Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Titus]

@Chetory,

That's an awfully long wall to say I am not scumhunting. Generally, the more words you must use to prove the absence of something, the less it is actually true. Yes I have been working on being a team player. It's my greatest weakness. Yet, you just dismissing what I am doing as not scumhunting is asinine. You saw that interaction with Espy where I told him what I needed from him. I am giving him the opportunity ti deliver on what I am telling him that town him does. My perception of his scumhunting.

You have just dismissed everything I have been doing and focused on what I have been most vocal about. Have you even considered asking me who my reads are? No. That might disprove the theory you've been pushing. You might be surprised.

[Titus]

How do you perceive me to scumhunt?

[Gammagooey]

words

I think your espeonage vote is bad and that you should feel bad about it.

mostly because I think his posts show dem town motivations which I already went over forever ago.

who else do you think is scum?

[Cheetory6]

i) I perceive anyone who's town to have a vested interest in finding scum.
I would expect townTitus to have a feeling for who scum is and to push it.

ii) If what you took away from that wall was "Cheetory is only trying to say that I'm not scumhunting" then I suggest you read it again and feel bad for insinuating it as such.

iii) I take issue with your focus rather than the occasional questions you pose to people.

You have just dismissed everything I have been doing and focused on what I have been most vocal about. Have you even considered asking me who my reads are? No. That might disprove the theory you've been pushing. You might be surprised.

Why would I focus on what you've been most vocal about? How ridiculous of me.
And Titus, you're more than welcome to share your reads, but the fact is that you have more than two times the number of posts of the second biggest poster in this game and it's unbelievable that I don't know what your reads are given that this is the case.

[Cheetory6]

I'm going to fail this exam.
Fuck my life.
-.-

[Titus]

Go study. Come back with fresh eyes. It's not the end of the world to take some time away.

The fact you don't know my reads is because you are not listening to my posts. You're ignoring and dismissing them.

It's pretty obvious that I'm scumreading UT and Aronis pretty hard for instance. The former because UT has done jackshit. He still has despite "wanting me to be town". I don't care. If he wants to work with me, I need to see some dialogue that remotely resembles scumhunting. Aronis is a scumread because I really liked TTH's case on Aronis showing it was more than lurking.

CDB and Espeonage are weak scumreads. CDB I didn't like the GiF push early, it just didn't sit right with me. That's more of a gut thing that I documented. Espeonage is a weak scumread because I'm not seeing what I expect to see out of Espeonage when he's town. He said I'm using a bad game to compare with so I'm a little bit more open to giving him more time to compare. Singer is still a scumread but I'm trying because FFery really thinks Singer is town.

I'm not going to yell, but the sheer volume of my posts allows me to engage people in real time. It's harder to fake shit when you're having to post your thoughts as they come into your head.

[Gammagooey]

expecting titus to conform to any sort of sane expectations seems like a general waste of time

Cheet I don't want you to take this as "don't vote titus" because I will hammer Titus if handed the opportunity barring a pretty damn decent claim

but how do you feel about CDB and how he's posted a lot about the various wagons looking town but never actually hard-pushing on any of them? (with the kind-of exception of AD, who he is now sharing the wagon on esp with)

[Untrod Tripod]

It's pretty obvious that I'm scumreading UT and Aronis pretty hard for instance. The former because UT has done jackshit. He still has despite "wanting me to be town". I don't care. If he wants to work with me, I need to see some dialogue that remotely resembles scumhunting.

quit the charade and vote me, then

[GuyInFreezer]

CDB I didn't like the GiF push early, it just didn't sit right with me.

Is this has anything to do with you townreading me

[Titus]

@UT, I am not voting a lynch not endorsed by FFery because it has zero chance of going through given how scum have decimated my credibility.

@Gamma, That fucking hurts. Maybe you should try looking from a different perspective.

@GiF, Possibly. Pushing on someone I know to be town will look suspect. The fact his push has been all but abandoned because it's not popular is alarming.

[mastin2]

Where I am hasn't changed. But I should convey some of pie's thoughts.

pie is beginning to come around to Titus being town. She has a MASSIVE desire to see DV die in a figurative fire (because DV's too lovable to die in real life), and also has my GIF suspicion. (I'm really, REALLY trusting my townbloc here as for why GIF isn't scum, because he'd still be there if not for them.) The singer suspicion continues, though pie admits that pie mainly is basing that off of Empire (and his backwards reads among other things) and hasn't gotten around to reading much from singer. The fourth in pie's lynchlist is Esp, but that's a questionable read, and if not Esp then pie is thinking a weaker townread, like maybe Aronis, who pie has a gut-townread on.

pie also felt like for the first lynch, the entire flurry of posts (minus singer) was town, and that the scum were just sitting back, enjoying the show, noting that Aronis fits this profile but again the gut-townread is telling her not to pursue. (She does not support an Aronis lynch.)
Also, I'm not the only one drawing Tales parallels; pie shares my sentiment that this game is eerily similar.

Btw, I am peeking and see a Titus wagon, and that is a Very Bad Thing (R).

[Titus]

@Mastina, Can you join me on CDB, It's FFery endorsed atm. CDB has not felt extremely townie and I would like to asses his reaction to being wagoned to get a more solid read on him.

[Gammagooey]

@Gamma, That fucking hurts. Maybe you should try looking from a different perspective.

don't get me wrong, i like you as a person

but as a mafia player you seem to have very little coherent focus while playing and it makes you incredibly unreadable to me.

[vezokpiraka]

@Mastina, Can you join me on CDB, It's FFery endorsed atm. CDB has not felt extremely townie and I would like to asses his reaction to being wagoned to get a more solid read on him.

Could you explain CDB a little for me?

[Titus]

@Gamma, That fucking hurts. Maybe you should try looking from a different perspective.

don't get me wrong, i like you as a person

but as a mafia player you seem to have very little coherent focus while playing and it makes you incredibly unreadable to me.

Hyper focus early on is actually not ideal play (not saying I haven't done this) but the first stage of mafia play is about getting information and getting people to talk much more so than being right. If town talk, it makes us easier to identify to each other. If scum talk, they give information about who their partners are.

Now, if you're meaning focus as in clarity (rather than selective responding), that's something I struggle with. Alcohol generally helps slow my mental capacity down but I read and process about 5 trains of thought at once naturally. I'm not wired like everyone else and I know that. I will literally walk you thought

how

to read me if you just engage me. It's not specific behaviors that you're looking for to determine the difference between town and scum when dealing with me. Particularly in a theme game, you reveal me as town or out me as scum based on what I know and the scenario like that, not how I articulate it.

My town scenarios naturally have methods (that look ridiculous to me at the time) but can turn out to be false. My scum scenarios tend to be tighter because I don't care to be wrong. Being wrong is a hit to credibility. I generally don't reveal information fast as scum, because that helps solve the puzzle, unless that information creates an impression of something vital and untrue. For instance, take Butcher. I revealed Reck visited really early because I knew the most logical explanation was Reck was opposed to me and injected me with something bad. It created a misleading result. I held back that I was a jailkeeper for obvious reasons because I could push that TF was a scum/evil tracker because there was no way the game should have devolved to follow the cop. I'm still annoyed about that.

Compare to that InuYasha game. I revealed that I was ascetic soon after YnB claimed friendly neighbor (although indirectly at first) because I didn't want her to visit me and then say her shot was garbage because I thought she was scum.

FMPOV, mafia is a game of information, behavior is a part but over relied on. Narratives tell a totally different side of things. What people push still has importance despite

how

they say it.

[Titus]

Spoiler: CDB quotes

Oh, hey, speaking of my catch-up, GiF never got back to me about this. I think he should.

I won't pretend to have read more than my own entry in that list and the two at the bottom for now, but I'll definitely be coming back to it later.

Oh, hey, speaking of my catch-up, GiF never got back to me about this. I think he should.

I won't pretend to have read more than my own entry in that list and the two at the bottom for now, but I'll definitely be coming back to it later.

I missed it.

And?

Ffery, I'd been holding off on your word as I'd hoped that you would nominate a shortlist of three or something, as some of us were talking about, rather than homing in on one person specifically, so as to make scum decide within your shortlist to get more choices on record. However, seeing as enough people have just ignored you altogether, I guess we arrive at a similar point.

Boon: vezok

because the confirmed town wants me to. My read on vezok is slightly town now, anyway.

While I'm relaying opinions from the Black Goo, CES argues that we should use the Bane on a player who is hard to read (vezok is his example). This is because it's harder to judge scumminess on Day 1 before we see how any flips go and it would allow us to use investigative abilities on them - meanwhile, if scum kill them, we don't lose somebody we were quickly townreading. By avoiding a Bane on the No.1 scummiest player, too, we avoid complicating their potential lynch on Major Day 1. Again, I'm pretty much sold on his argument, especially the last part - I think Baning people who we intend to lynch immediately is a waste, though acknowledging that that could change later depending on what future Banes involve.

UnBane: Titus
Bane: vezok

I might pick somebody else later but I'm pretty sure that I don't want to Bane Titus, whom I'm reading as town.

Also reading Tammy as probably town but I don't know the dynamics between her, Zar, Empire etc. well enough to say that I scumread Zar as an extension of townreading Tammy.

Sure, OK, let's just get on with it.

Unbane: vezok
Bane: Bulbazak

FFery should pick the boon person or the boon pool we vote in. We know scum cannot influence uf she picks directly.

Ffery picking a pool from which we Boon is a good idea. I would prefer to have some influence in choosing from within that subset as we know that town vastly outnumbers scum.

That's the answer for both of your questions.

How did you manage to read so little of me? I mean, you clearly missed multiple posts. What was the point of the iso if you weren't going to read all of it?

What is your read on me at the moment?

CDB gives me bad vibes because I am 95% sure his votes on towI get he has to do his own investigation and shoving GiF as town is really antitown since I cannot prove it.

While I think that you're town, I don't agree with your read on a player who has the third-most posts in the game while still making very little impact on anything at all, as well as the things that are pinging me that I've mentioned. You're entitled to your read but, when you talk about it being based on ika, a player who is not in this game (and please, GiF, don't bring him in here), that does not make me drop everything to agree with it.

And both he and I want to tell GiF that he's not allowed to swap with ika.

I have focused here on CDB's reads on two players that make me uncomfortable: Vezok and GiF. Both of these reads were based on some form of lurking. Vezok's was just outright false based on my perspective at the time and now. He also says GiF is a scum because his many posts are not memorable. There's 20 players and play focused on around forming town coalitions. Someone is going to not be memorable. Is that a bad thing? No. He ignores that some people do not care to be memorable.

CDB starts with Vezok as scum but lurking. I refute. He persists. Then, when the conftown wants Vezok baned... suddenly Vezok's town. It's uncomfortably awkward. #981 is wierd. FFery picking a pool but us having some influence is good, because town vastly outnumber scum. What? If Ffery made the sole pick, we would know there's 100% town influence and 0% scum influence so what's the point behind town having more influence.

CDB's GiF read focus on him not being present. Common sense says that some people hunt differently where they don't need to be at the forefront. That's literally all there is to his GiF post and the fact he missed a question awhile ago. There's no teeth there at all. He also drops it when facing any sort of resistance. The resistance to having ika here when the game is demotivated and ika can obvtown himself quite well are also awkward to me. Hell, I should be the only one objecting to an ika influence but I won't cuz GiF's town.

There's no response from CDB regarding half the players. His reads are nearly untrackable. He doesn't comment on things that might cause him to change his reads. Overall, his strongest two expressed reads are the most difficult for me to comprehend at all.

[singersigner]

Things That Bother Me About Titus 101:

Also, BBT said he didn't care for meta. Not surprised. He did link me to a past game.

BBT and I both share a disdain for meta, so yeah.

@Singer, Stop with the discrediting. People have gone over the read. You have postured at every turn and stopped actually hunting scum. My team recommends not interacting with you to reset but I don't see how you could EVER flip anything but scum here. Zar, Empire, now you all had major issues.

As for meta, looking at personality to see aberrations is not meta. Otherwise everything is meta. Also people can have obvious meta tells. There are only a few with this.

What's the difference between personality and the way someone plays the game? I don't understand how you're cherry picking this meta argument when you've directly appealed to people looking at both your town and scum games, and even use it yourself

this game

...convenient??

Spoiler: Titus on meta

Found it. Open 569 I was in abject pain from a car accident I was in.

I didn't bus because my meta was to never bus

but no I was throwing shade on all the major townreads there. I just cracked when I thought Sakura was pushing me for not replying fast enough.

You see, I approach the game exactly backwards.

Find the box of what is possible first using the setup, votes etc. Then I look at role consistency. Then I look at motivation.

Then I look at behavior (which meta is a part).

That deduction is how I work.

That deduction is also how you detect my alignment.

@Singer, supposing that's true, that's not true for a majority of the people pushing Bulba scum. The pattern has changed.

Also, yes, you're not likely to get the meta references.

Sorry about that, but it's simpler to refer to games rather than fall prey to the "As you know" trope.

@All, let's get this TSO lynch done. We can have two lynches today, but we have to get one done first.

Two days until lynch 1 deadline. If you're going to make a push on singer now is the time Gamma. I would prefer a singer lynch atm.

what do you think I'm doing? I just made literally the biggest post I've made all game about why I think singer is scum.

Esp can you give a few more reads? cheet & shadow & CDB are all people I'd like to hear more opinions about.

You had a fight with singer which is great attempt at showing it but I am thinking more bulletpoints. Short and simple. I will add mine. Mastina can add hers. Big walls can get lost to some and quickly labeled T v T just for being walls.

This is a huge appeal for someone to do your work for you. If you think I'm fucking scum, make your own damn case. Or at the very least, show exactly in someone else's where you agree. If you didn't get anywhere in Gamma's whole engagement from me, or his own wall/case on me that I was scum, then it's up to YOU to provide. I don't think anyone would argue that Gamma did his due diligence in trying to explain exactly what he thought of me, yet you're trying to pull for more because...what? You didn't think it was convincing enough for you? You wanted to seal the deal before you changed your mind about listening to Ffery's 100% accuracy rate of reading Empire so that it wouldn't come back to bite you in the butt later? Or did you forget about this gem:

Really UT, you want to lynch Singer after that? Confirmed town pushing something that never fails and you want to go against it...why? That seems fucking shitty. I think there's something else underneath that Ffery finds in Empire and then tailors it but a 100% accuracy rate should not be fought against.

maybe you only said it to appeal more to the confirmed town?!?

I think there's maybe one scum on Singer (UT), possible up to three on AD given the speed of his wagon and scum possibly capitalizing on quicklynch desires and a couple possible on Espy...(yes I know that's too many scum).

you can't possibly know this kind of thing right now. this is bullshit disguised as analysis.

There's a difference between thinking and knowing. I can feel a wagon has a lot of town composition without knowing everything. If you took all of mygut feels, there's five scum. Since only four, obviously I am not purporting to know anything. You know I look at votes and say what I think on wagons. I have always said VCA is fallible without a scumflip. Why are you trying to make me sound more confident than I am?

This really sounds like someone justifying the way they pulled some bullshit out of their ass and got called out on it.

when were you in NC??????

A few months ago I swung by the commune for a day or two because of wedding I was attending. It was cheaper to drive out to the commune than fly back sooner. Twas fun.

Yeah! It was around Memorial Day or something. I think that was the first time we met Antihero and we haven't seen him since???

We tried playing True American but it got a little dark and less fun for the people not drinking, but we'll have to do a redo if/whenever you make it out again.

Definitely. If you are on the west coast, swing by my place too.

But seriously, we should stop this. It's spammy.

This also really bothered me but I only slightly touched on it before. I'm not really sure how you feel justified shutting down our ONE RESPONSE DIALOGUE, calling it spammy, when you went on a rant on how to better yourself in game, which easily could've been done afterwards. I feel like you needed that conversation to better yourself NOW because you're starting to pick up heat for playing "the wrong way" and getting caught for it, so you can't afford to wait until after the game where your alignment is confirmed and people can actively give you adequate advice. You're soliciting coaching on the premise that you're town so that you can look more town when no one

actually knows you're town

.

Singer, let's see. Tomorrow for FFery's sake, if we can work out our differences. I liked your recent posting. I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on Shadoweh, but can you talk a bit more on CDB. That read I'm kinda iffy on. Just put it point by point.

[/quote]
I think this is very much an appeal to get me on her good side the second I softened up and looked like I would see a town-Titus. Really fucking sketchy shit right here.

Regfan also noted 3597 where you try to encourage people onto someone based on the fact that confirmed town signed off on it, when previously you were adamant that both Mastin AND Ffery had to sign off on the votes. When did that change and why?

[singersigner]

oh crap, my vote was butchered as fuck. >_>

vote: Titus

[vezokpiraka]

Spoiler: CDB quotes

Oh, hey, speaking of my catch-up, GiF never got back to me about this. I think he should.

I won't pretend to have read more than my own entry in that list and the two at the bottom for now, but I'll definitely be coming back to it later.

Oh, hey, speaking of my catch-up, GiF never got back to me about this. I think he should.

I won't pretend to have read more than my own entry in that list and the two at the bottom for now, but I'll definitely be coming back to it later.

I missed it.

And?

Ffery, I'd been holding off on your word as I'd hoped that you would nominate a shortlist of three or something, as some of us were talking about, rather than homing in on one person specifically, so as to make scum decide within your shortlist to get more choices on record. However, seeing as enough people have just ignored you altogether, I guess we arrive at a similar point.

Boon: vezok

because the confirmed town wants me to. My read on vezok is slightly town now, anyway.

While I'm relaying opinions from the Black Goo, CES argues that we should use the Bane on a player who is hard to read (vezok is his example). This is because it's harder to judge scumminess on Day 1 before we see how any flips go and it would allow us to use investigative abilities on them - meanwhile, if scum kill them, we don't lose somebody we were quickly townreading. By avoiding a Bane on the No.1 scummiest player, too, we avoid complicating their potential lynch on Major Day 1. Again, I'm pretty much sold on his argument, especially the last part - I think Baning people who we intend to lynch immediately is a waste, though acknowledging that that could change later depending on what future Banes involve.

UnBane: Titus
Bane: vezok

I might pick somebody else later but I'm pretty sure that I don't want to Bane Titus, whom I'm reading as town.

Also reading Tammy as probably town but I don't know the dynamics between her, Zar, Empire etc. well enough to say that I scumread Zar as an extension of townreading Tammy.

Sure, OK, let's just get on with it.

Unbane: vezok
Bane: Bulbazak

FFery should pick the boon person or the boon pool we vote in. We know scum cannot influence uf she picks directly.

Ffery picking a pool from which we Boon is a good idea. I would prefer to have some influence in choosing from within that subset as we know that town vastly outnumbers scum.

That's the answer for both of your questions.

How did you manage to read so little of me? I mean, you clearly missed multiple posts. What was the point of the iso if you weren't going to read all of it?

What is your read on me at the moment?

CDB gives me bad vibes because I am 95% sure his votes on towI get he has to do his own investigation and shoving GiF as town is really antitown since I cannot prove it.

While I think that you're town, I don't agree with your read on a player who has the third-most posts in the game while still making very little impact on anything at all, as well as the things that are pinging me that I've mentioned. You're entitled to your read but, when you talk about it being based on ika, a player who is not in this game (and please, GiF, don't bring him in here), that does not make me drop everything to agree with it.

And both he and I want to tell GiF that he's not allowed to swap with ika.

I have focused here on CDB's reads on two players that make me uncomfortable: Vezok and GiF. Both of these reads were based on some form of lurking. Vezok's was just outright false based on my perspective at the time and now. He also says GiF is a scum because his many posts are not memorable. There's 20 players and play focused on around forming town coalitions. Someone is going to not be memorable. Is that a bad thing? No. He ignores that some people do not care to be memorable.

CDB starts with Vezok as scum but lurking. I refute. He persists. Then, when the conftown wants Vezok baned... suddenly Vezok's town. It's uncomfortably awkward. #981 is wierd. FFery picking a pool but us having some influence is good, because town vastly outnumber scum. What? If Ffery made the sole pick, we would know there's 100% town influence and 0% scum influence so what's the point behind town having more influence.

CDB's GiF read focus on him not being present. Common sense says that some people hunt differently where they don't need to be at the forefront. That's literally all there is to his GiF post and the fact he missed a question awhile ago. There's no teeth there at all. He also drops it when facing any sort of resistance. The resistance to having ika here when the game is demotivated and ika can obvtown himself quite well are also awkward to me. Hell, I should be the only one objecting to an ika influence but I won't cuz GiF's town.

There's no response from CDB regarding half the players. His reads are nearly untrackable. He doesn't comment on things that might cause him to change his reads. Overall, his strongest two expressed reads are the most difficult for me to comprehend at all.

So most of this hinges on me being scum with CDB? And the fact that CDB didn't give straight up reads? Either you're just not trying and failing at being town or you are scum grasping for reasons. I think you're scum.

[Titus]

@Vezok, Wow...I never even implied he was scum with you just that his progression on you was off.

@Singer, The response was to limit spam. The entire conversation with multiple participants was off course. If I was warming you up, why cut you off?

As for the never wrong thing, shut up about things you know nothing about. I tild Ffery I was never wrong on Egg in Uncouyh and she raked me over the coals for it. Forgive me for showing a little empathy and trying to work with you because yeah she thinks we are both town. Maybe you could do the same.

Yes I use meta for personality and hoe people think. I use it to explain how I think because no one gets me. It's frustrating as hell.

Now I am going to ask you to stop scumreading me for being a decent person. If you cannot take an olive branch when I offer it, I will smash it.

[singersigner]

@Singer, The response was to limit spam. The entire conversation with multiple participants was off course. If I was warming you up, why cut you off?

You cut it off before you made the post appealing to me. Then you called me maybe town question mark and then trying to make me agree to "working with you" like I'm just going to all of a sudden think you're town? Try to think about the actual events that took place before asking stupid questions.

As for the never wrong thing, shut up about things you know nothing about. I tild Ffery I was never wrong on Egg in Uncouyh and she raked me over the coals for it. Forgive me for showing a little empathy and trying to work with you because yeah she thinks we are both town. Maybe you could do the same.

You can't really bully me into feeling bad for disagreeing with Ffery. I wasn't calling you out about saying submitting to her read in the first place, I was calling you out for lashing out at UT for disagreeing with you about her 100% accuracy, then retracting that willingness to follow up on it upon your convenience. I think you're stuck because you've essentially committed to a town read on me because of her read on Empire, yet you think I'm, what, lynchbait? so you're trying to get other people to do the dirty work for you (i.e. appealing to Gamma's case). If you

really

think I'm scum, I think it's time to take what she says under consideration while thinking for yourself. You're using Ffery as a means to relinquish responsibility for your choices and now appealing to the fact that I'm not like it's a bad thing.

Yes I use meta for personality and hoe people think. I use it to explain how I think because no one gets me. It's frustrating as hell.

This is an appeal to emotion if I ever saw one. "Woe is me! No one

gets

me!" It's hypocritical and you know it. While hypocrisy isn't alignment indicative, it only makes you look scummy because it feels like you're using it selectively to your advantage to push your own agenda. Gamma kiiiiinda felt like he was doing this, but I admit I read too much into his emphasis (or lack thereof) on the meta argument with me.

Now I am going to ask you to stop scumreading me for being a decent person. If you cannot take an olive branch when I offer it, I will smash it.

I'm scumreading you for being a decent person? You're literally just twisting it into a way to make yourself look better when I said you look like you're trying to get me off your back. Can you not see how one might take it that way?

[Bulbazak]

@Oversoul...you can "nip it in the butt" all you want, but you haven't really addressed our concerns. I never said I thought you were scum; I just wanted answers to questions that cast any doubt on our townread of your slot.

Speaking of which, Bulb and TTH are both in prod range? This isn't promising for getting a second lynch in time...

Was there a point to this, or were you just trying to look useful?

I've liked singer's posting. Seem to be driven to helping town recently.

In what world is she trying to help town?

Dude, you didn't meet me when I was in NC. Spiderwoman is actually pretty close to my build.

I was told those type of proportions were unrealistic. I'm still trying to work out how she hasn't gone in debt from chiropractor bills.

I've actually played more f2f games with Singer than mafia games which is interesting because mafia games in face to face I suck at as it's all emotion and reading people.

I suck at f2f/skype games for a different reason.

It's not that I want to lynch blindly, but we also should've thought about the possibility of claiming before we got to this point, as it'd be really easy for scum whose lynch is inevitable to just claim any goddamn thing and live longer, creating a scramble and another flash wagon that will give us even less information.

I really want to know how you thought this was a good idea and for you to try to convince me it came from town.

2. What? Why are you concerned about Tammy and I switching? Indulge me for a bit, because it is about to get super self-metay.
Tammy and Oversoul both hate playing scum.
Tammy and Oversoul both spent tokens trying to get town.
Tammy and Oversoul both like playing town.
They like playing town because there is less stress and more freedom.
Tammy and Oversoul would *never* willingly jump into a slot that they *know* is scum.
It was almost a trust tell back when I still played a lot that I would never take a role I knew was scum.

But those aren't the only reasons why this concern is poor form coming from your team, Singer.
Why would Tammy chose to replace out against Espeonage *rather* than Zar? Someone who actually knows her scum game? And someone who has played extensively with Tammy? That makes no sense. Tammy replaced out because Tammy felt that Espeonage had a weird fixation on her, to the point that he would comment on almost every single post that Tammy made. Tammy didn't want to derail the game with that nonsense, so she asked if she could switch. I agreed because I was the most caught up with this game (lol still 60 pages behind) and I thought it would be fun.



So far the fun aspect has yet to show.
Your entire team should *know* how Tammy operates seeing as how often they play with her.

Just look at the situation from Tammy's perspective
- Zar is a scum read
- Zar is not hounding Tammy every post
- Zar is not purposefully misinterpreting posts trying to goad Tammy into a fight
- Tammy was mad at Empire for comments he made, yet still didn't feel personal. Your question/concern is skeevy, but I'm willing to chalk it up to paranoia that always rears its ugly head.

ALL of these things are opposites with Espeonage.

Tammy also says that you should not compare your scum game to Tammy's scum game since she feels that you two play very differently. She says she wouldn't be "worried" about fucking up and that Mina/Zar/Regfan should know that.

And last but not least, why the hell would Tammy switch out of a game where she almost universally town read?

Should send you all to Qyburn to realign your scumdars.

I really want to know how you still reached a town read on Singer after this, because all the town in 11 players should have quick lynched her for this.

VOTE: Vezok

TSO was willing to make sure no PR got the boon to stop Vezok from getting it. I want to know why.

Because this is TSO and he's hardheaded and tunnely and stuff?

I don't know he is. I am wanting to get some pressure on him and re-evaluate. Someone feeling that strongly should be looked at. It's the exact thing I'd want in his place.

And why did this have to be via wagon and not PR?

Overall, my assessment of mastin's activity so far has been to promote a scum agenda. The "townbloc" that she was sure to hammer on early is nothing short of catastrophically dysfunctional, but that doesn't seem to bother her much. The push on singer's slot has never been

that

great and the TSO vote was completely phoned in and bad. All the while, the reads like Marquis and DV who

I

would have been willing to work with mastin on languished.

First, I want to know how Titus, Mastin, and I have been dysfunctional, because we all seem to be on the same page for the most part. Second, your "case" against Mastin seems to ignore context and flow, which should allow you to see where she was coming from with the degree of some of her pushes. Everything is very clear if you look at it from that perspective, and her thought process couldn't be more transparent.

Titus moon-logic is still the same.

So is this Town-Titus moon logic, or Scum-Titus moon logic? Please be sure to explain your answer. This will count towards your final grade.

But whatever. I know Nacho is pushing this. It's becoming a sitewide thing where Nacho is fucking lynching me in every game we play and he's always wrong.

This really seems like scumposting.

To be fair, I've been there. Nacho did the same thing to me after Maniacal.

This is more or less how I feel right now and her claiming a detect doesn't feel like it's coming from a townPOV

Explain to me how it's scum motivated.

Btw Cheet, if you really want to die I can tell everyone your sign.

I actually think this makes Esp more likely to be town.

for scum my pool is singer, titus, mastin, gun to my head mayyyyyyyyyyybe oversoul but that'd take some work

I disagree with all of these except Singer.

On that note, if it comes out scum have daytalk I would find it hard to believe that fishy is scum.

I'm really not sure how to feel about this one.

I really don't like this post.

Titus ignored my case on her.
Titus ignored my response to her case on singer.
I was getting pissed off and made a snarky response.
Apparently people love tossing shit suspicion at me for showing emotion. Woo.

It seemed like an unnecessary attack and looked more like scum overreaching.

Explain, because I'm not sure I follow.

If Esp gets traced to me without derpclaiming == he looks even worse than TTH did because he can't softclaim anything to defend against it because he's already claimed VT.

Nope. Still don't get it. Traces happen during the minor nights, so I'm not seeing how Esp being traced would put him in any danger.

She's approaching this game from a town mindset. She's trying to understand other people's thoughts and motivations, and she's trying to work with her townreads. If you take the time, you can see her engaging with the game and trying to figure it out, where as scum, she'd be a lot more pushy. I've played with Titus as both alignments. This is her town game.

Her town game is passive? Really?

Compare Organic Chemistry (Town) to Unbalanced 2 (Scum). This is Titus's town game.

Before I go any further on this, do you actually have any experience playing with Mastin?

Yes I fucking get that mastin always plays like this. It's shitty because I have no idea where she's coming from.

Then given your experience with Mastin, her inability to explain a read shouldn't mean it should automatically be discounted. Your attack on the Singer wagon for this reason, therefore, doesn't make any sense.

How so?

@TitusTSOthings, Titus was like "oh man TSO is town because he's angry about things" and then all of a sudden TSO being angry about things was scummy.

Was there a bit of context you missed, or perhaps a difference in the type of anger she pointed out?

Ika also gave a Titus townread earlier in the game. It makes sense that Titus would reach out and try to work with him.

Number of times Titus has been stating that ika is obvtown via proxy is disproportionate and feels unreasonable. It feels like buddying to me.

I actually think Ika townreading her is way stranger. If you were to look at possible buddying, it should be from Ika, not from Titus. I take the fact they've connected and are trying to work together very promising.

Where did this happen? Quotes please.

The fact you might be switching with Oversoul doesn't look good to me as I have difficulties reading him (Dr. Who I tunnelled him bad, and only cleared him in InuYasha due to VCA) and you are supposed to be obvtown if town. I do not mean this as a threat but telling you how I will perceive it and I doubt I am the only one who would be bothered. Would you be lynched on this alone? No but it does get my paranoia juices flowing.

And yet when Esp does it it's obvscum, right?

The timing of Esp's suspicions were off. He did so right after Mollie called Tammy scum, essentially piggybacking off of that. His attack was opportunistic. Was anyone else casting suspicion at Tammy during that time for those reasons? No, so Titus is not in the same boat, and her paranoia is a little bit more in line from what I'd expect coming from the type of player Titus is. She's way too fast to draw connections, even when there are none, and it naturally makes her paranoid. I actually take that paranoia as a good sign.

I think that anyone thinking that is high.

I think many things about you right now. None of which I can say because of hito's censor on this game
I put a lot of effort into ISOdiving Esp/Titus and for you to sneeze at me and call me a high idiot like this is fucking insulting.

Why did you comment on this, and not the reasons I outlined as to why I disagreed with this theory?

Sorry about not being on yesterday. Several things came up that I had to deal with (But at least I got Wisdom out of it. ). I'm going to push through this tonight to make sure I can say everything I want to.

Also, this Titus wagon is freaking scummy, and someone should take a real hard look at it. Mastin, Titus, this is a Shos-wagon level statement.

On to page 136.

[singersigner]

I pointed out that people were in prod range because like Oversoul already stated, Titus is/was reaching negative utility at this point, and people were falling behind, being absent, etc. I've been very vocal about my disappointment in such. But now that you bring it up again, it's particularly interesting because Titus claimed to need a wagon on TTH to bring her back and engaged in the game, yet no mention when she went missing again. Another example of where I think Titus is just talking out of her ass.

With regards to the claiming issue: did you not want two lynches? I prioritized accordingly. I felt as though at the very least, a town PR would make it a priority to claim so close to losing the opportunity of another lynch that without it, it didn't seem like we were missing anything because she was either VT or scum.

What about the Titus wagon is scummy? You don't have to say because I'm on it; I think that's implied by your read of me. I am but one person, so I'd like to know exactly what/who you have a problem with?

[Cheetory6]

I have no self-control. -.-

Explain to me how it's scum motivated.

Why does townTitus detect? Why does townTitus detect and casually claim? Think about it. If you still don't get it, think about it some more.

Nope. Still don't get it. Traces happen during the minor nights, so I'm not seeing how Esp being traced would put him in any danger.

I'm considered a townread by some people in this game [and before you start screaming and shouting about how I'm not, go away kthx]. If Espeonage gets traced to me on Minor Day 2 then he looks like scum, much in the same manner TTH was put under scrutiny for. If you can't understand that, then I honestly don't understand what more to say to you. Claiming his action now in a harmless "I don't know what I'm doing" manner makes him look like VI instead of scum.

Then given your experience with Mastin, her inability to explain a read shouldn't mean it should automatically be discounted. Your attack on the Singer wagon for this reason, therefore, doesn't make any sense.

Mastin isn't a hard townread for me, and I'm not automatically discounting it, I just by the very nature of mastinreads cannot understand where she's coming from. I don't see whatever tone argument she's trying to make for singer being scum. I just see singer being abrasive and rubbing people the wrong way.

I'll look at game links tomorrow.

I actually think Ika townreading her is way stranger. If you were to look at possible buddying, it should be from Ika, not from Titus. I take the fact they've connected and are trying to work together very promising.

ika isn't townreading her?

Why did you comment on this, and not the reasons I outlined as to why I disagreed with this theory?

Because I have an exam tomorrow and your post pissed me off a lot. I'll take the time to respond to specific things when I have time this weekend, but I was pissed off and felt compelled to let you know that I disliked how you chose to respond to me.

The timing of Esp's suspicions were off. He did so right after Mollie called Tammy scum, essentially piggybacking off of that. His attack was opportunistic. Was anyone else casting suspicion at Tammy during that time for those reasons? No, so Titus is not in the same boat, and her paranoia is a little bit more in line from what I'd expect coming from the type of player Titus is. She's way too fast to draw connections, even when there are none, and it naturally makes her paranoid. I actually take that paranoia as a good sign.

Except this wasn't what we were talking about. We were talking about people taking potshots at Tammy for replacing.

[Cheetory6]

how do you feel about CDB and how he's posted a lot about the various wagons looking town but never actually hard-pushing on any of them? (with the kind-of exception of AD, who he is now sharing the wagon on esp with)

This will also come tomorrow. Sorry. Not ignoring you.