Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)

[Plotinus]

There aren't any masons or innocent children in this setup.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm pretty much confirmed town.

Like, it's obvious I'm town. So obvious that I might as well be confirmed town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it's blatantly obvious I'm town btw.

I agree.

Hi Rev.

[TheReverend]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Who here other than toffee has a list of "not lynching ever"?

Hi toff.

[Bellaphant]

Wow.

Wrong's analysis really didn't work for me and her lynch pool is worse.

UNVOTE: dave for now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, can I interest you in a Farside vote?

[FA_Q2]

Yeah, I don't know why you're pointing out what the potential claims could be so you should stop doing that now.

Are you playing dumb or actually dumb?

Do you really not see the logic behind my thinking? Half claims protect the tracker. We don't need to know wrong song is doc, PR was sufficient to stop the wagon.

Pushing for half claims is one thing but you REALLY did not need to outline what the current claims tell scum. You realize that the scum might not be as well versed or thought about what the PR claims might mean?

They might have missed the extra information altogether. That is until you had to point it out with clarity...


Can we please stop feeding scum info and then explaining exactly why such is useful.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

FA, vote Farside?

[FA_Q2]

OK. This is getting fucking stupid.

We have 3 claimed PR's. I would bet at least one of them is lying, there is no way we have run up 3 PR's consecutively.

RMM, Wrong and Dave have all claimed a PR.

Time to lynch one of Farside/Senator.

VOTE: Farside

You are sure one is lying but want to lynch outside the lying group?


We have 3 claimed PR's.

There are 6VT and 5PR's out there.

As more than half of our PR's are claimed would it not simply be better to get the last 2 to claim and see if there is an actual liar in the group? Should we wait then the PR pool will shrink and a mass claim will become useless. When there was one claim then I can understand not mass claiming but as we have already claimed 3 we have essentially already done a mass claim. (soft claims as you have been talking about btw)


If 2pr's are nailed tonight then there will be 3 left and a mass claim will essentially mean the death of them. Pointless at any other time.

[FA_Q2]

FA, vote Farside?

I have to go back over farside for that. I really don't see the case on him. Care to expand?

[Bellaphant]

BBT, I'm not quite seeing it. I'm gonna iso her. Also, out of your list of 'RMM/Farside/Wrong/Dave' we've had three claimed PRs. I dunno what to make of that.

Also, FA, have a town-read.

What if a PR had a result?

[TheReverend]

They might have missed the extra information altogether. That is until you had to point it out with clarity...

Yeah well the point needed making seeing as people are claiming. Yes there's a down side to being explicit in that dumb scum get info they might not have thought about. But the flip side is dumb PRs think more about their claims. Pros and cons.

Protecting the tracker is, imo, more important than hoping the scum are dumb and not strategising effectively.

[TheReverend]

What if a PR had a result?

What result can we hope for? Tracker tagged someone to a kill? Could have been a doc. Tracker is better off holding back his info so he can catch a liar, imo. But it's down to the tracker to decide that for himself.

[FA_Q2]

BBT, I'm not quite seeing it. I'm gonna iso her. Also, out of your list of 'RMM/Farside/Wrong/Dave' we've had three claimed PRs. I dunno what to make of that.

Also, FA, have a town-read.

What if a PR had a result?

Come again? I do not understand the last two sentences at all.


Do I have a town read or are you reading me as town?

What do you mean what if a PR had a result?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You are sure one is lying but want to lynch outside the lying group?


We have 3 claimed PR's.

There are 6VT and 5PR's out there.

As more than half of our PR's are claimed would it not simply be better to get the last 2 to claim and see if there is an actual liar in the group? Should we wait then the PR pool will shrink and a mass claim will become useless. When there was one claim then I can understand not mass claiming but as we have already claimed 3 we have essentially already done a mass claim. (soft claims as you have been talking about btw)


If 2pr's are nailed tonight then there will be 3 left and a mass claim will essentially mean the death of them. Pointless at any other time.

I don't particularly want to lynch a possible PR. I wouldn't mind a mass-claim as I believe I know where one of the PR's lie and what it is. I don't want to say more unless we're gonna go ahead with the mass-claim.

If I'm proved correct, this should pretty much confirm me as town.

FA, vote Farside?

I have to go back over farside for that. I really don't see the case on him. Care to expand?

It should be in my ISO.

I'll see if I can dig it out.

[FA_Q2]

What if a PR had a result?

What result can we hope for? Tracker tagged someone to a kill? Could have been a doc. Tracker is better off holding back his info so he can catch a liar, imo. But it's down to the tracker to decide that for himself.

Another result of mass claim. If the tracked claims VT but tracker got a result - we have a scum/SK.

Other way around is useful to an extent as well but less so as the backup can be a PR without a result.

[TheReverend]

What do you mean what if a PR had a result?

I assume he's asking if the tracker should claim if he has some info that could be useful.

I don't think so, because it's only "useful" info, it won't be a confirmed guilty. If, however, the tracker has a result on someone who claimed vanilla... that's a guilty.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, he probably should wait. Just thinking about fa's post.

Oh, p-edit: sorry, FA: I am giving you a town read (reading you as town) and I assume TheRev's post has answered the second.

Eh, have you also got any strong town-reads?

p-edit again: wut, bbt??

Also, ppp-edit, I'm a girl Rev!

[TheReverend]

Sorry I just assume "he" until I either notice or get told.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My reasoning/discussion with Farside for why I think she is scum.

101 - Flubber is a scum read. No vote though, instead she focuses on Bella. Classic scum move, FOS buddy (Flubber) but vote !town! (Bella)

253 - Her read on Flubber is 'paranoid'. Not scummy though, just someone to be watched.

330 - Can you explain this comment, Farside. Why did you want me to be town?

877 - If you thought Flubber was scum and you were going to attack him, why do you need to reevaluate? You were right, so there should be no need for reevaluation. This makes no sense.

As well as this, besides her brief stint on the Papi wagon (which after she got off she made sure she avoided like the plague; switching between Con and RMM) all of her scum reads throughout the game seem to be on people who I feel good are town. She also fits the bill for scum pushing CW to Papi.

OK, but you showed very little suspicion towards Flubber throughout the Day.

The way Con went about his reads (or lack of them) was town, I explained this somewhere I think. It was weak reasoning to pursue him.

Also, if you ended D1 thinking RMM was scum, why did you not start D2 in the same manner?

And this one is in it's very own post because I think you have ignored this twice.

Can you explain your comment to me in 330?

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

I did vote ConMan, but it was on a perceived slip and at a time when I wasn't fully caught up (I had skimmed a fair few of the recent pages)
You come into D2 looking to attack Flubber. You ended D1 thinking RMM was scum. Why would you not continue attacking RMM? It has nothing to do with Wrong/RMM, and everything to do with the progression/change in your reads on Flubber/RMM.

Your '

I was scum reading Flubber and was going to attack him

' comment feels disingenuous.

Because of ongoing game reason.

I'm going to come back to this when I can. This is bullshit though.

VOTE: Farside

Why would Papi flipping scum point you to Flubber? Like, it seems counter-intuitive to start looking for scum on the wagon of someone who flipped scum.

I can't explain it because ongoing. When I can, I will.

It's a weird comment to make. I could understand it if we had played together before or something like that, but we hadn't.

PEdit - Can you explain why you're hard town reading Dave please?

I do. But again, it still seems counter-intuitive to search for scum on the wagon. Plus, you showed very little interest in Flubber throughout the Day, if you thought he switched to Con for BS reasons, why didn't you call him out on it? Why go for RMM instead? Why not Flubber?

I'm asking because it looks like you have just assumed Dave is town. I would like to know what he did that made you so sure he was town.

975 - Farside, I haven't been the only replacement. Reverend, Wrong, Wanderer, Dave and RMM have all replaced in. You never said anything to them about hoping they are town. It just strikes me as a really weird comment to make to somebody out of the blue.

You were hard town reading Dave (without openly stating it; that's the important part) and I couldn't see any reasons for you to be doing so. When you checked, you couldn't back up your read. I believe you were trying to gain Dave's vote on whoever it was you thought was scum at the time.

980 - FA, I think RMM has a good chance of being scum. I don't want to go into too much detail about what information his lynch would give us but he was a CW to Papi and should he flip town, that provides us with a lot of information. The voting at end of D1 will be very informative if we make the right choices.

982 - Looking forward to some content from you Dave. You're currently an OK lynch for me and I think Rev has a good point about you SK hunting.

[FA_Q2]

I think we should press with a mass claim here.

Everyone should either claim PR or VT - no more than that and everyone should claim so there are no lurkers left out. Does any one object to this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

p-edit again: wut, bbt??

I think I know where one of the PR's lie.

If we're massclaiming, I would like to propose who I think it is and why. If I'm right, I'm confirmed town because that's obviously where I would have killed if I were scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm for a mass claim at this point.

[Bellaphant]

? Is this where we do the pop-corn thing?

[FA_Q2]

Yeah, he probably should wait. Just thinking about fa's post.

Oh, p-edit: sorry, FA: I am giving you a town read (reading you as town) and I assume TheRev's post has answered the second.

Eh, have you also got any strong town-reads?

p-edit again: wut, bbt??

Also, ppp-edit, I'm a girl Rev!

I would say that BBT and Rev are both 'not scum.'

SK is another animal altogether that I am not ready to get into at this moment.