8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[quadz08]

VOTECOUNT 5.12

wgeurts (4) - Metal Sonic, Alchemist, Zar, GreyICE
GreyICE (3) - ZZZX, wgeurts, Pirate Mollie

Not Voting (1) - Ooba

With 8 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

[Zar]

@Mollie

Mollie: can you please explain to me your GI scumread, aside from following the Nacho Brick Road?

Mollie please explain to me your GreyICE scumread? I just went over your ISO and you and saw you call him scum plenty of times between your entry and your post to ooba. Can you please walk me through? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, I want to peek into your brain. I think you are town, but our read here is disparagingly different.

[Zar]

listen to me. I need you to really listen to me. look at what and who is bringing hardcore analysis to the game and who isn't. metal is bringing it on, zzthing is bringing it, I am bringing it on I feel like wguerts is bringing it on in his own way. there are 3 players who aren't. grey, zarella and alchey.

Also Mollie, I would like you to explain why you think I am not bringing 'hardcore analysis' into this game, because I feel I have been very analytical about the flips and have been actively trying to discern the partnerships.

[pirate mollie]

My point being ZZZX

really

wants to lynch town today.

'tis strange to see such resistance to the lynch of a scumread

.

What do you happen to think of ZZZX and Wguerts, Mollie?

why I quite agree with this!

I don't get why you are not lynched already.

as for zzthing and wguerts I am pretty sure my opinions have not changed since #3784.

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie

Mollie: can you please explain to me your GI scumread, aside from following the Nacho Brick Road?

Mollie please explain to me your GreyICE scumread? I just went over your ISO and you and saw you call him scum plenty of times between your entry and your post to ooba. Can you please walk me through? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, I want to peek into your brain. I think you are town, but our read here is disparagingly different.

zarella

if you read my iso and didn't pick up as to why I think he is scum then you didn't read my iso.

[pirate mollie]

listen to me. I need you to really listen to me. look at what and who is bringing hardcore analysis to the game and who isn't. metal is bringing it on, zzthing is bringing it, I am bringing it on I feel like wguerts is bringing it on in his own way. there are 3 players who aren't. grey, zarella and alchey.

Also Mollie, I would like you to explain why you think I am not bringing 'hardcore analysis' into this game, because I feel I have been very analytical about the flips and have been actively trying to discern the partnerships.

your vote is on wguerts and I don't see you trying to sort him out at all. nor any other players.

what you have been doing is coasting and sheeping the largest wagons while remaining largely uninvolved.

it wld be awsum if you cld produce something more than what you are currently giving.

[Zar]

well, I did read it, and I didn't see why it's so strong aside you saying your team having a collective strong read.

can you please walk me through it?

I'm not following you Mollie. I would like to but I'm not. I saw you mention you thought he was part of the rush to get Eddie lynched, but aside from that I can't see where you're coming from with GreyICE. I'm pretty convinced you're reading him wrong.

p.Edit: <_< I've been sheeping the largest wagons?? Like, really mollie? Are we playing the same game?

[GreyICE]

My point being ZZZX

really

wants to lynch town today.

'tis strange to see such resistance to the lynch of a scumread

.

What do you happen to think of ZZZX and Wguerts, Mollie?

why I quite agree with this!

I don't get why you are not lynched already.

as for zzthing and wguerts I am pretty sure my opinions have not changed since #3784.

Speaking of people not answering my questions, this Mollie. This is you not answering my questions. 3784 is my post, Mollie. You just quoted it.

[pirate mollie]

well, I did read it, and I didn't see why it's so strong aside you saying your team having a collective strong read.

can you please walk me through it?

I'm not following you Mollie. I would like to but I'm not. I saw you mention you thought he was part of the rush to get Eddie lynched, but aside from that I can't see where you're coming from with GreyICE. I'm pretty convinced you're reading him wrong.

p.Edit: <_< I've been sheeping the largest wagons?? Like, really mollie? Are we playing the same game?

then you have not read #3784 cos I pretty much explained my reasoning in thinking grey is scum in the part to ooba.

eta: also pretty sure #3784!

[pirate mollie]

My point being ZZZX

really

wants to lynch town today.

'tis strange to see such resistance to the lynch of a scumread

.

What do you happen to think of ZZZX and Wguerts, Mollie?

why I quite agree with this!

I don't get why you are not lynched already.

as for zzthing and wguerts I am pretty sure my opinions have not changed since #3784.

Speaking of people not answering my questions, this Mollie. This is you not answering my questions. 3784 is my post, Mollie. You just quoted it.

wait, did you transpose the numbers?

[Zar]

I am telling you that something happened on that scumboard to demotivate the scumteam. scum has got to be in grey/abr cos i am looking at this playerlist and those are the only who I think cld demotivate a scumteam. I think either scum were feeling let down by being hardbussed (and nothing demotivates me faster than getting hardbussed on d1 by a dumb teammate) or some1 was being nasty on the scumboard or mebbe both. I have played against scum!grey but it was over a year ago heck, it might have even been 2 years ago. I am sure he has improved since then. and tbh his play this game looks nothing like I remember but then I died n1. you are clearing him cos of him voting scum consistently and I am telling you that is a bad reason cos grey is from 2010 and I have noticed they on a whole are hardcore bussers. that is why if I am in a game with d3x or kthanx at the first whiff of scum them I look at who they are going after.

I know that the way I reason things out is very foreign to you. I have known this for a while but I think in lost rooms I realized the full extent of it. tere and i make a good hydra cos we have known each other for years and cos we compliment each other's weaknesses. that is probs gonna be a hydra that I use quite often. my point is that I take in little pieces of information and spreadsheet the fuck out of it until I can find a map of commonalities. if you guys saw all of my data collecting you wld most likely have me committed. I find human behaviour analysis to be fascinating and mafia is a gold mine of observations. it has become a hobby of mine to research and collect data and piece it together into a sort of artwork of what I find. some have been bad and some have been successful as far as consistency goes.

so tl;dr - there is a distinct possibility that grey is scum and that scum were demotivated by being hardbussed.

To me that doesn't feel like a reason to have a strong scumread, Mollie, can you please explain where the strength of your read comes from? Honestly, I don't see it and I'm really trying to discern what is it that you're seeing. Like, why do you think all of this necessarily points to GreyICE not hardbussing one but TWO scumbuddies while being doubly bussed back by them? Occam's razor points at the simpler alternative being true here?

[pirate mollie]

I am telling you that something happened on that scumboard to demotivate the scumteam. scum has got to be in grey/abr cos i am looking at this playerlist and those are the only who I think cld demotivate a scumteam. I think either scum were feeling let down by being hardbussed (and nothing demotivates me faster than getting hardbussed on d1 by a dumb teammate) or some1 was being nasty on the scumboard or mebbe both. I have played against scum!grey but it was over a year ago heck, it might have even been 2 years ago. I am sure he has improved since then. and tbh his play this game looks nothing like I remember but then I died n1. you are clearing him cos of him voting scum consistently and I am telling you that is a bad reason cos grey is from 2010 and I have noticed they on a whole are hardcore bussers. that is why if I am in a game with d3x or kthanx at the first whiff of scum them I look at who they are going after.

I know that the way I reason things out is very foreign to you. I have known this for a while but I think in lost rooms I realized the full extent of it. tere and i make a good hydra cos we have known each other for years and cos we compliment each other's weaknesses. that is probs gonna be a hydra that I use quite often. my point is that I take in little pieces of information and spreadsheet the fuck out of it until I can find a map of commonalities. if you guys saw all of my data collecting you wld most likely have me committed. I find human behaviour analysis to be fascinating and mafia is a gold mine of observations. it has become a hobby of mine to research and collect data and piece it together into a sort of artwork of what I find. some have been bad and some have been successful as far as consistency goes.

so tl;dr - there is a distinct possibility that grey is scum and that scum were demotivated by being hardbussed.

To me that doesn't feel like a reason to have a strong scumread, Mollie, can you please explain where the strength of your read comes from? Honestly, I don't see it and I'm really trying to discern what is it that you're seeing. Like, why do you think all of this necessarily points to GreyICE not hardbussing one but TWO scumbuddies while being doubly bussed back by them? Occam's razor points at the simpler alternative being true here?

can you plz elucidate as to why you have grey as town?

[GreyICE]

Hi Mollie! You're ignoring me!

[pirate mollie]

hey grey!

I have answered you!

[GreyICE]

Hey Mollie! You linked to my post!

So when you say you "answered me" am I to take your answer as "fuck off"?

[pirate mollie]

I didn't link yours I linked mine!

how about that!

[pirate mollie]

in case any1 is wondering

it is 3784

[Zar]

can you plz elucidate as to why you have grey as town?

Spoiler: why GI is Town

GreyICE

I think GreyICE's comment to ZZZX's thoughts in 102 reads town on tone. The point on ZZZX's content to contribution ratio in 104 was accurate and valid. I can follow the thought process to pursue Sotty from 119 and the reasoning provided in 140 to strengthen the read. It feels like GreyICE has read between the lines in sotty's response. Thought his 214 regarding sotty seemed like a very detailed, organized case on why Sotty is likely scum here and GreyICE's analysis comes accross as genuine and unbiased in it. And ICE's observation into Eddie's reaction in 317 seems fairly accurtate with what I was thinking so far.

I like GreyICE's comments on Hoopla in 539. I could see how the entry could be interpreted as townish because while it may have been more advantageous to keep a more reserved position early on if there were more vocal and charismatic players around; so mediating and trying to build consensus could have been protown if Hoopla had actually engaged in it.

*EBWOP
To clarify a bit on my post, I meant to what I feel it says about GreyICE.

As far as GreyICE goes, he has him as "holy fuck" town too. He thinks GreyICE's argument regarding Kagami/SilverWolf is something he would expect GreyICE to pursue as town. He really liked his scumread on Kagami, and thinks the suspicion voiced about Hoopla's activity level and not banking on the town plan she laid out was super genuine.

The whole argument on Sotty's OMGUSsy reaction to GreyICE's push and the focus on it reads as her being over-defensive and like a good reason to actually avoid scumhunting or posting other reads.

How exactly is 640 a nice post of hers? The logic used to townread Kagami just feels irrational. Plus, Kagami's logic to jump on GreyICE feels a lot more opportunistic than a valid argument.

Nacho: I agree with you in regards to Kagami in #1129 (my thinking is she could be avoiding looking at a larger picture by focusing on GreyICE and her reads and votes don’t seem to flow naturally.

tbh, I don't really get why Nacho wanted GreyICE to be flipped after Kagami since she and Sotty both flipped scum? Because GreyICE's pushes on both of them and the way Kagami jumped with a chainsaw larger than Jason Vorhees's with the Sotty argument in day one in hindsight basically makes him confirmed innocent.

Thinking this through, this looks a bit like throw everything including the kitchen-sink kinda vote on mollie. Since I really doubt Sotty and GreyICE are partnered based on how everything between them went, I'd expect part of her vote here to be reacting to a vote on a partner more than trying to vote for cred, so I'm guessing Sotty/mollie is unlikely

Mollie why do you think the reasons to towread GI are dumb? He spent a whole awful lot of time convincing everyone and their mother about SilverWolf/Kagami after she jumped at him to defend Sotty.

I think the whole triangular dynamic between GreyICE + Kagami + Sotty points entirely away from this. GreyICE voting Sotty out for the entry and the whole nitpick with the token and the soft direction to Hoopla, Sotty not letting go of the argument as GreyICE kept building up, and then Kagami jumping into the argument when she replaced in looks more like an interaction of a partner defending another from an adversary than a triple partner setup? It looks too risky and unprofitable to me.

Here she's

Kagami

clearing Sotty and ABR tied to a "GI scumflip". We already know Sotty was scum, so maybe ABR/Alch still fits as a partner?

So there's two possible scenarios here:

a) Assuming GI!town, she could have tried to set him up ahead to get him lynched and work from there after, and take a chance to mention a partner or two for potential cred later.

b) Assuming GI!scum she could be trading in a partner for the other one/two (Sotty+ABR), but I feel it would be too high risk and could have blown in her face if her partners weren't able to deliver the goods by looking town as the game progressed.

[Zar]

In other relevant news, I have now decided to start referring to ZZZX as Alexis from now on, because Dynasty is a pretty strong force in this game.

[Zar]

Also Mollie, I gave you the reasoning to my wgeurts vote in 3719.

Fundamentally though, I think we both see the game differently, you apparently emotionally invest yourself while I try to remove myself from all the emotional appeal some players try to charge into the game, considering that it can be used as a means of manipulation.

[GreyICE]

in case any1 is wondering

it is 3784

Okay, so Wguerts is "bringing it in his own way" and "ZZ'thing'" is super town. The scumteam is me and ABR.

'kay. Yep, your read stays right where it is on my list.

[GreyICE]

Actually might drop a spot if WG flips red.

[GreyICE]

Bringing it in his own way my shiny metal ass

[GreyICE]

In other relevant news, I have now decided to start referring to ZZZX as Alexis from now on, because Dynasty is a pretty strong force in this game.

That's my girlfriend's name, don't do this

[Alchemist21]

Nope, I originally wanted him lynched to follow the nacho plan.
But then I accepted a deal that I'd vote MS and that ooba gives me his vote D6 if MS is town.
That and we can freely lynch him without any complaints if MS is town.

Then why did you keep complaining how full of holes the Nacho plan is when it got us 2 scum and from your POV was about to give us a 3rd?

MS,
Still want you lynched.
However it's causing chaos pushing you.

And ZZZX gave a good plan

why do you want me lynched when i am your town read?

why do you want me lynched when i am your town read?

As I then get ooba's vote and a metric tonne of associatives.

I'm town, town mislynch no matter how you word it ALWAYS hinders town.
There is almost never a positive side to it unless you're in a bastard game.

This is a good catch. If wgeurts objection to self-voting was just because he doesn't want Town lynched then he wouldn't be lynching a Townread. (Actually, how long has wgeurts been Townreading MS now? Until this series of posts I still thought he was scumreading him.)

@Mollie, FWIW ABR said something similar about Kagami possibly being demoralized by GreyICE, and he's pulling my ear to tell me the scumteam is Ooba/GI.

GI vs ZZZX continues to confuse the crap out of me, and the longer it drags on the more it sounds like two adults from a Charlie Brown cartoon. The only reason I can recall why Grey is voting ZZZX is because he thinks he's trying to get a scumbuddy into a Townblock through lylo. Why is ZZZX voting GI exactly? *checks back for the original vote*. Oh yeah, Nacho's plan. And then shit happened.

That reminds me of Zar's post a page or 2 back. He said he couldn't believe there was scum motivation in ZZZX pushing this plan so hard. Maybe I'm confbiasing here, but I feel like this shitstorm wouldn't be necessary if the main basis for the vote was just returning to the Nacho plan, even if Z's read on Grey became a scumread after that.

@Mollie; these are a couple reasons for my wgeurts scumread. There's also the issue of how he should have known this was ABR's Town game if he's played that many games with him.

wge if you are town state your venge and hammer. if someone lynched metal in this state it will be a mass confusion which is anti town.

This post is bugging me a bit too. Not for the reason Mollie said though. Why are you asking someone to self-hammer if they're Town? Self-hammering is the definition of anti-Town.

D1:

Kagami (4) -

ZZZX

,

Nachomamma8

,

GreyICE

,

wgeurts

Hoopla (4) -

Seraphim

,

Metal Sonic

,

EddieFenix

,

Kagami

Green = prob town
Blue = town bloc
Red = people i dont mind seeing fried

i dont like how half of hoopla is people i like seeing fried.

Metal join the kagami wagon. I am liking it more atm

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

Metal if I sheep you on hoopla will you sheep me on kagami 2moro?

Kagami wasn't in organic chemistry, I'm not sure what he's talking about.

vezok has made a mistake, he remembered the wrong player

carry on.




@ABR lol we couldnt even get a Hoopla lynch, it's not possible to lynch nacho today regardless

Metal if I sheep you on hoopla will you sheep me on kagami 2moro?

i dont sheep anybody sorry!!

You used to

but If at least 1-2 more join the other wagon I dont mind jumping on it.

Vote:Hoopla

...

D2:

Vote: Kagami

Nacho

Put a vote down zzzy. Let's see where you stand

I shall follow you this once.
VOTE: Nacho
Idk if my mind will change later when i wake up but. my lynch list looks like:

Kagami/serph/nacho.

Most wanted >>> Less wanted

but any is fine so far I believe.

Did anyone notice this about ZZZX? He voted Hoopla despite 2 scumreads on the wagon, and said he wanted Kagami lynched the next Day after Hoopla.

Then

when there was 1 vote on Kagami and 1 vote on Nacho, he voted Nacho.

I'm comfortable with a vote here.

VOTE: ZZZX

This is how my suspicion on ZZZX started and why it stayed. Asking wgeurts to self-vote is bad, but GI has been telling ZZZXthe same thing, so it's probably not as alingment indicative as I thought. What's making that read stick is how he said at the end of D1 he wanted Kagami (scum) lynched D2, but then when presented with the option between Kagami and Nacho (Town) he went with Nacho. I also get the feeling that some of ZZZX's posts in his 1v1 with Grey were trying to discredit Grey. The whole 1v1 seems like an overblown result of ZZZX apparantly going back to the Nacho plan, and I also noticed ZZZX started hard scumreading after deciding to fall back on the Nacho plan. It could be Town confbiasing, but I'm wondering why he felt the need to go into that huge 1v1 for something that I think started out as pretty mechanical.

At first I had a wgeurts/GI scumteam because wgeurts was rerouting his lynchpool around his scumread there, but GI also placed him back at L-1, and even earlier he called me back to the wgeurts wagon when I was the one with the ZZZX vanity wagon. If wgeurts is scum with GI it would mean GI bussed his whole team.