New York 180 (Endgame)

[goodmorning]

That depends; are reflexive vigilantes a thing or no?

I honestly don't know the roles too well here on MS.

They're not. Reflexive as a modifier is rare.

Mass murderer is also not a thing.

[goodmorning]

How ika got this approved as Normal is slightly beyond me at this point.

[Shinobi]

Stop turning logic against me.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously. 3 attacks on first night and then either 1 or none. I was either thinking mass murderer (I couldn't find it on the wiki), so I thought it was the town role (off-site names) veteran / grandma / hateful. Everyone said no, one way or another.

Where? I don't remember this happening.

Pedit: Mmm. Seems more plausible now I guess.
Double pedit: Yes, this setup is kind of crazy lol.

[goodmorning]

Huh.

From what I can find, 'Mass Murderers' kill their target & whoever visits that target. Targets and visitors can both be saved by Doctors.

[goodmorning]

Unless they target themselves in which case they kill whoever visits them.

[goodmorning]

3weird5me

[Green Crayons]

Can someone explain to me what the reflexive modifier is, and how it relates to N1 and what Kitz said or didn't say?

[Marquis]

oh

did boon claim doc n1

also i'm losing count of how many roles we have that fill up the non-explicitly-normal count of 2

i think elusive and tso's role take that up right now

[Kitz]

3weird5me

It's a standard role where I'm from, and some other places.
At least it wasn't an electromanaic, gambit, strangulator, professor, demolist, zombie, spectre, engineer, devourer, satanist, warlock.

[ika]

ika can you describe what tso's role specifically did? differences from normal sk?

I can. But the real question of "will I" is no.

Mass murder though is very much a real role.

[Marquis]

oh ok

boon claimed mainly doc, but possibility of other PRs day 1

so pisskop had reason to roleblock boon, and tso had reason to kill boon

so piss died because he also visited boon?? i think

wow this solves things a lot more nicely

also this role is pretty far removed from normal role interactions so ugh tso got by only on the double kill there

[Marquis]

which means that it had to have been ns who doc'd viking against the mafia kill n1, which is further backed up by:

You're not supposed to be informed when you're saved...that means you're lying.

Is that the standard here?

Pretty much, yeah.

Not seeing a vote, NS.

Probably because I haven't voted yet.

[Kitz]

Mass murder though is very much a real role.

Will you share its variant? There's the visit variant, the house variant, and both.

[goodmorning]

Can someone explain to me what the reflexive modifier is, and how it relates to N1 and what Kitz said or didn't say?

Reflexive means you target someone who targets you.

N1 saw 3 kill shots, 1 of which was unsuccessful because the target was protected (and informed of such) (which got him lynched) (even though he was obviously telling the truth).

The rest should be obvious if you've read the last couple pages.

oh ok

boon claimed mainly doc, but possibility of other PRs day 1

so pisskop had reason to roleblock boon, and tso had reason to kill boon

so piss died because he also visited boon?? i think

wow this solves things a lot more nicely

also this role is pretty far removed from normal role interactions so ugh tso got by only on the double kill there

I don't know what was going on D1 but this would make sense, especially if Mafia have another blocking-type role (for use to block the Cop).
Boon would normally have not died because of being elsewhere but if he was RB'd then I guess he'd still be home and NS protected viking.
I wonder if 'Neighbourising' counts as leaving for the purposes of TSO's role.

[Shinobi]

oh ok

boon claimed mainly doc, but possibility of other PRs day 1

so pisskop had reason to roleblock boon, and tso had reason to kill boon

so piss died because he also visited boon?? i think

wow this solves things a lot more nicely

also this role is pretty far removed from normal role interactions so ugh tso got by only on the double kill there

This just leaves one question:
How did mafia know there was a 3p role in the setup?

[dragonspawn]

So night one is explained. What about the no kill night?

[dragonspawn]

oh ok

boon claimed mainly doc, but possibility of other PRs day 1

so pisskop had reason to roleblock boon, and tso had reason to kill boon

so piss died because he also visited boon?? i think

wow this solves things a lot more nicely

also this role is pretty far removed from normal role interactions so ugh tso got by only on the double kill there

This just leaves one question:
How did mafia know there was a 3p role in the setup?

did they? Or did they just suspect it so we would take out tso?

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: 3 kills N1, probably.

[Marquis]

ika can you describe what tso's role specifically did? differences from normal sk?

I can. But the real question of "will I" is no.

Mass murder though is very much a real role.

This is a Normal game, though.

All flavor should be public; flavor is not allowed in Role PMs.

Role names should be standard

, or non-flavored if original.
Flavor should have no bearing on the game -

it should be possible for a player to read only the role reveals posted with the death scene and gain all information needed to play

. This information should be formatted to stand out from the flavor.

The restrictions on flavor also apply in this case. Flipping a player as "Mass Murderer" would also interpreted as a non-standard role name flip for a role that could be described using existing modifiers. Part of a Normal game is being able to know what a role does just based off of its flip and its name.

There is precedence to this in cases such as the introduction of the Babysitter role in an otherwise-Normal game by N himself.

[Marquis]

I mean, one of the main draws of a Normal game is just this, that when a role flips you know how it works and know that the mod isn't holding things back about its function.

[Shinobi]

Mass Murderer is a bulletproof role in SC2mafia, so it's plausible that TSO got shot at some point.

[Kitz]

Here's one piece of information I know about mass murderers.

The normal variation kills whoever rests at a location, so everyone who visits that target is at a location and if target has targeted another they have moved to a different location.
Killing more than one puts them to a cooldown unable to act for a while.

If that's the one, it leaves the question : Why did all these get attacked?
1. Boon visited Viking.
2. Piss roleblocked Viking.
3. Viking couldn't move due to roleblock.
= Boon, Viking and Piss got attacked, healing Viking.

That's 3 attacks with two kills, which should trigger the MM's cooldown.

[Kitz]

I fucking solved N1.

[Marquis]

:/

I would never have known that nor even known where to look. I was still thinking I'd been proved wrong on the bulletproof count.

Still want a full official role explanation.

PEDIT Forgot about viking being roleblocked. But then who did NS protect if not for viking - did he claim it? I don't see a Non-Consecutive Doctor not protecting the claimed Cop while not knowing another Doctor existed in the setup.

[Marquis]

hm