreading MoP" equivalent statements to you?

2) Why did you say "starts throwing a bunch of abbreviations around"? We all see that he "threw" two abbreviations out, what is your reason for pointing it out?

3) Why did you vote MoP in the first place?

[saulres]

in terms of the MM wagon I think him better for it?

Does that mean you think he's town and there's scum on his wagon? If so, who's the scum and why?

[saulres]

I don't know about shos. His behavior in the first few pages seemed a bit frivolous

I've had shos in several of the games I've run. IIRC, he likes to goof around a lot in the beginning but that's not alignment-indicative. Use the stuff that looks real to judge his alignment.

House was jerking around in the beginning too, he just stopped before shos did. How do you feel about House?

pedit

Mod:

You say not Normal, but I'm assuming you don't mean Bastard. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thx.

[saulres]

@Saulres Why is McMenno scum?

I've already said I'm not convinced that he's scum, so I can't answer that.

You also don't have to say what's in the pedits; pedit is used when there's something you want to respond to that showed up before you were ready to post your post. If there's nothing you want to respond to you don't have to acknowledge them.

[saulres]

McMenno, why do you keep avoiding answering questions put to you?

[saulres]

???

You're not answering them because I'm the one asking them? Is that what you're saying? Why wouldn't you answer them?

How are we supposed to get a read on you if you don't answer questions that help us understand what you're saying and what your motivations are?

[saulres]

Did you read my posts? I explained it several times already.

Here.

That looks worthy of pursuit.

I'm voting him for the reason I stated.

I didn't say it was scummy, I said is was "worthy of pursuit". There's a difference.

I didn't see a reason to move it.

[saulres]

Which one? There are so many...

[saulres]

Yakko, you don't have to only place votes on someone you think is scum. You can place votes on someone who did something that might be scummy, to cause pressure. That's what I did. Then his reactions aren't impressing me, so I saw no reason to remove the vote. His constant question-dodging of not only me but starting with House is at best anti-town. I'm going to keep on putting the pressure at least until he answers my questions, unless something someone else does makes me want to move it.

shos, seriously dude, I don't know what's going on with you this game. I'm willing to let the early game trolling go because that's you, but then you continually are doing things that make no sense at all. You vote me for reasons which apply to someone else but not me, and now you're asking me where my question is in a post I provided as answers to a question asked of me. If you're town you really need to read the game.

House -- busy today, okay, but what about yesterday? You made a lot of posts elsewhere on site but not here. What happened?

[saulres]

Argh! Why do people keep asking me why I'm voting for McMenno?

House asks McMenno a question

McMenno dodges it

House calls him out on it

I realized I miss the callout and thinks McMenno deserves some pressure, SO I VOTE HIM TO APPLY THE PRESSURE

McMenno doesn't even come by the thread to discuss even though he is perfectly capable of doing so and then when he does come back continues to dodge the question.

McMenno continues to not answer and makes a comment that is meaningless so I ask him some more questions and he still doesn't respond, then he gives a bullshit reason for not responding.

And you ask what's anti-town? What the hell's pro-town in

anything

he's doing?

[saulres]

Y'know, if he'd just friggin' SAY that it was an RVS vote that would be fine. But please note he still didn't, all he did was quote the post again as though it should be obvious. It's like he thinks everyone should be able to read his mind.

Keep in mind too that I thought we were out of RVS at least two posts before he placed the vote you keep calling an RVS one. So clarification would be awesome, and that's what I was trying to get. But now that I've spelled it out it's too late, if he's scum he can just tailor the response to whatever he thinks will be least damaging to him.

Look also how he's answered my questions, but the answers still don't look good. We've got a repetition of something which still isn't clear (judging by the fact that we're still discussing it), and his reply to #1, well, look:

In 120 he unvotes MoP because "I feel like my vote on MoP is not productive". In 134 he said he unvoted MoP because he "began townreading MoP". When I asked him if those were equivalent statements he said no. But does he explain any more? No. That feels like scum who's not paying attention, came up with one reason, and then forgot the reason when he was asked about it later.

Now shos: When you put your vote on me, why did you pick me over House or Brantz? The reasons you provided, as I've said, didn't apply to me, but to Brantz.

[saulres]

I need to step away from this game for a little bit. Be back later.

[saulres]

see, that was a reaction test. your sig says that. you overreacted.

VOTE: House

oic what's going on now. shos STILL thinks we're in RVS

I want to see more from the people who have less posts than the mod. Will continue staying out of the thread through my weekly V/LA (see my sig) this afternoon through tomorrow night.

[saulres]

Seriously?

@Mod

: Can we please get prods on BRantz and Yakko? And in two hours, on Made With People?

I'm a bit surprised nobody followed me up on 150 Specifically Saul on my read.

I didn't respond because you didn't give anything to respond to. I asked for a read, you gave me irrelevant history, and then you said "I'll raise a read on him when I see something noteworthy that I'm certain of" so there was nothing to use.

Re: shos 215. Lemme get this straight. When someone gives a joking answer to you, they're throwing mud at you and scum? But when you do it it's okay?

[saulres]

I did see the V/LA post. It said 3 days. You were 2 hours from 3 days. I'm really anal about that (always have been) and I'm also agitated IRL and I really need to take a chill pill but I don't have any.

Shos, hate to break it to you, but you antagonized me when twice, you said you voted for me of everyone on the McMenno wagon, because I was in the 3rd position, and I pointed out to you both times that I wasn't, and you laughed it off. I would have expected you to move your vote to the person who

was

in 3rd if that was your only reason, and since you didn't give any others, I figured it had to be.

I'll be around Sunday but will reread on Monday to focus on what I can make of the House-shos back-and-forth. Try to determine if it's scum-town or town-town. Pretty sure it's not scum-scum.

[saulres]

@saulres why do you think people should be prodded right when their v/la ends? I think it's reasonable to only prod them a day after it has ended.

When someone says they're on V/LA, they say when they're expected to start posting again. That's been my experience, and that's what I hold people to when I mod.

Keep up the active lurking, though.

[saulres]

Then why aren't you voting him? Or, y'know,

anyone

? The only vote you ever made was against yourself, and then you pulled it back.

[saulres]

Taly also not voting.

Taly, can you please reconcile these two statements for me?

I am liking the McMenno push

and

I don't entirely understand the McMenno push,

[saulres]

Deadline: (expired on 2015-05-03 00:25:00)

Yeah so I'm going to in the middle of my weekly V/LA when this comes up. We've got until about (expired on 2015-05-01 17:48:06) until my vote is locked wherever it is if I did the math right.

[saulres]

volflare is town

shos,

What did Volflare do to make you so sure he was town at that point of the game?

[saulres]

Hey

McMenno

,

If you're town, you shouldn't only be concerned with your own survival. That's not the way to win the game. You should be trying to figure out who's scum. In-thread, not in-your-head.

[saulres]

There's a difference between posting and playing. That's what a lot of your case on McMenno is. Or have you forgotten that?

[saulres]

My point is that shos is trying to make it sound like the game is being abandoned, when that's not the case at all.

I see why he thinks you're demonizing all his posts.

I feel exactly the same way as shos. The game's been live for over a week and we still have THREE people with less posts than the mod. McMemmo has posts but minimal (if any) content. We have relatively little time yet and I see practically no scumhunting -- or townhunting -- from way more people than there are scum. That's not giving us a lot to work with on D2, depending on who gets lynched and what flip they produce.

Not exactly fond of how you say I gave you irrelevant history

Sorry, that's how I saw it. You gave history, but came to no conclusions from it. So you didn't have to post the history, you could have said, "My past experience with him doesn't give me enough to make a call on."

counterwagon shenanigans if he's scum??

It's actually the lack of a counterwagon that's bugging me. You'd think that if scum is being wagoned, they or their partner would be trying to set up a counterwagon. Closest thing I see to that is shos going to me, seeing minimal support, then going to House, but even that's a bit of a stretch. Something to keep in mind if McMenno flips scum though.

your vote is good tho. even though i'm unsure about how to feel him/his wagon

Hm, so Taly's vote on McMenno is good but Brantz's isn't?

[saulres]

Where you voted for him, with what looked like a reason of "not sold on mcmenno." If you meant something else, or had some other reason for voting him, please explain?

[saulres]

To clarify, I thought by "not sold on mcmenno" meant you didn't think mcmenno was scum, and you were picking the person you felt was scummiest on his wagon.

[saulres]

I tried doing the House-shos comparison I spoke about and double-ISOd them but came to no conclusion. Just as I thought "Oh that one's town" they'd say something scummy and when I thought "That one's scum" they'd say something townie. It'll be nice when they stop pissing on each other and look outside of them and McMenno.

I'm very null on MoP, but will try to ISO them -- and you -- tomorrow and see what conclusions I might come to. I'm tired and need to go to bed now.

[saulres]

Shos/ McMenno scum team 100%

Then why aren't you voting him? Or, y'know,

anyone

? The only vote you ever made was against yourself, and then you pulled it back.

Please note I asked that question before McMenno was at L-1. But I'd still like an answer.

---

How does anyone else feel about this claim?

I believe his claim. It's a cool, new role. But it's not one that would be required to be town. It also sounds like it's not usable until after the 1-shot is used, so N2 at the earliest, meaning he'd have to get a townread on someone who claims using a one-shot on N1, then both of them would have to survive to what could be LyLo, so in a game this size I'm not sure how useful it'd be. If I had that role I'd be trying even harder than I already am to get reads. McMenno continues to avoid doing so for inexplicable reasons. His behavior continues to be anti-town if not outright scummy.

shos, other than picking on you, what has House done that makes you feel he's scum?

[saulres]

I would have expected McMenno to claim an alignment along with his role

*blink*

*blink*

Um... What? Why? Isn't it obvious what alignment he'd claim?

[saulres]

Why are you avoiding my question?

[saulres]

It's a saying.

I really, REALLY want you to explain why you don't vote except for yourself and a hammer.

FoS

: vonflare

[saulres]

In what universe does 293-295 make sense coming from a scum team?

I'm not discounting the possibility that McMenno flips town.

[saulres]

I'm not. I'm hoping he is.

But you STILL haven't answered my question. You declared shos 100% scum and then didn't drop a vote on him. Why?

pedit: Working on it...

[saulres]

House, I completely misinterpreted what you said as referring to a scumteam of mcmenno and vonflare.

[saulres]

I have a day cop innocent on vonflare.

Just got the result.

You can ignore my 308.

LOL.

Also 308 isn't yours.

[saulres]

I took you for being smart enough to detect a typo.

I r disappoint.

I's rushing 'cause the thread might be locking soon. But I go now to meetings and stuff. Hopefully there'll be a flip when I get back.

pedit: Vonflare, McMenno didn't talk when it meant something to do so, why do you think he'd start now?

[saulres]

My day cop result was also fake.

I was trying to get vonflare targeted for NK for that shit hammer. I figured he was either scum or a detriment to town, and was hoping scum would take out the "confirmed townie" and save us the hassle of wasting a day trying to figure him out d2.

No duh it was a fake result. Mod wasn't even online.

And in what world would scum kill a cop inno over the cop himself?

[saulres]

For those of you who are around I need your top 2 scum reads that aren't me.

I'm struggling with whether to answer your question or not BRantz. For all I know, you're scum trying to use our scumreads to determine who to night kill. If that's the case I'd rather make you work for it. So I think I'm going to hold back.

[saulres]

They would kill whoever's scumreading them, or set up the WIFOM, or know who to target with their abilities for maximum carnage/confusion, etc.

If I knew he was town and what he'd do with the info, that's a different thing. But I can't afford the risk of blind-trusting him.

[saulres]

We have to lynch BOTH Vonflare and us. Not one. Both.

What are you talking about? Where are you getting that from? Clearly, today only votes for you or Vonflare count. There's still at most one lynch today. If you're both town, then we're in LyLo tomorrow.

I don't know why BRantz used this at all.

This I agree with though. Was he

that

certain of his reads? And the only person who answered his "2 scum" question was House, who picked other people. His thinking confuses the crap out of me.

If there is no majority at deadline, a no-lynch will occur.

@Mod

: Is this rule suspended today? What if everyone just refuses to vote?

[saulres]

The word both is key here. Look at the VC.

Well that's what I get for reading it when I first woke up. Looking forward to the mod's clarification.

[saulres]

No,

if

they're both town, there's not a guarantee that the scum will win. But both vonflare and MoP are going to die today no matter what. The question is, do we want to spend more time talking, or just cut to the chase and end the day.

I have only another hour and a half or so before my weekly V/LA and won't vote until after then, to hear what people think and give shos and Yakko chances to post.

[saulres]

Do we lynch one or rng? It sounds like those are the only two options.

Huh? Who's rng?

We don't have a choice. We either lynch both vonflare and MoP, or we don't do that by the time deadline hits and they get lynched anyway.

I would like MoP and von to offer us who they think are scum. That should give us something to work with tomorrow.

And no, massclaim is a bad, bad idea right now.

[saulres]

Read it again. "there is

only one

valid option which is

both

vonflare and Made of People"

Molla's saying that the way the role works, is no lynch decision is reached by deadline, then only the people/groups eligible for being voted would be used to make the random selection. If BRantz were still alive it would be random between BRantz and von/MoP. But with BRantz gone, the only option is von/MoP, so that's who would die.

[saulres]

HOW many pages in the day+ I was out? Where were you guys during the week?

Okay, catching up, but I'm going to edit as I go so as not to pull a shos.

I'm sincerely sorry, either/one/both of you are town.

If one's town and one's scum it's a good thing, so...

We can still use today to hunt other scum.

??? This sounds like you know there's one scum in there...

Are you a neg util role? why did you not say that? or where, if I missed it?

Huh? Where do you get that? I'm V/LA every Friday afternoon through Saturday night. It's in my sig and everything. Remind me post-game and I'll PM you about it.

HOW DID YOU ALL BELIEVE THE CLAIM AND DIDNT THINK ITS ALIGNEMTN IS TOWN

Because of this:

Made nine semi newish roles, made two of them randomly mafia.
Certain roles may or may not have been chosen to definitely be town.
if scum had a 1s role to be used, restocked N2 and used again - IT IS CALLED ODD-NIGHT ROLE.

I don't see what in that role requires it to be town. If one scum had that role and the other didn't, and the first scum got killed before N2, then it's not an odd-night role.

I'm an even night machine gun vig.

I can kill multiple targets, so give me your best freakin' reads.

Please forgive me for not believing this after the last time you fake-claimed.

Also WHY THE FUCK are people claiming? I already said it was a TERRIBLE time to do so!

Also, I don't know how to feel about massclaiming. Eh. :/ I feel like provided that town survives this day, then scum could really fuck with us using that knowledge.

EXACTLY! Don't give scum more information than they need. It's like getting to MyLo and talking instead of just voting No Lynch -- it

only

benefits the scum. (Unless of course there's a blatant scumslip to be pointed out.)

I'm pretty sold on Saul being town. so I have no qualms over shooting {me, yakko, Taly}.

WTF? You'd rather be shot than let me be shot? How does that come from -- ANY non-suicidal mindset? edit: Okay I see some responses but seriously it makes no sense.

So, what happened if we wait out the deadline?

This has been answered. You and MoP get lynched then.

at least tell us who you targeted.

Seriously, can you READ THE GAME? He answered this already.

Then there's a lot more than I have time to process, but skimming it says I don't have to process it until tomorrow if I'm still around to do so. So, since I wanted both vonflare and MoP to give reads and neither of them did, is there anything I missed where I can't hammer and end the day?

House, don't say you want me to give you targets -- I don't know your alignment and I'm going to fall back on what I said yesterday, it gives scum too much to work with if you're town and lying.

[saulres]

Taly, the thing about "read the game" is there are tools such as the ISO that make me ask the question. That link I put there? That came from using the ISO function on shos and searching for cop. It took hardly any time, and if you had done that it would have been one less thing to clutter the thread with. There's enough noise in this thread as is that additional unnecessary noise set me off. I apologize for screaming so much in my last post.

Now, no more info to the scum.

VOTE: Vonflare and Made of People

[saulres]

Got it. Caption on pic saying you're not sum is not a mod message LOL

[saulres]

Oh sorry. First time I tried posting from my phone. The key point is it's not a message from the mod, according to what you're saying. Of course we'll all have to judge the accuracy of that claim on our own.

[saulres]

Pablo Picasso Cop - During the Night, you may PM me the name of another player. You will receive a painting done by Pablo Picasso.

[saulres]

y u lie so much House?

Taly, I'm taking it that you did target shos with your ability. Did you get a confirmation when you targeted House N1?

I have the same question you do on shos. There's another version of the image I sent you with his text in red because he was my top scumread but I decided to make it neutral-colored because I realized we were going to be in MyLo, when we're

supposed

to No Lynch, and didn't want to give the scum any more information going into tonight.

I've got some stuff to think about here, I'll be back later. I'm hoping to find a breaking strategy.

[saulres]

I think you're town because of your role.

What's his role? I Friendly Neighbor-like ability only with the role instead of the alignment?

[saulres]

Actually, if your role is what you say it is, it's probably one of the best in the game. If you had claimed it D1 I can think of some scenarios where we could have combined our roles to be almost cop-like.

I'm a PoopCat. I send someone a picture during the night, they caption it, and it gets posted at the end of the day.

[saulres]

Taly, is English your first language?

[saulres]

I also got confirmation that my action got through to House on N1.

Interesting. Could you please clarify whether you actually got confirmation it got through, or just confirmation that the mod received your action?

For the letter "L", read it as though it has an English accent, and is missing the "Hel" before it. I realized I could make an entertaining play on words.

The reason I asked about your language is there are some things that don't always add up when I'm reading your posts, but it could just be dialect or word choice. I asked this time because this pinged me:

I was NEVER notified that my action got through, which tells me it probably never did because of being blocked, and

someone else killing shos

?

Could you just clarify please what you meant by that bolded part?

[saulres]

Okay. I think your N1 and N2 results were both intended to convey the same thing, and Molla just used a different word on N1 for some reason. My actions were "received" both times and both times they went through. You could check with him if you like.

I can explain why I sent the picture to shos N1 and to you N2 once I determine that we're not No Lynching today. Normally I'd say No Lynch in MyLo but I'm not sure that would gain us anything here. I'm still trying to work that out.

Thanks for the explanation, that's kind of what I was figuring, but it also looked like it might have been a scumslip: "I tried to kill shos but I was blocked, someone else must have killed him".

Really want to hear from Yakko, but I figure we're going to have to wait on that.

[saulres]

You should dissociate role claims from alignment. My role, for instance, is provable, but says absolutely nothing about my alignment.

Made nine semi newish roles, made two of them randomly mafia.
Certain roles may or may not have been chosen to definitely be town.
Mafia can use nightkill and action in the same night.

[saulres]

Did you expect shos to put the caption that he was scum - even if he was town?

Hell no. It's why he was my top scumread last night. I interpreted his choice of text as him thinking "Uh-oh, this may be some sort of Lie Detector. I better put in something that I can pass off as trolling but won't catch me." I could find no town motivation for the caption he chose. I was quite surprised to find that he was just trolling again

[saulres]

Spoiler: Agreed

No way he'll be back around 11.

[saulres]

Hey BRantz! Can you give us another chance to lynch two people today? That would be great tia.

[saulres]

VOTE: No Lynch

House, if you're saying the truth about your ability

this

time , don't target anyone tonight.

[saulres]

MyLo is a time for No Lynch. I'm torn on my call on who's scum and would like to either gain clarity by hopefully seeing one of them die tonight, or die myself and not leave the choice in my hands.

[saulres]

Players may vote for No Lynch. A No Lynch will be hammered at half of living players, not half-plus-one.

So only 2 votes.

I want to lynch 2 people because I have a townread on one of you three, so I figure if that one and I lynch the other two we'll win.

I'm not sure why my pic's making you paranoid. I tried to convey being confused as all hell last night in it...

[saulres]

I have a colorized version where the text near shos is in red which is what I was going to send in case I was killed last night; that would allow me to give my read even after I died. But I didn't send that version because I didn't want to give him that information if I was alive today. All moot now that he flipped town.

[saulres]

Why do you think it's making me paranoid?

...

READ THE GAME

because the pic he sent me is making me paranoid as fuck.

And we know there's only 1 scum left because the mod said so. I've already quoted it once and don't want to do again.

[saulres]

Reading again, I think I once again might have misconstrued what you said...

[saulres]

I'll talk to you post-game about it, k?

[saulres]

No, no hurt feelings at all. It's a game.

English is my first language, yes, it just seems to be different from (than? I always get those confused) the English used by you LOL

[saulres]

The point of No Lynching is to not give scum any more information. What motivation do you have for giving them the information? Or is it that you're looking for the information?

there's a possibility that Yakko is a scum Vig with the ability to make 2 kills,

Yeah, because all the other roles are massively overpowered and broken. I'll take my chances.

[saulres]

UNVOTE: No Lynch

Okay I forgot I'm only 2-shot. I thought I could send my reads and arguments to my townread tonight in case I was killed so they could use it tomorrow. Now I have to think.

[saulres]

Made of people seems town to me.

Yakko, why did you say this when you did?

[saulres]

His questions are surface level, he has zero interest in actually finding scum.

And that worked so well with McMenno. Lurking <> scum. Lurking should be a policy lynch because of exactly what it's doing here.

[saulres]

You brought attention to his "20 posts. All twenty". That's lurking.

McMenno had no interest in actually finding scum either.

I see parallels in their play this game.

[saulres]

Just in case I don't post again before my weekly V/LA, I don't want to get dinged for a prod, and I'll be able to check in again before this time in 48 hours, although won't have much time probably on Sunday because it's Mother's Day.

[saulres]

Yakko, you had just better do some scumhunting when you get back to the thread is all I'm gonna say. We can't get a lynch today without three votes, so if you're not hunting, how do you expect to get one?

[saulres]

WTF? Where's Yakko? Where's his prod?

@Mod

: Please prod Yakko again.

You completely ignored the part you quoted and interjected some meaningless remark about something that, by your own admission, doesn't really matter.

I'm sorry, I've read this a few times and I just don't understand what you're getting at. Could you please explain better?

Saul, how do you forget your a 2-shot? o_o....

I haven't played an x-shot before, and my role seemed really not useful when I first opened it (other than to confirm me as not visiting the NK if there were any trackers and I targeted someone else) so I didn't pay attention to it being limited. I spent a

ton

of time trying to figure out how to best use it if we No Lynched, and I asked the mod a question about it and he said "You're out of shots" and I faceplanted and LOLed.

I will answer your other questions after we hear from Yakko.

[saulres]

Yakko has been prodded.

Mod

Could you also maybe line up a replacement in case he doesn't come back? It's almost 4 days since he last posted.

[saulres]

Sigh.

@Mod

: Please prod House.

And Yakko is now at 4 days...

[saulres]

Double post.



C'mon, Yakko, come back to the thread so we can get this game moving again.

[saulres]

@Mod

: Can we get that replacement for Yakko now? It's been (a little) over 48 hours since the prod, but we've been waiting for him since the day started almost a week ago.

Maybe an extension, too, since we're in MyLo and have had a missing slot for half of the day?

[saulres]

We're in MyLo. Your slot is under heavy suspicion for being scum. Your claiming it is not doing your slot any favors.

House claims you're scum and is voting for you. Tally is on the verge of voting for you. I would like your slot to do some scumhunting because I'm not convinced your slot is scum and I'd like to see if you see the same thing in one of the other two that I do.

[saulres]

Um, Yakko did say he used both of them up.

Why we're not No Lynching is an excellent question. I tried to, but neither House nor Taly supported it. I figured since they can't both be scum, there's a reason the other townie didn't want to No Lynch so I was going to respect that. That's why I unvoted it, I didn't want Yakko coming in and hammering it before whoever wanted to do what they wanted to do did it.

I'm still waiting I guess.

(Also I was trying to figure out how to use my ability to determine for sure who was scum but I forgot it was 2-shot so joke's on me.)

[saulres]

Oh sure. I vote No Lynch, day keeps going. The guy you both scumread votes No Lynch, you consider it and do it.

I'll remind everyone that depending on when today Molla locks the thread, I'll either be close to or in my weekly V/LA when it unlocks, if I'm still alive.

[saulres]

...

You do realize that there was no need for a third vote, and that House hammered with his, yes?

[saulres]

READ THE GAME

Players may vote for No Lynch. A No Lynch will be hammered at half of living players, not half-plus-one.

So only 2 votes.

[saulres]

Scared of saying too much until I hear from sns. Gotta have some good content there too.

I also asked the mod why my picture wasn't posted with Taly's caption. That should have happened after the No Lynch went through.

[saulres]

I want to see if he comments on something that I don't really want to post at this point because that would just tell him what to say if he is scum and make it meaningless.

[saulres]

Proving I'm town. I have time for a post like this but not for all the other things I want to say until tomorrow.

[saulres]

I can read but, I mean, what are you waiting on me for? I'm conftown now; it's your job to convince me that Taly is scum and you aren't.

As I said above: My making comments just tells scum what to say. I have things I want to look at that I can't here, and I really hate that you can't answer of the questions I put to Yakko, so that just sucks.

I will ask why you're not voting for Taly, that's just standard play in LyLo. Let's say I decide he's scum, do you want to hammer for some reason?

[saulres]

Taly, other than the SK game you referenced earlier, do you have a completed (or finished, whatever, I always get those mixed up) scum game of yours I could look at?

[saulres]

Hey where'd my post go? I had a medium-length post and it's gone. Dammit.

I don't want to figure it out again. Basic gist was I'm going to be looking at stuff today when I get some downtime at work and I'm sorry for sns he replaced into such a horrible slot no matter what his alignment. And I'm hoping if sns is town that he can find an actual scumslip on Taly's part or can convince me that Taly's interactions with MoP point to Talyscum more than Yakko's interactions point to Yakkoscum because right now it doesn't look good for sns at all.

[saulres]

I don't want to drag this out. sns's next post will determine if I hammer him or if he finds one of those things I'm looking for and it gives me fuel to turn my suspicion around.

[saulres]

Sorry sns.

[saulres]

I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm not as good as I used to be. I think I lost my confidence after the Pet game.

I also don't want to fuck it up, but I feel I will no matter what I do. I think the things I wrote in the post I lost explain a bunch.

So, the problem is, the things you see as scummy are how Taly's been all game. Search the thread for "read the game" and you'll see. But my meta search of him shows that's kind of how he is. I don't find scum in that, I find it a playstyle.

But if you want me to, I'll put together the case I have for Yakko being scum and Taly being not. I will say that there were a

lot

of things which I thought point to one slot, and then the other, and then said "It could be either of these and I have no way of knowing", such as why shos was killed N2 -- I can come up with reasons for anybody having done that.

A lot of my reasoning comes from what I see as the MoP interactions with the two slots, as well as what I've felt from other things. I'll get the quotes for the MoP interactions in a minute here and highlight the pertinent parts. The "other things" are mostly "Yakko was getting townreads from out of nowhere, while Taly was hesitant". Yes, I know scum can be hesitant to keep their options open, so again I come back to Yakko saying --

Oh, you've posted again, I see that when I go to get his quote. Let me read.

Okay, the thing about him associating role with alignment? I don't see that as scum, I see that as obtuseness. I don't think it's calculated, you have to present it that way whether you're town and you do or you're scum and you want to present it that way.

Where was I? Oh yes. Yakko.

Hello peeps. I read through and nothing stuck out except some meta stuff? Idk the whole fluff vs trolling thing very minuscule and trivial. Shos no clue what to think of them.

Made of people seems town to me.

The good cop seems easy enough to read imho. House is an enigma to me. umm Von flare don't like the self vote and definitely dislike a lot the Unvote immidiately after. though the self vote was looking for scum on their part. It makes me think them town for now. That's all I recall will read through again tho.

The vonflare townread there is bizarre to me. The MoP one makes

no

sense, because MoP didn't say anything game-related at all before then. There's

nothing

to get a townread on them from by that post and yet Yakko had it. Can you explain what might be in MoP's posts before 84 that would give

anyone

a town read on them? I'd love it if you could. And then 87 is just incredibly uncomfortable. So that just stands out to me more than Taly's "genuine" comments.

[saulres]

Spoiler: This is what I mean by obtuseness

I would have expected McMenno to claim an alignment along with his role

*blink*

*blink*

Um... What? Why? Isn't it obvious what alignment he'd claim?

You should dissociate role claims from alignment. My role, for instance, is provable, but says absolutely nothing about my alignment.

Made nine semi newish roles, made two of them randomly mafia.
Certain roles may or may not have been chosen to definitely be town.
Mafia can use nightkill and action in the same night.

at least tell us who you targeted.

Seriously, can you READ THE GAME? He answered this already.

And we know there's only 1 scum left because the mod said so. I've already quoted it once and don't want to do again.

READ THE GAME

Players may vote for No Lynch. A No Lynch will be hammered at half of living players, not half-plus-one.

So only 2 votes.

I think there were more but you get the idea. All of these were directed at Taly.

But I'm back to having patience. It's hard for me. So I would now like Taly to come in and explain to me why he didn't seem to be reading the game, without it going back into a rant. The evidence is in my spoiler, Taly, and that's just me. can you please explain what was going on?

pedit: Right, I know you know MoP's not town but that highlighted bit? That struck me as odd when I lived through it, before MoP's alignment was revealed. I'm asking you to look at the content of MoP's posts objectively and see if there's anything in there that's alignment-telling to the point that someone

could

have gotten a townread off of them.

I said it before, and I'll probably say it again -- it

sucks

that Yakko disappeared and isn't here to explain his thinking. Because this: "Every time he posted it looked like he randomly read a few posts and made up reads based on nothing" is pretty much the description of what scum often do; they have to make up reads because they already have all of them.

[saulres]

That's really why I was thinking of it dragging out -- because I've been thinking about the interactions with MoP ever since yesterday began in game, and that's a long time... I realize it doesn't seem that way to you because you're fresh to the game. I've just been obsessing about it for

far

too long...

[saulres]

I'll tell you something else that's not going to help. When I played Animal Rescue, I was sure that KK was the last non-town, but I let him talk me out of it in LyLo and town lost because of that. I still bear that scar until today and I don't want it to happen again. Yesterday I had my pecking order. From town to scum it was Taly, Yakko, House. (Yes, House, I thought you were scum because of several things I can go into post-game, and scum made a big mistake killing you last night because I can't see any scenario where I

wouldn't

have voted you and given them the win.) So sns, if you're town, you're not only fighting what Yakko set you up with, you're fighting something you can't control at all.

I really wish I were killed last night. I still can't figure out why I wasn't.

No worries about me hammering today, I'm in a weird place in my head (not game-related) and I'm not going to end the game when I'm feeling this way.

[saulres]

Why the fuck would I target you to see my role.

I really don't understand why you picked him to see the role, instead of me. Can you explain your thinking there?

[saulres]

House ROLESTOPPED ME. My role and abilities were completely ineffective.

...

Here we go again. That's not how House's ability works!

Please

read the game!

For confirmation, there is a game where it got me mislynched in D1. It's currently on-going, but you can look at my wiki and see it - it's updated to it saying my status is: "Sadly Dead" >>> There's only 2 options.

Don't talk about ongoing games. At all. Don't put it in your wiki until the game's over. This is like the #1 most stringent rule on this site.

[saulres]

House targeted you. His ability blocks not the person who he targeted, but who his target targeted. You say you targeted shos, therefore

shos

is the one who was blocked on the night he was killed.

So he could, potentially, have blocked a kill, if he targeted someone who targeted the killer. So yes, he could potentially have caused scum to not make a kill.

Saying you're town means nothing, because both you and sns will say that. One of you is lying, so that's not something that can ever be believed. Simple as that.

House's ability at

no point

make

your

"abilities" ineffective.

I am now VERY interested in why you, a writer, chose the plural for that noun.

pedit: This was directed at Taly's 677.

[saulres]

Okay, Taly: Your ability was confirmed as soon as House confirmed receiving it and MoP flipped scum. That meant that you and House weren't both scum, so at least one of you was telling the truth about your ability. At that point it was confirmed, continuing to use it meant nothing because

Nosy Neighbor is not alignment-indicative at all

. See I can use different fonts too, to hopefully drive this through so you stop saying it is.

I did a check and you used "abilities" throughout the thread to refer to the singular so that line fell dead.

Yes, I think it's

possible

that you targeted shos with your ability and killed him at the same time. That would certainly cover your reason for visiting him if there were any trackers.

sns is correct, your posts

are

a mess. You keep harping on the same thing which means nothing at all. Hopefully after the game has been over a while you can look back and see how it's coming off.

I will look again, later or tomorrow, and what arguments you may have that don't involve your Nosy Neighbor role.

[saulres]

House didn't target anyone, he was out of shots. Unless he lied about using them on other nights. With House, who knows?

[saulres]

Oop, no, I'm wrong! He said he didn't use his ability on N1. Meaning he still had a shot (unless, again, he was lying). Gotta ask the mod something.

[saulres]

Posting too quickly. I had said I was out of shots, so he would have had to target either you or Taly. Given he thought you were scum, he would have targeted Taly in the hopes Taly targeted you.

BUT -- that's all speculation. He may not have used his ability at all last night. He left no clues as to whether he did or not.

[saulres]

I still wanna know why Taly didn't send me his role

[saulres]

He could have role-stopped me - right?

Sigh. No, wrong. Read the first line of 680 again.

He already role-stopped me N2

Why do you think your ability was stopped on N2?

[saulres]

Why do you think your ability was stopped on N2?

Taly, I don't think I saw an answer to this when I skimmed.

I'll be looking in more detail tomorrow I hope. I'm fried for tonight.

[saulres]

You can also look at my SK game to see Sns' scum play, and how his arguments resemble how he treats mine here.

LOL you want me to look at a game where he was legitimately trying to find scum and was treating you, scum in that game, the same way he's acting here? (I've played scum in multiball and scumhunting is real when you're actually trying to find someone else who's killing town...)

I'll be trying to look at those meta games today but with your self-confessed "I have no scum games other than an SK game" I don't know how much weight I'll put into them.

The more you say "Yakko/Sns slot is scum, Saul. This isn't speculation, it is fact", the more frustrated I'm getting with you. You need to realize that

I don't have your role PM

. From my POV, you could be lying. If you can't see that...

Also, yes, Yakko claimed a role that can kill. You know who else does that? Town vigs and vengefuls. They have roles that kill, that doesn't make them scum.

You know who claims roles that kill when he's town? House, apparently. In this game. So please stop saying things that are irrelevant. It's just making this harder for me, and no matter what your alignment, you

don't

want me thinking you're saying these things just to make my decision harder.

[saulres]

At what point? Sorry, I'm very focused on something else right now.

[saulres]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=60920 >> Game where I fly off the rails

I've tried to find you flying off the rails there the same way you did here, but I can't. Could you please point me to the specific post(s)?

[saulres]

Okay I'm done with my research and I don't think anything's going to change my mind.

If town loses the game on this vote, it's not because Taly convinced me his town, it's because I can't find anything that's a solid scumtell on him. I ISOed sns and while he put up a valiant effort, he came into a slot that I had at least two scumtells on, and he didn't really do anything alignment-indicative to change my mind. I did look at his case post in detail but the only thing I really saw were claims that Taly played the same questionable way he did all game and in several of the other games of Taly's I looked at, and the other things could be real and I saw them differently, or could be scum grasping for something that he knows isn't right. Also a lot of confirmation bias since he

had

to present Taly as scum no matter what his alignment was. And I have my own issues I mentioned already. But like I said, it was a good try no matter what alignment he is and I appreciate it. But I'm done now.

VOTE: sns

[saulres]

FTR I was painfully reminded during the game why I stopped playing, so it's going to be a while before I take up another one. Thanks anyway Molla!

[saulres]

Well if you're scum it's okay, you were supposed to. But if that's the case, no one should ever let this -- "obtuse" play act -- slide in your future games.

Don't tell me, I think we should wait for Molla. There could still be aspects of roles which mean the game isn't actually over yet.

[saulres]

GG.

Calling it "good" is actually really generous of you

[saulres]

Well how about that.

It really was a valiant effort, sns. But you were screwed even before you came into the game.

[saulres]

Dead and scum threads?

Only problems with the setup I saw, Molla, were that the Kidnapper role really needed to be town to be effective, and the restocker isn't really effective in such a small game. I do like that restocker role though.

[saulres]

Nah, you weren't really ever in danger. I was looking my hardest to find something, because I feel that's required of me, but some of the things you did in earlier game were townie to me. Or at least more townie than the scummy things Yakko did.

sns's mistake, I think, was in killing House instead of you. I could have easily been convinced that House was scum. That's why yesterday I was trying to make it look like I thought you were the scum, to throw off the actual scum.

sns

, I'm curious if that worked. Who did you think I thought was scum when you made your night kill?

pedit: I asked the mod, if House had targeted Taly last night, your kill would have been blocked. But it looks like House didn't do anything, so once again...

I didn't mention the townie interactions between MoP and Taly because I saw them and while they looked likely townie, I saw no reason to try to bring them to your attention. There

were

things I didn't say because really there was no point to; I didn't need to convince anybody other than myself.

[saulres]

i would think saulres is a good kill because he's smart

<3

[saulres]

a long with everytime Saul told me to "read the game" instead of looking entirely at what I was trying to tell him.

What I still don't understand is: WHY did you think your role said anything about your alignment,

especially

after I pointed out that the roles were randomized against alignment? That's what was most infuriating to me, you kept coming back to that but it wasn't true.

[saulres]

Yay, it worked! Molla can confirm if you want, I have a private QT and some PMs which I shared with him (which I want to remain private) where I said my plan:

Pretty sure House is the remaining scum.

I'm trying to make it look like I think he's town. Doubt I'll succeed, and most likely I'll be killed tonight, but I still plan to get a picture to Taly telling him I think House is scum.

To your point 1, I think everyone was townreading

me

which is why I was surprised I was alive on the last day.

Taly, I did entertain the possibility that you were scum with a 2-shot ability who wanted to try to get House to use it to your advantage, so the night that shos died you killed him and

didn't

send him your role, as he wouldn't be around to tell people he didn't get it.

But then I thought the more likely possibility was shos was killed because he was

some

kind of cop. The point is, though, that just because you said it, doesn't make it true to other people, no matter how often you repeat it.

[saulres]

I thought it was pretty cool, and a nice description that I didn't even think about when creating it.

Then I wanted a deck of those cards so I could pin them to a billboard like in the crime shows.

[saulres]

I just get really fired up when I get lynched or dismissed when people don't really believe what I say.

IMO, you should try to control that. Because scum lie, so not believing everything someone says is part and parcel of this game.

[saulres]

We can thank BRantz for us surviving, I think. He forced lynches D2 which I'm not convinced would have happened if he hadn't. Might've policy lynched Tally though...

I do think BRantz's move was good for town overall though. I'll trade 2 town for 1 scum any early game.