Nightingale's Tale - [Game Over]

[borkjerfkin]

good to be back!

VOTE: Nacho

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Mac

Random?
Reaction to Kagami's vote?
Reaction to Mac's vote?

[borkjerfkin]

You're a Marquis alt?

[borkjerfkin]

Reaction to them as players.

I don't understand what this means

[borkjerfkin]

You motherfuckers can kill me whenevs

[borkjerfkin]

Oh also I'm gonna outright say this.
this is yet another time I didn't get myself a neighbor in fg game.

Trade ya

[borkjerfkin]

You gotta town man

But have a

o/

For the enthusiasm

[borkjerfkin]

So believable so adorable

Who's this to?

[borkjerfkin]

We are going to have so much

fun

!

You fucking read my mind

[borkjerfkin]

Its a running joke from elsewhere move along.

Also how is it "forced?" Its either demonstrably true or it isn't (hint: it's this one)

[borkjerfkin]

We are going to have so much

fun

!

You fucking read my mind

We should townbloc this game. I'm good with you right now.

Also, FakeGod just slipped in a PM that our hood is 3 town 2 scum. lmao

I wanna come back to this but I gotta eat.

[borkjerfkin]

Its a running joke from elsewhere move along.

Also how is it "forced?" Its either demonstrably true or it isn't (hint: it's this one)

the second question is a bit weird if you don't see how a possible scum entrance can look forced?

You're asserting it's a potential scum entrance because it "looks forced"; I'm merely asking for you to quantify what that means in this particular instance (aka what looks "forced" about it)

[borkjerfkin]

Also, FakeGod just slipped in a PM that our hood is 3 town 2 scum. lmao

Just so we're super clear, are you kidding here? Because that would pretty egregiously change the way I approach the game if you're not.

[borkjerfkin]

Well since you denied it

His claim was obv fake because you said you hated your neighbor. So with that in mind, his random "hi I'm mason with bork" looks forced joke to me. But then, forced joke is not alignment indicative.

I mean for realsies what did you think was going on here if not him joking or specifically testing my / others' reactions (i.e the claim not being in earnest, with the caveat that I am not saying it would necessarily have been an effective reaction test)

[borkjerfkin]

Also, FakeGod just slipped in a PM that our hood is 3 town 2 scum. lmao

Just so we're super clear, are you kidding here? Because that would pretty egregiously change the way I approach the game if you're not.

Probably true, because FakeGod just slipped in a PM that CHOSQUACK is one of those SCUMBIRDS.

I am having purified mafia flashbacks, lol.

[borkjerfkin]

I found it awkward/forced.
I think it's not alignment-indicative.

These two are (somewhat) naturally contradictory, depending on what you mean by "awkward/forced".
I think you've sufficiently clarified, yeah.

[borkjerfkin]

Do you remember that one game where everyone was on zmon because his joke looked very awkward and forced? (zmon was town)

Was he in IN? I only remember him being in xenogears

[borkjerfkin]

Honestly don't bother unless you're making a pertinent point with it; I get your gist.

p-edit: K.

[borkjerfkin]

This is a bit of a playstyle departure I'm seeing from Brian; it doesn't really read like what little I remember from him in X-men (town) which I'd describe as aggressively analytical but it

definitely

doesn't read like what I felt was super obvscum in Viscon Crossroads, where he pretty much asked open ended questions / commented on various points without really doing anything the whole game. I'm inclined to slightly townread him for his demeanor so far.

But more important; I'm also inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt until later in the game based on claim anyway. I'd probably be feeling this even if I was scumleaned on him.

[borkjerfkin]

I think he's scum because of the tunnelvision on gif which lacked a real sense of reasoning, I haven't played with gif in a long time but iirc quick reads is kinda how he plays? he has paid very little attention to anyone in the game not named gif and I think his gaiden hop is poor.

also the claiming already is a bit stupid and I don't believe it

I actually sympathize with where you're coming from here, but I just don't think what's going on here is what you think is going on here (I don't want to really delve deep into that because it is utter conjecture on my part, but I don't really think Brian is quite playing the straight-man here)

[borkjerfkin]

Other thoughts right now,
Liking how bork is playing
He looks kinda town

I am feeling super good about you right now as well due to commensurate opinions about things in your haiku post.
I've also never seen you open like that as scum (whereas Tales of You, well, yeah)

And considering all my experience with you is either
1) us opposite alignments
or
2) X-men [which I think we'd both agree was not a bonding experience for either of us]

I'm pretty excited about that

[borkjerfkin]

We should townbloc this game. I'm good with you right now.

I'm close with you. Not really seeing anything alarming, at least.
Talk to me about your reads.

[borkjerfkin]

I do kind of think that something is weird in the notscience, farside, Mac area.

I am most ok of the three with where Mac has gone since his opening, and I'm seriously not trying to beat a dead horse but I don't really see how notscience claiming masons with me is any more weird as a followup to a naked vote than it would be as a first post, especially considering it wasn't a response to any pressure put on him or anything like that.
It's making me slightly think you're backpedaling in an attempt to explain a scumlean on ns for it away as a mistake.
I can kinda see Mac's trajectory on Brian and that tempers the read.

notscience himself has done literally nothing of substance in 14 posts and I don't like that at all.

I agree with zmuffin's being unimpressed with farside's #168; also weird verbiage regarding notscience who she has dismissed as a troll -- I see not trolling but instead pretty much just languishing. I think the best way to put it is that farside's "I think ns is trolling" feels dismissive [guess we can ignore him] rather than alarmist [why is ns trolling?] or corrective [hey ns: stop trolling] and I don't think it should. It's more minor a point on e-paper than it sounded in my head.

I feel like any attempt for me to make positive/negative connections between the three is going to be super fucking error prone at this point in the game.

VOTE: farside

[borkjerfkin]

When people include joke-posts in the middle of a post, it's typically because they're going through the thread and addressing posts as they read them.

195 is not such a post.

I think it actually is, in fact, such a post. posts that she responds to are in chronological order.

Let's pretend that isn't true though: what exactly are you trying to say here?

[borkjerfkin]

And I said the claim was stupid (not alignment indicative, this goes for everyone)

Ok

and that I didn't believe it which is more in line with alignment.

Why do you not believe this claim in particular?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not feeling super good about Nacho from this page

1) this is super guttish, but I expected at least a passing shout-out/welcome/acknowledgement to me at game start since we just met up a few weeks ago I RVSed him and I've had substantial game presence and I'm excited to be playing with him and I feel he should reciprocate that.

2) I feel like, even with my limited knowledge of Katsuki, I could find examples of him just going totally off the reservation as town on D1. I'm not saying that makes him town, but I feel like that's pretty null and especially null for him. My first reaction if I wanted to probe Katsuki would be more of a "the hell you on about with SCUMBIRDS?" (in fact, Katsuki, consider that question asked) rather than to say his push (if you can even really call it that) is scummy

[borkjerfkin]

I agree, nacho's posts on this page are scummy as fuck

I'm going to assume this is a jibe at the page turning over rather than an actual agreement and ask why you're not even remotely engaging?

Pedit ok

[borkjerfkin]

Who should I vote?

I need to learn to play mafia again.

Can you read the thread? Fresh perspective right now would be pretty rad.

[borkjerfkin]

The main reason I'm pushing him is because of how I expect his role would fit in on a scumteam and that role's interaction with Cho's (who I very strongly believe is telling the truth and is town). I agree that Katsuki sometimes says crazy shit as town, and, as a result, gets away with making pushes as scum that are very obviously scum-motivated. I see scum-motivation behind his push. I see why he would have the role he does as scum. He is my strongest scumread as a result.

Not digging it

VOTE: Nacho

You're basically saying that you're willing to make the most broad of assumptions to fit this read:

1) Cho being totally on the level with a day 1 unsolicited claim (motivation to claim here is ???)
2) Same for Katsuki for the counterclaim
3) Katsuki having/being considerably more likely to be scum if Cho is town with aforementioned role
4) Knowing nothing/very little about what roles are in the game that could temper things in one direction or another
5) Somewhat related -- there are a lot of other doublevoter claims going around. I count 4. That's probably pretty damn important and should make you think twice about whether or not what has been presented is what is indeed going on here.

Also you think Katsuki's plan as scum when he finds an imminent threat in a town PR is to loltunnel him with essentially all bark and no bite and hope town just piles on?
I don't.

p-edit: k

[borkjerfkin]

doduo or whatever?

[borkjerfkin]

I think you're moderately town; my opinion's not really changed since 193

[borkjerfkin]

Although I'd like to know: how do

you

feel about Katsuki's claim?

p-edit: I have reason to believe there is a shred of truth to it, but possibly only a shred?
I'm not meaning to be cryptic, but I think I know why you're asking me specifically.

[borkjerfkin]

Mostly I'm frustrated because instead of critically thinking about how I've been approaching the game so far you're pushing me for an imperfect push in a stage of the game where no one has actually formed anything even remotely solid

and you're pushing me despite the signals that say DO NOT PUSH which already are much much louder than they should be

I will circle back to this when not on mobile. Ok.

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

The assumptions I'm making is that Cho is telling the truth and Katsuki's role as scum makes sense while both roles existing as town does not.

I guess I take umbrage at basing your biggest push on this and very little to do with anything Katsuki's really done (other than what I consider fluffposting). I don't know what claims are true and what ones aren't (as I said, I

partially

believe Cho's claim) but I feel that this is an incredibly rigid view of the gamestate given how much hypothetical-town-Nacho should actually know at this point, and this is coming from someone who likes to smell test claims for balance in general.

I'm backing off because you asked me to but it still bothers me after a night to think it over.

Show me what you mean when you say Katsuki's done this before.

[borkjerfkin]

And I think that's a reasonable thing to at least have in the back of your mind: that any given D1 claim that isn't made to save oneself from a lynch probably shouldn't be taken at face value, especially if that claim is positive utility

p-edit: Cho's might be legit, but it might make the setup less elegant if it is and that's my reservation about it.

[borkjerfkin]

Why is [myself,] gif, sakura and grapes people of interest?

Because I find the interaction around my wagon un-townish enough to be suspicious, while also seeing things that don't look scum-scum. Alignments in that group seem sortable.

I like grapes' vote on you the least so far

[borkjerfkin]

I also feel that scum farside

probably

wouldn't have posted 326.

I dunno I somewhat like her reaction to pressure in general this game even if sometimes the arguments get a little messy.

[borkjerfkin]

@Mac: Agree; I'm guessing scum probably hopped on Nacho after my vote between (Katsuki, regular-Muffin, lala)

I have no real way to qualify that statement any further at this point; it's probably something to come back to later.

[borkjerfkin]

but this differs from that in the sense that kat and nacho are fairly in touch with each others play I think.

They're both calling each other scum. Do you think one is correct?

[borkjerfkin]

Grapes is town.

Would like correspondence about this; the catchup post did not have this effect on me.

[borkjerfkin]

This stood out to me because I feel Notty's good at sitting on the sidelines with color commentary as scum which he was more than happy to admit in Survivor Mafia. Are you scumreading Notty? Because your use of the word 'languishing' makes me think you're at least leaning that way, but your earlier sentiments towards his mason claim with you and you not addressing him in any way make me think this might not be the case.

Time moving forward with him not doing anything is increasingly making me uncomfortable with him, yes, especially due to the presence other activity on site.
This was his scumgame in crossroads
This was his scumgame in xenosaga

At the time I admonished GIF/Mac for reacting the way they did to his thread entrance (calling what I felt was a pretty obvious joke 'forced or awkward') [Not that I'm rehashing this, just restating how I felt earlier] I had no problem with ns.

When I commented on farside's interaction with him, my emphasis was that I felt she was dismissing him instead of trying to read him, but I know at some point I made an ancillary comment that I felt he was coasting/not being productive.

At this point in time, well,
VOTE: notscience

[borkjerfkin]

I've incidentally been reading laladucks' ISO from it (also trying to find a scumgame of hers to no avail) and am kinda blown away at how different it is.

Lots of potential reasons for that but I don't have any scumreads I feel that great about on active people right now and am looking to sparser posters atm.

I'm also due for a reread.

[borkjerfkin]

Because I find the interaction around my wagon un-townish enough to be suspicious, while also seeing things that don't look scum-scum

i didn't mind grapes's wall of stuff so much - do you have issue/s with it apart from the you read?
...

I think the content overall is fine, but I don't think the conclusion matches the content.

Yes.

The two things I most didn't like about grapes' intro post were the Kagami push
a) seems to ignore the fact that Kagami really isn't pushing a case on farside, she's interacting with farside. You can argue that she's maybe making unnecessary noise (I even asked her to get to the point at one point) but I don't see why he'd be so quick to attribute scum motivation to what Kagami is doing in said context.

b) I feel that the [can't wait to see what you think when I place a vote] is pretty obviously construed as [GIF, you are being hyperbolic about or misreading my intent here] and instead grapes is [possibly willfully] interpreting that Kagami is literally afraid to place a vote on a wagon because she's scum.

and the zmuffinman haiku reaction
a) There is a lot of convoluted denouncing of the methods used and hedge here just to arrive essentially at the exact same conclusion that zmuffin did and read zmuffin as town. It reads a bit as if he decided what conclusion he wanted to come to about zmuffin independently of deciding to remark on that post at all.

Still think BS is town, btw, even as a not-D5-IC

Yes.

[borkjerfkin]

The premise of all his assumptions and subsequent conclusion of me being scum were construed piles of shit, and something that is more typical of NACHOSCUM. I've been pushed by both nachoTOWN and nachoSCUM before as town and I know the differences by now.

how does nacho-town interpret your actions that's different to how he's doing it here?

i don't really see what your big issue with 270 is and i don't really see how that made you think nacho-scum

My big issue with 270 is that this is how Nacho plays as scum, not as town.

I am profoundly interested in the back and forth between you and Nacho so I'll ask you exactly what I asked him: please explain exactly what you mean here.

[borkjerfkin]

Nacho is not giving me town vibes even remotely.

Scum having an off game?

Who else do you think is scum?

[borkjerfkin]

Hi

[borkjerfkin]

t was a tepid read, I'll give you that. That's not hedging, though. Not sure how saying zmuff is leaning town can be interpreted any other way than exactly that.

Hedge was probably the wrong word.

I just figured if you thought zmuffin was town and his reads were good you'd not have felt the need to go on about how you don't like how he got there.

When you say I'm reaching, what do you mean?

[borkjerfkin]

Which is substantiated further by [Kagami's] entire list of 'people she's interested in' (scumreads im assuming) only consisting of those who have suspicion of her.

335 makes it fairly clear that she is not equating her scumreads to the people all voting for her.

[borkjerfkin]

Also why is no one talking about notscience

[borkjerfkin]

Also somehow I like lala's 413

[borkjerfkin]

who do you want me to vote?

Sometimes I really like playing with you and sometimes I don't.

Should be p obvious what he wants from you.

[borkjerfkin]

whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

Actually if this is an onomatopoeia of me being blown away instead of what I thought it was then nvm its null

[borkjerfkin]

also, what was the whole "masons with bork" thing about in the beginning of the game? because i've been assuming it was a noddy-bork-cho-someone-someone hood and that had something to do with pre-game neighbourhood stuff (though now that i'm thinking about it, that's probably impossible anyway given i just remembered fakegod doesn't open neighbourhoods pregame so whatever)

Nah, it's a joke from a chatmafia game from forever ago where we were masons. I had hoped it was a vehicle for him to engage me early game. And then he didn't.

(ns isn't in my hood, and you're correct in that it wasn't open pregame anyway)

[borkjerfkin]

You did not want me posting here yesterday.

Show me where I even intimated such a thing.

[borkjerfkin]

I like

Cho, zMuffin, Brian

warming up to (this is probably in order of most to least likely to jump up a tier):

You (aka Mac) (you threw me off a little early game but it was a minor thing)
farside (I think I just totally fucked that read up early on she's been pretty solid)
Sakura (gut, maybe claim, nothing that tangible)
Kagami (play is a little mechanical and she's taking a while to make her trajectory all that clear but overall points are pretty salient)

Everyone else is in a holding pattern until I know more (Nacho in specific here) or just hasn't impressed me

You?

[borkjerfkin]

Not digging zmuffin or cho?

[borkjerfkin]

And yeah gif is a curious case for me. He isn't scummy but I'd maybe expect him to have a bigger presence as town.

[borkjerfkin]

P-Edit: hi bork

Hi! What're your reads up to now

[borkjerfkin]

I'm very wary of both. not scumreading them, but I don't trust my ability to read either of them very well

fair enough

Your better off not putting me in a voting block. I tend to get stubborn unless someone makes a really compelling case.

Right now I'm just thinking.

Not what we mean by bloc here; he was just asking me who I thought was town. I'm not terribly interested in voting blocs in general as it gives scum who were improperly admitted to them an excuse to not be accountable for votes later

[borkjerfkin]

Everyone knows the D1 lynch usually ends up not being the scummiest player but the least charismatic.

Spoiler:

forgot to fucking lol at this earlier

[borkjerfkin]

nati, and ducks.

nati, huh?
also didn't you just vote ducks?

[borkjerfkin]

Doesn't Cho's claim feel out of place?

Yeah it feels a little out of place.

But Cho's own posting indicates he wasn't being entirely straight about it.

I'm also extrapolating a little.

[borkjerfkin]

Also, I'm a Day 5 Quintuplevoter.

That's as high as it goes.

gif I'm guessing you're referring to the underlined

[borkjerfkin]

Either way I don't think there is anything inherently correlated between doublevoters and alignment, especially not in a game where there are so many.

p-edit: @Sakura: I agree: Nobody should be cleared from the

contents

of a claim on D1 (special exceptions obviously apply).

[borkjerfkin]

@Sakura: I was going to ask specifically you and Nati how you felt about Cho's claim earlier and never got around to it. I think a hypothesis I had earlier might not be in play based on what you've said about yourself.

Ya know?

[borkjerfkin]

She was obviously fake claiming, and going about it to reaction test people. GIF townreading her entirely out of the claim is kinda BS.

I mean what he claimed is something that can be proven by d2 so I didn't bother

How does the claim being true make Cho town?

[borkjerfkin]

Actually nevermind you explained that.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah yeah I got it

[borkjerfkin]

V/LA through tues.

Will have mobile. Aware of encroaching deadline. Will be around sporadically.

[borkjerfkin]

The part that particularly doesn't make sense to me is that you have an issue with my biggest push having a lot to do with a prediction on how the setup is set up as opposed to play when we are very earlygame and no one has really done anything particularly alignment-indicative (at least during the point where I'm writing thing). I don't understand why you think I have a rigid view of the gamestate based on a push that I'm making based on current beliefs (which, contrary to popular belief, are not completely set in stone, they are just what I believe currently). It's not like I believe absolutely nothing else has a reasonable chance of being true. I don't understand why scum!me would have less information than I currently have, that actually doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying that scum you would have less info. I didnt mention scum you at all. I'm saying town you wouldn't have a clear enough picture to make a push on setup spec right now. Scum you would obviously be in a different situation.

And in a game with a ton of people you've played with before, you're just picking a really weird and mechanics oriented push. It lacks any confirmed basis in reality and I think its obvious that I think its weird, and instead of really engaging with me you're taking potshots at me and trying to drag me down into semantics when it should be really fucking obvious to you that I'm town.

I still really want to engage. I've posted a lot of stuff about people we both know. What do you think? Throw me a bone.

[borkjerfkin]

Also "no one has done anything alignment indicative" is like 100% not a thing I think you would say in any game ever

[borkjerfkin]

I have no idea how I'm supposed to fix it.

I guess just talking to me about other stuff would be good

Also I'm kinda drunk

[borkjerfkin]

And honestly after everything I think you probably shouldn't be lynched today

[borkjerfkin]

When's the part where you get into specifics instead of just vaguely but confidently attacking my posts?

This is precisely what I don't like about katsuki and half the other people in the game.

Like I'm sorry I don't get the gist of what you say after you think you've explained it adequately. Thats part of the communication barrier. It makes me scumread people who refuse to make even the slightest concession to clarify themselves. But they aren't always scum.

[borkjerfkin]

What did you think it was originally?

"You missed something that explains what I'm doing"

[borkjerfkin]

page 35 is a fucking wasteland and there better be scum there.

No one is really attempting to comunicate very well.

Nacho seems rigid as fuck (even with the lala vote, especially to abandon notscience right when sakura hops on him) and I can't shake that feeling with any post he has made. This read is fucking frustrating me.

Lala I sure as fuck wish I could read you. I cant.

Notscience is effete in every way.

I am actually super ok with normal muffin and I feel like anyone who is pushing him is doing so on the basis of that he wont give certain people the time of day.

[borkjerfkin]

Fucking why

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really know where to go with that

[borkjerfkin]

I don't feel like its particularly enjoyable no matter what you are.

I gotta bail I'm being summoned but I really can't feel you.

[borkjerfkin]

I will do my damndest to be around tonight. Still doing family stuff.

[borkjerfkin]

Finally have a lick of free time but it's late and I'm tired. I've pretty much not read anything since Friday. I'll attempt a catchup here since this is pretty much all I have until deadline (gonna be on the road all day tomorrow)

What do I need to look at

[borkjerfkin]

heh.

[borkjerfkin]

Ok, completely missed that.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nati

willing to consolidate on non-nacho, non-zmuff

I read your previous post just now that said you think ns looks more town now but I feel like you should need something really concrete to essentially consciously derail the leading wagon right now, especially if you claim to be looking for compromises.

I haven't reread ns yet -- what looks town to you?

[borkjerfkin]

looking at oversoul/gif and tth/cho now too for obvious reasons. Cho seemed pretty town to me.

[borkjerfkin]

Not exactly mutually exclusive.

Who do you think on your wagon is scum right now?

I'm still rereading leading wagons and I don't really have a good handle on where I think I should be.
Which probably means I'm not gonna be sleeping for a while.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah. I don't feel like the initial reasons for my vote are compelling anymore.
UNVOTE:

I'm trying to follow your trajectory on Cho in a reread because one of the things you mentioned was his defense of lala

[borkjerfkin]

you're talking shit like 1010 and the chainsaws he made when voting lala's detractors.

I definitely don't like the burden of proficiency argument at all there, and especially on a character like lalala who is likely to be townread (whether correct or otherwise) by her tone / feel rather than her content and that is not something that I think someone should "know better about".

I don't get the replace out and I am hesitant to scumread people who make the conscious decision to "take their ball and go home" as I like to say, as it provides no real benefit to them personally in game and town are more likely to get legitimately riled up enough to quit than scum are.

Then again I am talking about the person who self hammered as the last scum on his faction in X-Men so who the fuck knows

[borkjerfkin]

Yes the Nati hype

Talk to me about the nati hype

[borkjerfkin]

I don't have any way to really quantify it, so I'm trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) not to factor it in. Cho flipped around on Sakura so fast right before replace-out that I have no idea what his mindset at the time actually was.

I've seen some suspicion levied at zmuffin lately even if he's not getting lynched today, and when he's scum his posts make my gut curdle a little even if I can't usually put my finger on why. I am emphatically NOT getting that feeling this game.

elevate farside I am taking that townread to the bank.
Still think sakura was more likely town than not.

Oversoul I don't really know yet. I would like to know yet.

[borkjerfkin]

Yes the Nati hype

Like drive-by shit like this does nothing but make me squirm a little. Especially when you show up just long enough to make that post and bail and not engage. You obviously want a vote from me since you reacted to my unvote.

This just makes it look like you want me to talk about Nati without you having to talk about Nati too.

[borkjerfkin]

Generally not something I care about on D1 but I get it

[borkjerfkin]

I have absolutely zero way to weight that proposition other than it's generally rare you get 2 huge wagons on scum on D1 (not that I haven't seen it, but yeah)

but really I care we hit a scumbutt infinitely more than I care about what role that scumbutt turns out to be

[borkjerfkin]

I said the Nati hype because of the second vote on Nati, not your unvote.

Oh, right.

I find you town but you had let your vote stagnate on notscience.

Kinda comes with the territory of being out of commission for the weekend.
Anyway I'm considering my options and I actually think Nati might be where I want to go just cause of 0 compelling reasons to think she's town.
And honestly I'm going in circles with my rereads. I don't know that I have a good read on Oversoul even after reading the slot; I can see a deadline vote on lala despite having townread the slot because deadline.

VOTE: Nati

I feel like I'm gonna wake up and have a different opinion. I just don't have enough time.

[borkjerfkin]

youre convincing me to vote ovrsoul

without even voting him

Wasn't really my intent here

[borkjerfkin]

This game