Paradise Lost - [Game Over]

[Katsuki]

i'm not sure if you explained it already, but would you mind explaining why you want to turbo lynch aa?

because hes scum

How do you know she's scum...
This is just nonsensical
Has ArcAngel insulted you in the past or something? Do you actually have any sort of legitimate reason for trying to get her lynched?

His play is scummy.

How is it nonsensical?

What makes you think I have no legitimate reasons?

Lastly, how is my play "pro-scum" thus far?

All in all...

[Elbirn]

Scum reading elb currently. Comes across as uncertain compared to the last game we played together he pushed what he felt.

Scumreading Elbirn is a towntell.

Also could someone please explain to me what's the deal with Elbirn? i don't see why he's being wagonedm he asked what was the problem was with mollie's replace out and got his question answered so he decided to follow suit, am i missing something super obvious or what.

Defending Elbirn is a scumtell.

Because you're scummy?
Are you actually for real or is this a joke?

Not really, it was a sunday and I didn't have much time, so I went for a quickshitpost with intent to elaborate later.

1. So Far and I played a game together recently. In that game, by the time we hit Day 2 I had a hypothetical scum team in mind and I pretty much tunnelled them to death, threw theatrics and nonsense everywhere and confidently asserted my own rightness all the live long day. I was Vanilla town in that game. Far was also town, and was one of the two people that I harped on all day, so she's personally familiar with being on the receiving end of that. In my defense the other person WAS scum (which I only figured out having just played with that person as scum) and Far was totally scummy. But that's where the "confidence" came from. Here, it's Day 1 and I have no idea, no information and no meta on anyone but her.

Why I like what Far has said in regards to me this game: I like that she is using our previous game to get a read on me. She's analyzing my behavior and what she would expect my behavior to be if I were town. My gut says this is Town-far using past experience to sort me, rather than scum-far trying to push a mislynch.

Why she's wrong: This is an entirely different scenario; we are 3 rl days into this game, and I have no information to go off of yet. When I think I've

definitely

nailed scum, you will all hear about it. Over and over and over again. And when no one listens to me, I will throw temper tantrums until someone does.

2. People who defend me have a tendency to flip scum. Scum have buddied my ass right into a win more than once, so I call it out when I see it. Hell I call it out when I see even the vaguest hint of it happening. I'm also just generally wary of anyone who defends anyone else rather than letting them speak for themselves. Sakura does in fact get scum points for questioning my wagon.

[Sakura Hana]

Scum reading elb currently. Comes across as uncertain compared to the last game we played together he pushed what he felt.

Scumreading Elbirn is a towntell.

Also could someone please explain to me what's the deal with Elbirn? i don't see why he's being wagonedm he asked what was the problem was with mollie's replace out and got his question answered so he decided to follow suit, am i missing something super obvious or what.

Defending Elbirn is a scumtell.

Because you're scummy?
Are you actually for real or is this a joke?

Not really, it was a sunday and I didn't have much time, so I went for a quickshitpost with intent to elaborate later.

1. So Far and I played a game together recently. In that game, by the time we hit Day 2 I had a hypothetical scum team in mind and I pretty much tunnelled them to death, threw theatrics and nonsense everywhere and confidently asserted my own rightness all the live long day. I was Vanilla town in that game. Far was also town, and was one of the two people that I harped on all day, so she's personally familiar with being on the receiving end of that. In my defense the other person WAS scum (which I only figured out having just played with that person as scum) and Far was totally scummy. But that's where the "confidence" came from. Here, it's Day 1 and I have no idea, no information and no meta on anyone but her.

Why I like what Far has said in regards to me this game: I like that she is using our previous game to get a read on me. She's analyzing my behavior and what she would expect my behavior to be if I were town. My gut says this is Town-far using past experience to sort me, rather than scum-far trying to push a mislynch.

Why she's wrong: This is an entirely different scenario; we are 3 rl days into this game, and I have no information to go off of yet. When I think I've

definitely

nailed scum, you will all hear about it. Over and over and over again. And when no one listens to me, I will throw temper tantrums until someone does.

2. People who defend me have a tendency to flip scum. Scum have buddied my ass right into a win more than once, so I call it out when I see it. Hell I call it out when I see even the vaguest hint of it happening. I'm also just generally wary of anyone who defends anyone else rather than letting them speak for themselves. Sakura does in fact get scum points for questioning my wagon.

First of all: I'm not defending you, I was asking "what the case on you is", that's not defending, I had a null read on you until this post because I went and read that game, and to my surprise mollie was in that game, which is funny since that's the person you were asking about at the beginning of the day. Their hydra was in fact liking your slot at the start of the game around Post 119, and let's see what they flipped:

Valkyrie Mollie, Borogove, Vanilla Town, survived.

Now here's another fun fact from that game:

So Tier what is your case against Elbirn?

BRantz, Mome Rath, Vanilla Town, lynched Day 1.

So hey, someone also asked about the case on you and they flipped town 2/2 townies "Defending you" since apparently asking what's the case on you is defending you.

To TSO. you said nothing but good things about me, then threw it out the windown with "elbirn trys Too hard to be town"? Literally what? If you read any of my games

you'd see I play this way every game.

The bolded from that game doesnt really mesh well with what you just stated, in your post, in addition:

I am saying the playstyle you use is easy to townread

Was directed at you, in which case, why do you find it a scumtell for people defending you?, it doesnt make any sense, while he wasnt exactly townreading you, he said your playstyle was "Easy to townread" so walk me through why you'd think town wouldn't defend you then? Oh right, they would.

Elbirn - Town read, asking good questions.

Witness Protection, Nameless Hero, Town Sword-Holder, survived.

3/3 so far, where's the scum Townreading/Defending you.
With at least these 3 townies townreading you/defending you, I'm surprised you didn't push them at all on that game because apparently defending you is a scumtell, which makes me believe you're full of BS, other things to note since i went and meta dive you from that game:
- You were asking questions and aggresively interacting with people, I don't see the same thing happening here.
- You went and at least read your scumspect's meta of at least 1 game, to notice that he was probably town and defend it, You had 1 game with mollie and didn't even analyze their meta or checked another game to confirm what farside and Equinox had mentioned here.
- You are being very passive in here because apparently you don't have any scumreads, but there you kept your vote on someone at least during D1, even if it was your RVS vote, here you removed your vote when you got attacked and haven't placed it anywhere.

For all these reasons I think you're scum this game:

Unvote
Vote: Elbirn

[Sakura Hana]

and haven't placed it anywhere.

Actually you did place it on lufan, but i don't see you "throwing tantrums and what nots" to get others to follow you.

[Elbirn]

@277

Spoiler: mfw

In this post, townreading, agreeing with a point, and buddying/defending are all the same thing. lolokay.

Alright, let's break this down point by point then.

1.

Their hydra was in fact liking your slot at the start of the game around Post 119, and let's see what they flipped:

Valkyrie Mollie, Borogove, Vanilla Town, survived.

Townreads are not buddying.

2.

Now here's another fun fact from that game:

So Tier what is your case against Elbirn?

BRantz, Mome Rath, Vanilla Town, lynched Day 1.

Did you miss the part where I was on BRantz lynch wagon and already had him as scum at this point for other reasons?

3.

To TSO. you said nothing but good things about me, then threw it out the windown with "elbirn trys Too hard to be town"? Literally what? If you read any of my games

you'd see I play this way every game.

The bolded from that game doesnt really mesh well with what you just stated, in your post, in addition:

I am saying the playstyle you use is easy to townread

Was directed at you, in which case, why do you find it a scumtell for people defending you?, it doesnt make any sense, while he wasnt exactly townreading you, he said your playstyle was "Easy to townread" so walk me through why you'd think town wouldn't defend you then? Oh right, they would.

My "I play this way every game" bit, and the comment of TSO regarding it, is a reference to my own activity level. I.E. I'm very active. I.E., I am a "Tryhard". Activity level can fluctuate and doesn't really reflect alignment imo; that's an assertion that HE made, when HE said that I am "Easy to townread". So why are you judging my own thoughts/opinions based on someone else's thought/opinion? That does not make any amount of sense.

4.

Elbirn - Town read, asking good questions.

Witness Protection, Nameless Hero, Town Sword-Holder, survived.

Townreads are not buddying.

5.

3/3 so far, where's the scum Townreading/Defending you.

Ooooo, ya got me. I was townread by town, so logically I should not actually believe that scumbuddying happens.

Oh. Wait. That doesn't make any fucking sense.

6.

With at least these 3 townies townreading you/defending you, I'm surprised you didn't push them at all on that game because apparently defending you is a scumtell, which makes me believe you're full of BS

While you're reading through my games, why don't you go read Mini 1642 where scum buttbuddied me to win the game. Maybe I actually really

am

wary of buddying and avoid it like the plague, instead of just making up that I believe that for...God knows what indiscernible reason?

7.

You went and at least read your scumspect's meta of at least 1 game, to notice that he was probably town and defend it, You had 1 game with mollie and didn't even analyze their meta or checked another game to confirm what farside and Equinox had mentioned here.

Muh burden of efficiency.
I should have checked another game to ensure that Mollie actually doesn't like being scum, or that she really has had a lull in activity on site? Gee, it's almost as if I took their comments at face value because I didn't expect someone to blatantly lie about something that could very easily be doublechecked. Outrageous!

Also, You read the game, so you know that I didn't actually give enough of a damn to metadive. I just so happened to have been reading a game that he was playing in, due to other reasons. I didn't go out of my way to find a reason to townread him.

8.

- You are being very passive in here because apparently you don't have any scumreads, but there you kept your vote on someone at least during D1, even if it was your RVS vote, here you removed your vote when you got attacked and haven't placed it anywhere.

I didn't have any scumreads after a mere 3 days, and my RVS vote was removed, so I'm scum.

Okay.

and haven't placed it anywhere.

Actually you did place it on lufan, but i don't see you "throwing tantrums and what nots" to get others to follow you.

Aww I'm sorry, I mean...I *guess* I can push on your scum buddy a little bit harder if it'll make you happy? Maybe you two should talk in the scum PT first though, make sure it's okay with him too. I don't wanna overwhelm the little guy, he's cracking under what little pressure there is anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

Townreads are not buddying.

They are definitively akin to buddying

Did you miss the part where I was on BRantz lynch wagon and already had him as scum at this point for other reasons?

I know you were in his wagon, but apparently town has asked for a case on you, So why is it that when someone asks for a case on you they are scum if you have experiencial evidence of it happening before?

My "I play this way every game" bit, and the comment of TSO regarding it, is a reference to my own activity level. I.E. I'm very active. I.E., I am a "Tryhard". Activity level can fluctuate and doesn't really reflect alignment imo; that's an assertion that HE made, when HE said that I am "Easy to townread". So why are you judging my own thoughts/opinions based on someone else's thought/opinion? That does not make any amount of sense.

If he made that ascertion and he was town, why is it so hard to believe that someone else can make that ascertion and be town as well? While i'm also wary about buddying, but you decided to push a fact that 1) Wasn't true and 2) Was based on an incorrect assumption, that should've known it is incorrect based on personal experience, again.

Townreads are not buddying.

They are definitively akin to buddying

Ooooo, ya got me. I was townread by town, so logically I should not actually believe that scumbuddying happens.

Oh. Wait. That doesn't make any fucking sense.

But you said, that defending you is a scumtell so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

While you're reading through my games, why don't you go read Mini 1642 where scum buttbuddied me to win the game. Maybe I actually really am wary of buddying and avoid it like the plague, instead of just making up that I believe that for...God knows what indiscernible reason?

If you fell to buddying that was your goddamn fault, so It was mine back in the couple of games where scum did it to me, it is still a bad reasonign to scumread anyone that defends you (And i wasn't even defending you)

Muh burden of efficiency.
I should have checked another game to ensure that Mollie actually doesn't like being scum, or that she really has had a lull in activity on site? Gee, it's almost as if I took their comments at face value because I didn't expect someone to blatantly lie about something that could very easily be doublechecked. Outrageous!

Also, You read the game, so you know that I didn't actually give enough of a damn to metadive. I just so happened to have been reading a game that he was playing in, due to other reasons. I didn't go out of my way to find a reason to townread him.

Ok this one's a fair point, but still if you've played with her before you'd at least have some personal experience to comparing a scum game of hers, it doesn't matter anyway since you admitted to take their comments at their face value.

I didn't have any scumreads after a mere 3 days, and my RVS vote was removed, so I'm scum.

Okay.

You didnt have your vote on anyone for like a a bunch of posts, you aren't being as aggresive as you were in that game, and your excuse was "I have no scumreads", having no scumreads isn't inherently scummy, but the way you've played here is definitively different than in that game.

Aww I'm sorry, I mean...I *guess* I can push on your scum buddy a little bit harder if it'll make you happy? Maybe you two should talk in the scum PT first though, make sure it's okay with him too. I don't wanna overwhelm the little guy, he's cracking under what little pressure there is anyway.

You can vote him for all i care, that's not gonna change my read on you.

[Katsuki]

Hey RC if you still don't see what I mean by MOI impersonators then I don't think you ever will.

[RedCoyote]

No, I don't, and I played several games with him. I'm just assuming you mean like overbearing arrogance. Then again, I don't know what you're trying to do 95% of the time and always assuming you're biding your time until you can start a wagon on me. ^_^;;

[RedCoyote]

Raise your hand if you're going to just nod your head and pretend you read all that back and forth between Sakura and Elbrin.

[RedCoyote]

People I'd Like To Lynch List

• lufan131
• massive

Wow, this looks official. So why is it that you'd like to lynch massive? You didn't mention a scumread on him at all.

It was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I do not like his iso at all, especially his lame sheeping of farside.

---

Because I at least trust you to have been following the game completely.

Does that mean she's town?

[Katsuki]

No, I don't, and I played several games with him. I'm just assuming you mean like overbearing arrogance. Then again, I don't know what you're trying to do 95% of the time and always assuming you're biding your time until you can start a wagon on me. ^_^;;

There's an over-abundance of quote-walling.

You're lucky that I won't have a chance to run a wagon on you this game. What a pity.

[lalaladucks]

How is it nonsensical?

I struggled to make sense of what you were saying.

What makes you think I have no legitimate reasons?

Well you didn't state any, it just looked completely random.

Lastly, how is my play "pro-scum" thus far?

Encouraging confusion and discord and rather than trying to sort things out...

I wish I was that hedgehog.

[Equinox]

This is happening! I am also 7+5 pages behind, so please excuse the wall of quotes.

I'm a little annoyed that ArcAngel9 seemed to skim the thread for references to ArcAngel9, yet ArcAngel9 missed my question in post 110.

Elbirn, it seems from post 279 that you are reading Sakura Hana as scum. If that's the case, do you think the motivation to go through someone's old games would be more likely to come from scum, more likely to come from town, or neither (please specify)? Why?

Sakura Hana, what do you think Elbirn's motivation would be for lying about his history with buddying?

As pointed out by everyone else, this isn't really the best idea. But I feel like this was put out there with good intentions, and on a surface level it makes sense; we lose if we get sin, so let's ensure that we can't get sin. Leaning town on Gaiden.

What makes you feel that SXTLHGaiden was pushing his plan with "good intentions"?

Okay, I've digressed a bit but that's my opinion of the wagon. It gained momentum very quickly, before Glass even posted at all. Some very interesting and noteable participation...

Well, Equinox asked me what I thought of the Glass wagon; I believe I conveyed what I was thinking with that post. I wasn't actually asked for analysis. Tere did say it was "a decent attempt at wagon analysis" - which actually implies it wasn't analysis, merely an attempt.

A lot of your post was commentary on the votes, rather than analyzing the intent and/or players' alignments behind them. It's true that I should have been clearer and explicitly asked that of you, but I'm still curious: Why didn't you provide analysis despite not being asked for it at that point?

Also could someone please explain to me what's the deal with Elbirn? i don't see why he's being wagonedm he asked what was the problem was with mollie's replace out and got his question answered so he decided to follow suit, am i missing something super obvious or what.

My vote was for his overexplanation of his vote switch from grapes to Glass earlier in the Day.

I have actually been worrying more about Mollie's replace out over the weekend. She wanted me to play together in this game and encouraged me to sign up (although I didn't need much persuasion as the set up looked cool. I doubt she even read that Wisdom of the One applied, I know from hydraing with her Mollie can miss that kind of stuff - she thought we were a cop in Lost Rooms when we were effectively VT because she hadn't read the sample role PM. I am not getting warm fuzzies from Glass either.

I am 90% sure that pirate mollie replaced out of this game for reasons that were not related to this game, and it was likely that she had missed out on Wisdom of the One. I'm a little surprised that you're unaware of it, but that's neither here nor there. Would you please elaborate on your thoughts regarding Glass?

Hey RC if you still don't see what I mean by MOI impersonators then I don't think you ever will.

Well, they

are

missing that unique MagnaofIllusion touch. With any luck, they will never acquire it!

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura Hana, what do you think Elbirn's motivation would be for lying about his history with buddying?

To fabricate a scumread on me, while i found it odd, I thought for him to be THAT wary that he thought my post was buddying he must have had a past where he got mislynched often, which is what prompted me to look at his past games, and he was townread fairly well by the people which is what caused me to figure he was lying about it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Someone convince me of something, I feel neglected. It's standard to talk to other people about who you suspect; you're never going to convince scum that they are scum so talking directly to them is useless.

[Equinox]

Someone convince me of something, I feel neglected. It's standard to talk to other people about who you suspect; you're never going to convince scum that they are scum so talking directly to them is useless.

What do you think of the relative lack of attention on lufan131?

You mentioned that ArcAngel9 was "mod confirmed town" in post 167. How so?

[Sakura Hana]

Someone convince me of something, I feel neglected. It's standard to talk to other people about who you suspect; you're never going to convince scum that they are scum so talking directly to them is useless.

You could just read 277 and tell me what you think.

[Katsuki]

Hey RC if you still don't see what I mean by MOI impersonators then I don't think you ever will.

Well, they

are

missing that unique MagnaofIllusion touch. With any luck, they will never acquire it!

It certainly was

unique

...

[Katsuki]

Someone convince me of something, I feel neglected. It's standard to talk to other people about who you suspect; you're never going to convince scum that they are scum so talking directly to them is useless.

Really? I thought the point of this game was to convince your scumreads that they're scum because you have rock solid cases.

You should vote AA though.

[Katsuki]

Lastly, how is my play "pro-scum" thus far?

Encouraging confusion and discord and rather than trying to sort things out...

How so?

I wish I was that hedgehog.

Don't we all

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.3

grapes [1] - ArcAngel9
ArcAngel9 [4] - Katsuki, lufan131, farside22, massive
Elbirn [4] - Glass, Equinox, The Bulge, Sakura Hana
lufan131 [4] - Albert B. Rampage, RedCoyote, Elbirn, lalaladucks
Sakura Hana [2] - grapes, zMuffinMan

No Lynch [1] - SXTLHGaiden

Not Voting [1]

- Tere

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch

.

Deadline is April 24, 2015, at Noon PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2015-04-24 14:00:00)

[Katsuki]

@mod: pls dont randomly delete my posts kthx[

[Sakura Hana]

ArcAngel9 [4] - Katsuki, lufan131, farside22, massive
Elbirn [4] - Glass, Equinox, The Bulge, Sakura Hana
lufan131 [4] - Albert B. Rampage, RedCoyote, Elbirn, lalaladucks

Huh this is interesting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You mentioned that ArcAngel9 was "mod confirmed town" in post 167. How so?

The mod wouldn't give arcangel a demon role, now would he?

Someone convince me of something, I feel neglected. It's standard to talk to other people about who you suspect; you're never going to convince scum that they are scum so talking directly to them is useless.

Really? I thought the point of this game was to convince your scumreads that they're scum because you have rock solid cases.

You should vote AA though.

But Luffan is so satisfying.

[Equinox]

The mod wouldn't give arcangel a demon role, now would he?

Well, I guess there isn't a "relative lack of attention" towards lufan131 at all!