Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)


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Post Post #350 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:51 am

Post by Plotinus »

In post 342, Bellaphant wrote:
@bbt, you mentioned my rvs joke with ric: we're playing together in a concurrent game. His response was also a reference to this. I did explain this to farside, but I don't think your catch-up is there yet!


woah, bella, I totally missed that you guys were still playing that other game. there's a rule about talking about ongoing games so you need to be super careful because you can get modkilled over it. saying that you two are in an ongoing game together is ok I think but any more than that isn't. if your rvs joke was made based on a game that isn't completed, it probably crossed the line because it could affect people's reads of you both in both games. Keep that game stuff in that game until it's finished and this game stuff stays here until this is finished.

Your reads of each other may be affected by the concurrent game thing and that's ok because it's not something you can help but don't talk about it out loud and as the game progresses and you have more to go on, try to base your reads on this game only.

this comment is based on some stuff a mod told me privately when I had a similar problem.
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Post Post #351 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:56 am

Post by Bellaphant »

:D Plot, thanks, I know now it was a mistake (as was ric's response, probably) but people keep asking me about it! I'm just gonna link them to a previous answer now, and hope the mod is ok with that?
appologies mod! Does that sound like a good strategy?
I've not made reference to it out of a) the joke and b) people asking me about the joke! Does that make sense?
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Post Post #352 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:01 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

I feel like if we all assumed bellaphant was a bert alt we wouldn't be scum reading her.

Meh.
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Post Post #353 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:02 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

I also want it explicitly noted that farside is a scum read of mine
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Post Post #354 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:04 am

Post by farside22 »

That's nice.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #355 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:08 am

Post by Bellaphant »

Bert alt? Can you explain a bit more for those not in the know?
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Post Post #356 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:09 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- Catch up from Wrong Song. Me no likey.

Most of the beginning of it is fluff. Stuff not worth saying.

I hate the reads. I don't know how he is town reading Bella, I know he explains it as gut, and this bothers me. I also disagree that Lane and Conman are scum; I'm thinking they're both town.

I see you said you can't explain your town read on Ricastle but I would really like you to give it a go.

- Con is town. He's town because he is struggling for reads; I kind of felt the same way when I was catching up. As scum, it would be very easy for him to fake some reads because he knows everyone's alignments. Con is trying to figure the game out, he is town. I'm gonna be looking at his wagon closely when I catch up fully.

- I like FA for town as well.

- Ha, I don't like this though. If this is the basis for the Con wagon, I'd bet my life that scum are on it.

- Bella also thinking Con and Lane are scum. I don't like this either. Con and Lane are both pretty easy targets at this moment for scum.

They're also both town.

The timing of this vote on Con is scummy as fuck.

I think Bella is toDay's lynch.

VOTE: Bella

- This is town as fuck. Con is town.
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Post Post #357 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:19 am

Post by RationalMadman »

I genuinely cannot find a single townslip or scumslip or anything form anyone. This is unusual for me.
Everyone's a fool in some ways, we all can only try.

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Post Post #358 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:20 am

Post by RationalMadman »

Plotinus' attitude, however, is what I call 'over the top' style of scum-play. The typical tryhard scum attitude. Overdoes any explanation etc.
Everyone's a fool in some ways, we all can only try.

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Post Post #359 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:21 am

Post by RationalMadman »

But then again tryhards can be VERY useful town members so I really am struggling here.
Everyone's a fool in some ways, we all can only try.

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Post Post #360 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:31 am

Post by Ricastle »

In post 346, TheReverend wrote:lane's #119 is good. I defintely get a sense of sincerity here. ricastle's #126 is not, that's an overly defensive reaction.

Plotinus is complaining about the fake scum claim from choof. I get a sense of sincerity here too, this is exactly how I feel about the matter.

ricastle seems keen to ensure people see it as nothing more than a joke, which is interesting. My natural reaction is to consider the frame of mind where the comment comes from... the motivation behind it. Did he post it to amuse, or confuse? I know I don't like it, but I'm not going to pretend to have figured out the motivation behind it yet. ricastle seems to have figured it out though.

ricastle is scum.

Up to p6, back later.
Wether choof is town or scum, was a joke, bottom line. There is no logical motivation for making such a post for any alignment so nothing decisive can really be made of it. That was what was being contested and I stand by my position.

I won't pretend, I was definitely too aggressive with my attitude in . It was late night and I was tired. Not much I can do about it now.

BBT is town. Love this catchup.
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Post Post #361 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:33 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- Oh dear Farside, wtf is this shit?

Can you explain your town reads on Senator, Wrong and Choof? Senator in particular feels like scum sliding by unnoticed. Saying the right things without actually doing anything.

- This is weak, Farside. Not impressed with these two posts at all.

- Farside, join me in lynching Bella? You're scum reading her and Con is town. Show me you're town.

- Bella, can you quote posts from Ric that made you town read him please. Can you make sure all of the posts you quote come before post 98 as well.

I don't like you looking for direction from Farside either. The wording here is very strange;
think wrong/flub and probably ric are town

This is strange because you seem to have been town reading Ric all game. Yet, when you list your town reads, not only is he not your first town read you state but he is a 'probably' town. That doesn't fit with your play so far this game.
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Post Post #362 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:47 am

Post by Ricastle »

Speaking of that, Bella, why IS Flub town?
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Post Post #363 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:50 am

Post by Senator »

I'd like to see the replacements when they aren't catching up, but so far they seem okay.
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Post Post #364 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:54 am

Post by Plotinus »

Spoiler: @BBT
re , yeah I see it.

Not sure what to make of Ricastle/choof/lane, none of them are in my townread pile though. My early feelings:

I think choof responded to my vote as well as he could have, and I liked his interaction with flubbernugget too in and .

I was surprised that Ricastle felt as strongly about my push on choof as he did but I'm glad that both of us have moved on because could you imagine us still jabbering about it on page 30? We can necro the joke when choof flips; sooner than that is pointless.

About the bit you asked me to comment on, I think that scum would definitely think things like:

In post 126, Ricastle wrote:
I would have gladly got on a Flubber wagon if this idiot hadn't gone and exposed himself. Sorry guys.


Saying it in their out loud voice is dumb, though.

with lane i'm back and forth between "he has a point there" "yeah he's right about this thing" and "i can see why people are squinting at him"

For example, I did like Bella's push on lane in .


tl;dr: yeah I see it.



I also liked TheReverend's entrance.

@Bella: now you know. I would advise that the rest of us stop talking about it and that if people do bring it just change the subject: start talking about your this-game impressions. if people don't drop it say "I don't want to discuss ongoing games" and leave it at that. can't change the past. but ask this game's mod for help if you need it, they don't bite.

there's plenty of other posts in this game to talk about after all.

Spoiler: @RationalMadman
I'm still new enough that it's hard for me to tell for sure, and you only have my word to go on, but I think I'm tryhard regardless of alignment, but most of the tryhard gets funnelled to a private thread if I have access to one. I have one completed game as town on site and one completed game offsite where I was recruited to a cult on night 1 and I typed a ridiculous amount of tryhard speculation about the town in private. If I'd been able to type that much about other topics I might have done better in uni all those years ago, that was the amount of typing that happened.

Anyway, regardless of what decision you come to about my alignment, you should know that I don't have a lot of experience here or elsewhere so I'm not the best target for sheeping. I'm getting better each game but being able to explain what's in my head is not the same as being accurate. If we each do
our own
best, the town'll do well. If we all do
my
best, we're in trouble.


tl;dr: tryhard is probably a nulltell for me.

This ended up kinda long so I used spoilers.
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Post Post #365 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:54 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 355, Bellaphant wrote:Bert alt? Can you explain a bit more for those not in the know?

Check his posting style. You can also look up Antihero: Redemption. I think it's theme mini 1619
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Post Post #366 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:56 am

Post by Senator »

@BBT

In post 341, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:143 - Senator, I don't get the 'Ricastle is correcting people' comment. Is that somehow alignment indicative? Also, I disagree that Ricastle hasn't taken opportunities to look town.

They aren't simply sheeping people, aren't trying to paint everyone scummy and appear to be following their own set of town and scum tells. I like their activity, save that 'I would vote Flubber but look at this' line in 126 and post 30. Both of those seem too eager to keep scumreads on the backburner.

Can you show where they took easy towncredit?

In post 361, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Senator in particular feels like scum sliding by unnoticed. Saying the right things without actually doing anything.

Are you now scumreading me? Could you elaborate on why? I don't think I understand.

@Madman

In post 358, RationalMadman wrote:Plotinus' attitude, however, is what I call 'over the top' style of scum-play. The typical tryhard scum attitude. Overdoes any explanation etc.

Is this like people find Conman? He has a wordy style of play.

What do you think of BBT and Bella thus far?
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Post Post #367 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:57 am

Post by Senator »

In post 364, Plotinus wrote:tl;dr: tryhard is probably a nulltell for me.

What do you mean? How are you tryhard, Plotinus?
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Post Post #368 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:18 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- I'll lynch this.

Right now.

- It is scummy. But it's scummy coming from a town mindset.
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Post Post #369 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:33 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- Senator, can you clarify your reads on these players, I hate ambiguity.

Are FA, Conman, Bella and Lane scum reads or not? Same for Wrong.

- Choof, my post is the scummiest post of the game so far...and it's not worth your vote?

What?

- No, how about you catch up and read the game before finding out where everyone stands so you can tailor your reads accordingly? Thanks.

Papi, you had an early town read on Choof, which was weak, and now you have sheeped Choof's attack on me. I'm watching you.

- Yes, I did jump on your wagon. But now I have realized you're very obviously town so I will fight to the death to prevent your lynch.

You're welcome.

- I'm on board with the policy lynch of Vettrock.
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Post Post #370 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:37 am

Post by Plotinus »

In post 367, Senator wrote:
In post 364, Plotinus wrote:tl;dr: tryhard is probably a nulltell for me.

What do you mean? How are you tryhard, Plotinus?


Spoiler: I never shut up
I write a lot. Maybe too much, but early on in my first completed game people were having trouble understanding where I was coming from until I figured out how to explain what I was thinking, and after that things improved because if I was misunderstanding or misreading something and my argument was based on that, then people could see where I was going wrong instead of just seeing that was writing nonesense, so it made it easier to resolve town vs town misunderstandings, at least some of the time anyway.

For example, in my first game, people were talking about tunnelling (post 90-93) and I didn't understand what that meant, and I thought one was accusing the other of tunnelling, but they were neither accusing nor tunnelling, so I butted in with a comment nobody understood but when I finally managed to explain myself they explained themselves to me and then we all understood each other. Since then, I try to skip the "what the hell Plotinus" step by just explaining what I'm thinking in the first place.

Most of my posts will probably be either on the topic of trying to understand other people, or trying to help other people understand me. (latter one, this time.)

It's early in this game, but later on I will probably go through at least one person's ISO without skimming and comment on every single post they've written. I'll use links not quotes and it'll be behind a spoiler with a summary outside of it. I don't think I'm immune to confirmation bias but really thorough ISO reading can change my mind about a person in either direction, but I'll need to finish a few more games before I'll know if I'm right and I'm still refining my reads-gathering methods to find what works best for me. My accuracy was lousy in my first game but I think I learned a lot from my mistakes in that game so I'll do better here, for a n00b anyway.

I'm already doing some ISO reading but it's still at the getting to know everyone stage, so at this point I'm primarily just looking for something to talk to them about to help me get a read on them.
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Post Post #371 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:39 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- Farside, you want me to be town this game? Why did you say this?

- This vote is weak. This is the best you can do at this point of the game? Really?

- Explain town read on Bella please Farside?

- Reverend is very likely to be SK, and if not, he is scum. Most of the time, when people are hunting a SK it's because they are one or they're scum concerned with who can kill them.
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Post Post #372 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:45 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- Can you expand on this read Flubber. I can see it but want to know why you're scum reading her.

- RMM, you have read the entire game?

- Yes, Senator. I'm scum reading you.

I've finally caught up.

Thoughts incoming.
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Post Post #373 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:45 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

OK, firstly I'm gonna go back and make sure everyone has answered what I asked of them. Please check my catch up for anything that might pertain to you.
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Post Post #374 (ISO) » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:46 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Actually, I'm not doing that now.

That would be dumb.

Will give everyone time to respond.

Thoughts/reads incoming.
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