Micro 474: Over the Garden Wall Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Doduo]

i'm town therefore ms is town therefore VOTE: nacho later bye

[Doduo]

quack

[Doduo]

VOTE: MS NOPE NOPE NOPE

[Doduo]

no we're lynching ms
no you're not interesting

[Doduo]

metal always talks about how he wants to be scum with me again
but then i guess he could be scum if he was recruited
and i'm not about to let him get away with another game of this shit

[Doduo]

in team mafia he did the same whole "post a lot in sequence bc hahaha this spam and trolling is typical ms and i dont want to lose this game by mislynching him bc thats way too easy to do" (it's no)

[Doduo]

he's trying to be "what a dumb spammer metal sonic is, posting so much and not knowing anything"
and ms is not dumb

[Doduo]

what did you think was safe about it?

I thought it was safe because I figured me, you, Sonic were going to be on most people's recruit shortlists, and I assumed his reasoning would be something along the lines of play ability, but I'm now informed that assumption wasn't correct.

MS?

really?

[Doduo]

gaiden *could* be scum.
i doubt that he is.

hi mastin

[Doduo]

Checking in

What's this recruitment thing

ew

[Doduo]

Ms feels townie to me but idk how strong that feeling is.

Also lets not flavor claim ever if that wasn't already clear.

Pie is pinging me and idunno why so talk about ur vote if you may for me please.

why is ms townie to you

if I post a bunch of random shit can I be townie too

[Doduo]

squawk

[Doduo]

CAN YOU DROP THE ACT ALREADY IT'S ACTUALLY RLY ANNOYING NOW

[Doduo]

pls murder this now

[Doduo]

i literally have access to your scum pt

[Doduo]

[ do not engage.
repeat do not engage ]

[Doduo]

Doduo's thought process isn't inconsistent; given I don't really intend to read people based on recruiting-related things, I think it makes sense for someone to assume at first you weren't the recruiter and then push you anyway based on play.

doduo is posting garbage lol

and this is coming from me

I smell butthurt

[Doduo]

heads

will roll

[Doduo]

in team mafia he did the same whole "post a lot in sequence bc hahaha this spam and trolling is typical ms and i dont want to lose this game by mislynching him bc thats way too easy to do" (it's no)

he's trying to be "what a dumb spammer metal sonic is, posting so much and not knowing anything"
and ms is not dumb

what did you think was safe about it?

I thought it was safe because I figured me, you, Sonic were going to be on most people's recruit shortlists, and I assumed his reasoning would be something along the lines of play ability, but I'm now informed that assumption wasn't correct.

MS?

really?

You saw him in Team Mafia go pretty damn far in a Nightless game as scum. Why are you surprised by Nacho saying people would recruit Sonic?

notty underestimates ms

i don't

[Doduo]

i don't like this marquis

i wish i could respond with "i don't like u" but it's more like just "i'm scared of you and my total inability to recognize when my read on you is right"

like i'm pretty sure you would still make that flavor claim as scum because you have the balls to do so. and i'd imagine in this scum mechanic it'd be a great way to fly in the face of the obvious suspicion if you were scum

but alas! i am going to sit over here and on ms because i actually have a good chance of being accurate there (also easier but plus points anyway)

[Doduo]

notty underestimates ms

i don't

not really

I just know that ms-scum will always just go for "oh there goes that ms again, posting random shit again. isn't he so silly and town!" and it's a dreadful bore and I don't really see that as something anyone would want when they get to pick a partner. The nacho and the pie things make sense.

[Doduo]

And if by towntell you mean "who in their right minds would pick me as their scum partner" then I don't really see why you've given it the leeway you have.

There's nothing non-fakeable in his iso.

Hell, I called out MS's early post because it sounded like trying to fake a towntell.

So.

[Doduo]

dum dum dum
casual townposting here too i guess

[Doduo]

bite me

[Doduo]

pleas spell otu the towntell then

Becuase there is like

5 posts in that iso

1 talks about the show
1 calls himself conftown
1 is this comment about being scared of pie

and then 4+5 are after the towntell

so do tell

what is so town about this

where is the towntell

[Doduo]

i know ms scumslipped on purpose but can we all just pretend it was accidental so this goes down easier

[Doduo]

The one I commented on

and the one I said I disagreed with

and was met with a no?

Okay.

[Doduo]

VOTE: cheney

[Doduo]

VOTE: Doduo

Funtime over. No more silly votes

[Doduo]

VOTE: ms : [

[Doduo]

i honestly thought it could be an actual mechanic tho

just silliness.

[Doduo]

that is a really big time gap for a pedit

[Doduo]

Paranoia because you potentially find it scummy

...

[Doduo]

@pie

my reads on ms are like my reads on pv

i dont really know how to read him but i never have qualms in lynching him

[Doduo]

I think its funny that the two people who seemed kinda adamant on gaiden's post being a townslip are the two who are voting us though!

[Doduo]

You know, the kardashians are still as famous as ever

lets continue this discussion about things that have no relevance to this game and I dont even give a shit about outside of this game

VOTE: metal sonic

[Doduo]

i admire kim in the way i admire notty

[Doduo]

don't know why i said it like that because i actually admire both of them

will read this super duper long and boring game later

[Doduo]

kagami, please confirm the most recent votecount was an error and not an actual thing again

fixT

[Doduo]

kill

[Doduo]

Let's lynch Metal Sonic then association lynch not-me.

[Doduo]

voting scum is an option too

[Doduo]

i am pretty sure that becomes negative utility when it is used on scum

[Doduo]

actually i'm pretty sure it's negative utility if used on ms period

[Doduo]

oh i missed "town"

[Doduo]

nacho i'm probably the person least likely to actually believe that trust me

[Doduo]

i thought if he hammered scum they'd become a tree too

which is infinitely more negative than positive utility for obvious reasons

[Doduo]

Have we lynched MS yet

[Doduo]

Projection at it's finest

[Doduo]

Hello pot this is kettle i'm black

[Doduo]

You are however projecting your feelings about yourself on to us

[Doduo]

i wonder why kagami didnt just wait for the new page

[Doduo]

you are however throwing in everything and the kitchen sink because you're mad scum-you got caught day one

[Doduo]

First time fo everything, then

It could explain why you've been so butthurt, throwing shit at us to see what sticks

:>

[Doduo]

I'll be here tomorrow, if MS isn't hammered by then I'll be looking off the wagon for his scumbud tomorrow.

[Doduo]

Please, do share with the class what you find townie about MS's latest posts.

[Doduo]

Because I thought that he was lying. I was duly corrected when I figured out which game he was referring to, and even though town-marquis has every right to fear my scumgame, I don't see them approaching from a town mindset. They aren't trying to get a read on me or interact with me, instead they are trolling on a level even greater than I am (I'm not even trolling, or at least I don't consider myself to be doing so at this stage). If you do a quick ISO on them, you can't see any of their attempt to figure out the game, no townreads, only 1 scumread "MS is scum" -- why? Not explained.

Ha ha ha

We will be here tonight

[Doduo]

I logged in an hour ago to post a short blurb about having work tomorrow through deadline just lynching the scum already but I got distracted by making crepes

and now there are all these posts talking about me <3

anyway yeah

just lynch the scum already

also I would probably plan to say that and actually say that as scum too especially after what Alch thinks my scumplay is like (close but no cigar) so I realize it's not really doing anything to address all these ~concerns~ but w/e idk

[Doduo]

i mean i guess i could
post a readslist

or something

but that would involve reading the thread in full again (assuming you want something taking recent stuff into account which is prob a given)

[Doduo]

also we usually don't sign

like 10% of the time i remember to quack but that leaves like 99% when i don't

[Doduo]

math

[Doduo]

alchy can be town
i guess
idk

[Doduo]

believe it or not i am trying here

i think i'm just having a problem getting footholds with how many accounts i've overcommitted myself to have to log into on a regular basis and this one is probably last on my list tbh

[Doduo]

That's you. I don't think doduo is a good enough actor for that.

Scrap this, Marquis is fully capable as scum. Don't think the hydra itself (troll style) can do it though, plus notty.

ok yeah this is still scum ms
gonna log out happy now bye!~

[Doduo]

only browsing and back because of imminent deadline

pedit how are you even real
like
how are you


even real

[Doduo]

The most recent posts are... AtE.

impressive
now stop trying to sell it as a scumthing

[Doduo]

Specifically, 196 and 197

this response is interesting.

Spoiler:

I did that. I didn't glean a lot from it, because it's pretty obviously one of the first games he played here. It's pretty jam-packed with newbie questions or questions intended to look newbie, which I agree is not the same situation as in this game.

Soren claims he has over 40 games completed. I don't think that's what he was going for there; I think he was just asking as much stuff as he could to look busy and not realizing nothing he was asking had any town motivation.

@Endless Possibilities: Do you think that Soren is typically pretty wishy-washy on his own opinions or generally easily led? Do you have experience of him as town in a completed game? I read this:

Mini 1650: Greatest Idea Mafia

and Soren seemed a lot more forceful in that as town. His questions were much more pointed toward alignment and less busy-seeming. I don't see much other meta, but if you have it, I'll read it.

mm, I looked through this and the first thing I noticed is that in that game, he wasn't following closely at the start of the game (he says this in 268). it's usually easier to step back and take a fully objective view of the game when you already have a body of work of content to go off of, as opposed to seeing everything unfold firsthand.

also in that game, his opening (and his play in general) hardly consisted of any questions, as opposed to him primarily commenting on stuff. it's possible he just took a different approach here, or is having an off game

there's also some other things that I think might be different but haven't looked into it yet: for example, it's possible a lot of people were acting obviously scummy/town in that game, compared to this game which is rather slow (with at least 3 people having practically no content at all). I suppose what I'm saying here is that I don't find a lack of strong scum reads scummy, given my 2nd strongest scum read is fucking Anti just for not doing anything at all besides one somewhat-off-looking push.

besides that, I don't have any experience with town Soren, but I think the differences from his ISO here to the ISO in his scum game are a lot greater than the differences from his ISOs here/this game. I usually don't agree with calling someone scum because of minor differences to their town game, in no small part because I used to (and still am, to some extent) be known for being extremely obvious town as town and I would have that pushed on me a lot whenever I did so much as one thing that was different from any of my town games. this is moreso my method of reading people so make of it what you will.

I didn't like this because Antihero hasn't actually posted much in this game. No one has explained their vote on him very well. His vote is on LucianRoy, whom Soren was voting earlier for "meta" reasons that apparently both of them now agree were not very strong. LucianRoy is clearly not immune to OMGUS since he is scumreading two people currently on his wagon and one who was; it seems a little out of place for him to resolutely resist the same OMGUS urge where Soren is concerned.

I'm still not particularly seeing why this is scummy, explicitly because Anti hasn't posted much. it makes sense to poke at a lurker in order to get them to do shit. there were better questions he could have asked, but I could easily enough see it coming from town.

LR had also declared a town read on me after I started pushing on him (although I never voted him) so I'm not sure what to make of the second point. either way, I don't really think it makes sense as a scum strategy to OMGUS every town player who pressures you, so I don't think it makes sense him not OMGUS'ing Soren would be indicative of Soren scum, either.

This was interesting because I was voting LucianRoy at the time. It's like Soren is only interested in asking questions among the people who were voting LucianRoy. Soren also says he just wanted to see what I would say -- again, not owning the suspicion that is pretty clear in the question imo.

It's not just the questions for me, though I watch for that more since Farside pointed out it is one of her scumhunting tools. (Yes, I shamelessly borrow from other players.) Soren hasn't had any strong views -- in fact, he sheeped me onto LucianRoy and then immediately backed off his own vote without unvoting.

IMO a lack of strong stances isn't particularly scummy. it's either indicative of scum who don't want to fake reads, or town who legitimately don't have any reads and don't see it fit to pretend like they have reads that they really don't. what I find scummy is when people act like they have strong stances, but then don't actually do anything to follow through with them (ex. Aris WK'ing a lot of people who are under pressure but not doing anything to explain why).

in Soren's case, I think it's plausible enough he just doesn't have any strong reads yet. he's either scum who made a push and then didn't feel like continuing with it, or he's town telling the truth about not having a strong read on you and backed off for exactly the reason he said - that he asked the question to see what you would say as opposed to feeling strongly you were scum. either way, I don't think it's inconsistent.

one thing that I noticed when I played with him as scum was that there were basically no stances *at all*, which is kind of similar. I suppose it's not too unreasonable he's stepped up his game as scum to some extent and is more capable of taking stances but is not yet comfortable faking the strong pushes he made in his town game. however, I still think there's more stuff that points to him being town.

^ this was a post FROM MY LATEST TOWN GAME WITH MS. he was in THIS HYDRA with me for this game.

his angle here is that he's paranoid of me bc I'm supposedly making long/effortful posts early in the game. this is blatantly disingenuous. while long posts are not a tell either way for me, he has directly seen that it's something I do as town and that I'm more than capable of walling early game if I want to elaborate on or deconstruct posts in depth.

so him thinking I might be scum for it doesn't make any sense. I think he's going for a fake paranoia angle here, as in he pretends to be paranoid of someone bc ppl will hopefully see it and think something along the lines of "look at that paranoia, so town".

I'm aware this is supposedly just paranoia, but regardless, it doesn't make sense from a town POV. he knows it's not a scum tell yet supposedly is pushing it as one anyway.

If there's any indication he's scum from the way he's reacting to pie's posts, it's that it's easy to call Town Town and he knows this, and he's being pretty liberal with handing out the confTown statuses.

except this isn't what he's doing. what he's doing is calling me town, but then going back and saying he's paranoid of me for supposedly making long posts. that isn't committing to a town read on me.

rather than an actual town reaction - such as deconstructing my posts and trying to show me why he's not scum (which in this case is something I think he should be particularly likely to do here bc we have a pretty long history with each other), or committing to a firm read on me either way - we're seeing him do the "fake paranoia and start second guessing myself" routine.

pie is town.

also a good salesman because i now have restored faith in ms!scum

[Doduo]

I have some markers for what I look for in Marquis' scum game and I haven't been seeing them here,

oooh

what markers didn't you see

[Doduo]

I don't know what to defend myself against because pretty much everything against me is pretty baseless

I have answered all your questions though pie <3

now ms is doubleselling me on ms scum

[Doduo]

oh i did actually read some of this earlier

going through it now i

[Doduo]

i actually don't really want to say it but

i want a lia lynch significantly more than a ms lynch right now
and that's like
a lot

[Doduo]

Official Vote Count

Metal Sonic

(3): ActionDan, pieguyn, Doduo

Doduo

(2): Metal Sonic, Lia

Lia

(1): Honey bee

Alchemist21

(1): Nachomamma8

Nachomamma8

(1): Alchemist21

Not Voting

(1):

SXTLHGaiden

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-05-19 07:01:02)

VOTE: lia
...
VOTE: ms

[Doduo]

i'm reminding myself of awkward 2012 marquis and i'm really not liking it

but anyway if a bunch of people vote lia in the next few hours i will... probably not vote lia because i am only going to wake up like an hour before work

[Doduo]

fuck

i think ms is scum but even more that lia is scum over ms

like she's trying to agree with ms and agree with minor points against me for placement and to try and go against the grain

her hydrapost obfuscation tinfoil agreement right now just reeks of scum. like all the ping, everywhere

[Doduo]

ms vote lia

[Doduo]

i really really don't want to risk being lynched while we're out

i mean it's obvious but like much more so than usual with these double strong scumreads

but i'm confident enough in lia scum that i'm willing to try even with ms there

[Doduo]

VOTE: lia

[Doduo]

every time i start to like you

you say somethingl ike that

WHY.

[Doduo]

i think ms is scum but even more that lia is scum over ms

[Doduo]

like

i think if lia is scum which is by far my most confident read as of right now

she's piggybacking off of ms-against-doduo things (especially the hydra thing which i think is too naive a thread for her specifically to follow genuinely) in light of what looks like a guaranteed ms lynch - and i don't think she'd do that if ms were to flip scum

[Doduo]

VOTE: Nacho

i still have no idea where this comes from

his claim is confirmable and forced to be put to town's benefit and should be enough to put him to the side for now

[Doduo]

I was just about to use the word blatant myself but differently.

I remember we had some sort of argument earlier about what MS would do as town/scum and this is null for him.

But Lia is scum so my desire not to go back again and sort that thing compounds with this vote.

[Doduo]

I said agreement.

Not argument.

If this is a misunderstanding on your part, it's major.

[Doduo]

oh i've kind of been ignoring how it was ms making that original argument huh

i mean i knew it was him, just didn't really try to analyze it bc mostly ignore-except-for-instant-scum-ms-indicators

...meh meh meh

[Doduo]

this seemed to imply you were open to the possibility of Gaiden being scum. I'm asking how this makes sense when you had just said he was "conftown" - it felt more like you were just agreeing for the sake of it as opposed to actually believing it

I don't think it implied that. It looked like he was agreeing with Alchemist that Gaiden was posting more but not that it meant he was scum.

marquis uses all lowercase (except for ALLCAPS)
there are some exceptions to this but you can usually tell based on the timestamps

Marquis was using some capitalization in the last game we were both in. But I think I've worked it out now.

Is this a fact? Because I disagree, I've seen him use uppercase more often, and when he goes supreme modding mode, his grammar is perfect. I have the belief that notty is the one using nocaps. They'd normally sign with squawk and quack, but I don't know why they aren't doing that here.

Tinfoil theory says that they are trying to obfuscate their posts from whichever heads.

This is the impression I was getting too.

MS is looking more town from 348. I'm still not sure about Pie. No read on Gaiden or AD and my other reads haven't changed.

this is just
so fucking scum though

like






really

[Doduo]

I really want to vote Nacho right now.

I don't even know if it's out of spite or if what I'm seeing is actually something real.

[Doduo]

marquis lets vote metal sonic again

I didn't notice she agreed with the tinfoil theory which is horrible

But I'm not switching wagons because she agreed with a terrible argument ms made

my gunshot thought here was that nacho's scum relying on nachoclout to push something through and half-tripping over himself in the process of trying to look natural about this whole thing

i also feel like he should be able to see how tense i'm feeling about these dual scumreads right now and coming into it the way he did felt like totally handwaving away my current thought process as it started to even slightly shift away from ms, and also manipulative as fuck at that

[Doduo]

wait why is gaiden italicized in the recent vcs

mine

[Doduo]

i could see lia/nacho

and really

see

it

[Doduo]

VOTE: nacho

yeah only seeing the same thing in nacho's other recents, and in case i suddenly jumped off the wall completely this is the best option anyway if nacho is telling the truth. plus alch is my strongest townread too so there's that

and i think i'm def parking there for the night, bye

[Doduo]

VOTE: ms

fuck the police

[Doduo]

Marquis isn't here at the moment, care to leave a message?

[Doduo]

VOTE: gaiden mep

[Doduo]

why ?

[Doduo]

VOTE: Lia

Refuck the police

[Doduo]

I forgot this account existed

just hammer already

[Doduo]

also I'm going to bed because busy tomorrow

but I wasn't planning on compromising this time anyway

so if we could just get this scumlynch (read: not me) over with that would be great

[Doduo]

VOTE: Lia

Refuck the police

why u switch marquis's vote

bc confscum

notty is gone it's all me babe

[Doduo]

seriously don't lynch me instead while i'm asleep tho because that would really fucking suck

[Doduo]

also ~reasons~

[Doduo]

Will be here in full later tonight.

[Doduo]

notty's been v/la and same for me somewhat

skimming, saw something about massclaim approval - 2 scum would mean mylo so massclaim and no lynch is the best way to go through this

i really want to lynch lia but the nacho townflip gives me pause
even though i know it shouldn't
it shouldn't

[Doduo]

but I wasn't planning on compromising this time anyway

so the switch was intentional yesterday? okay.

I don't know who's here or not that I can trust so I'm just pointing this out after I'm nked. I'll check back in a bit.

also re: this

my instinctive answer is lol

but this kind of jumping to multiple conclusions all over the place feels like town running forward and def not scum

sooo

answer: no-tty <3 yw

[Doduo]

re: choosing phase chapter, this is porbably going to sound like a stretch but not-so-tinfoil theory is that it's actually a scum factional ability. like in a role madness pre-alignment game that's the perfect way to just balance things easily to account for the pr tilt - this is what ceph and i did with pokemon gen ii upick to hand scum a premade inventor fakeclaim off of their hidden factional. plus only one player having that decision is weird af, it's more of a shared/mechanic thing so i'm reeeeeally sketched by that claim

lia/gaiden maybe??

[Doduo]

legit forgot again
tonight when back from work

[Doduo]

so we're some sort of gravedigger like role that gets to see what role someone was
which is pretty useless considering if there was a janitor kill scum would have used it already
dont remember targets off the top of my head but last night was another one of those times when we completely forgot this existed again just to say the least
also one of them was the motivator which let us double target but then the next day it was a no lynch iirc

[Doduo]

oh but we dug dan up i think
dont remember anything about him tho

[Doduo]

hi so uh

I havent read in forever

but I am here now

[Doduo]

fery who is scum

[Doduo]

I'm leaning Lia and Alchemist, but I kinda like the way Alchemist reacted to my questions.,\

Talk to me about your night results. What did you learn about Action Dan? And what else did you do?

So we're clear, our role is like a rolecop for the people who have already died, like we got their role pm if we checked them.

AD's role was like a clairvoyant thing? So like he gives them tea then after each day he gets to see if they were player/flavor targetted

I think that's the only one we got due to general inactivity from both of us forgetting this game was actually a hting

but uh

yeah

[Doduo]

seeing as I would rather finally lynch scum than no lynch

VOTE: Lia

[Doduo]

oh that's L-1 and stuff

idk if alch or beery yet but prime nk target wheeeeeeeeee