Mini 1653: A Game of Pokes - game over

[Iknal]

evilpacman18 replaces Saul Goode, effective immediately.

Deadline has been extended 48 hours.

Vote Count 2.7

OkaPoka(4): havingfitz, FA_Q2, Wickedestjr, Formerfish
randomidget(3): massive, evilpacman18, vikingfan
vikingfan(1): randomidget
Kop(2): OkaPoka, Aristophanes

Not voting: Kop

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline on 30/4/15 1900 UTC+10.
(expired on 2015-04-30 19:00:00)

[OkaPoka]

@MOD there is an error in your votecount

randomidget(4): massive, evilpacman18, vikingfan

there are only 3 players voting him

Fixed. Thanks

[Formerfish]

Wicked. If we tell Rando to shoot Kop and Kop is a town PR he is going to out himself to avoid dying, which is just as bad.

Kop replaced Kelbris, and Kelbris claimed to be a VT as I recall. So this point is invalid. Oka also claimed to be VT so if we're going to instruct rando to kill someone without risking outing a PR, those are our only options.

Fair enough, that was a bad example to use. Wicked is looking to shoot outside those two though. So my idea is still valid.

[evilpacman18]

unvote

Sup

[Formerfish]

Hi epm, have fun catching up.

[Aristophanes]

Wicked. If we tell Rando to shoot Kop and Kop is a town PR he is going to out himself to avoid dying, which is just as bad.

I mean, he's got a vt claim and said he is alright with being the target...

[Aristophanes]

Yo! EPM! Long time no see!

[Randomnamechange]

Viking, he just said that he thinks that Oka is town. I would like to know when that read changed and why though. If Rando thought he was lynched already he obviously wasn't reading, so why the change in stance?

I've been towbreading oka for a while....

More to the point, he says in his first post that he thought he was already lynched but will catch up. 5 minutes later he's already caught up and has an about-face that oka is town? that doesn't sound right. If he genuinely wasn't reading enough to know that he was still alive, 5 minutes is not enough to both catch up and do a change in stance.

This was precatching up. They were general thoughts on the game.

[Kop]

there are so many reasons why we shouldn't decide the kill.

but mainly that allows scum to manipulate the very own pr's shot we have in place. and im having none of that.

And how exactly would scum manipulate the pr's shot? With a redirector? Well, redirectors aren't normal. With a role blocker? Well, that's not really a problem here either. If scum role blocked random's shot, then we don't have to worry about a mis-kill. If scum let random shoot, thinking he would hit town, then the worst case scenario is that a scummy player dies and we can lynch somebody else instead - which isn't too terrible considering we lost our cop already.

Also, if random is a one shot vig and we kept him alive and allowed him to shoot whoever he wanted, then he could accidentally shoot another town power role. If we tell him who to shoot, that is no longer an issue.

Do you have any confidence whatsoever that rando would actually make the kill? Given his posting, I can't be sure that he would do it.

I think, if he's a one shot vigilante, then he would shoot who we told him to, with the condition that he gets lynched otherwise. He's useless, but not rebellious.

And then we're up a creek without a paddle because say he doesn't make the kill. is it due to lack of activity or due to him being scum or ?

If there's no shot, then you don't have to worry about a mis-kill... The lack of a kill doesn't seem like a problem worth discussing right now- it sounds like tomorrow's business.

No, it is terrible for him to reveal the target because it directly allows them to manipulate the power.

They can choose whether or not to roll block it based on the target or whether or not to kill him based on his target. Essentially it would give the scum team the information they need to decide if role blocking is something they should do or are they going to get another dead townie out of it.

It is unlikely that he will end up taking out a scum – declaring it beforehand is almost like protecting scum from his ability.

How high in confidence do you know that there is a roleblocker in this particular game?

Wicked. If we tell Rando to shoot Kop and Kop is a town PR he is going to out himself to avoid dying, which is just as bad.

Kop replaced Kelbris, and Kelbris claimed to be a VT as I recall. So this point is invalid. Oka also claimed to be VT so if we're going to instruct rando to kill someone without risking outing a PR, those are our only options.

I've already claimed VT. And have already said, I don't mind being the one to take the shot, but I'd rather him not shoot me to keep me alive so that I can help the town, catch scum, but if it is for the greater good, then I'll stand up and take the bullet.

[Formerfish]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: okapoka

Forgot this game resrarted -_-'

VOTE: vikingfan
Still omgusing.
Also that was the friendliest prod ive ever recieved iknal.

This game is boring. There is scum in the people trying to influence people on the nk.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: oka
did it for the vine

Tbh there is very little going on today and in my opinion big wagons hrlp generate content.

To be honest, there is very little meaningful discussion goinng on. I do have a couple of scumreads and I will be reconsidering my vote once I check a few things.

Tbh there is very little going on today and in my opinion big wagons hrlp generate content.

soooooooooooo...


601

Don't remember. Sorry but I'm legitimately not sure.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: vikingfan
case tomorrow.

1-shot vig.
Sorry I haven't been able to contribute much.
Thay was a town posr from fa.

For some reason I thought I got lynched...
Will catch up.

ALRIGHT, i'm inclined to agree with wicked that kop and oka are town. If we look at criteria people have for suspecting people today, vikingfan fits all of them (on monkey wagon, medium conyent lecels, etc.) my vote is sticking.

Viking, he just said that he thinks that Oka is town. I would like to know when that read changed and why though. If Rando thought he was lynched already he obviously wasn't reading, so why the change in stance?

I've been towbreading oka for a while....

More to the point, he says in his first post that he thought he was already lynched but will catch up. 5 minutes later he's already caught up and has an about-face that oka is town? that doesn't sound right. If he genuinely wasn't reading enough to know that he was still alive, 5 minutes is not enough to both catch up and do a change in stance.

This was precatching up. They were general thoughts on the game.

You've been town reading Oka for awhile? Show me where you say that anywhere in your ISO, cause I don't see it.

[Randomnamechange]

Forgot to post it. I only really voted oka because it seemed like the one way of advancing the game.

[Formerfish]

...

[massive]

Also, if random is a one shot vig and we kept him alive and allowed him to shoot whoever he wanted, then he could accidentally shoot another town power role. If we tell him who to shoot, that is no longer an issue.

Why do you think that us directing random's shot would be any better at avoiding a town power role?

Wicked. If we tell Rando to shoot Kop and Kop is a town PR he is going to out himself to avoid dying, which is just as bad.

This is essentially what would happen, yes.

---

I gotta say, I don't like how (a) random's claim has prompted a discussion of how to use his kill, but nothing about who to kill and (b) how it's essentially derailed us from scumhunting. I don't see any indication that random (a) if he is town that he will willingly take the shot we call or (b) is actually town / working for the town. So I think honestly I'm happy with my vote where it is.

[Kop]

This is essentially what would happen, yes..

I have already said that i am a Vt. Why would I say any different? And I would happy to take the shot so that it doesn't take away a town pr.

[Formerfish]

Wicked. If we tell Rando to shoot Kop and Kop is a town PR he is going to out himself to avoid dying, which is just as bad.

Kop replaced Kelbris, and Kelbris claimed to be a VT as I recall. So this point is invalid. Oka also claimed to be VT so if we're going to instruct rando to kill someone without risking outing a PR, those are our only options.

Fair enough, that was a bad example to use. Wicked is looking to shoot outside those two though. So my idea is still valid.

Kop, did you read this post? This is still a thing that makes sense. Massive was agreeing with me that in theory my statement is true.

[havingfitz]

I'm getting confused with all the shot discussion. I do not think we should point the ~vig kill.
I'm more interested in seeing if two kills happen N2 which would basically confirm random idgit's claim (since I doubt there would be an SK who past up a kill).
Curious to hear Wicked's response to the question about roleblockers (Oka or random Idigit asked I think) and to hear EPM's thoughts.
Otherwise happy where vote is and waiting for the day to end.

[FA_Q2]

there are so many reasons why we shouldn't decide the kill.

but mainly that allows scum to manipulate the very own pr's shot we have in place. and im having none of that.

And how exactly would scum manipulate the pr's shot? With a redirector? Well, redirectors aren't normal. With a role blocker? Well, that's not really a problem here either. If scum role blocked random's shot, then we don't have to worry about a mis-kill. If scum let random shoot, thinking he would hit town, then the worst case scenario is that a scummy player dies and we can lynch somebody else instead - which isn't too terrible considering we lost our cop already.

Also, if random is a one shot vig and we kept him alive and allowed him to shoot whoever he wanted, then he could accidentally shoot another town power role. If we tell him who to shoot, that is no longer an issue.

Do you have any confidence whatsoever that rando would actually make the kill? Given his posting, I can't be sure that he would do it.

I think, if he's a one shot vigilante, then he would shoot who we told him to, with the condition that he gets lynched otherwise. He's useless, but not rebellious.

And then we're up a creek without a paddle because say he doesn't make the kill. is it due to lack of activity or due to him being scum or ?

If there's no shot, then you don't have to worry about a mis-kill... The lack of a kill doesn't seem like a problem worth discussing right now- it sounds like tomorrow's business.

No, it is terrible for him to reveal the target because it directly allows them to manipulate the power.

They can choose whether or not to roll block it based on the target or whether or not to kill him based on his target. Essentially it would give the scum team the information they need to decide if role blocking is something they should do or are they going to get another dead townie out of it.

It is unlikely that he will end up taking out a scum – declaring it beforehand is almost like protecting scum from his ability.

How high in confidence do you know that there is a role blocker in this particular game?

I can’t say anything in ‘high confidence’ about the setup and I was quite clear about it in my statements. It is simply likely that they do have such a role as it is an often used scum role. That is not the only possibility for allowing them control over the role though.

[FA_Q2]

Forgot to post it. I only really voted oka because it seemed like the one way of advancing the game.

This is bad – very bad. I really do not trust a damn thing you say. You come up with the worst excuses for things.

[vikingfan]

Forgot to post it. I only really voted oka because it seemed like the one way of advancing the game.

So you first think oka is bad news and promise to post a case on him? Then you never do. Now oka is town and you just conveniently forget? And you think you're lynched (without actually reading the game) so stop playing rather than checking back in. And you still haven't commented on whether or not you're willing to commit to proving your ability to shoot someone if we give you the opportunity?

I'm very happy with my vote at present. Rando is all over the place with no consistency whatsoever. We don't take things for granted here 'this is what I thought'. The only way for us to know what you're thinking is for you to post it. I hope, no matter what you are, you've learned something about playing mafia this game.

Also, why did you not begin commenting on all the stuff going on here rather than one line hit and runs?

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: Rando
You are doing nothing to help yourself. Your Oka read is contradictory. Your only saving grace is your questionable claim.
I'm okay with a Kop or Oka lynch if you will shoot the other of the two, but you seem unwilling to.

This game has to move forward and your deaths (hopefully with scum flips) seem the only way to do so.
Either vig the living of the two or get lynched. The choice is yours.

I'll be on others after today, but this needs to be done today else scum will win frim stagnation.

[havingfitz]

OK...so we have a little less than 2 days till deadline. Realistically based on the comments I have seen today it looks like the lynch will be from the group of random Idigit, Kop or Oka.

And of those three...I can not see town at least giving random Idgit the chance to prove he is town. Even at the risk of his ~vig shot being a miskill. Unless there was a surefire way of knowing he was going to target scum there is no avoiding the chance his claimed shot results in a miskill. If we knew 100% who a scum kill for him would be we would just lynch that person.

So massive, Former and Aristo are all wasting their votes IMO unless they are scum and genuinely concerned that random Idigit is telling the truth. If random Idgit were to be today's lynch and flip vig...we would the stupidest town I have played with in memory and have accomplished little or nada. At least if we avoid random Idgit today we still would have the chance of hitting scum (regardless of whether the claim is true or not).

If we aren't willing to allow him to prove his claim then his claim is basically worthless and he should be considered a lynch candidate.

That said...and in summary...I think we have to avoid lynching random Idgit today and allow him the chance to prove himself.

And I still prefer Oka over Kop, mainly because my suspicions towards kelbris had started to lessen a bit before he replaced out. Though I can't remember why. Probably because Oka and random Idigt were working harder to get lynched.

[Formerfish]

How exactly am I wasting my vote?

[Aristophanes]

But didn't he say he wouldn't be usi g his shot?
Ergo, cannot/will not prove himself tn.

That's why the vote from me.

[Formerfish]

^ that never happened.

And that is not a reason why you stated your vote changed to him.

[Aristophanes]

^ that never happened.

And that is not a reason why you stated your vote changed to him.

Oh.

Did I imagine that? I distinctly remember it :S