Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Quilford]

To be brutally honest, part of it is because your posts have been pretty bad today (combined with flashes of towniness from ETL/Molla).

Which ones? The teammate ones?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, something I've been thinking about: why didn't you put any scum tokens into this game? Given you seem to 1) think your scum game is the best thing on Earth, 2) much, much prefer being scum to town.

Because that would have been a waste.

[Quilford]

Maybe we

should

just lynch me today. It would force BB and ETL to re-evaluate tomorrow in LYLO, and that would probably increase our chances in the worst-case scenario that one of Mina and Patrick are scum, or otherwise more clearly distinguish which one of them is town and which one of them is scum by scrutinising the genuineness of their re-evaluations. Plus it would take the responsibility for finding the last scum out of my hands, and I would just feel generally vindicated haha

[Mina]

I just reread the BBmolla exchange, and now I changed my mind on it sounding like scum flailing and I don't think anyone is scum. Help.

[Mina]

1623 and 1624 in particular make pretty solid points.

[Quilford]

I genuinely don't think they raise solid points at all. I think coming into Day 2 and launching into the next mislynch, as Molla insists he would have as scum in #1623, would be an obviously scum move to do. At the start of Day 2, the lynch with a tonne of momentum behind it had just flipped town, one of our power roles was senselessly dead and two of the seven alive players were inactive.

Everyone

was reassessing. No town player would have had the certainty to start pushing a new suspect, and nobody did for a while.

Out of all of BB's recent posts I find those two the least convincing and least town, so I'm curious as to why you disagree.

Also can you answer my question in #1675 please.

[Quilford]

And also, they're weirdly self-contradictory?

Molla says that as scum he would've jumped straight into the next mislynch, and not sat around and twiddled his thumbs. But in fact that's

exactly what he did

, voting for me after just 30 hours in the day on a case you yourself thought was opportunistic-looking and exemplified his scum meta??

[Quilford]

fuaaarrrrkkk

[Patrick]

I posted in the PT when I made that post and have not gotten a response yet. I already posted why I think you're scum multiple times. I'm gonna be honest and say the last thing I feel like doing is arguing with YOU about my case on YOU. If Mina, Patrick or BB wants to know, they can ask me themselves. YOU can go fuck yourself.

I already asked you a bunch of stuff about it in 1585, which you just ignored. In general I don't feel like you're scrutinising your own points at all. Like this

Despite being the towniest fucking town to ever town, it is no wonder she is still around. You needed her.

Yeah. Or it might have been the two power roles that needed nightkilling instead. Do you actually have a brain

Really obvious reason for lack of Mina nightkill, just ignored by you so you could respond to the insult instead.

Mina: I know you don't have alot of freetime atm, but we need more from you than "I don't think anyone is scum right now". At least something more specific than just thinking Quilfords posts today are bad. What specifically do you find bad? Do you think my look at partner interactions has any merit, either re Johnny looking awkward around bbmolla, or looking like he was sucking up to Quilford? Do you think it is just possible that Quilford bought a much better scumgame here than he ever has before? Give me something. I'd honestly rather you just spill your mind than worry about whether its going to be 100% convincing right now.

Currently I feel as though everyone has had flashes of town in their play at the very least, but that doesn't mean they're all equal to each other. The main reason I think the scum is in bbmolla/ETL is because there's a probably easier to fake than those from Quilford/Mina. Quilford looks nothing like any scumgame I've read of his (he's made like literally 20x more posts than Mafia in the metro and sounds completely different), and his play at the end of yesterday feels like someone genuinely in the dark about alignments, the way he meandered onto ETL then back to Johnny looks undecided not calculated. I think Mina also felt very genuine towards the end of the day, attacked me in a way that looked like paranoid town, seems pissed off and anxious in a way that looks like paranoid town etc etc blahblahblah. The person with probably the easiest to fake towniness is ETL, I think. Mainly my gut seems to find it vaguely town whenever someone gets aggressive, swears, yells, or similar, but I think ETL could play aggressively as scum. There's a few things that give me pause, like serra's read on ETL and the fact that she pushed Johnny for a while yesterday, but I don't think they are close to the towness I get from Mina/Quilford. Like, if I was afraid to think someone was scum just because they'd given me pause, I'd likely never vote anybody (even lurkerscum extraordinaire serrapaldin managed to look kinda genuine on leaving the game, but you have to be pragmatic at some point).

I do agree bbmolla looks kind of genuine in some of his appeals today. But I've skimmed some of his scum games, including the one Mina linked to before, and I think faking the suicidal pissed off schitck isn't beyond him. His interactions with our dead scum look the worst of all the players imo, and his case on Quilford is pretty empty so far. I don't know which of bbmolla or ETL I think is more likely at this point, and god only knows what I'd do if forced to pick between them in an endgame. My team think it's bbmolla at this point.

tldr; Mina, I would like to hear more from you about something. If you want to call my reads boring/annoying/scummy than have at it, but please try and make some time to get your head into this. I know you have alot going on but I think a replacement would be horrible at this stage.

[Mina]

I'm sorry, but I'm at work right now, getting absolutely nothing done because I'm awful, and I shouldn't even be ON mafiascum. That's why all I had to say about Quilford was a one-liner. The super-short version is that it's a combination of some of the teammate interaction stuff not fully adding up, posts with ETL that felt more like a pissing contest and deliberately antagonizing her, and I guess being kind of rigid/objective rather than fluid/organic in the kinds of things he finds scummy (which is sort of what Regfan didn't like about Quilford's attack on Alchemist early D1, although last I checked he was townreading Quilford). I just can't communicate very effectively right now.

And I haven't reread D2 at all (yes, my impression then was the same, that he was REALLY obviously town--also agree that the "meandering" between JF and ETL looked very natural). I'm just kind of terrified I'm underestimating Quilford.

(The partnership stuff I mostly agree with, but I don't want to go too in-depth now so I'll wait until I've actually reread.)

[Quilford]

SIGH.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I didn't mean right this second when timezones clearly suggest you're at work. I just mean in general, I think your comments are important

[Patrick]

I'm just kind of terrified I'm underestimating Quilford.

This is sort of how I feel. I think I just hate the thought of him winning if he;s scum at lynch-1 based on my defence of him. But I don't think there's any real substance to that fear.

[BBmolla]

This fell to the bottom of my priorities sorry

I'll get stuff out today

[zoraster]

Day 3

BBMolla ( 1 )

Mina

[/color]

(L - 2 )

*** Quilford ( 2 ) ***

BBMolla

EspeciallyTheLies

[/color]

(L - 1 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 2 )

Patrick Quilford

Total Votes ( 5 )

Needed to Lynch [ 3 ]

Deadline: May 12th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-05-12 20:00:00)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

really.... we are going to push this to deadline?

[BBmolla]

i have no excuse

[Quilford]

Molla, go answer my question in #1648 please

[Quilford]

But I don't think there's any real substance to that fear.

Good. Coz there really isn't.

[Quilford]

Molla have you read this page?

[Patrick]

The stop-start feel to this day is annoying.

ETL, was this comment genuine:

I already posted why I think you're scum multiple times. I'm gonna be honest and say the last thing I feel like doing is arguing with YOU about my case on YOU.

If Mina, Patrick or BB wants to know, they can ask me themselves.

YOU can go fuck yourself.

[Quilford]

What I want us for whichever of BB and ETL is town to stop effectively making prod-dodges every day or two and tell us their hopes, fears, anxieties. I particularly want their reads on other people than me and their justifications for them.

[Quilford]

tell us their hopes, fears, anxieties.

Yeeees, it would be particularly nice for non-you or Mina players to talk about this, because then it won't be 'omg what if Quilford REALLY IS SCUM'

[BBmolla]

Molla have you read this page?

I haven't read shit

fingers crossed I do tonight

[BBmolla]

but i kind of need a nap