Mini 1670 - WTF MAFIA

[Wanderer-nl]

VOTE: shos
What's 'shos'?

[Wanderer-nl]

Looks like I have to do some studying on non-normal roles.

McMenno's claim: well I went wtf, and since this game is called wtf and we're all supposed to get wtf-roles, I'm inclined to believe it.
I'm actually also curious to know what happens if, let say, a SK killed you.

[Wanderer-nl]

I've slept on mcmenno's role and I don't think it's possible. We know there are at least 2 scum factions, and the way mcmenno explained it is that if one faction hammers, he will be against the other. As a 3rd party, he is already against every other faction, but he gets more against the faction that hammers/kills him? I found the restless spirit in the mafiawiki too last nigt, and that's why I needed more time to think, because finding that role there meant for me that it was less likely a lie. Even if he gets to vote, he shouldn't be able to keep posting so he can't influence the game much anyway. If there's people with 4-part roles (like Bins claimed) then I think town still has a good shot at finding scum.
Also, Derangment; your lylo/mylo theory feels off to me because we know there is a scumfaction, we know there is town, we know there is 3rd party scum, apparently mcmenno is another 3rd party, with all theses parties I think lylo/mylo might not be as soon as you fear.

VOTE: mcmenno

@Bins: I'm sorry you claimed, I'm afraid you will have to be a PL before lylo if you're town because we can't have hated town around for lylo. Scum will need one vote less on you, and as such have already won then. But the fact that you claimed a 4-part-role might get you killed before lylo.
To everyone else thinking about claiming: please read up on your role first on the wiki. Just about every role contains tips on how to play the role/against the role.

[Wanderer-nl]

I think we're too negative on ourselves. We can win this easily right? All those combined roles in the game, townies able to come back, stuff like that. Why keep a hazard like mcmenno in the game when we should be optimistic to win this before lylo? I know I am, but maybe I'm just being naive.
Also, mcmenno isn't allowed to discuss and hopefully he doesn't even get to vote in this thread so he won't be able to discuss anything at all and has to go on what he's reading, so even if his claim is true (which I'm still not convinced of) he still has no info in the afterlife and can't be that much of a threat. Or are we afraid scum may have more lynch-changing abilities? We can also agree that L-2 is the new L-1 after mcmenno dies, in case he has his vote on the bw as well. I'm just afraid mcmenno is really the 3rd party scum but changed it to survivor to be able to live this game out..
Anyway, let me dive into iso's to see what jumps out for me in case we do decide to lynch someone else.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Ric: He is right now already actively out to kill town. He has to survive, remember? If a third party kills mcmenno, and then that 3rd party gets lynched or killed later, mcmenno will have won the game.
I don't want to have mcmenno against us during lylo, but I really think we can win this before we actually hit lylo so why worry about that? Before that, he won't be a problem. We can now all agree L-2 will equal L-1 in case mcmenno is on the bw and that's another problem out of the way. We just need 2 hammerers instead of 1 to make sure the lynch is going through. Wouldn't that make scumhunting through vca even easier?

[Wanderer-nl]

A PL on town is always dumb.

Can we stop distracting this game?

A PL on hated isn't dumb, but it is horrible to have to PL. It's rather silly you would tell us you're not hated during lylo. It would have been a lot better to find that out during lylo when scum think they win when they vote you. Hated are usually town, but since here the roles and allignments are randomized, you might as well be scum trying to get yourself towncred by claiming hated.

[Wanderer-nl]

Bella: Can't really make my mind up on her, comes accross as uncertain or insecure. I liked 174 and 222, but there's a lot of mcmenno stuff that is currently not allignent indicative for me. Pedit: 251 is causing me to doubt my own read on Derangement, but I'm not going to change anything right now because I really need a break. Also, with 251 Bella put herself a little more on the townside of null for me.

Bins: Claimed hated in her first post, ok I can get that, then some discussion/questions about that start to come and then Bins lets us all know she's not hated in lylo, instead of waiting to tell us that when it's lylo and scum have already jumped on her to have her gone, she tells us now and we no longer need to PL. Bins saying she doesn't want to deal with mcmenno yet because it distracts from scumhunting is a good thing to say, and looks like Bins is trying to question other people, though it's not much. 181 bothered me a little bit. We already know there is a scumteam of 3 players. I assumed it was mafia already, but I realize now that we could have also been playing against werewolves or I don't know what fantasy our mod has. Still, the post looks a little weird to me, redundant actually. I want to have a townfeel on Bins, but there are these little things I can't ignore so I'll put her down as a nullread for now.

BRantz: Not much to go on for BRantz. On first glance his posts look quite town to me, but now I'm thinking about it, I'm not so sure anymore. I'd like to give him townpoints for the quedtions he asked, but there is a lot more for BRantz (and others) to comment on, so I'm not completely sure here. Very slight townfeel though because I think content is better than quantity, but still in the dangerzone of being moved to null because the content is so meager.

Derangement: A LOT on mcmenno. First they want to have him lynched, but in 102 Derangement seems to have a change of heart and would rather wait, I don't see an unvote though. In 106 it becomes clear Derangement wants to wait to see if a 3rd party is willing to hammer mcmenno. In 115 they write they need to do more scumhunting, but their posts after that one are all back to mcmenno. After the mod explained the lylo/mylo-thing Derangement was focussed on a lot, their posts become a lot shorter and in 161 Derangement is back to wanting to get rid of mcmenno. Then 183 what they say about the vig looks good.
I don't see scum stepping in the spotlight like Derangement did, and I think they tried to put down their thoughts as transparent as possible so I'm carefully townreading Derangement for now.

Drixx: I think his changing his mind between 73 and 77 looks town. Scum would probably make up their mind and stick with it. I really liked Drixx' 93 and just for that I could townread him. In 246 Drixx makes a good point imo. Drixx does address a couple of players, but he's mostly posting about mcmenno. 93 is enough to put him as a townread right now though.

Elusive: Another short iso but this one is filled with non-game related fluff. 117 while I can follow the logic in this, she doesn't revisit when Bins claims she has a 4-part role that also contains pseudo-jester. Other than that, nothing really stands out. Slight scumread, very close to null.

Jeanne: Said hello and made an RVS-vote, then confused this game with another. Can this just get replaced please?

Mcmenno: His claim looks less and less truthful with every post he makes. We already know he is 3rd party and isn't playing to our wincon. I also don't really get why anyone would claim such a role if they are able to win after death anyway. To me it looks like a way to position oneself as unlynchable/unkillable while not having to do anything to stay alive. How is this going to help us in the long run?

Oddmusic: Oh, forgot he was in the game, sorry. He made 2 posts. And a complete 180 on Ric. After which Ric unvoted immediately. Curious, I wonder what Oddmusic thinks about Ric's quick unvote. 2 posts that aren't bad imo, but need more content from Oddmusic to make a decent read, so null for now.

Ricastle: 110 I didn't like his vote there but what he said was good. After that was the exchange with Flubber and that made Ric look more town after Flubber's flip for me. Then came the Bella-vote and unvote and after that returns to Derangement in 240. I can see his logic, but I don't really agree with it. 171 though, mcmenno claimed and there are only a couple of investigator roles that could confirm/counter his claim, so it really depends on what we have in the game if that is possible. I'm not against it, but I worry we might not get a solid result on him while we could have on someone who didn't claim at all yet. Slight townread, but careful.
(Ric, I'll reply to you in a separate post)

Shos: It took some time for him to get in, but in 205 he posted some thoughts and most felt like it came from town. I'm a little confused why Shos would think mcmenno has partners though. Shos seems to believe mcmenno's claim, so shouldn't he then also assume mcmenno doesn't have partners? 209

IF mcmenno's flip is anti-town

? It's going to be anti-town, he's 3rd party. I also don't get why he would suggest a 1v1 in 216, and then 238 I don't get either because if it's lylo, it's lylo? Nullread mostly because I don't really know what to think.

So a lot is about mcmenno, which isn't really weird with such a claim. I also don't think much of it is really allignment indicative because every faction (except maybe a 3rd party) will be afraid of killing mcmenno. So I can see both town- and scummotivation from wanting mcmenno gone day 1 and wanting to keep him around because of the downside during lylo. But eventually he has to die, and I think this will always be a topic during this thread as long as mcmenno lives. I'm still behind lynching him today, partly because reasons I already posted and partly because I just don't have a strong enough scumread on anyone else yet.

More Pedit: Need to look into Derangement again, will do that somewhere tomorrow because I have to go now.
@Ric, I hope I answered your questions enough for now. I still intend to respond to you in a separate post but this post took me longer to make then I thought and I have to go now.

[Wanderer-nl]

Wait, I'm your biggest townread but also a nullread? also, I don't think 181 was the post you're looking for. but someone had said there was only one scum left so

Where are you my biggest townread again?

@shos: From your 205 you wrote

McMenno's role is probably the one third party whose alignment was NOT randomized. it fits perfectly. I believe that claim and I think it should not be touched; if false, we can just get

his partners

elsewhere. if True, damage to town is waaaaaay too big to consider lynching.
Also, if we keep him alive until the part where we all massclaim - then we can confirm that he is the sure-alignment role, and as such, probably not scum.

Here.
So this is lylo. Hated isn't hated in lylo. This is lylo. This is not lylo. Aaaarrgghhh I'm getting confused by this!!

@Bins 264: who even cares that much? I look at the pics when someone posts and most of the time I forget to look at gender and have to look it up when I address the person it concerns.

IRT 269: should we assume your scumread is a serious one? Since you seem to forget a number of players and well you know, maybe expand your view a little? I don't expect you to memorize genders, I do expect you to at some point know who you're playing with.

@Elusive: NOU? I agree with the middle part of her 270.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Bins: yeah you're right about Elusive mix-up, I guess I'm too drunk/stoned right now to make decent posts.

I also just realized from the quote I made of shos that I was looking at it incorrectly and now he is making sense more but yeah silly, I shouldn't do this when I smoked. But my lylo/not lylo confusement still stands!

[Wanderer-nl]

@elusive:
That just makes it all a misrep; I don't recall anyone askibg me why I scumread belle, lol.

@wanderer: are you kidding? It literally says right there that I think X, but if bot, THEN partners. Lrn2rd

Lol i jisy saw you were stoned so lolignore the above

If you wanted me to ignore what you wrote, then why wouldn't you just adjust what you wrote in the first place?

@Mcmenno: I'll post whenever I want to thank you very much.

[Wanderer-nl]

Hi guys, sorry for my absence over the weekend. I planned to do stuff here, but rl got in the way (well, mostly a hangover did really) so I ended on a lot of sleep.

I could go for either this or Derangement today. I've reread Derangement's iso and my opinions on it sort of remain the same, but the absence after the flubber-kill and really focussing on Mcmenno instead of scumhunting are things that are starting to stand out to me a lot more now. I'll get into that more when it's relevant again. Elusive is town as hell and I don't see how shos is missing that.
VOTE: shos

[Wanderer-nl]

First of all; why would anyone ever claim supersaint like that? If a supersaint is town-alligned, he should inform us and help us catch scum, not hope scum will hammer and certainly not believe scum would hammer after such a claim, especially after 1 scum has already died. If a supersaint is scum-alligned he shouldn't be claiming at all but just get a townie to place the hammer and leave us all confused/annoyed going into the night.
So I'm not sure if I believe shos' claim.

PEdit: I think I believe him even less now..

[Wanderer-nl]

Hi Bins, how nice of you to join us again. I think I agree actually on lynching mcmenno.

I'm inclined to not believe shos' claim for reasons I have already posted, but even if he's supersaint, town has ways to come back. Since mod also just confirmed there are no bastard-elements (though rez'ing could be debatable) , rez'ed town should come back same allignment. That's a conf-town right there. I don't want to speculate anymore about this because I don't want scum to get any clues whatsoever to rez'ing or who could do it. But that's where my thoughts are right now.

Mcmenno will have to die at some point. He's 3rd party no matter what his role, his wincon isn't town-alligned. Are we willing to leave him hanging and hope for scum to kill him? I agree with Ric here; Mcmenno stays 3rd party after dying, he just wins when the faction that hammered him loses. His allignment doesn't change, only his wincon does. I'm not really sure if that's also considered a bastard-element actually.. Mcmenno doesn't seem like much of a threat right now so we could just leave him for last. On the other hand, scum won't kill him either so there is a good chance of being stuck in lylo with him and mcmenno hasn't really shown signs of being much involved so that's going to be a problem.

We know mcmenno is not town-alligned, but he's barely a threat. I feel shos isn't trying to cooperate and mostly just causing confusement, those are scumtraits. I'd rather lynch shos today, but I could go back to mcmenno as well.

I like Bins' offer to hammer, as hated she'd deserve a PL anyway so that'd save us a day. But Bins claimed she isn't hated anymore in lylo, and I'm just too paranoid to believe that 100% right now. Since we get full role-flips, she might be a good one to rez and have confirmed. I have a reasonable townread on elusive and a slight one on Ric (mostly because his 1v1 with Flubber earlier) Bins' offer felt good, but she's still closest to null for me. And even if shos is lying, at least the hammerer was willing to hammer so there's that.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm getting apathetic here.

Mcmenno hammering shos sounds like a win/win for everyone. Mcmenno dies hammering scum and will vote for town in the afterlife. I'm fairly confident shos is scum, so I'm not worried if this happens.
But taking into account town being able to come back to the game, it may be better if town hammers so we can get conftown along the way?

The deadline is very near now and I really don't want to find out if jeanne's claim is true. I'd also hate if we had to decide on a new lynchtarget in just 2 days. Can we just get this done please?

I must say, I am a little worried that both Bins and Mcmenno have announced a V/LA right after posting they'll place the hammer, but then again, I get paranoid easily so may not mean anything. Mcmenno worries me more than Bins in this aspect..

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn :/

[Wanderer-nl]

Welcome Titus and A Royal Saint (will be saint from now on unless you'd rather have something else)

I don't know about Ric. I got some scumvibes from him lately but I just can't forget the 1v1 he had earlier with Flubber.. I'll dig into Ric's iso before sheeping this wagon, want to look back on that 1v1 and also what happened around that. I'll try to make it quick because we have little time left.

[Wanderer-nl]

I can't really concentrate right now because there's a party going on down the street with loud music and my earplugs are only helping so much..
I did read back on Ric's iso and also combined it with shos' and then mcmenno's as well. I don't agree Ric was really rolefishing, but he also didn't try to stop mcmenno. He was being critical of shos not answering mcmenno's question, which was actually rolefishing. It's a lot of postnumbers but mcmenno's q is in 335 so the rest is after that.
Also:

I would be more than willing to if my role was worse than it is and there weren't any better options.

What changed since 413 and 426?

[Wanderer-nl]

*Quicky*
Been reading while at work but so much was posted that I'll have to reread. I love how saint and titus have resparked the conversation and I'll post my thoughts shortly. Less than 2 days left and we need a new lync is all I can tell right now. Not sure about shos, got the idea he was getting a little more cooperative, but he did waste a lot of time on soft-claiming and I'm not sure what to believe right now.

@mod: can you please update post 0? At least the replacements (but deaths would be cool too)[/b[

Gonna reread now bbs.

[Wanderer-nl]

*Quicky*
Been reading while at work but so much was posted that I'll have to reread. I love how saint and titus have resparked the conversation and I'll post my thoughts shortly. Less than 2 days left and we need a new lync is all I can tell right now. Not sure about shos, got the idea he was getting a little more cooperative, but he did waste a lot of time on soft-claiming and I'm not sure what to believe right now.

@mod: can you please update post 0? At least the replacements (but deaths would be cool too)

Gonna reread now bbs.

ebwop; tags *sigh*

[Wanderer-nl]

I realized that hammering shos whilst assuming he was a vengeful-type role would be stupid and irresponsible in my position.

So how is that different from hammering a supersaint?

I realized that hammering shos whilst assuming he was a vengeful-type role would be stupid and irresponsible in my position.

But you have implied your role was not as important as everyone else... So why is hammering irresponsible.

Important and complicated aren't the same thing. Also feels a little like rolefishing. But I'm thinking less scummy of "rolefishing" in role madness games to be honest. I too would like to know what I'm dealing with, who I have with me and who against me..
(Yes this was already adressed, an asked&answered kind of thing so objection sustained, still wanted to get my thoughts out though, now that I'm comfortably sitting at my desk)
548 yeah that recent behaviour has put elusive closer to null for me. I also don't really like how she keeps being stuck in her scumread while it was mostly based on mcmenno-discussion and absence. And you're here now and not talking about mcmenno all the time. She should at least show willingness to reconsider now. It's actually pretty scummy come to think of it..

Spoiler: some relaxation

More wine ugh....Seriously...:/ Just bicker instead of cases :/ So disappointing to read.

I need beer. Beer is for cases and serious things.

I'm actually a wine-person. I try beer every now and then to check if my taste changed yet, but still nothing. I just don't like the taste.

@563 and 565 Bins and Bella: it's weekend. First of all, 1 weekend counts for 24 hours according to site rules. Second, it's weekend, people go out, do things, get drunk, some of us (them) have lives.

@Titus: Why are you contemplating mcmenno scum? He claimed 3rd party survivor in his first posts this game. Do you think that was a gambit?

I agree with what titus said in 577 though.

578 elusive wrote she read oddmusic off of meta and scumread him but felt she could work better with saint, his replacement. She's also judging titus by meta but now she's crawling back from oddmusic(saint). That's contradictory for me.

@saint 581 alligned as in alligned with each other? There are 3rd parties (well, at least 1..) so neither has to be mafia to still be not alligned with each other. How do you feel about Ricastle? And Bins?

@Bella 583 I liked what you said about the bandwagons.
I see anyone voting for mcmenno as at least null since he just came right out to claim survivor/3rd party. He's a PL just by being survivor, I won't hold that against anyone.
shos wasn't making himself look too good either at first, with all the soft/vague claims about his role. I'd be a little more critical about votes here but still he was confusing us and that alone is worth at least pressure. More on shos later on.

589 yeah that's just weird.

Alright so first I'd like to clarify some things about my claim:

1. I am not a vengeful.
2. I am not lynchable.
3. I am not a supersaint, and in fact had to read in the wiki a couple of days ago what that was in order to understand what you guys were talking about.

The reason I want to be hammered is to

prove

that. Once that one is done, scum will probably want to kill me at night because they will never be able to lynch me; this protects other roles which are more important, and, well, I'm not revealing the entirity of my role so you'll all just have to trust me on this being to the benefit of town.

4. there is relevance to Bellephant and bellephant only (lolz) - he will 1v1 the person who hammers me. if I hammer myself, he will die.

if that 1v1 doesn't yield a lynch, the result is much, much worse to town

, unless I'm really good as a town player, which I'm probably not.

~~~
reading.

The bolded. Can you explain how that works with Jeanne's claimed power?

@shos 682 this rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not having a strong townread on Ric but this is just blatant misrep. You started softclaiming and Ric only gave a name to what you were telling us and wasn't even the one that brought up supersaint.

686 #2 ehh that was mcmenno? I also don't think it's acting against wincon if you really believe someone is scum. A lesser town role trading for scum, after another scum has already died, seems like a good enough deal for me on day 1. Especially when there are ways for town to come back.

Back at my post so PEdit..

@ 691 Titus: shos has made it pretty clear he wants to 1v1 Ric and Bella. Do you want mod-confirmation first?

So I promised more on shos: he seems to be a bit more cooperative right now but deadline is nearing so he has to do something, I guess. He has *claimed* a lot of things by now and also said he may not be truthful on everything. I don't trust it and I'm keeping my vote for now. I'll see if I can do better later.

PPedit: I don't follow. Shos has made it clear he'll have Bella be one of the 1v1 and the way I interpret it the person who hammers shos is the second. How much more information do you think we're going to get with the deadline being so close?

[Wanderer-nl]

I happened to be in the middle of a post while ika cut me off.

@ARS: you've completely misread my claim. I do not change alignments, wincons, or anything. but I literally need scum cooperation to gladiate scum, so I don't think that's the course we should take.

@wanderer- actually I have no idea how Jeanne's role works with this. and no, I will not elaborate. will only help scum.

It was rethorical actually, my question. What I meant was that some parts of your role clash with Jeanne's, so either one of you is lying or something really weird is going on.
This is what I just wrote.

I don't mind going 1v1, I don't want to trust Jeanne because of what I was writing. The fact that Jeanne didn't claim while being under pressure speaks for her though..
I really don't like shos didn't add Ric in the 1v1 as that was the intention for a very long time. He's now placing the responsibility with Jeanne to get scum lynched, instead of the entire town. Obviously I'm not going to vote for myself and I strongly urge others to not do that as well. I don't really want to lynch Bins, but we could get her to L-2 (which would be L-1 for her as hated) and then leave the hammer for Jeanne, then she can decide whether to redirect (if she can) or place hammer? Not too comfortable with this actually because of Jeanne's inactivity. I hope she's able to get in to atleast comment on what's happening now..

@Jeanne: how do you feel about shos' plan in 741?

[Wanderer-nl]

This is so fucking frustrating. With all the confusement around mcmenno's claim at the beginning shos decides to throw in some more confusement by making us think he's like a supersaint or something and this goes on and on to the point where we are now that we have a 1v1 on 2 people nobody was scumreading to begin with and we need to wait on the most inactive player alive to get scum lynched and how is that even helpful to town and even if Jeanne's claim is true where she can decide the days lynch if there is a no-lynch, shos claimed that something bad happens to town when there's a no-lynch and he also said that he wasn't truthful on everything he claimed so what if he actuallyonly said that part so we would all vote Ric but now that Ric isn;t an option anymore shos doesn;t mind to wait around for someone inactive. shos what do you want?
Yeah I'm terrible when I'm very confused. I'm also very annoyed because irl we got locked in because the gatekeeper forgot we were there so we had to wait half an hour before someone with a key showed up :/

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh this is just fucking fantastic(!)

PEdit: was about to claim but then Titus posted. Why is there a need for a mass-claim? This is WTF, a mass-claim won't tell us much?

PPedit: I do like the activity but makes it hard to post.

Ok I'll tell you guys this; I have a role that consists of multiple roles and one of them is investigative. The rest of my role doesn't influence my investigations.

[Wanderer-nl]

There's a shitload of new posts here and I've read everything but now I need time to process it.

About my role: there is part of it that will confirm me when I perform my investigative action. I'm willing to reveal more about my role if you all feel that is necessary, but I'd rather not.
I'm still kind of null on Bins, but that's mostly because she's been pushing for a lynch on me in our 1v1 so I might be biased. I don't know if it's my annoyance with shos or not, but I wouldn't mind Jeanne taking him out, but Ric is fine too. I don't like saint and titus arguing, will reread tomorrow and try to make something of it. Right now my thoughts are all over the place and I can't make anything more coherent than this. I really need sleep.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'll post my reads too but honestly there is just too much posts to go through so if saint could nuke like half the thread that would make things a lot asier for me (well that's ajoke, stop nuking useful info please)

shos has done just about everything he can to influence all lynch patterns since he started revealing things about his role. Anti-town and think for now I'd put him down as 3rd party, I don't think he's part of a scum-team.
Ricastle has mostly been defending himself. He goes back and forth between being useless to useful to being useless again, so ehh I don't know about that man. Didn't think he could be mafia because of the Flubber-thing way earlier, but that could have been a show I guess. So I'm thinking mafia or 3rd party.
Titus and saint, I can't make much sense of them. I always have issues when 2 players are very focussed on each other, I would point to another game but it's ongoing. I really don't like saint removing vc's on behalf of 'the thread' while 'the thread' at that point consisted of saint and Titus and a little elusive. It bothers me that saint came in with a claim of messing with titus and as it turns out she has exactly that role to be messing with titus. I'll have to read the entire discussion carefully to get proper reads. Will get to that later.
Mcmenno claimed 3rd party survivor in his first post and I don't think he's lying about 3rd party. He could be lying about the other things but the fact that he's 3rd party, and thus doesn't share our wincon, makes him a necessary lynch/kill nonetheless.
Jeanne looks pro-town to me because of her willingness to listen to other opinions. I actually started to think for a while she's aware of what is going on but just doesn't play with many words maybe? Careful townread.
Bins, I've recently discussed Bins, still pretty null.
elusive looked pretty town to me the first half of day 1 but lately she has been slipping from town more to null for me. Probably because she doesn't seem to be willing to adjust her read of the derangement-slot after it got replaced. I also felt she was sort of distancing from Ric but I might see more into it than there really is. That's mostly during the time we thought shos was supersaint. Right now I don't know how to categorize elusive, I'll put her as a solid null.
Bella feels like she's trying to figure out the game and I don't have a big impression of her to be honest. I have a gutfeeling she is town, she seems to be looking at everything with an open view which corresponds with her having a 'simple' role (she seems to not have an ability to do something at night to get info so she's doing it in-thread)
Drixx' posts seem thoughtful to me but I'm having a hard time reading him. My gut is telling me he's playing to his own agenda instead of a collective one. 3rd party maybe? I don't think Drixx is part of mafia.
BRantz doesn't have a lot of posts but what he posted is giving me a strong gut-feeling of town. His thoughts are to the point and mostly concerning what is actually relevant and I like that.

[Wanderer-nl]

Iirc that is the wagon where shos got hammered. Under normal circumstances I'd be all for that, but I think for now shos' bw won't be more than comparing-material. A lot of people are on there and the results Titus would get aren't going to tell us who they are so we're still speculating like we would do when we do a normal vca the next day, except this time we're sure about the numbers. A smaller bandwagon narrows down the options a lot, and if it contains of all town, that would give us a townbloc right there. Titus will just have to find the right bandwagon. I don't think she's lying about her role, her allignment is still a question to me though. Saving the reading for tonight on that though because the weather is nice so I'm going back to my garden now.

PEdit: it makes sense to me for this game specifically because ika is mod, and he holds ALL the info so the lie detector being named after him seems logical imo.

Btw, I didn't get a flavourname either, my name is just my combined roles I guess? And I'm not going to disclose that earlier than absolutely necessary.

[Wanderer-nl]

I am shocked Wanderer is hunting investigative since I am one too. I have been laying a guides to my crumbs in the future.

Wanderer you are at L minus 1. You are partially hinting at a CC of your biggest defender.

You may not like my approach but half-claim ain't going to cut it.

Almost forgot about this one. You don't think that in this game there would be more than 1 investigative role? Looking at the wiki, I probably should have used the word 'informative', check the list. There are all kinds of them and I still don't feel the need to make a full claim. All I'm willing to say (and have said is) that when I perform my action, this will be confirmed in some way.

I started reading Titus' and saint's combined iso's and about a third into it I gave up and skimmed the rest. What caught my eye mostly is how saint has been tunnelling Titus from when they got into this game, while saint has been sharing his thoughts on just about everybody here. Getting more of a town-feeling from Titus than from saint because of that. I also hate taking away vc's because voting is just about our biggest power, so again, can you stop?

And @elusive: ye I'm not going to give saint another vc to eliminate. I think we can see tomorrow from Titus' choice of vc and the results that go with it what her motivation is. If she's still alive that is..

@Bins: can you please stop promoting my lynch? A no-lynch from majority will end the day as well. I have to say, I too am just about ready to end this.

VOTE: No lynch

[Wanderer-nl]

If you hate my post so much then why don't you just nuke it? See if I care..

[Wanderer-nl]

I hate it because it doesn't make sense.

Hell scum read me incorrectly if you want but at least have fucking reasons that make intelligent grammatical sense.

Thirdly I can only nuke VCs.

Then let me break it down for you.
You know iso's right? Isolation of posts by a user?
Do you know you can combine them for multiple users?
I combined your iso with the iso of Titus.
When I was about a third of the length of the damned thing I gave up reading and skimmed the rest.
Is this better?
I thought the grammar was correct but what do I know, I'm just a simple Dutchie (is a nationality, not a roleclaim, btw)

I'm also not definitely scumreading you, but about every post of yours contains the name 'Titus' and I'm not as convinced as you are that she is scum so I hope you can understand MY viewpoint.
Deleting vc's is not pro-town.

@Bins: Maybe I missed it before but this is the first time I'm reading this. As far as I know shos said nothing in his role-pm states what happens in a no-lynch situation. If there is then he needs to tell us now or be lynched when he can. But I'm not going to die over a hated, you can dream on about that one.

@BRantz: unvote me. I have an investigative (informative) role. If you have a scumread on me, add it so I can defend, if not, then do no lynch.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm busy the rest of the day and early night so I'm not sure if I'll be able to get in before today's deadline. I hope I'm still alive going into the night so I can check another player. Yes, my role allows me to check players, it's a sort of basic investigative role and my target will receive a message when I visit, regardless of the result.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm not so sure of Ric and elusive being scum. I could see maybe 1 of them with Flubber, but both of them would be a huge gamble for scum to make and I'm not sure they would do that. Would they? I actually considered Ric 3rd party and maybe elusive too because I did get a townfeel with her at times. Ric looks genuinely frustrated to me so I still don't think there's mafia there, even though I can follow saint's thoughtprocess, but 3rd party is still a possibility.

I haven't gotten a conclusive result but what I got suggested innocent. I'll have to reveal my exact role if you want more information and I'd rather not do that on this result yet. I want to figure a couple of things out before I reveal more.

I don't have more to add right now, my head is spinning from tiredness. I also think the discussion on setup caused a lot of distraction and I hope I can contribute a little more tomorrow.

PEdit: I really need sleep but right now I still don't know what to think of saint. And I think Drixx made a good point about Ric, although what saint said could be true as well..

[Wanderer-nl]

@wanderer:
Elusive is probably town, I agree. Your argument that the frustration sorta makes Ric town is faulty though; frustration can come on both sides, and as scum, it's ESPECIALLY frustrating if someone throws a *true shit* argument against you to call you scum. scum caught for the wrong reason -> EXTREME FRUSTRATION.

since we do not know the nature of any third party scum we shouldn't be counting on that and assuming that.

innocent on who?

Ok I can get that about scum but so far I haven't really seen furstration come from scum. Who knows, maybe this is my first.
I'm assuming that because 3rd party

scum

it's a killing role. There are other 3rd parties (at least a survivor) so why explicitly call only one 3rd party scum?
I didn't get a definite innocent (read my post again) but I did like Drixx and went with someone I had a townread on and my result didn't point to a need of change in read so I don't feel the need to out my target just yet. We all saw what happened to Titus..

@Ric (and everyone else curious about my target) for you goes the same I just wrote to shos. (Can't you guys just realize I have a plan and don't want to spell it out before I have something more definite?)

@saint: the thing is, we actually don't know. And your gambit yesterday didn't help in making you look thrustworthy to me. Could you please not vote yourself? Is there anything else you saw from either Ric or elusive that points to them being scum, besides the Flubber-interaction?

I liked Drixx argument on Ric visiting him. But then I also liked shos' argument about the randomized roles/allignments. But as Drixx said; why would Ric confirm a visit if he is scum? But then again, why wouldn't he want the towncred? Right now I'm mostly thinking Ric maybe recruited Drixx and now they're trying to both get towncred? I'm afraid paranoia is hitting.. Would a cult be too bastard for a role-madness game?

[Wanderer-nl]

Wait aminute..
Drixx, you said you picked someone obvtown to target but that doesn't work with your shos-read in 1447 where you write:

I was scum reading you for a lot of yesterday's day phase. Your co-cooperativeness

today

has swung you considerably into the other column.

[Wanderer-nl]

@mod: could you please update post 0 with all the replacements? It's getting a little hard to remember who replaced whom.

[Wanderer-nl]

Well that claim opens up new possibilities...
If Drixx was protected by that vest the same night, it's possible that one scum-faction tried to NK Drixx. I remember Drixx' claim very well and I don't get why shos is having trouble remembering because Drixx was very open and clear about it.

The result on my target points to him or her being the dayshooter and I really don't want to reveal who it is in case all the scum have nightkills and the dayshooter is town. And Ric's claim makes that possible again.

[Wanderer-nl]

Just got thinking about that 3rd party scum. I think it makes a lot of sense that that's the one role whose allignment was already set. Assuming mafia has a factional kill aside from the roles they received, it would be very overpowering if roles like SK or vig ended up on mafia. Okay, saying that points to 3rd party scum being the dayshooter because if he isn't that, there is a town vig that could have anded up a scum vig.
About mafia not having a factional kill; that would screw them over if they don't land at least one killing role. So either the dayshooter is scum or there is one mafia-role that was already allignment-set. Getting anxious revealing my target, please discuss fast.

[Wanderer-nl]

shos, where do I say the dayshooter is team scum? When you say 'there's no reason to do so', do you mean me not revealing my target? And the claims are in the thread, why are you asking others to do your homework?

Drixx: It was at first, but then I had some doubt and to prevent that from shifting to paranoia I wanted to have it cleared up.
What do you think of what I could share about my nightresult so far?

[Wanderer-nl]

@Bella; In the post you quoted I already stated that my result didn't give me reason to change my read on my target though there is some information lacking for me to decide whether my result is a conclusive innocent or not. You're not the one that needs to 'get wiser' about my result, I am. I will share when I'm ready.
Then there's this:

there's nothing to stop him giving out a vest, using it to 'townfirm' himself in the recipients eyes and then get them lynched...

There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to begin explaining it. We're talking about a protective item, Ric knew he was going to be confirmed if he sent Drixx something because Drixx explained that yesterday with his claim, you don't give a protective item to a scumread so something has to drastically change for Ric to able to get the person lynched he gave a protective item to. The only other option would be that Ric and Drixx are scumbuddies and are 'townfirming' each other, but I'm not behind this theory because I'm townreading Drixx right now.

@Drixx: Yeah see that's what I thought. I was feeling a little rushed by shos, and to lesser extent, Ric.

@saint: Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and scumpainting Ric, you could try to respond to some other things in the thread like is the dayshooter 3rd party scum and is it possible that it's mcmenno, who claimed to be survivor and restless spirit? (I don't think so and with the clarification from the mod about the setup I'm thinking mcmenno is really survivor but I'm not so sure about the restless spirit although I could see it in this game, we will have to discuss this at some point because 3rd party still doesn't share our wincon. This was also to everybody.)

@shos: I don't much like the idea of having a list of all the claims in one post.
Stop telling us (me) that scum don't should each other. There is a 3-player mafia team (which is

2nd

party, town being first ofcourse) and a

scum 3rd party

who could be the dayshooter that shot

scum mafia

. I am actually agreeing with you that the signs point to the dayshooter is probably the 3rd party scum but I feel like you're missing that.

[Wanderer-nl]

Bella, I'm currently townreading Drixx and I just can't see a scenario where scum would just give a protective vest to someone. Now if Ric and Drixx were scumbuddies they could be trying to confirm each other this way but I don't believe that's the case. Do you?

I'm not a JOAT. I'm firstly an investigator, and the other parts are more like passive abilities or side-effects, but still roles. All roles so far seem to be unique and if anyone wants to claim some addition to their role, in the way I have for instance, it's harder to fake one because I know 4 that are probably nowhere else.

@shos: yes we get it already.

[Wanderer-nl]

A Royal Saint

: Post deleter who can get the alignment of a player who requests a deletion. The posts that can be deleted are only VCs by the mod at both day and night.

- Some of the deleting was confirmed

Ricastle

: Bulletproof Vest Giver -

confirmed by ?????????????

Drixx

: Anything Vendor -

confirmed by shos and ????

Bellaphant

: Dolphin -

confirmed by ?????

shos

: Lynchproof Gladiatorer -

confirmed D1

Jeanne11

: No-lynch Governor -

unconfirmed

Wanderer-nl

: ????

McMenno

: vote-only Restless Spirit Survivor whose wincon changes to having whoever killed/hammered them lose upon death -

unconfirmed

elusive/tere

: Chairman -

unconfirmed

What is chairman, again?
can anyone complete the questionmarks in this post

Did you even read this thread? Ric was confirmed by Drixx, Bella was mod-confirmed in the update, Drixx confirmed by Ric too since he had that fruit, I remember elusive claiming something where she puts someone in a room? If that's chairman, sure, I couldn't really find anything in roles and I must say that I've been too lazy (and busy) to check that list Titus I think it was made of all the games the roles were in before. You can put investigator after my name, that should be specific enough for now.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Tere: I don't really see town-motivation in trying to figure out your predecessor. While you wait on clarity about your role, could you start by telling us what you think about Saint, Ric, shos and Drixx?

[Wanderer-nl]

@Tere: the part where you said that yesterday too and so far it seems like all you did is look at elusive's iso. If that's a townslot then it doesn't matter what she said because you should assume it was all genuine and really only anti-town alligned players would need to see what their predecessor was playing at. I've only replaced into a game once on this site and that was a townslot, the first thing I did was skim the game, read the game, then read the iso of the lynched scum (good town that game) and last part was checking how my predecessor looked because that really wasn't relevant to me.

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh shoot, I messed up timetags. Thought over 24 hours had passed but I was wrong..
Ok so that doesn't apply anymore, but you still focused on your predecessor's iso before anything else. Sleep well, I'm looking forward to your reads.

[Wanderer-nl]

Saint, is it impossible for you to scumhunt without your power? Because imo you're really acting that way. I understand it sucks to get your power stripped while you had a plan to play it out, but that's no reason to just give up and get yourself lynched. What is that going to accomplish? Or is it in our best interest to lynch you?

[Wanderer-nl]

@Jeanne: I'm getting very impatient with you. Either play and post thoughts or get replaced. And it's also bullshit because you do fucking nothing in every single game I've been in with you.

[Wanderer-nl]

I like Tere's last post, it looks well thought without it containing filler or other stuff to make it look like there's more than there really is.
I'm not ready to vote yet. Saint does look like a good candidate but I'm not sure yet. And then there's also the matter of the missing pieces in my result. I have good faith that I will have something to add soon.

I was starting to think maybe Jeanne is lyncher and nees to get a certain player lynched to win. But then if she's really judge as she claims, she'll win when we no-lynch because she gets to pick who is lynched. I guess in this particular game it's possible for both those roles to end up on 1 player, and no-lynch isn't something that happens a lot so there might be something to it?

I like the idea of Tere neighbourizing Bella, it's actually really sweet. elusive made it seem more complicated, but neighbourizer makes a lot of sense with putting people in a room.

Really curious about what you have to say about mcmenno, when the time comes.

I love grouphugs! *jumps in*

Hope you had a good time in London. I always love it there.

[Wanderer-nl]

shos, the post Tere means I can vaguely remember seeing somewhere in one of the queues, but it's a different one from the one you mean. Jeanne is kinda notorious for this I guess.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm really liking Tere.
Saint how do you feel about her now? Still scumreading the slot?

shos: do you think mcmenno is a survivor restless spirit with a dayvig-shot? I find this hard to believe in combination with his early claim. It also doesn't fit. I should first mention that 'scum' to me is an anti-town role with killig ability. So a 3rd party dayvig or a SK, or whatever else ika can come up with, or ofcourse the mafia team. Not a survivor, who just has to stay alive until the end of the game to win. Now it could be that mcmenno claimed survivor because of the expected 3rd parties, but as a dayvig he could have gotten towncred, and if he does have restless spirit as the dayvig instead of being survivor, being killed by mafia shouldn't matter to him because then he can get them to lose in the afterlife and then still win himself. And mcmenno said he wanted to do that, although I'll have to see that first before I believe it. There's a really small possibility of mcmenno being mafia but I don't really see them claiming a role where they put themselves in a position to be a policy lynch at some point, even with the restless spirit role.

@Ric: I would like a dayvig shot myself, but I don't want the waiting for it to stagnate the discussion.

I have a few little things to sort out and I'm giving it a couple more hours. I don't like there isn't a counter-wagon going on. Either the scum are too scared to do anything about it, or too inactive, or Saint isn't mafia.

[Wanderer-nl]

First of all: thanks for calling my thoughts on the dayvig insane. I would have liked a little less ridicule my way, but oh well. That's what I get for being paranoid I guess.
Now, Saint is voting for themselves. That's against the rules just as much as it is for Jeanne to build a meta where she only plays as scum. That's really the only thing that's bothering me about this whole wagon.. If either Jeanne or Brantz is the last scumbuddy, I agree it makes sense there isn't a counterwagon going on.

I've been thinking if I should make a full claim and reveal my target and exact result. I've decided not to. Earlier I said the result points to likely innocent or maybe dayvig, and I still stand by that. We're not looking for the dayvig yet and I also don't feel it's necessary to let scum know what kind of investigator I am before I have an actual guilty.

[Wanderer-nl]

I normally don't support quicklynches but in this case I don't really feel like waiting around for Jeanne to show up eventually and just say 'My role pm say I'm town, try to prove otherwise' But I think we can give it at least a day to let everyone have a chance to share information that needs to be shared.
I don't have anything to share right now. That doesn't mean I don't have a result, I got a good one that just doesn't need sharing right now.

[Wanderer-nl]

What's with all the silence all of a sudden? This is no time to go do nothing, we should be talking.
Drixx, can you comment on a Jeanne-lynch? And while you're at it, besides shos, who are you townreading and also who are your other scumreads? I went through your iso and there aren't many reads so not sure where you stand right now. I'm mostly interested in your opinion about Jeanne and Tere right now.
shos, what's making it so shocking for you?

Looking forward to hear from everyone, and Brantz and Jeanne in particular.

[Wanderer-nl]

VOTE: Jeanne

[Wanderer-nl]

But you didn't avoid this game. You keep posting, even after asking to be replaced.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm also not satisfied with Brantz' activity but chances are high he's the 3rd party scum so we'll get to him after we've gotten rid of the mafia.
Mcmenno already voted Jeanne and also why do you care? He's 3rd party and doesn't share our wincon. I'm just glad he's voting with us instead of against us right now.
You do realize dayphases are now just one week right? We're already almost halfway through this Day.

[Wanderer-nl]

What exactly about Jeanne is holding you back to lynching her? So far everything has pointed to her being scum and she has done absolutely nothing to prove otherwise.

[Wanderer-nl]

Lynching the 3rd party now will bring us much cloaer to lylo tha a mislynch. Also, Jeanne is not a misslynch.

[Wanderer-nl]

It is to me. I know I am town which is why I keep saying that. My play is governed by advice listed on several wiki articles linked to this site, tyvm.

Either fucking die already or get replaced. Saying you are town DOES NOT CONSTITUE AS A DEFENSE AROUND HERE/

[Wanderer-nl]

There are 8 people left and I'm sure enough Jeanne is scum. Again, shos, what are your thoughts? Who are you scumreading and who is town according to you?

Players left:
Tere, Bella, shos, Drixx, Brantz, Jeanne, mcmenno, Wanderer. That counts to 8 in my language..

[Wanderer-nl]

Hey Drixx, hope you're doing ok.
Could you answer the questions from my 1616?

[Wanderer-nl]

No it doesn't. Very early in the game ika made it clear that such a scenario isn't lylo. Mafia and 3rd party scum can potentially still target each other, removing not one but 2 scum from the game. I'd rather leave mcmenno for lynching during lylo. His lynch today won't give us any information because every faction needs him gone. I'd rather lynch mafia today and Jeanne is a very good candidate. Also, in a rolemadness game like this there are much better claims for mafia to make than survivor, so I really don't see mcmenno being mafia. If he is, we'll get him in lylo anyway. It's not hard.

There are 2 mafia left, you say mcmenno is one, who would be his buddy then?

[Wanderer-nl]

I have 1 completed game and 1 ongoing game that both contained Jeanne. This is not a PL, this is legitimate scum. The proof is here, reposted for your convenience by Tere. That last quote highly suggests Jeanne knows she can't post after asking for replacement, yet she did.

[Wanderer-nl]

Wtf did I just read?

Jeanne, can you please join a couple more newbie games and make an effort to learn how the game is played here? If you're really town, you should have been scumhunting since day 1. But you've been lurking and now you're OMGUS'ing and sheeping your strongest townread like you said you'd do as scum. Also, you can unvote all you want but the hammer was still placed and you're still dead.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm sorry but you got a lie detector which you first couldn't use because you weren't able to read the instructions and now it wil not give you results until night? Sorry but I'm a little sceptical about that.

@mod

and everyone: I'm V/LA due to busy weekend.

[Wanderer-nl]

Damn I wish I had more time this weekend. Will post thoughts tonight, gotta run.

[Wanderer-nl]

I've reread the happenings day 1 and I have good reason to believe shos is Bella's buddy.

VOTE: shos

[Wanderer-nl]

Mcmenno is a silly lynch. We are 6 left and we need 4 votes to lynch. Scum can't get majority even if they get mcmenno to vote with him. So we're lynching actual scum today. You.

[Wanderer-nl]

Well I'm just not convinced Mcmenno is scum. I actually think it's more beneficial for scum to get Mcmenno lynched than trying to force a no-lynch. Also, Mcmenno's willingness to risk your gladiate looks pretty pro-town to me.

[Wanderer-nl]

Actually, I need to do a rethink on the gladiate-thing..

[Wanderer-nl]

Proddodging until players start showing up again.

[Wanderer-nl]

Then explain to me why Mcmenno is scum, and not just a survivor. Because I'm not seeing it. As far as I've seen he's been playing for town and his own wincon, and has no intention of helping scum with their wincon. This is a rolemadness game, why would scum even claim an anti-town faction out of all the possibilities?

[Wanderer-nl]

That's IoA. Again; why is Mcmenno scum this game?

[Wanderer-nl]

I know I wouldn't trust scum to let me live to win with them.

[Wanderer-nl]

Mcmenno may have lied about the wincon-change to save his own ass but he still can be restless spirit. And if he is, lynching him is useless.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm not stalling, I'm waiting for madcitrus to share his thoughts.

[Wanderer-nl]

Stalling because we need MC's vote and Wanderer's vote, and wanderer is stalling and MC isn't here.

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh I have a guilty alright.
Yes Drixx, that's the flavour msg you get when I track you and you visited 2 people last night apparently. I guess before you visited Tere you swung by my place to drop of a package. Did you think that would make me townread you?

VOTE: Drixx

[Wanderer-nl]

Yeah I'm a tracker vigilante doctor, which means that when I track I also shoot and heal my target, and this doesn't interfere with any other nightactions my target can make.

Why did you leave out the healing part anyway?

[Wanderer-nl]

Heated response to 1878 where you focused on the shooting-part. Kill me. Oh wait, you're afraid I won't die again.

[Wanderer-nl]

I already have a guilty on you. Why should I trust the lie detector will tell me the truth about you? And you'll just call me a liar again when I get another guilty result.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm town. I'm a tracker and I tracked Drixx last night. I know exactly how my role works. I'm a plain tracker, nothing more nothing less, I just have a weird flavour when I track.
I asked the mod if hypothetically it was possible for 1 scum to perform both the factional kill and their own role, and mod confirmed that's possible.

[Wanderer-nl]

Can someone hammer please? I'm getting at that point where summer starts and I'm ok with any lynch available just to end this so I can go swim and lie in the sun.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm not lying.
I just want this game to end so I can enjoy summer!

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh! Did I mean lay maybe? Anyway; sunbathe!

[Wanderer-nl]

Yeah how did I even expect to get scum lynched in a 1-1-1-1 situation. Why didn't the game end already?

[Wanderer-nl]

unvote

[Wanderer-nl]

VOTE: Drixx

[Wanderer-nl]

VOTE: Drixx

[Wanderer-nl]

Thanks for moderating! And for putting up with all my (our) questions!

GG all. I was really worried when Tere joined the game, and I was so paranoid over her townreading me and Bella that I actually thought she was faking it. I think everyone maybe relied too much on the roles and not enough on actual scumhunting? I never felt under pressure, I was just afraid that at some point Tere would figure it all out.

[Wanderer-nl]

I was BP so I wasn't afraid of you ^^

[Wanderer-nl]

But anyway, thanks a lot grabbing the win with me/us

[Wanderer-nl]

@Drixx: yeah I don't know what I was thinking myself. I thought there was no way for me to win anymore, and I never really had a longterm plan.
I have mixed feelings about winning because I don't feel like I've reached our wincon, and ofc without madcitrus it wouldn't have happened.

[Wanderer-nl]

Because there was still a chance you had your vest, and I was BP and way earlier mod told me that works during the day as well (I'm glad it wasn't needed though) so the vests would maybe as well.