13p Normal [TM2015]

[Malakittens]

Are you fucking kidding me Pie?

ARE YOU?

ARE YOU??

What I was asking has she read the game fully or is she just reading off of my end game of D1?

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THEN?^

[Malakittens]

I think at this point I'm just going to save my breath and ignore Pie. List her as town and just be fucking done with it.

[pieguyn]

yes

I answered that

then you proceeded to assume it was entirely based around the fact you voted TH instead of Thor at the end of D1

and when I claimed that this was, in fact, not the case, you completely ignored me and instead continued claiming it was entirely based around the fact you voted TH instead of Thor at the end of D1

if you actually wanted to engage mastin over her your read on you, you'd actually do it instead of trying to make everyone in the game believe that was all she had on you.

[Malakittens]

Pie I know you have mentioned that Notty is reading this game, but how much has Mara and Mastin read? Whats their take on things?

[Malakittens]

Okay screw you computer.

That quote was me saying I was trying to reach out to you prior. THAT WAS IN DAY 1.

[pieguyn]

except mastin wasn't reading the game, let alone scum reading you, at that point, and notsci (the only person who had read any part of this game at that point) had told me you were town - and I had explicitly said I was not interested in pushing you that day because of notsci's read on you.

so how exactly is that relevant here?

[Malakittens]

Because I was specifically hoping that one of your teammates other than notty would chime in, but no Mastin chimed in after D1. I wanted their thoughts at THAT time.

[pieguyn]

you can't be this dense

mastin
was
not
scum
reading
you
at
that
point
in
the
game

so you claiming this was you reaching out to me in response to me/mastin reading you incorrectly is bullshit

[Malakittens]

you just fucking proved that she didn't read jack during that time.

so i'm very fucking aware that her scumread came on me after D1 ended. You don't seem to get the point I wanted her reads earlier, on a lot of things because she seems to have a good grasps on things, holy fucking shit Pie.

[pieguyn]

.......

this entire argument was about mastin's scum read on you and the way you reacted to it. you claimed you were specifically asking mastin about HER SCUM READ ON YOU. so what does a post you made asking her for reads _before_ she was scum reading you have to do with anything?

[Save The Dragons]

STD I clearly gave reasons why I was townreading Boon, however, it had to wait until it was over before I could post it or I was in direct violation of site rules.

I do remember you saying that but I kind of glazed over it

Your reason for townreading is he reacted the same as this one game, can you be a little more specific? I don't need a post by post comparison. In fact, you could probably just point out what he did that read town to you in both games just in this game.

Do you typically follow games you aren't in?

[Save The Dragons]

sthar8 your egg case moved me about as far as a bicycle with one wheel

if/when you get a chance, examples would be nice

[Save The Dragons]

It actually is a little odd that this:

I'm definitely not voting a D1 PR claim. I've basically been a non-participant with my team but I'm going to ask them what they think about what's going on, esp. Thor.

lead to this:

I talked it over with my team and there's a strong preference for a sthar8 lynch, even though this guy has been flying largely under my radar. They do seem supportive of Trojan as a next-best-lynch. I've been on the fence about Trojan for a while, but I'll give my team some credit on this one. Plus, I'm not about to lynch a D1 PR claim.

which doesn't mention Thor at all (at least, wrt the team, he says "I'm" when he references not voting Thor or Jason).

DW why did your team want to lynch sthar8 D1

[Save The Dragons]

Like, my problem with Mala has very little to do with her actual defense

It's that she spent more time trying to discredit Pie rather than provide why the read is wrong this time

Like if I woke up D2 and found myself the main wagon, I'd be like "holy shit guys, did you not see me be on Thor's ass all day yesterday? I pushed him, and I pushed Delta when I thought he was scum lying about his catch up post, and x and y and z..."

I recognize that Mala probably uses a lot more meta than I do, and thus our playstyles are different, so she's probably not going to do that, but even so, buried in the depths of the game so far, there should be nuggets of Mala's towniness. Has mala provided one such nugget? Has anyone?

If yes, then show me so I can take that into account in my read
If no, then I'm happy where I'm voting

[pieguyn]

so mastin wanted me to convey that she agrees with me that Mala is really really obviously scum

she also wanted me to tell you

@BOON

that ika town reading Mala doesn't mean anything - because Mala _admitted herself_ that she has a lot of experience reading her, and she most decidedly is not. soooo

[pieguyn]

o also, I don't think DW's stance towards Thor is inconsistent but I'll let him explain it instead of doing it myself.

[DeltaWave]

What is the claimed inconsistency? I'm not getting it.

[jasonT1981]

Jason, did you make a Delta case that is more convincing than Pie's town case for Delta? It's entirely possible that I forgot about it.

I made a few mentions day 1 that DW was starting to creep up the list as scum. More and more during day 1 my team was saying to me they thought Boon was town and Delta was scum. DW very early play and refusal to engage in the game was an eye opener. I had said I suspect him as scum but never made a full case, I guess I was too busy tunneling on Boon and defending myself from Thors 'case' against me.

I made the point earlier in this day phase about DWs end of day 1 play that my team brought up in the QT that believed he showed no urgency or care. (need to look at exact words) My town still believe DW is scum and Mala lynch should happen tomorrow if it is to happen and DW today.

I am still V/LA. My dad got rushed to hospital in an ambulance yesterday morning. He was released last night but we are keeping an eye on him so my attention to the game will be minimal for a few days.

[Save The Dragons]

It will probably that I'll end up lynched, I'll have scum on my wagon (which I think is one of SK/Egg) and they'll probably skate by because people will push to lynch those on the TH wagon because apparently "those" on the Thor wagon has reasons to be eliminated as scum partners. Egg's elimination is a horrible reason to not read someone as a scum partner. It's a bad read IMO. Not to mention there's been people "eliminated" as scum on the TH wagon for reasons that don't essentially make sense either.

On the thor wagon there is:

Me who I know is town
Fen who was town
Pie who appears really townie and I cannot fathom at this point bussing
sthar8 who picked a really odd time to bus his partner if he's scum
SK is meh
Egg who seemed to be reading the game critically D1
Trojan who was the counter wagon

Off there's
Jason who could be a bus target by thor but probably isn't
Delta who seems town but also hasn't done much
Vyse who's done like nothing
Mala who I have discussed already
Boon who keeps poking in to take random potshots and deflect attacks due to meta but who really isn't actually doing anything

For me, the decision to townread the players on the Thor wagon wasn't arbitrary or simply because they voted thor. If you get lynched and are town it's not like we're going to ignore that fact. For now, though, I legit haven't seen a case on Egg that I liked, nor a case on anyone else on the Thor wagon. I've seen reasons to scumread you and Boon, I'm wary of Vyse kind of fluttering about (for all I know he walked into the game, saw two wagons and voted on the one that wasn't his scum buddy), I'm kind of reading Delta as town but I'm also unsure.

[Save The Dragons]

Me who

m

I know is town

practically a scum claim right there

[Egg]

Jason, "no" would have worked fine.

[Trojan Horse]

What is the claimed inconsistency? I'm not getting it.

Not an inconsistency per se, but still, not what I would've expected you to say if you were town.

Some of your key posts from earlier:

I talked it over with my team and there's a strong preference for a sthar8 lynch, even though this guy has been flying largely under my radar. They do seem supportive of Trojan as a next-best-lynch. I've been on the fence about Trojan for a while, but I'll give my team some credit on this one. Plus, I'm not about to lynch a D1 PR claim.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Trojan

L-1

Horrible, horrible idea to lynch a PR claim D1. There is no excuse for this wagon.

Delta, can you link to a previous example of you refusing to lynch a D1 PR claim (or a discussion in which you state that you would refuse to lynch a D1 PR claim)?

Apparently the last game I played was Event Card Mafia in April 2014, but I got replaced out due to inactivity. Before that, my last game was Jason's British Royal Family Kingmaker in Feb of 2013. So, in the past two years I've played two games not counting my current games. I really don't remember if I have any examples of that.

Thor's lynch was ultimately good but I still stand by my principle that I won't lynch a D1 PR claim (unless it is directly counterclaimed.)

None of the above bother me, but now all of a sudden, your defense is this:

I have a null read on Delta. I have to consider him a suspect, since he jumped onto my bandwagon at the end of day 1.

Well that's thanks to Greyice, who also told me that Thor was town. Thanks GreyIce.

1. You didn't mention this before. You talked about your teammates supporting my lynch as a consolation lynch, but you didn't say any of your teammates were reading Thor as town.

2. I wouldn't have been bothered if you had said "Oh, I forgot to mention, GreyICE told me that Thor was town." This new post makes it sound like GreyICE's read was your

primary

reason for not voting for Thor. That's not what you said before.

3. I'm surprised that you felt a need to defend yourself at all. My post was not attacking you. I was saying I didn't want to lynch you, because you felt more town to me than the other people on my wagon.

This looks like a case of scum making a new story because he forgot he already made a story.

UNVOTE: Vyse

I'm pondering a Delta vote now...

[Save The Dragons]

DW why did your team want to lynch sthar8 D1

deltaaaaaaaa

[DeltaWave]

I'm not really sure why. The consensus seemed to be that Thor was a one-shot cop fakeclaiming hider, and that Trojan and sthar were scummy.

You didn't mention this before. You talked about your teammates supporting my lynch as a consolation lynch, but you didn't say any of your teammates were reading Thor as town.

So what? Like I said before, I wasn't sheeping them as to whether Thor was town or scum. I did take their advice however as to an alternative wagon, since I will not lynch a D1 PR claim as a matter of policy.

I wouldn't have been bothered if you had said "Oh, I forgot to mention, GreyICE told me that Thor was town." This new post makes it sound like GreyICE's read was your primary reason for not voting for Thor. That's not what you said before.

You're assuming way, way too much. If you really are town then your case shouldn't be based on making up shit to fill a gap so you can make a jump.

I'm surprised that you felt a need to defend yourself at all. My post was not attacking you. I was saying I didn't want to lynch you, because you felt more town to me than the other people on my wagon.

Again, you're assuming too much. This time you're assuming that I was "defending" myself. I was making a comment, nothing more.

[pieguyn]

I'm pondering a Delta vote now...

no don't do this please. as he said in his response, it was moreso about his teammates collectively thinking Thor wasn't the correct lynch (which he alluded to when he first voted TH) - GreyICE town reading him isn't inconsistent with this.

and besides, I really do believe (as he said) him commenting on it was more a throwaway comment than anything