Nightingale's Tale - [Game Over]

[Kagami]

And I completely believe Cho's.

[borkjerfkin]

And I think that's a reasonable thing to at least have in the back of your mind: that any given D1 claim that isn't made to save oneself from a lynch probably shouldn't be taken at face value, especially if that claim is positive utility

p-edit: Cho's might be legit, but it might make the setup less elegant if it is and that's my reservation about it.

[farside22]

MuffinZ A lot of this is vague
What don't you like?
Why is it bad?

if you mean what i didn't like about your entrance, it's mostly the things you chose to comment on. for example, one thing that felt awkward about it was why you chose that specific post to quote - you quoted someone giving a bunch of reads and only commented on one. did you agree with the rest of the reads, or why did you specifically comment on the mac read? why didn't you address any mac posts directly? why did you vote sakura?

if you mean what i didn't like about your reasoning for voting mac, it's mostly the lack of motivation analysis. the things you picked at aren't really scummy, even taking into account it's early times (aaand that second point doesn't even accurately describe the post you quoted soooo). like, why can't town scoff at a wagon? why is "defensiveness" scummy? how exactly do you address accusations without being defensive? why is calling something forced scummy?

If I didn't agree with the rest of the reads I would have said as much. As it was mac was the only one I disagreed with.
I already explained my sukura issue. I'm not sure what else think is going to be said on this.
As for only commenting to gif, he was addressing me and the rest of what I read was really nothing special in my eyes.

As for your oppinion about what is scummy and what isn't.
I see typically a lot of town react to votes vs scum that non react or scoff at things.
As for defensiveness I just thought the reaction was weirdish coming from what sukura said, which read as tongue and cheek comment to me.
There was nothing forced in my view about NS comment. That was why I asked what made it read forced. I kept seeing Mac avoid responding the question, which made me think he was faking a read.

Right now I'm a bit bugged that muffin defends Brian. I do have a peeve with people defend others because I typically see scum hide behind those that defend them.

why does it bug you? i'm defending him insofar as i think he's more likely town than scum and i'm saying so, but i don't particularly think i'm hindering any conversations taking place or preventing people forming a read there.

Are you reading my post at all?
I said why it bugs me and yet your asking me why it bugs me.
Also in my view when people step in with a player being accused you don't think that BK will say anything if he is scum having someone who will continue to step in for him over and over?
Just asking.

While I'm asking questions: What do you think of Kag being weirded out that I didn't have my post in order but said nothing about your long read that had a post out of order?

[Kagami]

...
While I'm asking questions: What do you think of Kag being weirded out that I didn't have my post in order but said nothing about your long read that had a post out of order?

Is there more that's suspicious about me worth asking?

[Sakura Hana]

Why would scum-brian claim D5 IC under very little pressure?

Dunno, but he clearly didn't read the OP, otherwise he'd have gone for a more credible fake claim.

[farside22]

...
While I'm asking questions: What do you think of Kag being weirded out that I didn't have my post in order but said nothing about your long read that had a post out of order?

Is there more that's suspicious about me worth asking?

Why does it bother you that I asked?
You made a point about my long post saying it was off, ectra and I wondered why muffin was exept if it's something that really bothers you as much as you claimed.

[grapes]

Also, I'm a Day 5 Quintuplevoter. That's as high as it goes.

Whether or not this is true, it contains information best kept to yourself.

Kagami, are you town? Are we town?

I think we're town.

I thought this interaction looked awkward at first but it's not that bad for page 2 I guess. But I don't really get the town read or why you felt the need to include yourself in the read.

Also for srs, nachos town bork is town cho is town Mac is town muffin isn't.

VOTE: muffin
(Not the z guy btw.)

I sorta wanna call this town because for their first content post it's not that bad. I don't really agree with a lot of the reads and there's no reasoning there. Feels off the cuff to me though and it sorta started to steer us out of rvs in a way that didn't feel awkward.

claim masons with bork

i think this feels forced

I didn't really like this post. The wording is weird. Specifically the 'i think.' Like it's a strange qualifier to place in front of a feeling. Normally you feel something or you don't, there's no thinking about it.

I mean normally stuff like this doesn't ping me at all but I think it's more bad because it's already a pretty safe thing to call someone out for.

That's a lame reason to scumread anyone for.

It's early and I like Bork so for.
I mean all you got is this:

So believable so adorable

Who's this to?

notsci!

Also for srs, nachos town bork is town cho is town Mac is town muffin isn't.

VOTE: muffin
(Not the z guy btw.)

Which sound no better then my view of sukura

I don't like the immediate depreciation of her reads here. Yes it was early on which should go without saying but coupled with the comparing of her assessment to guyinfreezers makes this read like a whole lot of hedge.

Also then do you scumread mac?
@farside

Sort of

And then even more hedge.

FUCKING SCUMBIRDS

VOTE CHOSQUACK

jfc

Huh? the reason was explained in my next post @faraday i like wagoning ppl in RVS. And yeah naked votes may be more common from me in my new "why the fuck do i even bother explaining crap" playstyle.

So can anyone confirm that this is a sitewide playstyle change or is this stuff just going on here?

I mean this is coming from somebody who doesn't have a concrete playstyle to speak of - to the point of almost having multiple personalities and shit and cringes at the term - so far it doesn't really feel put on as an attempt for sakura to hide as scum. Like it feels natural and kinda playful I guess. But if it's only going in this game then I might be a bit worried.

btw

VOTE: gaiden

So notscience hasn't really impressed me at all and this is a pretty shit vote imo. Basically null leaning scum.

Coolio Julio

VOTE: Gaiden

This is strangely aggressive for laladucks.

Also a bit of an overreaction considering gaiden being reluctant to vote could be for about 100 other reasons, the least likely him lying about his role as scum right?

But why are you revealing it Cho, if it's true? Will scum not kill you before D5 now?

Interesting that lala didn't extend the same question to brian skies. They both claimed at around the same time. With about the same amount of pressure, very little.

snip

While the haikus were sweet I didn't get a massive boner for this post like a lot of people seemed to. A lot of it is based on ~feels~ of forced/fake awkwardness which is an interesting way to scumhunt and probably more effective day 1 with the obvious lack of content to analyze but

it is

doomed to fail considering some people are just...awkward by nature and it's a really easy thing to fake in order to base reads on. It didn't really feel faked, though. Just because where the awkwardness was called out I could usually feel it as well upon my own evaluation.

All in all it was a pretty fair assessment for that stage in the day and a good amount of the reads are mutual. Leaning town here.

I think he's scum because of the tunnelvision on gif which lacked a real sense of reasoning, I haven't played with gif in a long time but iirc quick reads is kinda how he plays? he has paid very little attention to anyone in the game not named gif and I think his gaiden hop is poor.

also the claiming already is a bit stupid and I don't believe it

This is pretty weak. I also sense some projecting because mac here seems to be tunneling on brian himself from what I've seen. Being his lone scum read and all.

Also whether you believe him or not there's no point to push it today. We either get a confirmtown day 5 or caught scum so it's a bit of a stubborn push imo.

I do kind of think that something is weird in the notscience, farside, Mac area.

I am most ok of the three with where Mac has gone since his opening, and I'm seriously not trying to beat a dead horse but I don't really see how notscience claiming masons with me is any more weird as a followup to a naked vote than it would be as a first post, especially considering it wasn't a response to any pressure put on him or anything like that.
It's making me slightly think you're backpedaling in an attempt to explain a scumlean on ns for it away as a mistake.
I can kinda see Mac's trajectory on Brian and that tempers the read.

notscience himself has done literally nothing of substance in 14 posts and I don't like that at all.

I agree with zmuffin's being unimpressed with farside's #168; also weird verbiage regarding notscience who she has dismissed as a troll -- I see not trolling but instead pretty much just languishing. I think the best way to put it is that farside's "I think ns is trolling" feels dismissive [guess we can ignore him] rather than alarmist [why is ns trolling?] or corrective [hey ns: stop trolling] and I don't think it should. It's more minor a point on e-paper than it sounded in my head.

I feel like any attempt for me to make positive/negative connections between the three is going to be super fucking error prone at this point in the game.

VOTE: farside

I liked this post. The vote is good and him expounding on the reason feels less like avoiding get called out for sheeping and more like a genuine thought process. Not sure what to make of the "positive/negative" connections line other than thinking out loud. Which feels even more townie because while associations are really bad to worry about this early it's sorta always in the back of your mind when trying to solve things.

This guy is probably town.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of the kastuki/kagami thing other than that farside-scum implies katsuki-town.

Can confirm farside confuses people's names as scum. But I don't really see how that would imply katsuki town.

When people include joke-posts in the middle of a post, it's typically because they're going through the thread and addressing posts as they read them.

195 is not such a post. It's farside addressing a specific point, and two posts directly related to it.

If this is lashing, and if that was a case, I hate to imagine what I'll be doing when I actually place a vote.

This was a bad post. I don't really think posting etiquette is alignment indicative. Like there's a million different ways to post on a forum and just as many ways to play this game. Calling somebody out for posting something in a weird manner or having the post numbers out of order, anything like that just always rubs me as someone who can't scumhunt for real.

Also, the "when I actually place a vote" line is strange too. Like, what exactly are you waiting for?

I just feel D5 is too late to be modconfirmed, purely because im assuming 13v4, if we mislynch 4 times and lose 4 townies thats 5v4 which is possible for BS to be modconfirmed.

But say we have an extra kill somewhere, like a vig or delayed poisoner ( ) then the d5 role is useless.

it's set up spec reasons and generally im not good at setup so I could be waaay off target here, but thats my thought process

I thought your push was because of tunneling? I mean even that was better than setup spec reasons. (Which aren't even that good)

If we get to day 5 without hitting scum then we probably deserve to lose anyway. lol

But if he's still alive by then and doesn't end up confirming himself in a satisfactory way that doesn't have the possibility of shenanigans at all, then I say yea we should probs lynch the shit outta him.

I think Laladucks ccing gaiden means lala town

All of these out of the blue town reads on laladucks feel weird.

Someone should explain it to me a little more in depth.

-

Soooo I've still got a shitton of null reads after that read through which kinda sucks. Well the people I'm completely unsure of aren't too numerous I guess. katsuki, natisha and muffin. But there's a lot of nullish reads either way like notscience, farside and mac are going nullish in the scum direction and like gaiden, nacho, sakura and cho in the town direction. So I guess the sorting is still in the development process.

VOTE: kagami

[Kagami]

I'm asking you to ask more, is that something that reflects my being bothered by your initial question?

Is there more that's suspicious about me worth asking?

[farside22]

Grapes is town.
Just an FYI I get names mixed up generally.
Also when I mixed you and glass last game neither was scum but I did once butcher my scum buddies name on purpose just because I thought people wouldn't associate us together.

Fun and good times.

[Kagami]

...

I'm not entirely sure what to make of the kastuki/kagami thing other than that farside-scum implies katsuki-town.

Can confirm farside confuses people's names as scum. But I don't really see how that would imply katsuki town.
...

Farside wouldn't confuse a scumbuddy with me.

[farside22]

I'm asking you to ask more, is that something that reflects my being bothered by your initial question?

Is there more that's suspicious about me worth asking?

I'm sorry I can't here you over your one issue you pointed out and nothing else about me.
Please let me know why my one issue bothers you so?

[farside22]

Kag is going to vote now claiming I'm dodging while I just look at her and go, so what

[Kagami]

...
While I'm asking questions: What do you think of Kag being weirded out that I didn't have my post in order but said nothing about your long read that had a post out of order?

Is there more that's suspicious about me worth asking?

Why does it bother you that I asked?
You made a point about my long post saying it was off, ectra and I wondered why muffin was exept if it's something that really bothers you as much as you claimed.

Between 302 and 305, you've realize that I didn't say anything about your post being out of order.

[farside22]

...
While I'm asking questions: What do you think of Kag being weirded out that I didn't have my post in order but said nothing about your long read that had a post out of order?

Is there more that's suspicious about me worth asking?

Why does it bother you that I asked?
You made a point about my long post saying it was off, ectra and I wondered why muffin was exept if it's something that really bothers you as much as you claimed.

Between 302 and 305, you've realize that I didn't say anything about your post being out of order.

You may not realize that your so called issue with my post was after muffin's post.
One post you liked, one you were like well it doesn't read natural when players bypass things out of order.

One is noted and the other wasn't.
So again
why?

[farside22]

I swear to God if I read one more why didn't you say anything sooner I will start freekin quoting myself

[Kagami]

Nobody said anything about posts being out of order.

[farside22]

When people include joke-posts in the middle of a post, it's typically because they're going through the thread and addressing posts as they read them.

195 is not such a post. It's farside addressing a specific point, and two posts directly related to it.

If this is lashing, and if that was a case, I hate to imagine what I'll be doing when I actually place a vote.

Nobody said anything about posts being out of order.

yup sure you didn't

Oh the issue was I focused on defense then? Or what? Because most of the page I was reading was about me you know.
Or did you miss that in your why did that one quote get missed garbage?

[farside22]

By the way my first line was sarcastic in case you missed it

[Kagami]

Do you think the numbers 1, 3, 4, 9, 100 are out of order?

[farside22]

I what to know kag because you keep dodging what exactly your issue was.
When someone comments about your phrasing you changed it. When I ask you just don't reply to the question.
It's either reading along and natural as a player reads or its I missed one quote along the way with that page that bothered you.
After I explained myself you just got quiet about the subject and when I ask about someone else's post out of order you get all uppity about me bringing it up and it shouldn't be something I have a right to ask.

[farside22]

Do you think the numbers 1, 3, 4, 9, 100 are out of order?

Keep dodging sweetcheeks.

[Kagami]

Well, whatever, I'm going to assume your answer is no, that you meant to say "sequential," and that what you've been trying to say is that you believe I am concerned that you didn't address every single post between muffin's and mac's or something like that.

And that is still not at all what my point was.

[farside22]

And Kag still doesn't explain the point.

Fasinating.

@Sukura: Is this like ABR play or is that just my imagination?

[Kagami]

Alright, I'm going to be very very clear here, which I think I've already done, but somehow that is being lost somewhere.

Here is post 195:

Spoiler: post 195

MuffinZ A lot of this is vague
What don't you like?
Why is it bad?

I can see I'm going nowhere with this.

- if I believed the claim, I wouldn't be voting Brian.
- Yes I implied it wasn't town there. But in the very post before that, I also said;

i was mistaken so we can probably move past this

which you seem to not be doing

I get annoyed with people tell me to drop things after I called them scum.

Just a peeve of mine.

I agree almost entirely with zmuffin, which probably means good things.

More strongly on Cho town, less strongly on nati townish, more up in the air on mac and brian.

I think at least one, but probably exactly one, neighborhood is all town.

Oh look the sheeping is incredible and for no reason from Kats with no vote....yah this is not town kats.

Wow so helpful so town

I sense sarcasm with this one.

@Bork: I tend to note things that either (1) iritate me (2) make as a reminder so I keep an eye on it in the future. Trolling....well it depends on a player but for me it's more of an iritatant because I see town and scum do it and find it unhelpful as town and scummy when I see it. I usually attack it but when town does it too lately I just note it for a future reference.
I'm not sure why you agree with muffinz since all he says is the case is bad without explaining jack shit.

This post contains 5 "things"

1. It questions muffin's read, specifically his scumread on you
2. It addresses Mac's statement in some dialogue where he called your case rubbish and said to drop it
3. It attacks my agreement with muffin
4. It quotes GiF's sarcasm post and says "this must be sarcasm"
5. It addresses bork's agreement with muffin and his vote on you.

All of these things are directly related to you, such your push on mac or pushes on you from muffin, bork and a perceived push from myself. #4 isn't.

Bork says in the post you quoted that it looks like a post by post review of events, and it's not crazy to include a random post. My response was that it isn't really a post by post review, since a lot of posts are skipped in favor of farside-centric ones with the exception of GiF's. I thought that was odd and asked why you included it. That is what happened, are you're free to review my iso if you disagree.

You've also picked up on another thing that happened, which is that GiF interpreted my question as an attack of some sort, and used some pretty attack-y language to describe it. Sakura also apparently found my question distasteful, and now Grapes believes it's poor etiquette and vote-worthy, despite him scumreading you.

Now, what I asked you before was a real question. I've answered yours, so I'd appreciate if you answered mine.

You addressed a specific question at zmuffinman:

...
While I'm asking questions: What do you think of Kag being weirded out that I didn't have my post in order but said nothing about your long read that had a post out of order?

Firstly, you must believe this is something worth asking, and you've asked this as someone who is voting me. If you believe I'm scum, then you're asking muffin about a behavior that you find compellingly scummy. I find it very hard to believe that this is the case, thus I asked if there's anything more you should be asking. The answer I would expect is that you've poured over my iso trying to discern my alignment, and found other things that you believe are suspect which are also worth inquiring into.

That isn't the answer, and instead of something concrete, there's just blustering confusion that I find more than a little annoying. So I ask more directly: Does the question you've asked muffin represent much of the reasoning behind your scumread on me?

p-edit: lulz

[SXTLHGaiden]

Gaiden has slight scumlean on farside and a townlean on Sakura